Dealership problem solving, is this good customer service or a shameless rip off?

[gstar]

Hey guys,
I recently had my 08 BF11 RTV at a Ford dealership in Perth to have a new set of keys reprogrammed. When I collected the ute, I was told that "the battery and starter motor were stuffed."
When I got home, I rang the RAC. The patrolman found the problem within 5 minutes. He replaced the terminal on the starter motor trigger wire (a 5 cent part) and saved me about $800, (the quote from Ford for the battery and starter motor). The patrolman told me that the starter motor would be good for another hundred thousand km's and the battery was fine.
The written response from the service manager said "in the past we have carried out the the same repair as the RAC did. Every time we have done this in the past, it has ended in a new starter motor and an upset customer. It is my policy that we replace the starter motor so we do not leave our valued customers stranded."
2 months on, no problems with the starter motor nor battery. Is this a case of looking after a 'valued' customer or an attempt at a blatant rip off!
Gary

[simon varley]

probably a case of damned if they do, and damned if they don't. I'd always get a second opinion in the case of any unplanned work so I think you certainly did the right thing.

[FPV+fteT3]

I have worked with Techs before who rather than diagnosing the problem replace everything it could be and charge you for the lot, guaranteed to fix it. Thats ok if you have plenty of cash to waste but you hopefully learn from this and move on.
The response when you called back was called saving face read BS

[oxmo]

Originally Posted by simon varley

probably a case of damned if they do, and damned if they don't. I'd always get a second opinion in the case of any unplanned work so I think you certainly did the right thing.

Absolutely +1

I remember when I got my car serviced they said that the tyres needed replacing "ASAP!"

I went to 2 different tyre shops to have them checked and they both said that I still had a minimum of 15K left in them.

I guess human beings make mistakes, always a good idea to get a second and perhaps 3rd opinion to play it safe,

[olfella]

I have had quite a lot of dealings with dealers service department and would not feed any of them. They are unable to diagnose a problem even if it dripped oil all over them. They all seem to be hell bent on the 'up-sell' mentality, which is probably OK for lease companies but for us mugs, it is just a rip off, but to keep a warranty valid we must use them. If we go to another mechanic (not tech!!) they make it hard to get a claim through to Ford...

[cro142]

It is a very disappointing situation that good service is rarely available from Ford dealers.

It has been like this for many years, and Ford seem to accept the mediocre and expensive service provided by their franchisees.

Poor service is one of the factors leading to declining Falcon sales.
Customers just got fed up with it.

How often have we heard the comeback "they all do that". BS

[Polyal]

You mean like when your premium au brakes rattle because the little rubber insulator is missing and your quoted 400 for front pads (already had new pads) when you only need to spend ~20 bucks on eBay? No thanks Denmac Ford.

[commodorenutt]

I'm sure a lot of us can tell similar stories. Like the guy on the service desk when I booked it in for it's 15k service, who swore blind my passenger seat wouldn't move forward because of a coin jammed in the runners. I'd already seen the reason - a failed weld (probably from surface contamination during manufacture). I told him I'd be willing to bet him $100 it was not a jammed coin, but he kept pushing the point that it had to be.

Service manager spoke to me when I picked the car up. Definitely a warranty issue, and they'd call when the replacement base was in. Went back a few days later & had it fixed while I waited. Young smart-Alec pulls a mangled 50c coin out of his desk drawer & tried to tell me the mechanic found it in my car. He had a very red face when I told him it was in to get a new base because of a failed weld.

These guys need to realise there are those of us out there who have been around cars for a few decades, and we know what's going on.

If I bring something back for warranty, I've already diagnosed the failure. Like the LPi issues. I got one of the first LPi FGs, and quickly racked up the km in it. It went back to the dealer a number of times only to be told it's a loose manifold, or a rattling heat shield. Nope, can't be a problem with the valve train or the head. I even recorded the noise on my iPhone - from inside the car! Every time it was a different excuse, but I knew there was something else up with it. The head was replaced prior to the recall - vindicating my complaints. It was then recalled & replaced again.... There were some smug faces when they admitted the problem wasn't a loose manifold....

We're not all ignorant owners who wouldn't know a spark plug from a bleed nipple, but some still insist on treating us like that.

[Road_Warrior]

When I got a trans cooler fitted to my BA the workshop forgot to plug my thermofans back in

Didn't realise until the car started boiling its head off!!!

[Yellow_Festiva]

Much the same with servicing. I got a call every time my car was in. If it wasn't the brakes it was the wiper blades, if it wasn't the tyres it was a wheel alignment / balance.

All items were in need of immediate attention (for my own good), and all items were good for another 20-30k km after they were 'due' when a second opinion was sought.

When my Focus went in for the dreaded powershift shudder they told me it was $660 to pull, investigate and replace the box as they had never heard of these issues before...

Wonder how many they actually sucker in?

[LTDHO]

Customers money = replace everything.
Your money = Find fault and fix

[mattrobbo26]

Originally Posted by oxmo

Absolutely +1

I remember when I got my car serviced they said that the tyres needed replacing "ASAP!"

I went to 2 different tyre shops to have them checked and they both said that I still had a minimum of 15K left in them.

I guess human beings make mistakes, always a good idea to get a second and perhaps 3rd opinion to play it safe,

I've had exactly the same thing. Tyres are going to need replacing. I knew straight away they were having me on as only about 1000km previously I'd upgraded from 18" xr wheels to the 19" luxury packs with brand new tyres. They also use to tell me they'd done a wheel rotation but I had a specific bit of gutter rush on one wheel only and that wheel never even moved. Another time, your rear pads are going to need replacing that will cost $280. Being a manual I slow down with the gearing a bit. Declined the offer took the car home took the rear wheels off looked at the pads still more than 3/4 of pad left.
It is wrong how they try to 'upsell' like this. People that are less car savvy than others can easily be swindled out of some decent money.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by gstar

" our valued customers "

Well we know what value they've placed on you Gary - $800

Obviously every customer has a value they can be charged out at.

Originally Posted by cro142

It is a very disappointing situation that good service is rarely available from Ford dealers.

Kinghorn Ford Nowra. Old fashioned no bull**** country mechanics. Never seen a better Ford dealer.

[superfly]

Originally Posted by cro142

It is a very disappointing situation that good service is rarely available from Ford dealers.

It's not only Ford dealers, it's pretty much any dealer. I've got stories like these from Subaru and Hyundai dealers.

As mentioned above, if you're unhappy, get a second opinion.

So far my local Ford dealer has been excellent dealing with any issues I've raised.

[Polyal]

Getting a second opinion is all well in good if you have the time. Shouldnt need to play dealers against each other.

[xisled]

One of the main reasons dealers will replace parts and send you a letter like this, is to stop any future action that you may want to take against the dealership.

Example of this, customer takes car for fault and dealership only replace faulty connection then 2 months later alternator goes and battery is destroyed due to faulty alternator, the customer will basically say why did you not replace battery and alternator 2 months ago, instead you just replaced the terminal. I want my money back because you fixed the wrong issue, or you fixed it the first time it’s your fault it isn’t broken down now.

People may think it is a rip off, but in 2 months’ time when the car is off the road for a second time they would be cursing they didn’t get the item replaced the first time. Saving time the car is off the road and money.

[Kieron]

Mechanic neighbor of mine worked at a VW stealership (owned by AHG) and was constantly pushed to up-sell with the likes of injectors cleans, used to have argument with his manager cause he knew it was a blatant ripoff and refused to do it.

An interesting story, some owners with older VW's would skip the cam belt change as it was big $$'s, invariably it would break and the cars ends up at the dealer with damaged engine requiring even more high $$ repairs and quite often, they owners are talked into buying a new VW, obviously with a seemingly decent trade in on the car with a stuffed engine, he would then buy these cars off the dealer, take them home and repair them himself and sell for a profit!

He left VW and started his own mobile mechanic business specialising in VW's and is doing extremely well.

[cram_it_frog]

I am not sure why this sort of thing happens a simple way to fix this is to

ring client and say this is what we think is wrong we can either

replace the starter and Battery or we can fix terminal and if it plays up again we may have to go a little further and replace the starter

there is no major problem if the customer is in the RAc/RAA it can be towed different story in the outback a simple tow can take hours to sort out

simple communication seem to be a major problem in today's work force

I am lucky I am retired and do not have to put up with all the crap of today's work force

I know for a fact the local service manager was not happy that you guys gave me the TSB for the air bag fault because he wanted me to pay for a new air bag

As customers we all have rights and we need to speak up and complain if they do the wrong thing and maybe if more complain things may improve

I know I am only dreaming of this improving but just may be if once service manager changes other s may follow

[Itsme]

Typical blatant rip off, don't know how many times I heard of this when you still have plenty of serviceable life in the product that will see you through to the next service interval.
Scare Tactics from the dealer imo to make more money.

[TRAU BLAU]

Before sites like this(ford forums)there must have been more rip-offs by dealers to unwary customers who believed in the integrity of their garage,dealer,mechanic etc.But business is business & everyone knows that the bottom line is $$$$$.

[ebv8]

its better value for the mechanic to replace parts than spend hours looking for a fault, a 5c part might take 3 hours to find then they have to justify 3 hours of time, why not replace 4 parts and 1 hour of time?? less time spent and more money made from markup of spare parts
i just do everything myself, if i replace a part and there is still a fault, i just tell myself well at least there are more new parts in my car.
however i still have an airbag fault in my commodore so one by one i'm replacing parts as its cheaper than getting holden to scan it to find the fault

I just picked up a bike and the seller said he was told his new Kia has to be serviced every 5,000km even though the book says 10,000km...hungry dealer if you ask me

[simon varley]

yeah, hyundai dealer tried that on with us too. Book says 15,000km normally but 7500km in harsh environments. Dealer service dept tried to convince us Australia needed the 7500km interval even though we were only in Geelong.

[cram_it_frog]

ebv8 you have a good point there especially when local sparky wanted $100 just to plug his machines into the cars computer

but I still feel in many cases there is a lack of basic communication

every situation is different but as professional they should be able to find a basic fault

I did systems admin for IT cert 4 at TAFE and so many of the young kids we just unable to find a basic fault like a plug loose or ram taken out before hand so they can learn to find the fault

May be we need to go back to basic learning and start from scratch and teach them how to find a fault and fix it

is the situation now at plugin the car reader into a cars computer is the only way they are taught to find a problem and if that does not work use a dart board to find the problem

[cram_it_frog]

Simon varley so If Geelong is a harsh environment what will Broken Hill or Tibooburra clasified as every 200 ks

[Phildo]

Originally Posted by gstar

Hey guys,
I recently had my 08 BF11 RTV at a Ford dealership in Perth to have a new set of keys reprogrammed.

What did the dealership charge to reprogram the keys?

I had the same job done on an FPV on Monday. Found someone mobile to do it. He was there in an hour and charged $110 to code two keys. Didn't need to pay dollars for towing - very pleased.

Starter motor - if you need one then get a Bosch BXF456 from Covs, MTQ Engine Systems (in Malaga), etc. You'll pay anywhere between $100 and 150 for one.

Battery - go to SuperCharge in Bayswater and get a SuperCharge MF50. The 650CCA and 107RC will be enough for anything you do, and you'll pay a bunch less than anywhere else. That's what I'm using in my taxi (and now FPV as well) these days.

And, for workshop stuff... take it to a taxi workshop. They do Falcon stuff all day...

[Tassie f100]

It is pretty common knowledge that diesel vehicles should have oil and filter change at 7-8000k intervals.diesel oil gets too dirty if left for 15000k.the rest of the service interval can probably be stretched out to 20000.35 years experience has taught me a lot.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by superfly

It's not only Ford dealers, it's pretty much any dealer. I've got stories like these from Subaru and Hyundai dealers.

As mentioned above, if you're unhappy, get a second opinion.

So far my local Ford dealer has been excellent dealing with any issues I've raised.

Perhaps Ford should include your thoughts in their service interval guidelines.

Please note when it comes to anything to do with your Ford, we recommend you see your Ford dealer and then always get a second opinion about anything our authorised dealers say. Remember if they stuff it up and cost you a fortune someone else probably has a worse story. Thanks for buying a Ford.

[Windsor220]

Its them looking after themselves. If they do the cheap fix then 6 months later the starter dies then they will have to pay the $800 out of their own pocket because they did the initial repair. After getting stung multiple times its common practice these days to quote the whole thing to save issues later.

[Phildo]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Its them looking after themselves. If they do the cheap fix then 6 months later the starter dies then they will have to pay the $800 out of their own pocket because they did the initial repair. After getting stung multiple times its common practice these days to quote the whole thing to save issues later.

So discuss it with the customer.

Give him/her the choice.

Make notes on the computer record during the conversation.

On the invoice: "Customer was advised that replacing the starter motor was the recommended option but customer elected to retain existing starter motor for now."

That creates documentation that the customer was given the option. If the starter motor then dies two days later then the workshop is clear of liability.

[tapeworm]

Got my EF in for a service at Ford about a year ago, they ended up having my car for over a week and I got slugged 4k! they had to change the heater pipe (leak) and replace the leaking fuel pressure reg. What a saga, my car's only worth 2k! and I still had a transmission that wouldn't stay in gear. Never going back. Salesman chillin out the back smoking as you enter, they're like a pack of crims.