Crazy idea -Ford, Holden AU large car JV

[GREGL]

The idea is brilliant in principle. Just imagine everybody, a manufacturer utilizing the combined expertise of both manufacturers (forget toyota they would never come to an agreement and why would they?) . With all the doom and gloom around the future of both the mainstays past 2016 bla bla , the possibility of a truly AUSTRALIAN range of vehicles , built without the restraints of overseas owners may actually unite both passionate camps.
The reality these days is we have basically reverted back to the days CKD imports of the 50's on a different scale . It was only till the 70's that either manufacturer was given a free riegn to design their own bodies . This only lasted for 10 years or so before the noose was tightened again .
All it would take is a investor with a bottomless pit of money and govt. willing to protect his/hers interests . A labour force willing to work for $ 20 a hr max would also be a prerequisite . Any takers ?

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by GREGL

The idea is brilliant in principle. Just imagine everybody, a manufacturer utilizing the combined expertise of both manufacturers (forget toyota they would never come to an agreement and why would they?) . With all the doom and gloom around the future of both the mainstays past 2016 bla bla , the possibility of a truly AUSTRALIAN range of vehicles , built without the restraints of overseas owners may actually unite both passionate camps.
The reality these days is we have basically reverted back to the days CKD imports of the 50's on a different scale . It was only till the 70's that either manufacturer was given a free riegn to design their own bodies . This only lasted for 10 years or so before the noose was tightened again .
All it would take is a investor with a bottomless pit of money and govt. willing to protect his/hers interests . A labour force willing to work for $ 20 a hr max would also be a prerequisite . Any takers ?

Absolutely correct
Toyota goin against a uniformed ,joined at the hip holden and ford
Toyota would still do what they do now, smash em clean out of the park
In the larger scale itll be a minute brand for a minute market and country
Unless every Australian bought one, and not an import,then and only then would it have half a chance against whats comin on ships ,or containers daily
The other issue you mention ,wages,itll be we need to pay this much an hour to compete and youll either work for it ,or you wont
Or they will do what many larger firms do now,no penanlty rates for outside general working hours, be that night shifts or weekends ,and pay a flat rate for a flat 38/40 hour week
To be competitive across the board the pencil needs to be sharpened right up
Its staring down the barell of slave labour,you work for tuppence or you starve

[last fairlane]

Forget Collingwood and Carlton
what about Fitzroy and Brisbane
that produced 3 grand final cups

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by chevypower

If an investment can't be made without subsidies, then it's obviously not a good idea.

Define “subsidy.” For some reason the Australian government is obsessed with “co-investment,” which appears to be a blatant subsidy.
However the sales of our commodities have driven the dollar up, effectively subsidising all imports.
Australian companies pay 30% income tax, FBT, payroll tax, land tax, whereas in some countries key industries pay significantly less. Isn’t that a subsidy?
Many countries have export enhancement programs, often less income tax on goods sold for export. Subsidy again.
Many countries allow their manufacturers to pay their workers a pittance, for working in appalling unsafe factories. That’s also an effective subsidy.
Australia factories are required to comply with contemporary safety and environmental regulations, their competitors are not. Subsidy?
Many countries offer extraordinary tax breaks for R&D, Australia not so much. That’s a subsidy.
Japanese companies came to dominate many industries because for decades their government sold the Yen short to make them more competitive, simply building up trillions in USD reserves. China is now following their example.
Japan then used those reserves to funnel trillions in cheap capital into its industries via their mercantile banks. China has taken that one step further, effectively gifting foreign reserves to its state-owned corporations to fund acquisitions.
In contrast; the Australian Reserve bank only interferes in the currency in extreme circumstances, and generally balances it out shortly thereafter. It does not make reserves available to banks in the same way, and banks are forbidden by law from investing directly in corporations.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Although I think the key to success is shown by Toyota, just a relentless focus on quality and eliminating faults.

That explains why Toyota is the most dominate of the Japanese (car) brands, but not why Japanase companies came to dominate so many industries during the 80’s & 90’s.
Also, and whilst this is not necessarily a detractor of their business model, I have tried to think of a Toyota that I would like to own, and I simply can’t. In taking a very broad (non-“Fordist”) view of the world, there are many desirable cars, but I can’t think of a Toyota where there aren’t better, cheaper, alternatives. Most of their cars are simply boring and bland, they are the “white bread” of the motoring industry.

I recall when the Lexus was launched, one of the motoring mags got together a Merc, a BMW, and a Jaguar enthusiast. They had them compare the Lexus against the comparable Merc, BMW, and Jag, “scientifically” scoring them across different areas related to quality, finish, NVH, etc. The Lexus won, followed by the Merc, with the Jag bringing up the rear.
They then asked each which car they would rather own. Merc guy opted for the Merc, and the BMW & Jag guys both went for the Jaguar. They all ranked the Lexus last because it was “boring and bland.”

If when I get older I need to have an artificial bladder installed, I’d hope it was made by Toyota, but if the old fella needed replacing I’d go for a Ford GT model with stripes.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Define “subsidy.”

When a company receives government (taxpayer) assistance, creating an unfair advantage over companies or products developed completely by private investment.

A tax incentive for investment is NOT a subsidy. It's an incentive for anybody to invest, which may lead to jobs. I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem for reinforcements for products which may end up being a complete failure, and for governments to pick which companies should be helped to compete with others, which can lead to others failing. Eg. the made up "green jobs" just to receive the incentives.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

That explains why Toyota is the most dominate of the Japanese (car) brands, but not why Japanase companies came to dominate so many industries during the 80’s & 90’s.
Also, and whilst this is not necessarily a detractor of their business model, I have tried to think of a Toyota that I would like to own, and I simply can’t. In taking a very broad (non-“Fordist”) view of the world, there are many desirable cars, but I can’t think of a Toyota where there aren’t better, cheaper, alternatives. Most of their cars are simply boring and bland, they are the “white bread” of the motoring industry.

This subject has been discussed recently,but at days end,we can bag Toyota all we like,and they can build the blandest cars ever,as some say ,but they have the runs on the board
They build one of the best off road ,reliable machines ever the cruiser, the hilux has a cult following that many don't understand,a year to year hilux to falcon/commodore ute comparison the hilux will sell quicker,and for more
There better build,and hold their money leap years better than holden or ford
Bland or not, money is money and to the billions who buy new Toyotas there on a winner from the start
Oh and blant,the hilux dual cab 4x4 is still the biggest selling of the dual cab 4x4s sold ever, still top the sales charts month after month,year after year,so does the cruisers, camry,there always at the forefront of sales charts, been like that for years,if not longer
Theres money and good sales in quality "White goods" cars, just other brands cant see the forest for the trees
Ford and holden are sliding into closure because they are building limited cars for limited markets,the white goods maker will be making their bland cars years after ford and holden close

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Theres money and good sales in quality "White goods" cars, just other brands cant see the forest for the trees
Ford and holden are sliding into closure because they are building limited cars for limited markets,the white goods maker will be making their bland cars years after ford and holden close

Are you referring to Ford and Holden/Chevrolet's Aussie operations or their global ones?

Both GM and Fomoco (moreso Fomoco) have made some smart decisions recently and are chasing the 'white goods' sales that Toyota was previously unrivalled in (except they're doing it with exciting products). I think in years to come the automotive landscape will level right out between Toyota, Ford, GM, Hyundai and Kia. Whether the local heroes (Falcon and Commodore) are still around is another matter.