The empire strikes back (another hypothetical) - Page 3

flappist · 22-03-2009, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Any "sprint" derivative that Ford would release would be sticker and (maybe) suspension only... there's no way the powers would allow ford to cannibalise FPV's sales with power and performance upgrades over the std range...
The XR series is an entry level performance range for the budget conscious and will remain that way.

That is not the point of the hypothetical.

Ford DO release it. It IS as described. Would anyone but it?

Form the poll it would appear to not be a flop but then keyboards are not wallets......

4Vman · 22-03-2009, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Form the poll it would appear to not be a flop but then keyboards are not wallets......

EXACTLY....

Envi XR8 · 22-03-2009, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The GT "Brand" is THE most recognised and most powerful "brand" in the "Australian built" performance segment... Bar None.
People buy GT's for a whole host in intengiable emotive reasons.

true, but the question was, hypothetically speaking, if an XR was released with the same GT engine etc at a price point 10k less than the GT, what would you buy. I don't think it's unreasonable that given these guidelines, an XR Sprint would outsell the GT regardless of the GT 'Brand" 10 grand is 10 grand.

FPV8U · 22-03-2009, 07:04 PM

What if FPV were to drop the GTP, GT moves to it's place (6/4 Brembo's, Better seats, Ect) and the XR8 Sprint became a FPV "Enhanced" Model?

No body kit differences, just Wheels, Brakes, Engine?

That would definitly sell me.

mrbaxr6t · 22-03-2009, 07:18 PM

I read the entire thread and it seems the argument can be boiled down to this question : do you think the GT has become bloated and needs to go back to its roots?

judging by the support for the sprint - I would say many think the GT has.

Envi XR8 · 22-03-2009, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

I read the entire thread and it seems the argument can be boiled down to this question : do you think the GT has become bloated and needs to go back to its roots?

judging by the support for the sprint - I would say many think the GT has.

agreed, 110%!!!

Scott · 22-03-2009, 07:35 PM

I'll spend the $10k for the seats, body kit, ICC, interior trims & dash etc etc.

Compared to many other model delineations, $10k buys a lot in this case.

4Vman · 22-03-2009, 07:40 PM

GT buyers will mostly always be GT buyers, performance, appointments and aesthetics aside remove that badge and you remove probably the single biggest reason people buy them... History tells the story..

ieatsports_cars · 22-03-2009, 09:39 PM

well it depends is it going to be a limited number of these cars

Whitey-AMG · 22-03-2009, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

I read the entire thread and it seems the argument can be boiled down to this question : do you think the GT has become bloated and needs to go back to its roots?

judging by the support for the sprint - I would say many think the GT has.

No not at all.........

The issue here is price.
The GT badge commands at lot of respect and consequently a lot of extra $$$$..........always has, and always should.

It would be suicide for FPV to do a cut price GT in order to make it a cheap - accesible to all muscle car. GT buyers demand the best that FPV have to throw at this platform. Seats , Wheels , Premium brakes, and premium appointments.........they all cost big $$$$. Leather seats and a 6 stack CD player with colour ICC hardly makes the GT bloated ????????

The sprint is basically the anorexic version of the GT..........
You still get some of the preformance without the heavy duty hardware. The tight ^&& package if you will. Less appointments and cut price tends to translate to "a more focused package" for some......whatever..........

In reality, it just makes for a more accesible package to the buyer without the extra coin..........simple.

Bearman · 23-03-2009, 09:05 AM

That's a tough call, the XR8 Sprint would be very hard to go past, that's for sure but there is the magic of those two letters "GT". Everyone knows this and is instantly recognizable.

My heart and keyboard says "YES" to the GT, my wallet says "I'm keeping the XR6 until 2023!!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by XA351COUPE

Will FPVs ever become a classic....??

OK, Blinkers firmly in place and Flame suit on....

I'd say yes, or at least a strong maybe.

The thing to remember about X series GT's is that Ford made as many as they could sell, the build numbers were never set or limited. Over time we have today's survivors at the car shows, within car clubs and tucked away in sheds and garages.

Don't hear much about EB and EL GT's, values appear to be holding up and I'd say a good number have survived. These were a limited numbers build from the outset and I believe it is because of that not many were ever pressed into daily driver use. I reckon these will become a classic.

As for the B and F series it'll be interesting to see how many survive the next 30 years. Again, like the X series, build numbers are not limited. I see a reasonable number on the road and time will claim a few. The thing is, they will not rust out and a lot of owners are concious of the status of X series GT's now so will take more care to keep them safe. I predict a greater percentage of these GT's will be around in 30 years than the X series.

Sorry, off topic.

mrbaxr6t · 23-03-2009, 01:32 PM

I think people are missing it - the GT heritage is a racecar, racecars don't have ICC or ABS or power windows - these increase the weight of the car lighter is faster - If a GT was made that was lets say a V8SC with heater, aircon and a stereo and the money saved on the other stuff was spent on greater performance you would see me driving it. It would be a truly incredible automobile and fun as all hell to drive like the phase 3 was and many here believe still is. The GT nameplate I feel has been swallowed by the yuppie market who want all the bling bling things like ipod integration traction/cruise control electric windows and all that junk. the GT as great as they were and still are has never been the same since the mighty phase 3. But as stated people will still buy them because of the heritage, but I feel not one "GT" since the phase 4 has been deserving of the "GT" badge.

Before you flame me think about it.

flappist · 23-03-2009, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

I think people are missing it - the GT heritage is a racecar, racecars don't have ICC or ABS or power windows - these increase the weight of the car lighter is faster - If a GT was made that was lets say a V8SC with heater, aircon and a stereo and the money saved on the other stuff was spent on greater performance you would see me driving it. It would be a truly incredible automobile and fun as all hell to drive like the phase 3 was and many here believe still is. The GT nameplate I feel has been swallowed by the yuppie market who want all the bling bling things like ipod integration traction/cruise control electric windows and all that junk. the GT as great as they were and still are has never been the same since the mighty phase 3. But as stated people will still buy them because of the heritage, but I feel not one "GT" since the phase 4 has been deserving of the "GT" badge.

Before you flame me think about it.

GT is an acronym for Gran Turismo which means great tourism or good touring.

Whitey-AMG · 23-03-2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

I think people are missing it - the GT heritage is a racecar, racecars don't have ICC or ABS or power windows - these increase the weight of the car lighter is faster - If a GT was made that was lets say a V8SC with heater, aircon and a stereo and the money saved on the other stuff was spent on greater performance you would see me driving it. It would be a truly incredible automobile and fun as all hell to drive like the phase 3 was and many here believe still is. The GT nameplate I feel has been swallowed by the yuppie market who want all the bling bling things like ipod integration traction/cruise control electric windows and all that junk. the GT as great as they were and still are has never been the same since the mighty phase 3. But as stated people will still buy them because of the heritage, but I feel not one "GT" since the phase 4 has been deserving of the "GT" badge.

Before you flame me think about it.

I don't think anyone should be flamed for their opinion.......good on you for voicing it !!!!!!!

The issue with the whole GT thing is that everyone's expectations of the GT philosophy are different. Originally , the whole GT thing in AUS was to provide a high performance version of the cooking model. The homologated " race" versions were tagged as " HO ".........

So in essence, the GT is the high performance XR8.....just like the XYGT was the high performance "road" version of the XYGS and the XBGT was to the XBGS etc etc...........

As a High performance Grand Tourer........the current crop of GT's do the job admirably. I don't think that anyone in their right mind would want to pay 65 - 80K for a car without the simple luxuries like a stereo , ABS , power steer , power windows etc etc............remember that most of these cars also double up as family hacks as well as weekend track warriors.

A sprint version would really only serve to sell more of the same engine and chassis platform , minus the body kit , wheels and brake upgrade. It would be more of a cost cutting exercise rather than a focused race car approach.......
More of a XYGS as opposed to an XYGT exercise......but then it would still have to compare favourably with the XR8......and I don't think the current market has a bandwidth big enough to accomodate all 3 types of cars......

The other issue is that a cut price GT ( sprint ) may actually perform worse overall than the XR8 !!!!!!!!

Remember , there would be XR8 , Sprint , GT , GTP , GTE...........too much of a good thing ??????

4Vman · 23-03-2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

I think people are missing it - the GT heritage is a racecar, racecars don't have ICC or ABS or power windows - these increase the weight of the car lighter is faster - If a GT was made that was lets say a V8SC with heater, aircon and a stereo and the money saved on the other stuff was spent on greater performance you would see me driving it. It would be a truly incredible automobile and fun as all hell to drive like the phase 3 was and many here believe still is. The GT nameplate I feel has been swallowed by the yuppie market who want all the bling bling things like ipod integration traction/cruise control electric windows and all that junk. the GT as great as they were and still are has never been the same since the mighty phase 3. But as stated people will still buy them because of the heritage, but I feel not one "GT" since the phase 4 has been deserving of the "GT" badge.

Before you flame me think about it.

There's GT and there's GTHO.... the same DNA but very different beasts...
The current GT is everything the classic GT's were: modern (for their time) premium prestige performance vehicles... "Grand Tourers"
The GT interior was Fairmont spec or top shelf, nothing's changed, in fact its improved.
The difference today is we no longer need homologation specials to participate in our premier racing category, hence why the GTHO existed in the 70's, but is no longer needed now...

Nikked · 23-03-2009, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The current GT is everything the classic GT's were: modern (for their time) premium prestige performance vehicles... "Grand Tourers"
The GT interior was Fairmont spec or top shelf, nothing's changed.

And alot people forget this...

People look at the modern car with a historical mindset. And some things from history can never be remade in a moden car, such as emotion...

Bossxr8 · 23-03-2009, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

I think people are missing it - the GT heritage is a racecar, racecars don't have ICC or ABS or power windows - these increase the weight of the car lighter is faster - If a GT was made that was lets say a V8SC with heater, aircon and a stereo and the money saved on the other stuff was spent on greater performance you would see me driving it. It would be a truly incredible automobile and fun as all hell to drive like the phase 3 was and many here believe still is. The GT nameplate I feel has been swallowed by the yuppie market who want all the bling bling things like ipod integration traction/cruise control electric windows and all that junk.

None of that stuff even existed back in the 60's, so its a bit strange to say the old GT's never had that stuff. Of course they didn't, nothing back then did. But the GT's would have had things considered luxury back then ie. heaters, a radio, reading lights, carpets, optional ac, sunroof etc.

The way I see it the GT's are as well specified now as they were back then in terms of luxury appointments during their time periods.

fordlova8 · 23-03-2009, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

please don't post "But I can get a new XYZ for 5 shillings threepence ha'penny from Cheap Fords'r'us".

i just wet myself

mrbaxr6t · 24-03-2009, 01:52 PM

you have to admit tho that the more modern GTs are fluffed up with all the stuff adding that stuff increases the overall weight of the car if you ask me the GT needs to look more like a V8 supercar instead of the way it does currently. Making any car lighter without doing anything else to it will make it perform better as you are improving the power to weight ratio. I believe the current GT should be lightened up without removing the bling off it how else is this possible? Sorry but it needs to look more like a V8SC even if you retain all the bling thats what GTs were and was why people began buying them. Because they looked exactly like the racecar. I firmly believe a GT that resembles a V8sc more closely would entice future buyers in the same way it did in the 60's - 70's.

Why is everybody so against this idea anyway? GT should look like a racecar like it did in the 60's & 70's

flappist · 24-03-2009, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

Why is everybody so against this idea anyway? GT should look like a racecar like it did in the 60's & 70's

No, in the 60s and 70s the race cars WERE road cars. Why do you think it is so easy to make a XY GT replica from a XY 500?

A holden V8SC and a ford V8SC are almost identical except for the engine and bodykit and the engines have no road equivalent at at all, they are specifically designed from the ground up to V8SC rules, not conversions.

There is racing in Australia for current road cars, the 12hr is an example. It is not popular with the media and unfortunately tends to be dominated by vehicles other than ford and holden.

View Poll Results: Which do you choose?
XR8 Sprint $56,000	68	51.13%
FPV GT $66,000	65	48.87%
Voters: 133. You may not vote on this poll