Temporary road work speed sign rules (Vic)

T3rminator · 06-10-2021, 09:47 PM

Just after some clarity on the rules (Vic) for temporary speed signs set up at road works.

My understanding is that you need to obey the temporary speed signs until the road work ends AND you see the next speed sign. But what if the road work has ended and the official road speed sign is not seen for some distance? Is there a distance limit before you can resume normal speed legally?

Eastern Freeway, outbound, normally 100kmh, is getting some road works done. Its 40kmh at a small section. After the road work ends, there is no temporary speed sign to go back to 100kmh, and the next official speed sign is not seen for a good 1km or so I'd say. Its a pretty **** scenario, some cars remain at 40kmh whilst others are flying past at 100kmh. Its a difference between losing your license or not.

simon varley · 06-10-2021, 10:05 PM

legally you are correct. Often the End sign is combined with a new speed limit sign but otherwise, legally you can't speed up until you do see one

in practise though you will have idiots up your **** before you've gone 50 metres so the safe option is often to speed up early

similar to slowing down. Often the signs are so far before the works that you drive kms at low speed risking others rear ending you so the safe (not legal) thing to do is to wait to slow down

There needs to be better management and consistency on temp roadworks signs imo. Not least to remove them when the work is complete or nobody is actively working. We do have one good set near here where it's 40mh when they are actively working but 60kmh when not reflecting the roadworks themselves are a hazard compared to the normal 80kmh limit, but also reflecting that worker safety is important when they are actually present

galaxy xr8 · 06-10-2021, 10:10 PM

Best thing to do in this scenario is keep left or stay in the left lane (if dual lane) and let others do as they please or speed by if they feel the need to take the risk of Mr plod sitting and waiting eagerly up ahead.

T3rminator · 06-10-2021, 10:22 PM

Yeh...I know what is sensible (go with the flow)...and I know what is to lose your license.

You occasionally also see signs get left out in the evenings, when there are no works going on. Either someone taking the **** or by accident.

40kmh in a 60 zone is not so bad. But 40kmh in the 100 is just crazy.

lincolnland · 06-10-2021, 11:17 PM

Often this issue is duration of works. Long term works require different tmp's (traffic management plans) to short term works. Likewise vicroads controlled roads and council controlled roads. Local gov or council roads have different tmp's to vicroads controlled roads. Setup time for the tmp depends on the length in metres or kms of the works, and the duration of the works. Where a major road upgrade on a vicroads road is happening long term works are signed (speed reduction etc) + increase or return to speed using a formula known in the trade. They leave the signs out permanently until and often after works are completed as it's quicker than setup or packup times of all the signage each day. Its also about protecting the those working in the trafficable corridor. We all know how ridiculous it is doing 40km/h at 3am with zero other cars on the road and its normally 100kmh road. What isn't known is are there workers out of sight in the median, or operating anywhere within the road reserve? Because we dont see them doesnt mean they arent there. Likewise, mobile road works of short duration use mobile attenuators as tempary mobile crash absorbing devices in conjunction with reduced speed limits. Another scenario where contractor traffic management companies may only place signage along the left hand lane of a multilane traffic corridor. Is it legal? No - vicroads require both lanes on approach to be signed as per the tmp. Picture driving along a hwy, you miss the only 40kmh sign on the left hand verge, you're driving in the right hand lane past a semi, at what you think is a legal 100kmh rd. Coupler km up the road vicpol hwy car pulls you over. Instant loss of licence for many months bc you didnt see a roadworks speed reduction sign in the left hand lane as it was obscured by a truck and there were no signs on the right hand verge. The tmp wasnt setup correctly or legally, but you still loose your license. Its not fair nor readonable. But it happens every day. Ignorance is no defence in the eyes of the law. Its crap. It fact.

Ben73 · 06-10-2021, 11:28 PM

I believe more people would obey road work speed limits if they were more reasonable lengths. The amount of speed restrictions that start 1km+ before any hazard and finish 1km+ after the last hazard is insane.
The whole protecting you from rocks on the road is bull in many situations.

Example, right now the speed limit on the NE Hwy at Ravensworth has dropped from 100 to 60 due to bridge works.
The lanes have slightly narrowed so fair enough on the lower limit. But they have the low speed start well before and continue well after the bridge. It has been like this for more than I month and even though I drive past regularly I've never seen a single person anywhere near the worksite.

If people are working, sure extend the speed restriction, but at 2am I don't want to be driving along slowly once I'm past the hazard. No matter what time of day it is I almost always have someone flying up behind me at 100 while I'm doing 60.

lincolnland · 06-10-2021, 11:35 PM

1km before the works zone is too allow traffic to slow without causing nose to tail smashes. Not saying i agree with it. The amount of useless absent minded drivers on the road distracted be everything and anything who dont slow or drive to the conditions blah blah blah... the setup and distances and speeds are determined by vicroads if its a viceoads controlled rd. They have to allow for the lowest form of driver.

Vesper Martini · 07-10-2021, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Yeh...I know what is sensible (go with the flow)...and I know what is to lose your license.

You occasionally also see signs get left out in the evenings, when there are no works going on. Either someone taking the **** or by accident.

40kmh in a 60 zone is not so bad. But 40kmh in the 100 is just crazy.

In Rural works on the Maroondah highway I've known them to be left out over the weekend.

Funny one of the workers must have left his Holden Captiva parked there all weekend too, it had these funny spotlights on the front for spotting wildlife no doubt...

T3rminator · 07-10-2021, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

In Rural works on the Maroondah highway I've known them to be left out over the weekend.

Funny one of the workers must have left his Holden Captiva parked there all weekend too, it had these funny spotlights on the front for spotting wildlife no doubt...

Should be a rule that such signs need to have an active beacon to show it is being used.

Burwood Hwy is getting some works done, during the day its 40, evenings 60, but a couple of evenings the 40s have been left out.

Have seen a cop pull someone over on that stretch during the day when works were being carried out. They were sitting in front of a parked escavator, so first person that went pass and disobeyed the limit....bam....

Quote:

Originally Posted by lincolnland

1km before the works zone is too allow traffic to slow without causing nose to tail smashes. Not saying i agree with it. The amount of useless absent minded drivers on the road distracted be everything and anything who dont slow or drive to the conditions blah blah blah... the setup and distances and speeds are determined by vicroads if its a viceoads controlled rd. They have to allow for the lowest form of driver.

Can certainly understand having the limits placed well before the road works. As you said, gives time for people to slow down, and also as works move along it would be unrealistic to keep moving those signs every time. Its more after the road works that seems a bit silly sometimes.

**FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0** · 07-10-2021, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Have seen a cop pull someone over on that stretch during the day when works were being carried out. They were sitting in front of a parked escavator, so first person that went pass and disobeyed the limit....bam....

Wish Mr and Mrs Plod would do this on the road works to the west of Sale, atm. This is work associated with finishing off the duplication of the Princes (note only one 's' for those who still pronounce it like the female version

) Highway duplication between Traralgon and Sale. The other week when I was heading in to site, they had already started excavation work of the new road base and were placing cement barriers between the current road and the new road works, so there was a 40km/h zone, which makes sense. Either side of that was a 60km/h zone. I was literally the only car doing the speed limit in that zone, with most cars passing me at around 100km/h. The State Revenue Office could have made a killing!

T3rminator · 07-10-2021, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Wish Mr and Mrs Plod would do this on the road works to the west of Sale, atm. This is work associated with finishing off the duplication of the Princes (note only one 's' for those who still pronounce it like the female version

) Highway duplication between Traralgon and Sale. The other week when I was heading in to site, they had already started excavation work of the new road base and were placing cement barriers between the current road and the new road works, so there was a 40km/h zone, which makes sense. Either side of that was a 60km/h zone. I was literally the only car doing the speed limit in that zone, with most cars passing me at around 100km/h. The State Revenue Office could have made a killing!

Off you go Foxy.... and please upload the video after

**FTE217** · 07-10-2021, 01:09 PM

Driving in Vic/more so Melb is like playing in the Squid Game

Itsme · 07-10-2021, 01:23 PM

No matter what you think obey the signs otherwise cop a a fine or you could lose your licence like what happened to my mate, believe me going to court to contest it will be useless as the magistrate is bound by the law to take away your licence.

**FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0** · 07-10-2021, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Off you go Foxy.... and please upload the video after

My old work colleague (as in he used to work with me, but has now retired. But he is old in age too

), who I shared a ride to work with, used to say that I missed my calling and should have been a copper with all of the things wrong I noticed people doing on our roads.

I think that was just his polite way of saying I shouldn't comment on his driving skills (or lack thereof!).

T3rminator · 07-10-2021, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsme

No matter what you think obey the signs otherwise cop a a fine or you could lose your licence like what happened to my mate, believe me going to court to contest it will be useless as the magistrate is bound by the law to take away your licence.

Yep. Pretty hefty price to pay for something that may seem like an "innocent" mistake. Fine, Court costs, lawyer costs, not being able to drive, then having to deal with car insurance once you get your licence back.

lincolnland · 07-10-2021, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Should be a rule that such signs need to have an active beacon to show it is being used.

Burwood Hwy is getting some works done, during the day its 40, evenings 60, but a couple of evenings the 40s have been left out.

Have seen a cop pull someone over on that stretch during the day when works were being carried out. They were sitting in front of a parked escavator, so first person that went pass and disobeyed the limit....bam....

Can certainly understand having the limits placed well before the road works. As you said, gives time for people to slow down, and also as works move along it would be unrealistic to keep moving those signs every time. Its more after the road works that seems a bit silly sometimes.

Agreed!

lincolnland · 07-10-2021, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itsme

No matter what you think obey the signs otherwise cop a a fine or you could lose your licence like what happened to my mate, believe me going to court to contest it will be useless as the magistrate is bound by the law to take away your licence.

Yep it isnt fair nor is it reasonable. Victorian politicians have a lot to answer for when reviewing road laws and subsequent penalties.

Tassie f100 · 07-10-2021, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Yeh...I know what is sensible (go with the flow)...and I know what is to lose your license.

You occasionally also see signs get left out in the evenings, when there are no works going on. Either someone taking the **** or by accident.

40kmh in a 60 zone is not so bad. But 40kmh in the 100 is just crazy.

Not in Vic but in Tassie,Bloke going off the handle on talkback radio.He had travelled through a bit of roadworks at about 5 am,no one around etc so he was skipping along at about 85 in a 40 roadwork zone.Cop on the way back from a job pulls him over,books him,then tells him more than 40 kmh over the limit is automatic on the spot licence gone,so he gets told to lock up the car and start walking.NOT a happy lad.

hayseed · 07-10-2021, 10:22 PM

My Mother In Laws car has that Speed sign recognition system. She Tells Me if there's no sign at the end of roadworks (or It's Blown over) system goes Nuts until it sees another speed sign..

jstanovic · 08-10-2021, 12:25 AM

There's some long term roadworks near me on a 100kph highway. Speed has been reduced to 80kph, most people ignored it and did 100kph anyway. UNTIL the permanent speed camera was readjusted to 80kph about 4 months ago, it was flashing overtime day and night, coming the opposite way you would see it flash 4 or 5 times in the minute it took to drive past it. Took about 2 months for the cars to all be doing 80kph hahaha!!!

Itsme · 08-10-2021, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon varley

legally you are correct. Often the End sign is combined with a new speed limit sign but otherwise, legally you can't speed up until you do see one

in practise though you will have idiots up your **** before you've gone 50 metres so the safe option is often to speed up early

similar to slowing down. Often the signs are so far before the works that you drive kms at low speed risking others rear ending you so the safe (not legal) thing to do is to wait to slow down

There needs to be better management and consistency on temp roadworks signs imo. Not least to remove them when the work is complete or nobody is actively working. We do have one good set near here where it's 40mh when they are actively working but 60kmh when not reflecting the roadworks themselves are a hazard compared to the normal 80kmh limit, but also reflecting that worker safety is important when they are actually present

Sometimes speed restrictions are permantly set during road works due to conditions of the roads regardless whether workers are there or not.

**Rallye Sport** · 08-10-2021, 08:20 AM

The signs aren't just there for the workers, they're left out after hours due to changed road conditions, narrow lanes, loose surfaces etc.
Just saving the numpties from themselves. If it were up too me I'd let them go and let Darwins theory prove itself.

Vesper Martini · 08-10-2021, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rallye Sport

The signs aren't just there for the workers, they're left out after hours due to changed road conditions, narrow lanes, loose surfaces etc.
Just saving the numpties from themselves. If it were up too me I'd let them go and let Darwins theory prove itself.

Yes understand like an excavator left on the side of the road, some numptie could/would drive into it..

but I have seen plenty of examples where the signs are out and here is no hazzard.

even worse Ive encountered traffic redirect signs directing traffic though other towns adding 30mins to a Journey when the path ahead is clear.

roKWiz · 09-10-2021, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Yeh...I know what is sensible (go with the flow)...and I know what is to lose your license.

You occasionally also see signs get left out in the evenings, when there are no works going on. Either someone taking the **** or by accident.

40kmh in a 60 zone is not so bad. But 40kmh in the 100 is just crazy.

Sounds like the current roadworks coming down the big hill into Yackandandah, first blind corner (80km) there's a 40km sign. With last weeks winds blowing down the signs most days made it dodgy to say the least especially adding caravan tourist into the mix.