Car Trailer Advise

schultzie · 08-01-2012, 06:52 PM

Hey all, It has come time that the ute starts getting towed around on a trailer as i am sick of it getting damaged all the time. so i bought myself a trailer.

I have just finished extending the back of the trailer and put sides on it for strength. What i am not sure about however is how far back i should bring the nose cone, and more so should i just enclose most of the trailer?

i hope that some people here might have a bit of helpful advise.

Sorry if this is not the right section but it was my best educated guess.

Thanks Justin

schultzie · 08-01-2012, 06:58 PM

Also what are peoples thoughts on strapping the car down. eg aired out and strapped down as a dead weight or through the control arm and over the diff at the rear.

Also the last major thing will be new axels and suspension, if height doesnt change much im thinking rocker springs otherwise i will retain the slipper setup. which i believe will still work well.

pcman · 08-01-2012, 08:01 PM

imo the ute is too far forward on the trailer would have HUGE towball weight with it that far forward

id be setting it up like a tow truck with straps over the wheels, along with chocks its not like you would need them to be adjustable as your setting it up for 1 specific vehicle

if your gonna do axles and suspension get twin axle electric brakes with a incab brake controller, i got to tow using my uncles tri axle trailer the electric brakes where simple awesome made towing HEAPS better no having to worry about stopping or putting more strain on the brakes

svo supporter · 08-01-2012, 08:04 PM

Strapping down (or chains is what I use personally) via both front control arms and over the rear diff both sides of the diff centre.

schultzie · 08-01-2012, 08:17 PM

Electric breaks are the only way to go and having a good controller makes all the difference. not to mention stopping sway.

To achieve a 3t legally the trailer will be fitted with, 4wheel electric drum brakes, break away unit, 50mm axels, and 7 leaf springs, thinking now i might make rocker springs work because the trailer will tow perfect regardless of what is on it then.

As for ball weight with the car's front wheels against the front bar there as approximately 180kg on the ball. Everything still needs to be setup still

still need to mount all the lights and paint it along with the suspension as well when i get it...
Will need new tires as well

As for strapping it down i had been strapping through the wheels and it works well, but i think you are right SVO and i will strap down to suit that control arms and each side of the diff

302 XC · 09-01-2012, 08:54 AM

Rocker or load sharing suspension is the only way to go
That way all 4 wheels are on the ground all the time,not unlike double slipper springs were one can lift of the ground
Id be also looking at some front cover,nose cone as the stone chips the ute will cop will be worse on the trailer than drivin it

schultzie · 09-01-2012, 10:05 AM

That is what I was originally asking about at the start of the thread. How far back along the car would you bring the nose cone? I am thinking to the start of the doors? Also potentially bring it back that far at roof height for some storage/ shelter when the car is off the trailer.

I agree rocker suspension is the only way I will go, better life for the trailer too being load sharing ect

tickford2001 · 09-01-2012, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schultzie

As for ball weight with the car's front wheels against the front bar there as approximately 180kg on the ball. Everything still needs to be setup still

From memory the ball weight should be around 7 to 10% of the total weight

superpursuit83 · 09-01-2012, 01:54 PM

I towed my V8 ute last week. Looks about right on the trailer there. Any further back will be too light on ball I reckon.
I just wrap around wheels with a half hitch sort of to anchor it down. Not going anywhere

poppa smurf · 09-01-2012, 02:03 PM

ball weight should be approximately 10% of total weight of trailer/car combination.....no good saying the ball weight is around 180 kilos without knowing the all up weight

this could be useful http://www.haymanreese.com.au/determiningweights.htm

also watch the "pendulum effect" and overhang regulations!

Mr Hardware · 09-01-2012, 02:06 PM

$50k 1.8tonne car on a rusty 20-yo trailer that looks too small?

What could possibly go wrong!

Mr Hardware · 09-01-2012, 02:07 PM

Oh and I put it to you that the cost of towing in extra fuel and strain on the tow vehicle could be put back into the ford for repairs for damage incurred in just driving it with change to spare

302 XC · 09-01-2012, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

$50k 1.8tonne car on a rusty 20-yo trailer that looks too small?

What could possibly go wrong!

Ouch !!!

But definately right

Trevor 57 · 09-01-2012, 04:21 PM

I tow a XE race car (with a big old heavy Clevo in it) all over the place, have someone off to the side as you load it and when the trailer and tow car about as level as they can be then that is it, obviously the front of the trailer/rear of the car should always be down a little bit.

As far as tying it down, the wheels is the best way, we run strap through the mags, one on the front wheels forward and one of the back wheels backwards, you can strap each wheel down. It is best to tie the wheels down as the suspension still works.

**ebxr8240** · 09-01-2012, 06:46 PM

YEP I find tying the wheels and let the body move a little on its suspension..
On a trailer dedicated to one car I've welded brackets for tyres to fit into...

BTW towing with weight on ball or front of trailer is much safer than having
too much weight the other way.. At the back...
This is ONE QUICK way of promoting sway...
I borrowed a car trailer to pick up son's caged and tubbed MK1 Cortina ..
From the other side of Melbourne..We live in Penrith NSW..
The axles were fitted in the middle...
I couldn't drive over 75 KPH with trailer empty...

When we finally got the Cortina on the trailer.. With NO engine and big heavy 9" in the rear..
The balance made it worse !!! We put as much weight in the front and tied Cortina as close to front as possible..
Even then over 80KPH was dangerous.. Requiring heaps of concentration keeping steering wheel as straight as possible to prevent sway..

I fitted new rocker system to my own trailer with suspension offset towards the rear... It was always a good towing trailer...
Even better now... $300 odd on eBay....
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/6-leaf-Ta...item484385a20f
Plus new Ford hubs...

How far back the trailer cover ??
I guess no more than door hinge or there's issues opening door..
A scoop or air deflector across the top near windscreen to deflect any bugs etc over car....Which could be quite a gap to allow for movement...

svo supporter · 09-01-2012, 07:59 PM

[QUOTE=ebxr8240]YEP I find tying the wheels and let the body move a little on its suspension..
On a trailer dedicated to one car I've welded brackets for tyres to fit into...

BTW towing with weight on ball or front of trailer is much safer than having
too much weight the other way.. At the back...
This is ONE QUICK way of promoting sway...
I borrowed a car trailer to pick up son's caged and tubbed MK1 Cortina ..
From the other side of Melbourne..We live in Penrith NSW..
The axles were fitted in the middle...
I couldn't drive over 75 KPH with trailer empty...

When we finally got the Cortina on the trailer.. With NO engine and big heavy 9" in the rear..
The balance made it worse !!! We put as much weight in the front and tied Cortina as close to front as possible..
Even then over 80KPH was dangerous.. Requiring heaps of concentration keeping steering wheel as straight as possible to prevent sway..

QUOTE]

This sounds like the car needed to be loaded backwards for the trailer to tow properly.

schultzie · 09-01-2012, 08:36 PM

Ok Mr hardware because you are so knowlegable on the subject and have managed to post nothing relating to the original topic i will just cover your points.....

1. the trailer is actually 31 years old and its condition is actually really good compared to other trailers i looked at... it aint no rusty old POS
2. Before i decided to make the trailer suit my xr8 rather than my fairlane i consulted an engineer and more precisely one that designs trailers for a living. He told me what needs to be done and i did it and more.... the chassis extension also incorporates 50x50x6mm angle up to the rear of the suspension, i have also run more angle up the center of the trailer to pick up the cross bracing.

This trailer never had sides and was a 2t trailer that weighs 600kg with ramps and spare tires. We decided that putting sides on the trailer would increase the strength far more than running 50x75x3mm box under the existing chassis. By also putting sides on the car will be less likely recieve damage from the tires and the car is a snug fit on the trailer... 10mm clear on the back wheels to the sides.

Yes the trailer is a bit short for even my liking, i would of loved to have 7-9k available for a trailer that would achieve the same thing and be 300mm longer in the draw bar and only another 300-600mm longer on the deck...
But we do have the weight correct for loading the car with approx 180kg in down ball weight.

I will make it clear the weight of the xr8 is not confirmed but would be just over 2t now, and the trailer dry will now closer to 700-750kg... but all will need to be weighed so i know the exact weights.

3. Do people put their cars on trailers for a reason? Yes Yes they do.... you want to know something... towing the ute on a trailer is cheaper than towing a horse float... the only difference being the weight... my hilux only have a towing capacity of 2250kg and im expecting a combined weight of xr8 and trailer being around 2.8t worst case... YES i'm willing to risk towing overloaded but plenty of people do it every day and i know what the implications are... but the best thing i can do i make sure the trailer is up to speed because in this setup the car will stop 100-0kmh faster with the trailer on then not on because of the sheer breaking force the trailer will have.

Will it be hard on the car... yeah hill starts aren't great... but go slow and the auto just eats it up slowly... once moving i'm no slower on the road.

Fuel... well as in the original post ill cop the extra cost in fuel because it will save me a lot in getting stone chips fixed, and front bar resprays because my car bra does not fit properly.... this is a show car it owes me close to 100k and if i can keep it cleaner in between shows with one less scratch or chip in between shows i will be happy hence why in the original post i was wanting peoples thoughts on nose cones...

Now back to the thread...

i normally tow strapped through each wheel and i was a bit concerned about damaging the wheels, i use towels but as i say over all worried that there might be eventual wear. I will most likely keep doing it this way as it seems to be the safest.... but the wedge setup like tow truck drivers use looks trick as well but they still look to allow some movement...

Weight distribution is the key, i will most likely move it 1" at a time till it feels safe... as some here would agree taking the time to get everything setup right is the key to safety... i brought my fairlane home from cooma in nsw and i was mooving is 15mm at a time till it was perfect.... i sat on 110km cruise on and no issues with sway and that was towing with the xr8.... that is the way it needs to be nothing worse than a dangerous load

i actually had to tow the xr8 backwards on a trailer about 6months ago and i couldnt get above 80kmh.... so i sat on 70 the whole way to work... i hated loading it that way but had no choice....

Any of you guys had any dealings with nose cones?

pottery beige · 09-01-2012, 09:13 PM

looks like a lot of hf's.. how often have to move it like this???.. hookin up with a flat bed dude sounds much easier.........

schultzie · 09-01-2012, 09:25 PM

hf's?

basically will use it for any show within 2 hours and big interstate shows... will be worth the effort... if i didnt have 3 cars an old MR truck would be the way to go with a pantek on the back fully enclosed fun!

poppa smurf · 09-01-2012, 09:41 PM

looks like you have done your homework shultzie and I'm glad you have....I have no doubt about the trailers strength although it looks rough I recognise great strength in there

I can see by the "lay" of the vehicle on the trailer when hooked to the 4by that the weight LOOKS to be evenly dispersed with a good section of it on the tow ball

all in all I reckon she would tow quite good..... but I would stress not to reverse the car onto the trailer as the weight distribution would make the rear too heavy and create great sway

but I got an inckling that I'm preaching to the converted....I reckon you may know what you are doing!

schultzie · 09-01-2012, 09:55 PM

yeah i do a lot of towing with work and setting up a load is something im good at. when i towed the xr8 backward's i had a blown airbag and i couldnt get the lift to get the nose over the head board on the trailer i hired...(one reason i bought a car trailer so i could make it suit my needs) i dont think i would of got over it any way, so we backed it on and got it as far forward as possible.

the car is 30mm lower at the tow bar with the ute on the trailer than with out, a mate and i stood on the tow bar and achieved the same measurement... hence why i have an idea on the ball weight.

TowG220 · 09-01-2012, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Trev

I tow a XE race car (with a big old heavy Clevo in it) all over the place, have someone off to the side as you load it and when the trailer and tow car about as level as they can be then that is it, obviously the front of the trailer/rear of the car should always be down a little bit.

As far as tying it down, the wheels is the best way, we run strap through the mags, one on the front wheels forward and one of the back wheels backwards, you can strap each wheel down. It is best to tie the wheels down as the suspension still works.

I do the same thing strap each wheel down ^^^^ so the suspension can still work and I also so have a strap over the diff and another one at the front to a tow point that I made... and I used rubber block on the front wheels at the front and back... It's OVERKILL but it works!!! and I know, I hit some black ice on the hume hwy 2 years ago which made the car trailer go sideways and I jackknife...

Now looking at the pic now I should of had the Fairlane back abit more...But hard with something that's just on 5m long :(
Also I put polyair air bags in the rear of my tow car too which has help alot with towing too...

**ebxr8240** · 09-01-2012, 11:24 PM

[QUOTE=svo supporter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

YEP I find tying the wheels and let the body move a little on its suspension..
On a trailer dedicated to one car I've welded brackets for tyres to fit into...

BTW towing with weight on ball or front of trailer is much safer than having
too much weight the other way.. At the back...
This is ONE QUICK way of promoting sway...
I borrowed a car trailer to pick up son's caged and tubbed MK1 Cortina ..
From the other side of Melbourne..We live in Penrith NSW..
The axles were fitted in the middle...
I couldn't drive over 75 KPH with trailer empty...

When we finally got the Cortina on the trailer.. With NO engine and big heavy 9" in the rear..
The balance made it worse !!! We put as much weight in the front and tied Cortina as close to front as possible..
Even then over 80KPH was dangerous.. Requiring heaps of concentration keeping steering wheel as straight as possible to prevent sway..

QUOTE]

This sounds like the car needed to be loaded backwards for the trailer to tow properly.

NOT wrong..
We arrived down there at 10.30 P.M which was fine.. They expected that... BUT the trailer was designed to pull larger cars ..
So we had issues with one side ..
We fitted 8X2 timber beams down one one side so car would fit ...
No way was we going to change everything so late at night...
Anyway we made it back.. One of those put it down to experience things..
Having read Dick Johnson's book.. Don't tell me I can't do that !!!
Most of the book was about getting to and from race meets all over the country in his early days...Seemed we where on about the same at the time...
We had heaps of rope and those belt tensioners to hold things ...
Towg220 I would say you have ballance about right...
The big engine helps there too...

SHEPPO3930 · 10-01-2012, 12:45 AM

Shultzie, I think the engineer you spoke to drinks too much :-)

mik · 10-01-2012, 02:24 AM

i usually strap it or chain it forward in when the balance is right on the trailer , go around the stronger part of the suspension, then over the wheels , then do the same strapping it backwards so it`s nice and tight, then put a another strap pulling it back wards from another position, and leaving the winch cable attached to the front tow hook on the car, if i know it`s bumpy roads i may even throw a rope or strap over the tow bar tongue to stop the car bouncing to much,
it may be over kill , but if stuff happens and i need to hit the anchors i don`t want it in the front seat with me.
better off spending an extra 15 minutes or half an hour securing it well rather than have it come off the trailer at high speed and ruining your weekend.

one little mod on the trailer i reckon is worth while, some fold down legs, or you could use a block of wood if you don`t wanna go to the trouble, so when you back the henry off the trailer it doesnt try and sit the *** of the trailer on the ground, and if your ramps are only shorty`s, either extend them or get some long ones, makes getting cars off trailers very easy(specially if its low).

DoreSlamR · 10-01-2012, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schultzie

in this setup the car will stop 100-0kmh faster with the trailer on then not on because of the sheer breaking force the trailer will have

Not being a smart **** here but I think the laws of physics will disagree with that.

I thought it best to point out that you won't stop faster so that you don't run up someones **** or have the trailer overtake you because you were over confident in your braking distances.

schultzie · 10-01-2012, 07:29 AM

That may be so but if you have ever towed with electric breaks that are setup with a good pendulum controller stopping is out standing, the trailer will break the car. also how crazy would you want to be towing like a dick with nearly 150k worth of vehicles of which as many people should know most insurance policies do not cover a car being towed...

It seems that most of us are in agreeable stance on strapping down, I do like the idea of the 3rd strap on the back, I don't have a tow point on the front nor will the trailer have a winch at this stage.

I have worked out that on loading on flat ground there is 75mm under the ramp holders upon loading. But this will all change with the new running gear, I have some 50x50x3 I'm going to use to make helpers on the trailer. It is a great idea save extra stress when loading

schultzie · 10-01-2012, 07:35 AM

Towg220: that going down the road would look so cool.. Something about setups looking the part

mash again · 10-01-2012, 07:56 AM

proper wheel tie downs are available, at least from the states, http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-AUTO-TI...item414edc7cc6

May be what your looking for

**ebxr8240** · 10-01-2012, 11:06 PM

I've used strap tensions over the tyre on front wheels..
An X strap tensioner across the back to diff..
The steel cable used to pull car on is only attached for safety and quite loose.. I use Polly rope or strap tensioner from Xmember to front side corner where a loop is welded in on floor...
This ties side movement as well as front back movement...
;
I'll be making a nose cone very soon also..
So far plan on welding 20X20mm tube and fit weld screw some panel steel over it... With bolt on trailer fittings so it can be removed...
;
Oh BTW you'll be amassed what a good coat of paint can do to a trailer..
I used hammer coat grey ...Looked 30 years newer...