Memories

jphanna · 23-01-2009, 11:01 AM

If you remember the 1980’s, ford was doing to the market what Toyota has been doing for quite a while now, dominating. They had 23% of market, just like Toyota have now. Holden was on the verge of bankruptcy (bailed out by GM), and Toyota cars were a joke in the 80’s.

The XE/XF falcon was untouchable, against the VB/C/H/K/L commodores, most households second car was a Laser. Even the Telstar was very popular. I often wonder how and when they lost the plot from such a commanding position.

Bushbasher · 23-01-2009, 11:35 AM

The EA was a dog when it first came out, it handled badly, had quality control issues and there was a real problem with the tops of the doors sucking out at speed that required a rethink. Having said that, the VN had it's share of problems too but they were more mechanical than structural. Joe average took it for a drive and there was no wind noise from the door tops flexing, it handled better and the quality control was better so they bought a crappydoore even though the falcon was bigger, faster, more reliable and better styled inside, and lets' not forget the lack of a bent 8 still. EB fixed most of the issues and by ED they had it right but by then the horse had bolted.........

Fairlane · 23-01-2009, 11:59 AM

Few things.

End of Australian Laser & Telstar production which were no longer hugely profitable to build, plus Ford eyed off the property value (Changing the name to Focus in 2001 was pretty dumb too) . Falcon now had 3 full sized competitors, VN Commodore & in a few short years V6 Magna & V6 Camry Vienta.

European cars became cheaper, and Ford did a few stupid moves. Mondeo to replace Telstar, Tauras to confuse buyers, & Ford held onto the Festiva when the world had moved onto better supermini's. Holden ran a few massive marketing campaign in the 90s to flog the Barina, Vectra, VS Commodore flogging its Australianess.

And the final killer for Ford's maket leading postion, the whole AU Falcon project. Its was too late for starters about 14 months too late, if it was released prior to or concurrent with VT Commodore and with slightly less polarising styling it would have set Ford up right into the 21st century with plenty of cash to wipe Commodore out.

BENT_8 · 23-01-2009, 12:02 PM

Lol...dont take this the wrong way, the reason Ford dropped the ball is parked in your driveway.

Holden might have been financially crippled then but they were certainly giving the blue oval a 'touching' up on the track and thats always been a strong marketing tool in this country.

Having driven a number of Rolla's from the 80's, i hardly believe they were a joke, infact i see the SV21 Camry as one of the most reliable, virtually indestructible 4 bangers from the era.
We always used them as loan cars when i worked for Toyota right up until 03.

jphanna · 23-01-2009, 12:25 PM

The word Reliability and Toyota go hand in hand. no one can dispute that. I had a 95 corolla for exactly 10 years and the only thing that broke on it, was the lug in the interior to open the door. cost $2.00, and they toyota fitted it for nothing. Apart from the 4WD market, they had coronas till 1986 and until the twin cam corollas, very ordinary cars to drive.

I have to admit the amount of money my dad pumped into the EA defied logic. for some reason he loved that car more than any other car (he wasnt short on cash and could have upgraded anytime), and he never once questioned why he was pouring so much into it. Most other people (aust public) knew it was a lemon and the sales and reputation suffered....

BENT_8 · 23-01-2009, 12:36 PM

[QUOTE=jphanna]The word Reliability and Toyota go hand in hand. no one can dispute that. I had a 95 corolla for exactly 10 years and the only thing that broke on it, was the lug in the interior to open the door. cost $2.00, and they toyota fitted it for nothing. Apart from the 4WD market, they had coronas till 1986 and until the twin cam corollas, very ordinary cars to drive.

Cressida?
Not a bad car, especially the 4th gen(88-93) way better than the Skyline, more kw(140) than the EA/VN.

From Wiki;
In Australia, the Cressida was sold from April 1977 to February 1993, when it was replaced by the Vienta (and later the Avalon). Many people bemoaned the fact that the Vienta was front-wheel drive, because rear-wheel drive is popular for large sedans in the Australian market.

Today, the Cressida is starting to become a popular tuning car around the world, due to being rear-wheel drive and having a fairly powerful engine. Most often, the Cressida is now used in drifting competitions or street racing with an aftermarket suspension and turbocharged Toyota engines. Overall, the cars are very versatile, solid, and reliable, exhibiting capabilities and characteristics found on most modern sport sedans sold today.

dusty86 · 23-01-2009, 03:08 PM

and what about toyota sprinters

jphanna · 23-01-2009, 03:13 PM

The sprinter is to Japan what the GT/GTS/XU1 etc, is to Aust - Legend. correct me if im wrong (will get flamed for sure) but the sprinter has been credited with the beginning of the drift movement as far as the Japs are concerned.

**cs123** · 23-01-2009, 03:26 PM

This is off topic but back in the 70s Toyota made some pretty fast cars, you just couldn't buy them here. For instance the corolla could be had with a 2tg engine, twin cam with twin 40mm side drafts; 5 speed box and rear wheel drive. They were quick for their time and TRD had a bunch of hot up parts for them

Bobman · 23-01-2009, 03:37 PM

The EL Falcon still outsold the Commodore at the time though.

EF/EL were quite successful models.

**TUF_302** · 23-01-2009, 03:44 PM

I think our main problems were the EA The au and the lack of a v8 for some years

jphanna · 23-01-2009, 03:47 PM

While the XF was around, holden threw 2 models VK/VL at it with no luck, but they also had the 'small' lasers whipping up the small car market. by the time the 'BIG' laser model came out, around the same time as the 'famed' EA, they lost the overall lead in the market overnight. they may have eventually pegged back the commodore, but losing the small car market, is what cost em. they havnt even come close to the old small laser sales in 20 years. i wonder what they (ford execs), think when they once had 23% of the market and holden on its knees.

Kieron · 23-01-2009, 04:24 PM

I believe that was the case too Bobman. I think the EA was in fact a great seller too, despite being dodgy.

What always has to be remembered with FalCom sales is the vast majority of them are to companies, circa 70% AND Holden/Ford are essentially the Commodore/Falcon car companies.
To get an idea, if Falcon sold 6,000 cars/month back then, thats 72,000 per year with circa 50,000 of that to fleets and 22,000 to us punters.

So where am I going with this? Holden improved their product in the 90's and were extremely aggressive in marketing to fleets, in particular with the VT which was up against an aging EL and later the unloved AU.

The other big feather in Fords 80's cap was the Laser and as Fairlane mentioned, local production was dropped and it became an import.

The Telstar was on OK seller but nothing special. It was in fact replaced by the forgotten Ford Corsair (Nissan Pintara) in base form, the Telstar TX5 was sold at the same time as an upmarket model.

Something the late great Geoff Polites also recognised was the lull in Ford fans. His thinking was motor racing in the 70's bought Ford private buyers in the 80's but when Ford dropped out of racing in the 80's, no new younger Ford fans where being 'created' for the future. This was why he threw money into V8's and got the then younger Lowndes into the blue oval, he once said he wanted more Fords stolen which of course really meant he wanted more people desiring Fords.

More Ford fans = more demand for Falcon = better resale values = fleets looking at total operating costs taking Falcon seriously again.

dusty86 · 23-01-2009, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jphanna

The sprinter is to Japan what the GT/GTS/XU1 etc, is to Aust - Legend. correct me if im wrong (will get flamed for sure) but the sprinter has been credited with the beginning of the drift movement as far as the Japs are concerned.

NOT just good for drifting, they are a great car to set up to grip well around corners... main reason being their low kerb weight and simple set up which makes them still a great car to drive

Iggypoppin' · 23-01-2009, 06:08 PM

the EA and VN was plagued by reliability probems, but having driven both cars at some stage, the VN was probably a little better(compared to the EA i drove). that being said the EA wasnt a bad car, so to speak, it was just rushed onto the market, as was the VN. another silly idea was no V8, and the next silly idea was AU. while AU is a decent, reliable car, no-one knew that at the time, and lucky for ford that BA really took off and changed the perception many people had of ford.
looks like only now they are starting to take back the market with such good cars.
note: many magazine review articles call either the F6 or G6Et the "best car ever made in australia" so at least we know the cars are getting the reviews they deserve...but not the advertising sadly.

MarkIV · 23-01-2009, 06:27 PM

The other thing that happened around that time was the destruction of the Capri by the ABC and other media. They did a real hatchet job on this car and many people who had never driven a Ford were brainwashed about lack of quality and Ford's inadequate rsponese etc.

I know people (not necessarily Holden fans) who simply won't touch a Ford.

When I ask why they have no real answer - its almost a subconcious thing.

The Territory has gone some way towards redeeming Ford but has not really improved their overall position.

Fingers crossed for the new Fiesta maybe - and the Aussie built Focus?

Iggypoppin' · 23-01-2009, 06:30 PM

no, some of them say "its a ford"...and im like...and? it sure is, whats your reason? repeat. i tell them to learn the meanings of sentences before answering questions. they always look confused. i feel like PUNCHING those sorts of people, whose only reason is to state that the reason they hate something is because it is.

XR6_190 · 23-01-2009, 07:19 PM

I think there are quite a few reasons for their drop in presence.

1. DETROIT.
Between their money problems, and their selfish decisions, including trying to flog the ungainly Taurus here, refusing to allow Falcon to be built in LHD to replace the ancient Crown Victoria/ Grand Marquis/ Town Car.

2. POOR QUALITY.
You can blame the EA, but it isn't just the EA, you can't tell me the whole E series head gasket problems hasn't caused ripples affecting peoples perception on Ford quality, then there is the Poor paint quality currently used, XD,E,F door handles, EF/L headlights discolouration, B series Diff and handbrake woes, the list goes on, they are getting better at building them, but the word is out, and it doesn't matter how reliable the rest of the range is.

3. POOR DEALERSHIPS/ SERVICE DEPARTMENTS
I know that this sounds like the usual cop out, but think about it, when you are buying a new car, and don't know what you want, just a decent small car, and walk into a few local dealerships, first Ford, you take a look at a Focus, like the look of it but nobody comes to talk to you, then you go nest door to a Toyota dealership, take a look at a corolla, then a dealer comes out, treats you well and offers you a good deal, you have heard great things about Corollas being reliable and holding value, so that's what you buy.

4.CURRENT MODEL LINEUP.
There isn't really anything wrong with the current Fords, but it's more along the lines of whats missing, Toyota (current market leader) have got 13 different model lines that basically gives them something for everyone (except the waning enthusiasts market). Now Ford only have 9 model lines, they don't have anything to combat the Rav4, Prado, Tarago, Land Cruiser etc. There is no way that they can compete with Toyota, with out the same amount of product variation.

**buggerlugs** · 23-01-2009, 08:20 PM

The Pommy Ford Transit was an absolute lemon. especially the turbo diesels. They used to have regular segments on A Current Affair about its reliability. The AU Falcon. The most ugliest car Ford ever produced IMO...................

Auslandau · 23-01-2009, 08:37 PM

EA's main problem was the poxy little 3.2 .... that they stuck in the very early batch. They were released not ready for the market with on going updates until series 11 was released 12 months which did fix everything and did make it a very very good car. Proberly too late to the EA to ED.

I had an '88 EA, smashed it bad within 3 days with 100k's on the clock (setting the radio dials), got it fixed and drove it till it had 300,000k's with only services. Since that car I always liked them. They did sell crap loads of them though and by the time the EF came out, FORD was back on top of Holden ......

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Gobes32 · 24-01-2009, 08:43 AM

How about this scenario......

A lot of people began to trade their e series and AU's in on Mazda 3, Corolla, Camry etc. They receive 5 grand for their 3 yr old, 30,000kms Falcon. Their corolla uses half the fuel, is super reliable and when they trade it in a couple of years later, they retain a lot more of their initial purchase value. What do you think they are going to buy the next time. The FG could be the greatest car in the world, it means nothing if you have vindicated your target market.

jphanna · 24-01-2009, 03:47 PM

For some reason in the 80's, Ford was the 'safe' (popularity/resale) brand, both in small cars and family cars, definately after the EA, maybe after the AU, but they lost that confidence in the community, that holden capitalised on. All those years from 99-2003 when the AU got flogged on the track because of dodgy rules which favoured the aero package on the holdens, also contributed to holden having more of a 'safe', winner feel like ford used to have.

Dezza · 24-01-2009, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auslandau

EA's main problem was the poxy little 3.2 .... that they stuck in the very early batch. They were released not ready for the market with on going updates until series 11 was released 12 months which did fix everything and did make it a very very good car. Proberly too late to the EA to ED.

I had an '88 EA, smashed it bad within 3 days with 100k's on the clock (setting the radio dials), got it fixed and drove it till it had 300,000k's with only services. Since that car I always liked them. They did sell crap loads of them though and by the time the EF came out, FORD was back on top of Holden ......

Agreed. I bought mine with 148,000kms on the clock in 2002 and smashed it 9 days later. We fixed it and it's now up to 281,000kms after almost 7 years of ownership. It's had a few problems here and there but mostly it's been a great car and I still love driving it. It hasn't had an easy life either, but it just keeps going. People forget that Fords sold well all through the e-series years. Even the EA, despite it's poor (and often misguided) reputation sold well. Dropping the V8 cost Ford badly as many fans moved to Holden. This also affected younger buyers as you could get VK-VN V8s for cheap, but EB V8s were still a fair bit pricier (not so anymore).

mrbaxr6t · 24-01-2009, 05:30 PM

I read this and agree with most statements, a friends' parents bought a then brand new shiny ea s pack with a 5 speed manual, the thing was an animal difficult to drive liked to light the bags at the lights in the wet was a skinned cat it went truly awesome, but when parts fall off ON THE DRIVE HOME from the dealership it completely destroys customer confidence in the vehicle and leaves one scratching their heads this model as good as it was had quite alot of issues like this - don't get me wrong they are great cars, but were and still are tarred with the "anything but one of them" brush. What keeps resale values high has been demand from young drivers for one, and they want commys not falcons. This was great for me I could have a great rocksolid falcon that belonged to some old dude second owner for chump change, but my mates ribbed me constantly telling me to sell and buy a commy.

Now the AU despite how they look and the fact that you need to get an XR to get one that has a nice looking nose they are TANKS and made brilliant taxis I mean comeon 900,000 kms on an uncracked motor/box? Taxi buyers loved their reliability, never broke down loved LPG and seemingly could do 1 million kms before they are stuffed. This is why I bought one I needed a car that would keep me mobile till the end of time so I bought an AU which was cheap given its age and the like. but the general public wanted looks not bullet proof reliability, had it only looked a little more like a BA fords forune would be very different today.

now lets think about now and the future there is much speculation they will go to a v6 front wheel drive platform THIS WILL screw them harder than an EA followed by an AU followed by another EA. Australians DO NOT WANT front wheel drive, the V6 engine they are proposing to use sucks hard compared to the straight six in falcons today. It is not as powerful not as economical and not as reliable. Ford US imho have been spanked time and time again by what we are building over here. They are american and nobody does it better than them - just ask em. So to stop us spanking them they will reduce the quality of the aussie product to keep that "we do it best - here". Why you think they gave us the Taurus? Its American so its better than Falcon. Sales said otherwise didn't they. So Ford US were delivered another painful black eye by Ford Aus.

Ford are you hearing me We don't want v6 and we don't want front wheel drive - if you push this upon us you will hurt bad.

Iggypoppin' · 24-01-2009, 07:46 PM

they ditched the plans to use a V6 there was a thread regarding this a while back, theyre going to keep makeing I6's

Bossxr8 · 26-01-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLWXR6

they ditched the plans to use a V6 there was a thread regarding this a while back, theyre going to keep makeing I6's

For the time being. Nothing stopping them using it if there is an all new Falcon in 2013, which is when I think they will make the switch, because they can design an all new car from the ground up to take the new engine, unlike the FG that required a lot of work to get the V6 fitted. ie. Crash testing, packaging, NVH etc.