Politicians, car-makers feel the heat as governments scale back on local cars

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by MethodX

other countries protect their car industries.
Japan, Malaysia.

Why shouldnt we?

Exactly. Where do Fords sales taxes go, as well as the taxes of the workers. Free trade is a crock if your not prepared to back your own companies.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by MethodX

other countries protect their car industries.
Japan, Malaysia.
Why shouldnt we?

Why benefit an inferior product?

Why force the public to buy an inferior product trhough taxing better products?

The motor industry has had plenty of government handouts over the years, if they haven't worked out the consumer preferences and supply and demand of the Australian market, or developing best practices then they only have themselves to blame.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Why benefit an inferior product?

Why force the public to buy an inferior product trhough taxing better products?

The motor industry has had plenty of government handouts over the years, if they haven't worked out the consumer preferences and supply and demand of the Australian market, or developing best practices then they only have themselves to blame.

While things are changing, on Holdens side at the moment anyway. Remember that other manufacturers are building these cars for a world wide market. Currently the falcon is Oz only, and has a budget to reflect that.

Exports for the Falcon cant come soon enough IMO, if they dont, the GM will kill the Falcon without even trying.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by MethodX

other countries protect their car industries.
Japan, Malaysia.

Why shouldnt we?

.

At the risk of repeating myself, the government appears to be saying it would happily purchase locally built cars IF THEY WERENT ALL 2 TONNE BARGES WITH 4 LITRE DONKS.

Let me put it this way.

Why do you think our manufacturers have been so complacent? i.e. The "all new" pushrod V8 from holden. Heck, even the Ford Boss V8 isnt exactly cutting edge. Big RWD sedans with gas guzzling donks and similar sized SUVs.

Industry protection breeds complacency.

[ltd]

Partially agree but remember, the prius isn't that environmentally friendly anyway. Add to that, the fact that the batteries require replacing every three years and the fact that the disposal of batteries is an environmental catastrophe waiting to happen and you have to ask the question, is there that much more merit behind a hybrid?

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by ltd

Add to that, the fact that the batteries require replacing every three years

Every 10-15 years.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

.

At the risk of repeating myself, the government appears to be saying it would happily purchase locally built cars IF THEY WERENT ALL 2 TONNE BARGES WITH 4 LITRE DONKS.

Let me put it this way.

Why do you think our manufacturers have been so complacent? i.e. The "all new" pushrod V8 from holden. Heck, even the Ford Boss V8 isnt exactly cutting edge. Big RWD sedans with gas guzzling donks and similar sized SUVs.

Industry protection breeds complacency.

Aussie cars have come a long way in the last say 10 years, no they arent perfect, but what do you expect?
Mercedes levels of perfection?

Whats wrong with pushrods?
A pushrod engine with well designes heads can be just as efficient as an ohc one, and cheaper to make and smaller.
ohv and ohc were invented only a few years apart anyway.

The governmant should promote LPG
would create a lot fo jobs, conversions.

As for industry protection breeds complacency.
Well lower it enough to keep them honest, not open slather.

[Vdouw]

The reason the gov doesn't use LPG is because they will throw an excise on it soon enough so whats the point.

Plus there is no need for every single poli to drive around all by the lonesome in a falcon when they could use less petrol in an Camary (which is built in australia any hoo) Like it has been said many a time in this thread and i believe we should all take this in... Government is also a business and for a business to survive they need to tender all the products and buy the best product for job thats required. (Note: F6 highway patrol here in QLD, Falcon and Commodore utes rampant in government fleets, Army uses all holden and fords for their sedan/ute needs and all the other 'white fleet' is Toyota.)

Also as has been stated on the last page that there is always faults in big organisations and the Government is the largest. Thus there is always huge issues due to incompantance, and brown nosing by employees who truly are the minority which destroys the majority. Solution... thats a whole other issue.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Aussie cars have come a long way in the last say 10 years, no they arent perfect, but what do you expect?
Mercedes levels of perfection?

Well when the South African built Mercedes are better, I think it certainly can say something. If the Australian products are going to have any luck on the world market, then they will have to shape up, get the product together, appear to provide some levels of quality and reliability.[/QUOTE]

[Polyal]

Where its built has SFA to do with it. A cars build quality comes back to materials, initial design and manufacturing methods.

[fordOwner]

I hope the Police force does not out source its cars to an overseas vehicle maker.

[Vdouw]

http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zz1uw4.jpg ... check this image out. Its from a wheels issue and states that the Vic gov helped ford out so that we can have our Orion.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Vdouw

http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zz1uw4.jpg ... check this image out. Its from a wheels issue and states that the Vic gov helped ford out so that we can have our Orion.

The Government has helped the lical manufactures for years, it was apart of the deal with the four in Oz so they could drop import tarrifs.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Aussie cars have come a long way in the last say 10 years, no they arent perfect, but what do you expect?
Mercedes levels of perfection?

Que? You mean you want them to go DOWN to Mercedes levels of perfection?

http://www.topgear.com/content/carsu...ures/08/2.html

[sleekism]

Why does everybody keep saying the Government is a business?

The Government is a not a business! We pay taxes so the Government can offer a service but lately I've been asking where all the tax money goes.

I pay a shitload in income tax and receive no centrelink benefits or the like so what am I exactly paying taxes to the Federal Government for???

The State Government pays for the roads as well as the council and they get their money from payroll tax, GST and rates.

Where is all my income taxes going?

A war in Iraq and Afghanistan that we are losing and has nothing to do with us which is also diverting troops away from the problem of our Pacific neighbours collapsing and a violent Indonesia right on our doorstep that wants us dead?

The Government should prop up local car makers they should force all Government departments to buy only Australian made cars and make the purchase of an Australian made car tax deductable.

Why the hell would the local makers be complacent if they were protected they would still have to compete with each other!!!! Holden and Ford have been are at each others throat since God only knows when.

I would gladly see my tax money go to giving people a job down in Melbourne and Adelaide Australia's manufacturing industry is pathetic and we are quickly becoming a nation of checkout operators.

Give kids something to aspire to as well Australia has a desperate shortage of engineers and most other young people I know got into engineering at uni because they dreamt of one day working at Holden and Ford.

There is no such thing as a level playing field either every other nation protects there industry. Why do you think the Falcon hasn't been exported to the middle east yet? It's because Americans would whinge that the workers who make their Crown Victoria would lose their jobs because the Falcon is a better product.

Their is no sense of community in this damn country everybody is only concerned about themselves and dont give a **** about their neighbour who lost his job because Mr ***** bought a ladeda Prius so he can pretend he gives a crap when in reality the Prius is a huge marketing stunt and actually in real terms causes more pollution than a regular car.

And I dont know about anybody else I would rather not have to look at a 100k BMW when I want a large RWD family car with a six cylinder engine.

[merlin]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Why does everybody keep saying the Government is a business?

The Government is a not a business! We pay taxes so the Government can offer a service but lately I've been asking where all the tax money goes.

I pay a shitload in income tax and receive no centrelink benefits or the like so what am I exactly paying taxes to the Federal Government for???

The State Government pays for the roads as well as the council and they get their money from payroll tax, GST and rates.

Where is all my income taxes going?

A war in Iraq and Afghanistan that we are losing and has nothing to do with us which is also diverting troops away from the problem of our Pacific neighbours collapsing and a violent Indonesia right on our doorstep that wants us dead?

The Government should prop up local car makers they should force all Government departments to buy only Australian made cars and make the purchase of an Australian made car tax deductable.

Why the hell would the local makers be complacent if they were protected they would still have to compete with each other!!!! Holden and Ford have been are at each others throat since God only knows when.

I would gladly see my tax money go to giving people a job down in Melbourne and Adelaide Australia's manufacturing industry is pathetic and we are quickly becoming a nation of checkout operators.

Give kids something to aspire to as well Australia has a desperate shortage of engineers and most other young people I know got into engineering at uni because they dreamt of one day working at Holden and Ford.

There is no such thing as a level playing field either every other nation protects there industry. Why do you think the Falcon hasn't been exported to the middle east yet? It's because Americans would whinge that the workers who make their Crown Victoria would lose their jobs because the Falcon is a better product.

Their is no sense of community in this damn country everybody is only concerned about themselves and dont give a **** about their neighbour who lost his job because Mr ***** bought a ladeda Prius so he can pretend he gives a crap when in reality the Prius is a huge marketing stunt and actually in real terms causes more pollution than a regular car.

And I dont know about anybody else I would rather not have to look at a 100k BMW when I want a large RWD family car with a six cylinder engine.

Wars in Iraq do not really have much impact on this...you have to remember there are different levels of government, local, state and federal - you are talking federal issues, when most fleets are local or state.

Governmnet nowdays is run like a business because it is the most efficient, transparent way to run it - it in fact does maximise your tax dollars! Not sure how to explain it any other way...

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Their is no sense of community in this damn country everybody is only concerned about themselves and dont give a **** about their neighbour who lost his job because Mr ***** bought a ladeda Prius so he can pretend he gives a crap when in reality the Prius is a huge marketing stunt and actually in real terms causes more pollution than a regular car.

LOL there is no way I'm going to buy a particular car just because someone might lose their job if I don't. Sorry it would be a nice thought but when I'm spending my money I chose to spend where I like and I see nothing wrong with that.

If it's Aussie and I want it and it is good then by all means I will buy it but only when it suits.

I bet you would still buy a Falcon if it were built in Korea, over a Commodore?

[sleekism]

Nope im afraid i would jump ship if the falcon was made in korea.

Domestic cars are like domestic beer they might not be as fancy as that imported stuff but it does the job and no matter how hard they try the Asians can't make a good beer it's not their fault it's just not their culture.

Why does everybody support Australian sport teams yet when it comes to the local car they become a brand snob. Dude, Kia is not a flash car brand.

Oh and for anybody who thinks running a Government like a business makes it more efficient should actually work in Government and see for themselves.

Your Government worker may be more expensive than a private contractor but the private contractor is after a profit and will cut corners wherever they can.

Go the Blues!!!!!!

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Why does everybody support Australian sport teams yet when it comes to the local car they become a brand snob. Dude, Kia is not a flash car brand.

Because that is what they can get for what they afford or they have no need for a Falcon/Commodore or any of the Aussie cars.

Tell me why the government needs "2 TONNE BARGES WITH 4 LITRE DONKS" as 4.9 EF Futura put it?

A business has to build something that the consumer wants/needs not what they think they should have. The government obviously has no want and/or need for a "2 TONNE BARGE WITH A 4 LITRE DONK". They aint going to take them if they can get what they want elsewhere dude, it's plain logic.

If the Aussie car manufacturers want to keep the business then it is up to them to bring in a model which is want the government is after rather than to try to convince them otherwise.

[new2ford]

Unfortunately this emotive subject is caught up in globalisation and whatever the direction is the govt is wanting to take Australia in this context - not much direction as far as I can see at the moment. Fact is we are going to lose on labour costs to countries like China and Australian attitudes to quality manufacture mean we'll never get production quality up to the Lexus Skoda Honda Mazda level.

Ford is right in focussing on our local design skills which is our greatest value-added automotive product. If Ford (US) could see in its wisdom to make Australia the global design headquarters we could see something going. But one day Falcon is going to be made in China or somesuch country, almost inevitable. Nothing to be ashamed of. Many of the big name German etc manufacturers are doing it. Bits of cars come from all over the place now. Just that we lose jobs here eh?

Really the whole thing needs some vision and direction from our gutless governments but don't hold your breath. Meanwhile more people will keep losing jobs.

If you want to see which way its heading look at at our once completely-local railway rolling stock industry. It was huge and world leading with innovations (like double deck multiple units) being copied in other parts of the world. Then everything turned on its head, multinationals came into the scene and now we have the bodies of Sydney's next gen electric trains being built in China! Meanwhile companies like Alstom, Bombardier and Skoda are well looked after in their own countries (and building double deck electric trains of course!).

For a little insight into what can go on at political level see this extract from Wikipedia:

"Bombardier has been criticized in Canada and abroad over the subsidies it receives from various levels of government. They have been described as beneficiaries of corporate welfare and accused of violating free trade agreements, especially by Brazil. Canada and Bombardier have countered by citing Brazil's direct and indirect subsidies to Embraer, its own major aircraft manufacturer and one of Bombardier's principal competitors in the regional jet market.

The government of Canada provided a large interest rate subsidy for the financing that made possible Bombardier's sale of subway trains to the New York City Subway. Some Canadians objected to such large sums of money being given to a private for-profit company, but the government had argued that the subsidies create many jobs. Recently, Bombardier initiated an engineering design agreement with an Indian company which subsidy critics argue may result in a loss of jobs in Canada."

Sound like a familiar scenario?

[merlin]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Oh and for anybody who thinks running a Government like a business makes it more efficient should actually work in Government and see for themselves.

I do work for the government - I did when it was not run like a business and I watched it lose millions of tax payers dollars. Now that it is run like a business it pulled a nice profit last year which is invested directly back into services for the public...

[Cuey]

This is a good time to raise this issue with an Election around the corner...

Write to your local MP and get them to bring up with issue. It's what they are paid to do

[colossus]

Originally Posted by merlin

I do work for the government - I did when it was not run like a business and I watched it lose millions of tax payers dollars. Now that it is run like a business it pulled a nice profit last year which is invested directly back into services for the public...

Not wrong, the public gets far better value for money when it is run in this fashion.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by merlin

I do work for the government - I did when it was not run like a business and I watched it lose millions of tax payers dollars. Now that it is run like a business it pulled a nice profit last year which is invested directly back into services for the public...

Invested bac into the public?

How is pouring money into a superannuation fund putting money back into the public?

Australia has a massive infastructure problem which is costing tens of billions of dollars every year in lost productivity which the state government is desperately trying to fix while the Feds waste money on new military equipment that doesn't even work.

The Government should not be trying to make a profit it should be investing in the future a surplus doesn't do anything for the people every tax dollar reaped should be spent.

And for those people who object to Government investing in local industry remember that the leading shareholder in the hugely succesful Volkswagen empire is the German Government.

Australia is one of the few lucky countries to have plentiful resources of all metals and fossil fuels, an educated workforce and a history of peace yet we can't maintain a trade surplus in a minerals boom wtf or even be self sufficient.

Australia used to grow and manufacture everything it needs and yet now is becoming the prisonbiatch of the world.

So excuse me if I want to defend Australias last bastion of identity and pride from being destroyed by those who would rather see tax cuts for those earning over 100 grand a year from something designed, built and proudly Australian.

[sleekism]

Oh and another thing the Government spends billions propping up inefficient farmers but nobody says boo about that!!

[MethodX]

Cant rock the National Party vote !!

[EBTom]

What about taxi's? Why not make them compulsary <2L. They account for many of the cars on our roads especially in cities where pollution and smog are more evident.
Really the government cant win, but at the moment when climate change is becoming such an issue, the general public seeing them moving to hybrids or small cars would be much more convincing and could easily sway hippies votes.