Australian fuel efficiency standards aimed at cutting petrol bills, 'catching up' with US

[Sprintey]

There's something in there for everyone, weeks of stoushes, ALP vs Coalition vs Industry body vs ALP vs Greens (wha?) vs NRMA vs electric vehicle lobby vs RACV vs Bowen vs different economic modeling agencies

If the Greens torpedo it, then Coalition and industry body wins (wha?), if it goes ahead we get toward Net Zero and then immediately don't as we import another 700,000 people whose CO2 outputs then heighten to our average levels as of surburban sprawl requiring cars + flatscreen lifestyle...

Coalition could have a field day with 'don't let them take our (Thai) utes!'

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

There's something in there for everyone, weeks of stoushes, ALP vs Coalition vs Industry body vs ALP vs Greens (wha?) vs NRMA vs electric vehicle lobby vs RACV vs Bowen vs different economic modeling agencies

If the Greens torpedo it, then Coalition and industry body wins (wha?), if it goes ahead we get toward Net Zero and then immediately don't as we import another 700,000 people whose CO2 outputs then heighten to our average levels as of surburban sprawl requiring cars + flatscreen lifestyle...

Coalition could have a field day with 'don't let them take our (Thai) utes!'

I love the hypocrisy from The Greens,

They want better outcomes for the environment then when the government tries to implement something that the Greens want they threaten to torpedo it if they don't get their way on something unrelated to the issue at hand.

I understand why they do it, if you want legislation through parliament then you have to come to the table on this other thing - but sinking legislation that benefits the environment without proposing amendments or an alternative solution is a bit hypocritical when you market yourself as the political party that cares about the environment.

Again, it just proves my point that just because they're a minority it doesn't mean that they don't hold disproportionate power compared to their numbers and they wield significant ability to implement their ideas.

We live in interesting times, we've all got front row tickets to this shitshow rollercoaster but I want to hop off

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I love the hypocrisy from The Greens,

They want better outcomes for the environment then when the government tries to implement something that the Greens want they threaten to torpedo it if they don't get their way on something unrelated to the issue at hand.

I understand why they do it, if you want legislation through parliament then you have to come to the table on this other thing - but sinking legislation that benefits the environment without proposing amendments or an alternative solution is a bit hypocritical when you market yourself as the political party that cares about the environment.

Again, it just proves my point that just because they're a minority it doesn't mean that they don't hold disproportionate power compared to their numbers and they wield significant ability to implement their ideas.

We live in interesting times, we've all got front row tickets to this shitshow rollercoaster but I want to hop off

We need to drop preferential voting...too many fringe MP's/Senators etc that have the balance of power but nowhere near the number of voters behind them to equate their decision-making control with the representation of the majority.

Not car related but an Animal First member together with one or two other independents elected by preferences only, had the balance of power when the vote was made for an injecting room near a primary school in an inner city suburb and yet this politician doesn't live anywhere near the affected area, in fact in a rural region, came into parliament on a one cause platform, yet can control the lives of the vast majority that DIDN'T vote for her.

On reading some of the submissions from Toyota and now Nissan which includes a request to include ADR reform (as in removal) hopefully the fed government makes a more informed and more widely accepted final decision.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

We need to drop preferential voting...too many fringe MP's/Senators etc that have the balance of power but nowhere near the number of voters behind them to equate their decision-making control with the representation of the majority.

Not car related but an Animal First member together with one or two other independents elected by preferences only, had the balance of power when the vote was made for an injecting room near a primary school in an inner city suburb and yet this politician doesn't live anywhere near the affected area, in fact in a rural region, came into parliament on a one cause platform, yet can control the lives of the vast majority that DIDN'T vote for her.

On reading some of the submissions from Toyota and now Nissan which includes a request to include ADR reform (as in removal) hopefully the fed government makes a more informed and more widely accepted final decision.

Problem is if you get rid of preferential voting and go to first past the post you end up with the US political system with two even more useless options, keep in mind these days aside from Victoria, and only in our state elections and then even further still, only in our upper house being the glaring exception, we as voters decide where our preferences go by numbering the box so we have full control over where it ends up.

The only state which still uses the 'group voting ticket' is Victoria in our state elections and only for our upper house, where if you vote above the line the party dictates where your vote goes, not you.

You can completely avoid this by simply voting below the line

The reason we are ending up with all these little parties and independents in power is that people are simply voting for other options rather than the two majors in enough numbers to create these situations - its not unique to Australia either where one group doesn't have absolute control.

I think those days are over for Australia, last federal election the majors only got something like in the low 30s on first preference votes, the 'two party preferred' system is simply out of date and no longer applicable for how Australians now vote on election day.

Also its the changing of electorates, not the total number of votes that makes the difference, if you're in a swinging/marginal electorate then you'll get everything and the kitchen sink thrown at you, if you're one of the plebs who lives in a safe seat like Calwell, then you'll get absolutely nothing because they vote like plebs and the major that holds it has a massive margin so they don't need to do anything for these people what so ever, because they win by default all the time, so you can continually take from these people and there's no repercussions.

Try shaft the people in a teal electorate and see what happens, it'll change colours quicker than your bowels after Indian.

If you look at the makeup of Victoria's upper house, the state government can't get legislation through unless they negotiate with all these micro parties, so thats why during COVID if anyone was paying attention, for the state government to get its way they had to meet these little microparties on issues that they thought was important to secure their support to get extensions on lockdowns or legislation through the upper house and all these deals were made.

If the two majors want to stop this situation from occuring then they need to stop being flogs, then they won't be bleeding primary votes like they've been stabbed in the neck.

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

We need to drop preferential voting...too many fringe MP's/Senators etc that have the balance of power but nowhere near the number of voters behind them to equate their decision-making control with the representation of the majority.

Not car related but an Animal First member together with one or two other independents elected by preferences only, had the balance of power when the vote was made for an injecting room near a primary school in an inner city suburb and yet this politician doesn't live anywhere near the affected area, in fact in a rural region, came into parliament on a one cause platform, yet can control the lives of the vast majority that DIDN'T vote for her.

On reading some of the submissions from Toyota and now Nissan which includes a request to include ADR reform (as in removal) hopefully the fed government makes a more informed and more widely accepted final decision.

Every Victorian should realise preferential voting is a bit of a joke, particularly Legislative Council group voting tickets. Not sure how unelected Glenn Druery got to have so much influence.

Rod Barton, Fiona Patten and Andy Meddick essentially have full and total control of Victorian legislation. Like you mention, the "safe" injecting room (as someone with a heroin addict uncle I really resent that one) comes to mind, and the 2021 pandemic bill too.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by ToryMikey

Every Victorian should realise preferential voting is a bit of a joke, particularly Legislative Council group voting tickets. Not sure how unelected Glenn Druery got to have so much influence.

Rod Barton, Fiona Patten and Andy Meddick essentially have full and total control of Victorian legislation. Like you mention, the "safe" injecting room (as someone with a heroin addict uncle I really resent that one) comes to mind, and the 2021 pandemic bill too.

And maybe we should add two terms and you're out...so the dead wood doesn't turn to oil before they resign or finally lose.

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

And maybe we should add two terms and you're out...so the dead wood doesn't turn to oil before they resign or finally lose.

Make it three on the federal level (given the usual three year gap between federal elections) and you’re on to a winner.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I love the hypocrisy from The Greens,

They want better outcomes for the environment then when the government tries to implement something that the Greens want they threaten to torpedo it if they don't get their way on something unrelated to the issue at hand.

I understand why they do it, if you want legislation through parliament then you have to come to the table on this other thing - but sinking legislation that benefits the environment without proposing amendments or an alternative solution is a bit hypocritical when you market yourself as the political party that cares about the environment.

Again, it just proves my point that just because they're a minority it doesn't mean that they don't hold disproportionate power compared to their numbers and they wield significant ability to implement their ideas.

We live in interesting times, we've all got front row tickets to this shitshow rollercoaster but I want to hop off

In part this is why I try to get through my millinial and gen z kids on.
Bugga wasting your vote on these fringe useless small parties incl the green, luckily they have learnt and get it yet they get influence from their friends/coherts.
Its a waste of time and you'll pay for it more and more in the future till its too late to change.
Dr Smith more good points I concur.
Even though the 2 leading parties if I can describe them as such are sess pools themselves today voters walking from them has caused alot of what come to us.
It also reduces the accountabilty voters used to have come voting.
Preferences keeps the more idiots in who block changes and more so help one the leading parties get through with a minority.
Its useless leadership and even saying that is a joke.