Wheels July 08 - John Carey's Column

[b2tf]

Got my copy of the July Wheels Mag today and in it John Carey's usual column makes for quite a good read. For anybody who hasnt seen it yet, his point is basically that high fuel prices are not such a bad thing because they reign in irresponsible spending and squandering of a finite resource (fuel). He also goes on to say that todays high prices will end up being a good thing for the auto industry because it effectively forces the development of new technology earlier, which brings about better quality vehicles etc etc.

Carey raises some good points and it got me thinking that fuel prices have not actually made THAT much difference to my daily routines - yet. I own a V8 and when asked the question "do you wish you didnt own it" (and it's becoming a daily occurence now) the answer is always no - when confronted with the "what planet are you on" look my justification is that my V8 is more fuel efficient than my parent's newer model 6 cylinder falcon (which it is), and it also comes down to the simple fact that I like my V8.

With HSV now pumping out 6.2L LS3 engines and Ford still utilising a 5.4, it makes you wonder just how many people pay attention to fuel prices - and if they do, does it actually make any difference to their buying habits when it comes to cars, and does it affect their decisions on a day to day basis.

So is it a case of a problem being blown out of proportion, or are we car enthusiasts a bunch of ignorant selfish fuel guzzlers who are damning the planet? I know what my opinion is but I'm curious as to the opinions of the rest of us.

[uranium_death]

All I have is a 6 cylinder VTII, but I will say that because I enjoy driving, as well as riding in comfort (the VTII is nicer than the XF or even a modern Camry or Corolla!), I am prepared to foot the bill.

If I had the cash, I would seriously consider a V8 purely because it would be enjoyable to drive and admire.

If people are worried about petrol, then can buy a "Smart" Car and run off the smell of an oily rag.

[ieatsports_cars]

its propberly al right for him because he is proberly on a big wages un like half or more then half of the australia population ! i dont mind paying for the petrol and i would also like to know what sort of v8 is he driving !

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by ieatsports_cars

its propberly al right for him becasue he is proberly on a big wages un like half or more then half of the australia population ! i dont mind paying for the petrol and i would also like to know what sort of v8 is he driving !

VE Calais according to the long term testing column!

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by b2tf

Carey raises some good points and it got me thinking that fuel prices have not actually made THAT much difference to my daily routines - yet. I own a V8 and when asked the question "do you wish you didnt own it" (and it's becoming a daily occurence now) the answer is always no - when confronted with the "what planet are you on" look my justification is that my V8 is more fuel efficient than my parent's newer model 6 cylinder falcon (which it is), and it also comes down to the simple fact that I like my V8.

When your daily routine consists of paying for a mortgage with rising rates, two cars and 2.3 children on one wage you may have a different perspective, every dollar counts.

[MITCHAY]

I don't think I can see the worth in it much longer even though I get decent economy for the most part. It all adds up though with insurance and servicing.

[Whitey-AMG]

At over 1.70 for V power or Ultimate its really starting to hurt my wallet now. The GT ain't exactly frugal around town so its bad drinking habit is starting to concern me now. I've cut back on my weekend cruising and think twice about going places that are too far away.

Its definitely affecting most businesses as well.........I got offered $20.00 travel fuel to take my car for its service to the dealer I purchsed the GT from. As the dealer is on the other side of town , they were aware that it would cost me to go there so they offered me fuel to get there............probably rip me senseless with the service bill.........but nonetheless more and more businesses are becoming acutely aware of their customers fuel burdens.

I also have it in good faith from some executives at Shell that we may see normal unleaded go beyond $2.00 by years end, particularly over the Christmas break which is the peak Winter season demand in the USA.

[ieatsports_cars]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

When your daily routine consists of paying for a mortgage with rising rates, two cars and 2.3 children on one wage you may have a different perspective, every dollar counts.

yep it sure does ! has i said he proberly on a high wage ! so its all right for him to say that !

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by b2tf

Carey raises some good points and it got me thinking that fuel prices have not actually made THAT much difference to my daily routines - yet. I own a V8 and when asked the question "do you wish you didnt own it" (and it's becoming a daily occurence now) the answer is always no - when confronted with the "what planet are you on" look my justification is that my V8 is more fuel efficient than my parent's newer model 6 cylinder falcon (which it is), and it also comes down to the simple fact that I like my V8.

My car was up for renewal and I dumped my V8 for a smaller V6. It enjoys 5l/100km better mileage which for me equates (based on the current fuel price) to around $3000 cash in hand per year real saving.

I have a moderate mortgage and no children (that I know of) so $3000 isn't that significant. Add a nagging wife, 3 kids (and *probably* a 2nd car.. (not proberly... :togo: )) and that $60/week is significant.

I've resigned myself (barring a powerball win, which is going to be a long shot since I don't even put it on...) to never owning another V8 again. While I was tentative to begin with, I'm finding the decision getting easier as time goes by, particularly when the car goes for a couple more days before having to take out a loan to fill the tank.

It may not have made much of a difference to your routine... you just have to look at the slump in new large car sales to realise it's making a difference to a lot of other's routines. 4 out of 5 Ford dealerships refused to accept my XR8 as trade, can only imagine what it would be like 3 years from now when it's time for another car.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by b2tf

his point is basically that high fuel prices are not such a bad thing because they reign in irresponsible spending and squandering of a finite resource (fuel). .

This part I totally disagree with ........ It's comparable to higher tax's on cigs, alcohol, (alcopops especially) to force prices up so those less fortunate are priced out of the market ... for the betterment of the peoples! I drive a V8 so I am irresponsible in my spending? WHO is telling me NOW what I spend my money on???? If I drive an older 6 so I am also irresponsable? If I drive a 4 cylinder 1990 Magna, I am irresponsible as I dont drive a i30? I am a bad person becuase I dont ride a bike????

Those that may not give a crap, well off, single with no overheads continue on there merry way! "I'm rich so suffer you poor folk while I drink, smoke and drive my V8!" A statement like the above is more suited to the g'ment today to justify high taxes and ludicrous prices ..... and keeping them there!

Yes it has changed what I drive on weekends but thats all.....



| [/url] |

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by Rodp

It may not have made much of a difference to your routine... you just have to look at the slump in new large car sales to realise it's making a difference to a lot of other's routines. 4 out of 5 Ford dealerships refused to accept my XR8 as trade, can only imagine what it would be like 3 years from now when it's time for another car.

This particular point you've made interests me. I have as of late been looking at new cars and some of those have been smaller than what I drive now. Now I would be lying if I didn't say that fuel consumption that is less of an XR8 is something that is in my mind, but the consideration of smaller cars and looking at a new car in general is more because Im sick of spending money on the one I have now - and by that I mean mods (I have a problem please help me : ).

As an example, one I've been looking at is an XR5. Still a performance car and I would still fill it with 95 or 98 as I do with the ute - so no real saving in fuel because I'd still be paying the same prices, albeit not as frequently. My reasoning for looking at something along those lines is that it is a smaller car that I think would be a better performer than an XR8 for what I like to do. Has nothing to do with fuel - thats more just a bonus if it uses less.

Getting back to your original point that dealers wouldnt take yours, that is a real sign of the times. For me at the moment, the real reason I'm not getting into another car is that I would cop too much of a hit in terms of resale to get into a new one - its cheaper at the moment for me to keep a V8 than it is to get into another (and maybe a smaller) car.

[futura888]

^^^
Totally agree with the above comments,it is getting to the point where the lower to medium class can't even afford to drive a 4cyl let alone a v8,$100 compared to $60 is a big diff,maybe not to the execs who are on 100k+ a year.

Now to john carey's column,some points are valid,but not everybody can afford to buy a new car everytime new tech comes around.

just my 2c..cheers josh

ps.Maybe they should check the fuel usage that the government are using with their fleet of craprice's.

[Hunter]

Well at the moment I still drive my guzzling Falcon for fun sometimes, yes it makes me think about the price and yes it is a worry - I'm spending nearly $100 a week on fuel (at current prices in Bris) and that's enough to pay repayments for a new car - which is what we've just went and bought!

We've signed the papers for a new Mazda 3 which will be 10L/100 km more efficient than my Falcon is... I calculated the fuel cost for my Falcon is roughly $0.25 per km as opposed to $0.10-11 per km for the Mazda 3 (I purposely overestimated the Mazda's fuel consumption in that calculation).

Yes I will be spending slightly more to pay for the new car but at the end of the day if I stop driving the Falcon and only use it for long(er) trips or when I want to carry a load, I will save myself a bucketload in fuel. Seeing as the price of fuel IS going to go UP and the loan payments will stay the same for the next 5 years, keeping a car which uses an avg of between 16-18L/100 km (28L/100 km on e10!!) is just silly.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by b2tf

This particular point you've made interests me. I have as of late been looking at new cars and some of those have been smaller than what I drive now. Now I would be lying if I didn't say that fuel consumption that is less of an XR8 is something that is in my mind, but the consideration of smaller cars and looking at a new car in general is more because Im sick of spending money on the one I have now - and by that I mean mods (I have a problem please help me : ).

As an example, one I've been looking at is an XR5. Still a performance car and I would still fill it with 95 or 98 as I do with the ute - so no real saving in fuel because I'd still be paying the same prices, albeit not as frequently. My reasoning for looking at something along those lines is that it is a smaller car that I think would be a better performer than an XR8 for what I like to do. Has nothing to do with fuel - thats more just a bonus if it uses less.

Getting back to your original point that dealers wouldnt take yours, that is a real sign of the times. For me at the moment, the real reason I'm not getting into another car is that I would cop too much of a hit in terms of resale to get into a new one - its cheaper at the moment for me to keep a V8 than it is to get into another (and maybe a smaller) car.

...and if I wasn't in the habit of holding onto a vehicle for longer than 3-4 years, the savings of keeping the XR8 against buying a VW Golf would have to see petrol triple for at least four years before the Golf paid for itself.

Unfortunately my job relies heavily on a (reliable) car and the tax benefits had become very slim on the XR8 to the point where it was probably going to be depreciated lower than what I would be able to sell it for if I kept it another year. I love a big fat tax return at the end of financial, so I turn cars over every 3 or so years. Had it been a runabout and something I couldn't claim as a tax deduction, I probably would have joined you in keeping the V8.

Had petrol held firm at the $1.00 mark, I also would have taken the gamble and probably would have bought an FG FPV (just not sure which one). Petrol prices factored heavily in my decision for the first time ever. I had attempted to buy an XR5, I just couldn't find a Ford dealer that was all that interested in selling me one. I'm happy with my choice, it's actually quicker than my XR8, a lot more fun to drive, brilliant on long trips and uses 5l/100km less fuel.

In another 3 or so years, if I'm still relying on a vehicle to do my job, it'll likely be something a lot less fun and a lot more frugal on fuel.

[GTsteveMkII]

For me it hasn't changed anything and I don't think it ever will. With my weekend car being a V8 and my daily driver also being a V8, both run on BP Ultimate 98, the higher fuel prices have definately put a dent into the bank balance every week but I enjoy driving them both. I've been contemplating selling my daily (XR8) and won't be getting anything less than a new GT. It's not that I have money to burn but aren't we here to enjoy ourselves?

[GS608]

I'm hoping they make a V8 that has the exact characteristics of a petrol powered one, but runs on something like hydrogen or another fuel. Otherwise i'll never get the chance to go cruising with that rumble behind me

[turbo4me]

Buying a new car ( V8 or 6 ) is not on my, list i will being sticking with my T for a while.
At the moment petrol price dont worry me, what does worry me is the uncertainty.

No use buying a new car to have it sitting in your garage depreciating if petrol by the end of the year is $3 a litre.

[LTDterri]

Well we have a BA and a Territory and let me say for us with 2 kids under 5 on 1.3wages ( wife works part time ) it is becoming a concern. We are currently thinking of selling the BA and replacing it with a small car but the thought of how much we will loose on the BA and to add money to replace it with a Focus or Mazda 3, to me is alot of petrol, so I think the best option would be keep both the cars and change some of our driving habits....My neighbour leaves the car at home and catches a bus to work, I always thought this was silly, maybe I've been the silly one insisting of taking the car every where.

[XR6_190]

I don't really worry about the price of petrol too much, I enjoy driving my XR6 and at the same time I don't waste my money on cigarettes or excessive amounts of alcohol. It always makes me laugh when somebody at work says that I must spend a fortune on fuel, and should get a small 4 cyl, meanwhile they inhale a carton of cigarettes a week. It's their choice to smoke, Driving a big 6 cylinder car is my choice.

Originally Posted by LTDterri

Well we have a BA and a Territory and let me say for us with 2 kids under 5 on 1.3wages ( wife works part time ) it is becoming a concern. We are currently thinking of selling the BA and replacing it with a small car but the thought of how much we will loose on the BA and to add money to replace it with a Focus or Mazda 3, to me is alot of petrol, so I think the best option would be keep both the cars and change some of our driving habits....My neighbour leaves the car at home and catches a bus to work, I always thought this was silly, maybe I've been the silly one insisting of taking the car every where.

Have you considered putting the BA on gas? It would be cheaper than changing it over for a Focus/ Mazda 3 and will be cheaper to run too.

[Lukeyson]

got 2 V8s in the driveway, and dont intend to change that
gotta make up for all the fuel the hippies in Prius's arent using !! lol

[sleekism]

I just had an epiphony!!!

Do you think for the buyer of a second-hand V8 it wont actually cost anymore to own one when petrol hits $2 than at a $1.50???

Think about it. The higher the price of petrol goes the lower the resale of a V8 and subsequently the cheaper it is on the second hand price market. So while say a BF XR8 might be $30,000 at $1.50 a litre once it hits the psychological $2.00 a litre we should see the price around $20,000. I do 10,000 kays a year so an XR8 using 15L/100m will cost an extra $750 a year when the price goes from $1.50 to $2.00 a litre but the saving in the initial purchase price will more than make up for the extra fuel costs.

In fact if I buy a V8 and use it only as a weekend car than I will be saving an absolute fortune as their value starts plummetting.

Does anybody see any flaws in my plan because I'm already doing up my V8 wish list!!

It will be just like the 70's again with XY Gt's for sale on the side of the road for sale for $500 (what my dad told me)

[aualright]

I have started using 5th gear in the AUXR8 alot more than I used to, even at speeds as low as 60km. I used to enjoy the feel of 4th better at these speeds, but now am happy to cruise a little more. Not sure if it makes much difference but Mona Vale to Parramatta in peak hour most days does tend to suck it dry and at $1.50 - 70, it can mount up.

****

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by sleekism

I just had an epiphony!!!

Do you think for the buyer of a second-hand V8 it wont actually cost anymore to own one when petrol hits $2 than at a $1.50???

Think about it. The higher the price of petrol goes the lower the resale of a V8 and subsequently the cheaper it is on the second hand price market. So while say a BF XR8 might be $30,000 at $1.50 a litre once it hits the psychological $2.00 a litre we should see the price around $20,000. I do 10,000 kays a year so an XR8 using 15L/100m will cost an extra $750 a year when the price goes from $1.50 to $2.00 a litre but the saving in the initial purchase price will more than make up for the extra fuel costs.

In fact if I buy a V8 and use it only as a weekend car than I will be saving an absolute fortune as their value starts plummetting.

Does anybody see any flaws in my plan because I'm already doing up my V8 wish list!!

It will be just like the 70's again with XY Gt's for sale on the side of the road for sale for $500 (what my dad told me)

You theory has merit but to be honest I think V8's will go a little further downward in price and then plateau out - reason being that back in the 70s the difference in consumption between 6cyls and 8 would have been a lot more than what it is now - new technology has brought with it more fuel efficient engines.

Sat down and read a bit more of the mag last night and Peter Robinson's column actually touched on a point I made in this thread - Robbo's thoughts were that the hit you would take in resale when you do trade in your larger car for a small one is equivalent to a lot of fuel in the mean time. So it sort of comes down to how you want to accept the pain - in small hits every time you fill up, or in one massive hit when you drive to the car yard.

[LTDterri]

Thanks XR6 190 I have'nt considered putting the BA on gas as Im not a fan of the stuff. I know all the positives, and all the BA/F's at work are gassed up and run ok!!! as apposed to petrol, I just cannot bring myself to owning one, that said I dont think I can bring myself to owning a 4 banger either

[Abacus]

It cost me $0.699/L to fill up yesterday. The 400km return trip to Bathurst cost me about $35, so yes, I was really peeved. Two years ago I was only paying aound $0.45/L and the trip would have cost less than $25 in LPG.

But it doesn't affect how much I drive. The car is a workhorse, and there's no way I can reduce my mileage. I just have to pass on the costs as best I can.

[leadfoot]

Like I tell the wife - I don't smoke,do drugs,hardly drink or have a girlfriend on the side..You have to have some vices and for me cars and driving have been my passion ever since I can remember.So for that reason it doesn't really matter to me that much.

Slightly off topic - I do have to laugh about the hysteria regarding V8s..I can usually shut people up about them when I mention that my supposedly economical 4cyl Jap van (Econovan) averaged 16l/100kms.Anyone who has owned an early Hilux would know as well

[Tiapan]

it hasnt changed a thing for me...mainly because i havnt had a licence since august and wont have one until 14 months from now.

My 6.4 litre gets driven around 300km a week but im in the passenger side (unless racing), enjoying the smoke and G forces with a Bundy in my hand, my friends pay for fuel, i pay for my rum and some of the cost of tires

im still satisfied because i get to hear a clevo wailing at 7200rpm and my mates are satisfied because they get to thrash someone elses car, if they crash it.... its just an XF lol


however, when i get my licence back im buying a corolla and the xf wont be my daily driver as it used to be :( mainly so that i will keep out of trouble but also to save on fuel,

my answer to rising fuel costs is to get a job that pays more

[SSbaby]

Why limit the discussion to just high fuel prices. If you look outside the square, you'll know that just about everything we consume is a byproduct of oil...

- plastic
- bitumen
- pharmaceuticals
- shoes
- etc...

Therefore, driving your car every second weekend instead of every weekend does little to conserve gas. The increased cost hits you everywhere you go. If the cost of bitumen has doubled in line with the cost of crude over the past 18 months, what does that do for your taxes? It's not too hard to work out.

And I haven't mentioned the increased cost of transporting abovementioned items. I could go on about how the world is having to pay for the US trade deficit but it's pointless to discuss in this thread.

As you can plainly see, driving your car is but a small component of the overall effects of high crude oil prices.

[gtfpv8]

just wondering how much fuel did a ford 5.8ltr use per 100km say 15 yrs ago compared to today ?

[Abacus]

5.8 was phased out in the XE, a bit more tha 15 years ago - more like 25.

15 years ago the 5.0 EBII Falcon Sedan was rated at 14.5L/100 (urban) and 9.0L/100 (extra urban).