Banks.

[EBSXR6]

I wanted to withdraw $5,000 Cash from my savings account, I had to give the Bank 48 Hours Notice.

Small Business used to get a Business Package which included a Set Fee for Credit and Debit Transactions now the Banks charge 3.5% per transaction.

[prktkljokr]

They don't want you dealing in cash, they want you to transfer money and become a cashless society, I went to a branch a few months back to withdraw some cash and was informed it was a cashless bank? WTF, was informed I could withdraw from the teller machine out the front?

Solution was to close the account and move my money to my other bank who do still deal in cash, if it gets any worse I will be buying a decent safe and keeping my cash where I can access it.

We need to deal more in cash before we lose it forever.

[EBSXR6]

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

We need to deal more in cash before we lose it forever.

I believe the Banks and Government want a Cashless Society.
Banks can close more Branches and sack staff.
The Government can close the Mint and Note Printing Branch, which will save Millions in Costs and also sack the Staff.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

They don't want you dealing in cash, they want you to transfer money and become a cashless society, I went to a branch a few months back to withdraw some cash and was informed it was a cashless bank? WTF, was informed I could withdraw from the teller machine out the front?

Solution was to close the account and move my money to my other bank who do still deal in cash, if it gets any worse I will be buying a decent safe and keeping my cash where I can access it.

We need to deal more in cash before we lose it forever.

Would not bother me at all if cash disappeared. As I posted a week or so back in another thread, I rarely use cash and would have used less than $100 in it so far this year.

It's old technology and honestly can't see why people want it retained.

[EBSXR6]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

It's old technology and honestly can't see why people want it retained.

I hope small Business starts offering a Discount for Cash or just adds the 3.5% for Electronic Transactions. I now have a better understanding of no Split Bills at Restaurants etc.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by EBSXR6

I hope small Business starts offering a Discount for Cash or just adds the 3.5% for Electronic Transactions.

That will never happen because when a business looks at it properly, handling large amounts of cash is actually more expensive than electronic transactions.

I've been to a number of businesses in the past and tried the "will you do better for cash". They told me no because its too expensive to deal in cash.

The only incentive for small business to prefer cash was once the ability to hide it. There is no real way to hide it anymore these days.

I'm also not sure why a business would add electronic payment fee. Any smart business would include that in the base cost of the item anyways.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Would not bother me at all if cash disappeared. As I posted a week or so back in another thread, I rarely use cash and would have used less than $100 in it so far this year.

It's old technology and honestly can't see why people want it retained.

I prefer cash any day for deals where you can get substantial discount, you won't get that with cards.
Banks want cashless to charge you fees, government want cashless for tax purpose.

People these days are being hoodwinked with cashless transactions and do not see the true costs against the consumer.

PS: Oh yea just wait when the machines are down, and you cannot do transactions in times of need.

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by EBSXR6

I believe the Banks and Government want a Cashless Society.
Banks can close more Branches and sack staff.
The Government can close the Mint and Note Printing Branch, which will save Millions in Costs and also sack the Staff.

Banks can also profit more from a cashless society by charging a transaction fee every time someone waves a card or phone over a POS machine.

I'm sure others have seen the thing on social media about how $50 in a cash society remains $50 no matter how many hands it passes through, where as it loses value through each electronic transaction as the bank takes a cut each time?

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by arm79

I'm also not sure why a business would add electronic payment fee. Any smart business would include that in the base cost of the item anyways.

Not only would they include it in their pricing initially but also then claim the expense back in their BAS statements as a business expense to justify paying less tax. Win/win for the business while the consumer gets screwed even more.

I actually cant believe the hide of small business owners who look you in the eye and tell you they are going to charge you extra on top of the price for tapping and going because the bank is charging them!

[prktkljokr]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Would not bother me at all if cash disappeared. As I posted a week or so back in another thread, I rarely use cash and would have used less than $100 in it so far this year.

It's old technology and honestly can't see why people want it retained.

Meh, I always use cash, my pay goes into the bank, I draw it out and pay cash, its the way I like it, never used tap and go and I'm not going to start.

When I purchased my hoist and paid in cash the owner said he wasn't accepting cash and he wanted me to pay by card, I just said I will buy a hoist somewhere else then, then he took the cash.

He gave me some speel about now having to pay one of his staff to take it too the bank, I just said it better than not being able to pay your staff because you didn't sell a hoist?

[arm79]

Originally Posted by XR6TCraig

Not only would they include it in their price initially but also then claim the expense back in their BAS statements. Win/win for the business while the consumer gets screwed even more.

I think you need a bit more of an education on the tax system there.

They only claim the GST back on their BAS, because GST is transferred to the end purchaser, which in this case would be the person buying the item. And in that case it would only equate to a few cents or fractions of a cent.

The remainder can be claimed as an expense against transaction via their tax returns, which actually negates your previous comment of:

where as it loses value through each electronic transaction as the bank takes a cut each time?

Electronic transactions are like Newtons law of energy conservation. Its never created or destroyed, just turned into different forms.

The $50 is turned into a partial income to the bank and the majority remains with the retailer. The retailer is then allowed to claim the expense against their profit, which means they pay less income tax to the ATO. If the expense wasn't incurred they would have to pay a greater portion of the profit to the ATO as income tax anyways.

The only way your $50 remains $50 theory holds water is when I hand $50 to you personally. $50 turns into $35 the moment you hand it to a retailer as the ATO immediately hits them with an income tax liability and the only way the retailer can get it back close to $50 is to claim back expenses.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

When I purchased my hoist and paid in cash the owner said he wasn't accepting cash and he wanted me to pay by card, I just said I will buy a hoist somewhere else then, then he took the cash.

He gave me some speel about now having to pay one of his staff to take it too the bank, I just said it better than not being able to pay your staff because you didn't sell a hoist?

And he's right. You have no idea how much it costs to deal in cash.

You pay a large sum of cash to this hoist guy and he has to store it and insure it, just in case. Then he has to take it to the bank, whether he pays an employee to do it or does it himself, and takes the risk of it being stolen. He may insure the potential lost, which costs him. If the person taking it gets rolled or loses it, he's out at his loss, not yours. If he or the employee get hurt then workcover get involved and he's hit up for higher premiums and the demand to not use case or use a professional cash transfer service, which costs him even more money.

I work at a place that roughly does about $1m per month in revenue, split about 65/35 card and cash.

Every day we lose money because staff can't count the cash properly, the tills are always out. Sometimes upto $50 a day per till, and there are 10 of them. At the end of every month the aim is to not have more than $1000 in cash lost.

In order for it to be banked for wages and purchases, this cash has to be counted multiple times in house to be sure there are no errors, your looking at roughly 2 man hour days per week spread across multiple people to make that happen.

Then it needs to be transferred using secure professional services to the bank.

Prosegur alone costs about $10k per month. And that $10k does not include all of the other costs listed to make it happen. When that $350k in this case, if it were card, would only cost around $5000 in transaction fees.

Whereas the EFT balances are never ever out of balance and it happens instantly without any extra work required.

Quite simply people stubbornly clinging to cash actually INCREASE the costs of doing business and therefore increase the costs to the consumer, but are completely blind to the fact they are. You are not doing businesses a favour at all.

[EBSXR6]

Previously the small business had a fixed fee of $300 Per Month for Electronic Transactions.
If the business does a large amount of Electronic Transactions the fee was minimal per transaction.
Now if the small business does $50,000 a month electronic transaction the fees would be $750.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by EBSXR6

The Government can close the Mint and Note Printing Branch, which will save Millions in Costs and also sack the Staff.

They'll have to keep printing cash, whether we go cashless or not.

[Interceptor]

*DO NOT* get me started on banks.... lets leave it that when they tell you they dont know where your money is, the bank, the police & the local magistrate all seem to consider it perfectly acceptable.....

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by arm79

I think you need a bit more of an education on the tax system there.

They only claim the GST back on their BAS, because GST is transferred to the end purchaser, which in this case would be the person buying the item. And in that case it would only equate to a few cents or fractions of a cent.

The remainder can be claimed as an expense against transaction via their tax returns, which actually negates your previous comment of:



Electronic transactions are like Newtons law of energy conservation. Its never created or destroyed, just turned into different forms.

The $50 is turned into a partial income to the bank and the majority remains with the retailer. The retailer is then allowed to claim the expense against their profit, which means they pay less income tax to the ATO. If the expense wasn't incurred they would have to pay a greater portion of the profit to the ATO as income tax anyways.

The only way your $50 remains $50 theory holds water is when I hand $50 to you personally. $50 turns into $35 the moment you hand it to a retailer as the ATO immediately hits them with an income tax liability and the only way the retailer can get it back close to $50 is to claim back expenses.

I don't need any lessons about anything from an arrogant ***** lecturing from upon high, thank you very much.

While I've mixed up the BAS bit, you've failed to recognise that the cash economy is alive and well, assuming that the ATO will get a % of every transaction done in cash. That's not the case.
In fact it's often small cash jobs that keeps a small services business such as sole trader tradesmen ticking over with a bit of cash flow to pay the bills and feed the kids while they wait 30,60, or even 90 days for payment from larger clients or for larger jobs.
Pocketed, that cash retains its full value, whereas when you HAVE to process it through the bank, you lose a portion straight up plus then have to declare it as income.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by arm79

And he's right. You have no idea how much it costs to deal in cash.

You pay a large sum of cash to this hoist guy and he has to store it and insure it, just in case. Then he has to take it to the bank, whether he pays an employee to do it or does it himself, and takes the risk of it being stolen. He may insure the potential lost, which costs him. If the person taking it gets rolled or loses it, he's out at his loss, not yours. If he or the employee get hurt then workcover get involved and he's hit up for higher premiums and the demand to not use case or use a professional cash transfer service, which costs him even more money.

I work at a place that roughly does about $1m per month in revenue, split about 65/35 card and cash.

Every day we lose money because staff can't count the cash properly, the tills are always out. Sometimes upto $50 a day per till, and there are 10 of them. At the end of every month the aim is to not have more than $1000 in cash lost.

In order for it to be banked for wages and purchases, this cash has to be counted multiple times in house to be sure there are no errors, your looking at roughly 2 man hour days per week spread across multiple people to make that happen.

Then it needs to be transferred using secure professional services to the bank.

Prosegur alone costs about $10k per month. And that $10k does not include all of the other costs listed to make it happen. When that $350k in this case, if it were card, would only cost around $5000 in transaction fees.

Whereas the EFT balances are never ever out of balance and it happens instantly without any extra work required.

Quite simply people stubbornly clinging to cash actually INCREASE the costs of doing business and therefore increase the costs to the consumer, but are completely blind to the fact they are. You are not doing businesses a favour at all.

It is only greed from big businesses and banks to increase their profits and lower their own overhead costs, before cards came along cash has done quite well.
You are only swallowing the BS from banks & govco who implement these charges.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by XR6TCraig

I don't need any lessons about anything from an arrogant ***** lecturing from upon high, thank you very much.

Moan about it all you want, if you're going to take a position at least be accurate in what you are saying.

Originally Posted by XR6TCraig

While I've mixed up the BAS bit, you've failed to recognise that the cash economy is alive and well, assuming that the ATO will get a % of every transaction done in cash. That's not the case.

And the problem with that is that on the flip side people like yourselves bitch and moan about how government spending is cut on roads, education, health, etc, etc.

Where does this money come from to pay for these things. The cash economy is a disservice to you, me and everyone else in Australia.

Originally Posted by XR6TCraig

In fact it's often small cash jobs that keeps a small services business such as sole trader tradesmen ticking over with a bit of cash flow to pay the bills and feed the kids while they wait 30,60, or even 90 days for payment from larger clients or for larger jobs.

And do you not realise how many people have gotten themselves into **** doing this. Paying for bills and and stuff from "cashies" then claiming it as an expense only for the ATO to realise later they have spent more than they earn.

P.S. Anyone who signs up to work on 60 day or more payments terms is nuts. History has told us, the history littered with bankrupted tradies, is that is a stupid idea.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by Itsme

You are only swallowing the BS from banks & govco who implement these charges.

So you are completely oblivious to the facts as I have written. Facts as written by a business owner who does all the admin for that business and in addition works in a business that has a large cash revenue component and watches how onerous looking after the cash side is.

You believe that cash is cheaper for business. I'm telling you for a vast large majority of businesses, it isn't. It's more expensive to handle cash than simple use cards and pay a transaction fee.

Thats not swallowing BS. It's simply realistic facts.

[prktkljokr]

Originally Posted by arm79

And he's right. You have no idea how much it costs to deal in cash.

You pay a large sum of cash to this hoist guy and he has to store it and insure it, just in case. Then he has to take it to the bank, whether he pays an employee to do it or does it himself, and takes the risk of it being stolen. He may insure the potential lost, which costs him. If the person taking it gets rolled or loses it, he's out at his loss, not yours. If he or the employee get hurt then workcover get involved and he's hit up for higher premiums and the demand to not use case or use a professional cash transfer service, which costs him even more money.

I work at a place that roughly does about $1m per month in revenue, split about 65/35 card and cash.

Every day we lose money because staff can't count the cash properly, the tills are always out. Sometimes upto $50 a day per till, and there are 10 of them. At the end of every month the aim is to not have more than $1000 in cash lost.

In order for it to be banked for wages and purchases, this cash has to be counted multiple times in house to be sure there are no errors, your looking at roughly 2 man hour days per week spread across multiple people to make that happen.

Then it needs to be transferred using secure professional services to the bank.

Prosegur alone costs about $10k per month. And that $10k does not include all of the other costs listed to make it happen. When that $350k in this case, if it were card, would only cost around $5000 in transaction fees.

Whereas the EFT balances are never ever out of balance and it happens instantly without any extra work required.

Quite simply people stubbornly clinging to cash actually INCREASE the costs of doing business and therefore increase the costs to the consumer, but are completely blind to the fact they are. You are not doing businesses a favour at all.

He may be right in him having to pay his staff member, but I am right also when I take my cash walking to a retailer who has no problem accepting it ,

If he does not want to accept cash he will be losing a portion of his income, which in turn will effect his ability to pay his staff member, this is why I would say he took it as I proceeded to leave.

If we think of all the shoulda, woulda, coulda, scenarios, he could have his account hacked, taken to a teller machine at gunpoint, staff member taking a cut from the account, there are risks involved with being in business and that's life.

Cash has worked fine for hundreds of years, Im sure it will work for hundreds more.

I'm also sure your card will be useless if we end up in a war scenario like Ukraine, go buy your food to survive with a cashless society then.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

It's old technology and honestly can't see why people want it retained.

I use cards when the EFT machines don't add a surcharge. I use cash when they do. I refuse to pay the banks for the privilege of using their EFT machines

and yes, I know the charges are often hidden in the business' prices, but it makes me feel better

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by arm79

I'm also not sure why a business would add electronic payment fee. Any smart business would include that in the base cost of the item anyways.

You don't eat out much then.
It's an everyday extra charged on paying in most cafe's now and very hard to tip someone personally using a card !

Supermarkets like Aldi's have huge signs stating a fee added to the bill for using cards whether its your money or credit.

Cash is king.

[1970XW351]

The most concerning aspect of going cashless?...
What happens to swap meets, garage sales and the like?
Does everyone wishing to sell things at these venues need to be a licensed trader and have an eftpos setup? I'm sure the government would love that, as they will be able to monitor every penny and take their cut.
I definitely prefer the anonymity of cash, not because I am up to anything clandestine... I just don't like every man and his dog knowing exactly where and what I am spending my money on.

Cheers, Tony

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by 1970XW351

The most concerning aspect of going cashless?...
What happens to swap meets, garage sales and the like?
Does everyone wishing to sell things at these venues need to be a licensed trader and have an eftpos setup? I'm sure the government would love that, as they will be able to monitor every penny and take their cut.
I definitely prefer the anonymity of cash, not because I am up to anything clandestine... I just don't like every man and his dog knowing exactly where and what I am spending my money on.

Cheers, Tony

Funny how people think you're part of the "Darkweb" just because you prefer to use cash.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by EBSXR6

I wanted to withdraw $5,000 Cash from my savings account, I had to give the Bank 48 Hours Notice.

Small Business used to get a Business Package which included a Set Fee for Credit and Debit Transactions now the Banks charge 3.5% per transaction.

Open up more bank accounts :P $2k ATM withdrawal per day per bank.

[MrEL]

I just have to log onto my banking app and change my daily withdrawal limit. Takes about 1 minute.

[1970XW351]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Funny how people think you're part of the "Darkweb" just because you prefer to use cash.

It's funny, a couple of my mates are firmly anti cash and think I'm bonkers for being the opposite.
We went to Singapore for a few days earlier in the year and who was Johnny on the spot to pay our way out when there were no card facilities in a few of the more remote areas?
I don't think it changed their view at all but the irony was not lost on me.

[Cav]

A fee of 1.18

[ford71V8]

Originally Posted by 1970XW351

The most concerning aspect of going cashless?...
What happens to swap meets, garage sales and the like?
Does everyone wishing to sell things at these venues need to be a licensed trader and have an eftpos setup? I'm sure the government would love that, as they will be able to monitor every penny and take their cut.
I definitely prefer the anonymity of cash, not because I am up to anything clandestine... I just don't like every man and his dog knowing exactly where and what I am spending my money on.

Cheers, Tony

Swap meets, garage sales, etc... no eftpos but as long as each of you has a smart phone bank transfers can be done. I see it at record fairs. I take cash. But then I ran out of cash, and had to pay a $3 fee to get more from the ATM. Hate that.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

No matter your personal preference, I'm sure there are pros and cons with both. Go with whatever works for you. I just wanted to post that I don't use cash. There have been very few times where I've not been able to make payment with a card or via funds transfer since I essentially went cashless about 5 years ago.

The biggest bonus for me is I don't have to lug a whopping big wallet around like my old man taught me to do as a young lad. It took a while to adjust, but I really don't miss cash at all.

I do carry $10 on me for those rare occasions where electronic payments are not accepted.