Covid 19 -

[FairmontGS]

UK... what a basket case. Such a pity.

[Citroënbender]

And rampant COVID on top of that!

[zilo]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

UK... what a basket case. Such a pity.

She'll be right mate....they can all come over here even if the new strain of Covid has all other countries closing their doors to the poms.

Just cause they've lived there for the last 12 years and the kids are all in private schools there...hell... we have to let them come home....

Gotta love dual nationality citizens...

("home" is where the covid is under control. ..ask the plane loads from Mumbai)....

[FairmontGS]

Security companies 'vindicated' as Andrews apologises for hotel quarantine debacle

The findings, including that the majority of security guards acted "honestly and with goodwill", contradicted claims made by Premier Daniel Andrews at the start of Victoria's second wave that infection-control mistakes made by security guards sharing cigarette lighters may have been to blame for the transmission of the virus into the community.

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/v...21-p56pc4.html

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Security companies 'vindicated' as Andrews apologises for hotel quarantine debacle

The findings, including that the majority of security guards acted "honestly and with goodwill", contradicted claims made by Premier Daniel Andrews at the start of Victoria's second wave that infection-control mistakes made by security guards sharing cigarette lighters may have been to blame for the transmission of the virus into the community.

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/v...21-p56pc4.html

And people talk about some private security were not wearing face masks, Brett Sutton himself in March said that wearing masks is not recommended if you are not sick. No wonder they were hopelessly equipped, though this does not excuse the risky behaviour hanging out with the quarantiners one bit.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

Security companies 'vindicated' as Andrews apologises for hotel quarantine debacle

The findings, including that the majority of security guards acted "honestly and with goodwill", contradicted claims made by Premier Daniel Andrews at the start of Victoria's second wave that infection-control mistakes made by security guards sharing cigarette lighters may have been to blame for the transmission of the virus into the community.

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/v...21-p56pc4.html

How long Before the security Guards get together & Sue Dan Andrews for defamation of character???

Some of these Ambulance chasing Lawyers will be rubbing their hands Together over this.. in my Opinion.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by hayseed

How long Before the security Guards get together & Sue Dan Andrews for defamation of character???

Some of these Ambulance chasing Lawyers will be rubbing their hands Together over this.. in my Opinion.

And this is where I have an issue.

I personally couldn't give a rats about private security and who ordered it. Sydney are using them.... and Sydney has had 3 cases of people working on those sites catch it and spread it in the last month. But gladys says that is fine and to be expected. But it's not fine for it to happen to Victoria.

Personally, I seriously doubt any state would have been in a position to pull up that second wave back then. It got out and spread fast during the Ede celebration... Other states got to observe and learn. The response now, six months later in Sydney has to be a lot better as all the states have had six months to refine and learn.

For sure there were issues in Melbourne. And the report highlighted them. And they need to fix those issues. But for anyone else or any other state to point fingers smacks of political expediency to me.

To see our federal leaders going after Victoria during that second wave was pretty disgusting and a sign of poor leadership on their behalf.

But it's always about Andrews. Rather than supporting Victoria it was about point scoring and trying to diminish him.

FWIW, I am no Andrews fan, but that guy stood up every day and answered every stupid question put to him, and led Victoria out of that. He gets some brownie points for that from me.

And don't forget the Feds played a part in that wave too, though their federally managed aged care. They have been quite slippery in their messaging around that.

Ultimately the people of Victoria will get to judge how well he performed, but they were lucky to have Andrews and not that idiot O'Brien running the show.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by cs123

FWIW, I am no Andrews fan, but that guy stood up every day and answered every stupid question put to him, and led Victoria out of that. He gets some brownie points for that from me.

Me Too..

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by hayseed

How long Before the security Guards get together & Sue Dan Andrews for defamation of character???

Some of these Ambulance chasing Lawyers will be rubbing their hands Together over this.. in my Opinion.

I think they have been paid enough already, so I'd be surprised if they go down that path, but who knows. Whilst it was found that they acted "in good faith", they had their own failings. Hiring through whatsapp with limited vetting, lack of training, and lack of compliance oversight. I haven't read the report so I don't if they were in the findings.

I think the security companies would have more luck suing certain sections of the media. The coverage was a disgrace.

And if the security companies now feel vindicated, why are the "who made the private security guards decision" brigade still crying?

[FairmontGS]

And from the other end of town...

Rotten core of Victoria’s COVID response
Victoria’s hotel quarantine inquiry has damned the Andrews government as irresponsible and incompetent.

The bottom line from the Coate report is that the Andrews government’s actions leading to the state’s second wave of infections of COVID-19 was “at odds with any normal application of the principles of the Westminster system of responsible government”.

Coate correctly rejects any temptation to excuse the government’s deficiencies due to the unusual and fast-paced nature of the pandemic. The fact that people worked hard or had wanted to do the right thing “does not excuse the deficiencies found in the program”, Coate said.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/com...08d4f0b6f01831

[FairmontGS]

NSW coronavirus restrictions in Greater Sydney and northern beaches for Christmas explained

The State Government has effectively carved NSW into four different zones, each with its own set of restrictions and exemptions. Where you're currently staying will determine what you can and can't do over the next three days.

• The northern peninsula of the northern beaches
• The southern zone of the northern beaches
• Greater Sydney, Central Coast, Wollongong and Nepean Blue Mountains which the NSW Government has bundled as simply Greater Sydney during press conferences, as a shorthand
• Regional NSW, which is everywhere but any of the areas above

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-...aches/13009964

[Tickford.]

There was plenty of scientific and medical evidence back in June/July that said pre teens DO get infected, and CAN spread the virus. I also remember mentioning it in this thread back in July. See my post below.

https://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?p=6460920


Who is giving Berejiklian this incorrect medical information? Is it NSW CHO Kerry Chant? Or is it Federal CHO Professor Paul Kelly? Is it the same person who gave the PM health advice?

The first two paragraphs from the Hopkins Medical article I linked previously states:

Can children get coronavirus?

Yes. Although in a majority of cases disease seems to be milder in young children, it’s important for parents and caregivers to understand that children can be infected with SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes COVID-19, and can transmit it to others.

In rare cases, children can become very sick with COVID-19, and deaths have occurred. That’s why it is important to use precautions and prevent infection in children as well as adults.

[mostly_broncos]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

There was plenty of scientific and medical evidence back in June/July that said pre teens DO get infected, and CAN spread the virus. I also remember mentioning it in this thread back in July. See my post below.

https://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?p=6460920


Who is giving Berejiklian this incorrect medical information? Is it NSW CHO Kerry Chant? Or is it Federal CHO Professor Paul Kelly? Is it the same person who gave the PM health advice?

The first two paragraphs from the Hopkins Medical article I linked previously states:

Here where I live our kids are at school 50% of the time , basically 2 days in 3 days distance learning then the following week 3 days in 2 days distance . So at any time the school is half full.


No cases , in fact the biggest thing affecting in person learning is how much clout the teachers union has.



There are reports that one thing that might protect children is the MMR vaccine , apparently it might offer protection against the corona but it wears off as you age and adults don't get it here as a rule

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

.....Hopkins Medical article I linked previously ...

I was disappointed in that article in that it offered opinion before facts - It did have some stats.
I recrunched some of these to see if Children actually suffer less harm than Adults (Stats alone cannot support the theory that Kids do or dont carny Covid-19 to others)

The numbers it stated seemed ok, but there was a nice study done by the American Academy of Pediatrics https://downloads.aap.org/AAP/PDF/AA...20%20FINAL.pdf

Using these figures to give some context:

Children are 22.7% of the US population.
Children represent 10.0% of US Covid-19 cases
Children represent 1.73% of US Covid-19 hospitalisations
Children represent 0.065% of US Covid-19 deaths

Children have CMR of 0.000191 (0.0191% chance of mortality)
Compared to the population CMR 0.029284 for total US population (2.93%)
(I hope I got the orders of magnitude the same as Russ)

Based on these figures a child is half as likely to get diagnosed with Covid-19 and once diagnosed 1/200th as likely to die.

So a child is arguably 400 times as 'safe' as an average person.

For some random context:
Cleaning with Dettol is 1000 times as safe as not cleaning, because Dettol kills 99.9% of germs
Note: Kids are included in the total population, so a better comparison would make those figures more favourable

<opinion>
Kids = half as safe as Dettol
I would allow my kids to go to school based on that


I do find so many places use an alarmist attitude, evidently JH as well - it wears me out.
Maths relaxes me.

<\opinion>

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

I was disappointed in that article in that it offered opinion before facts - It did have some stats.
I recrunched some of these to see if Children actually suffer less harm than Adults (Stats alone cannot support the theory that Kids do or dont carny Covid-19 to others)

The numbers it stated seemed ok, but there was a nice study done by the American Academy of Pediatrics https://downloads.aap.org/AAP/PDF/AA...20%20FINAL.pdf

Using these figures to give some context:

Children are 22.7% of the US population.
Children represent 10.0% of US Covid-19 cases
Children represent 1.73% of US Covid-19 hospitalisations
Children represent 0.065% of US Covid-19 deaths

Children have CMR of 0.000191 (0.0191% chance of mortality)
Compared to the population CMR 0.029284 for total US population (2.93%)
(I hope I got the orders of magnitude the same as Russ)

Based on these figures a child is half as likely to get diagnosed with Covid-19 and once diagnosed 1/200th as likely to die.

So a child is arguably 400 times as 'safe' as an average person.

For some random context:
Cleaning with Dettol is 1000 times as safe as not cleaning, because Dettol kills 99.9% of germs
Note: Kids are included in the total population, so a better comparison would make those figures more favourable

&lt;opinion&gt;
Kids = half as safe as Dettol
I would allow my kids to go to school based on that


I do find so many places use an alarmist attitude, evidently JH as well - it wears me out.
Maths relaxes me.

&lt;\opinion&gt;

But can kids carry and transmit? I think that's key.

Apparently the UK strain (originally from Brazil) is infecting kids.

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

But can kids carry and transmit? I think that's key. ...

Actually this is a bigger question, can someone who is not positive carry ?
This is not limited to kids.


If I powerwash the kids on the way into the house, is that enough ?
Can I do the same with my mate who had it in March ?



I makes sense that infected kids can carry, but have half the chance of being infected, so half the chance of carrying.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

I was disappointed in that article in that it offered opinion before facts - It did have some stats.
I recrunched some of these to see if Children actually suffer less harm than Adults (Stats alone cannot support the theory that Kids do or dont carny Covid-19 to others)

The numbers it stated seemed ok, but there was a nice study done by the American Academy of Pediatrics https://downloads.aap.org/AAP/PDF/AA...20%20FINAL.pdf

Using these figures to give some context:

Children are 22.7% of the US population.
Children represent 10.0% of US Covid-19 cases
Children represent 1.73% of US Covid-19 hospitalisations
Children represent 0.065% of US Covid-19 deaths

Children have CMR of 0.000191 (0.0191% chance of mortality)
Compared to the population CMR 0.029284 for total US population (2.93%)
(I hope I got the orders of magnitude the same as Russ)

Based on these figures a child is half as likely to get diagnosed with Covid-19 and once diagnosed 1/200th as likely to die.

So a child is arguably 400 times as 'safe' as an average person.

For some random context:
Cleaning with Dettol is 1000 times as safe as not cleaning, because Dettol kills 99.9% of germs
Note: Kids are included in the total population, so a better comparison would make those figures more favourable

<opinion>
Kids = half as safe as Dettol
I would allow my kids to go to school based on that


I do find so many places use an alarmist attitude, evidently JH as well - it wears me out.
Maths relaxes me.

<\opinion>

I think you have confused the mortality rate of those under 12 with the fact that they are just as infectious as the rest of the population...and that is the point....they spread the virus prolifically and due to schools inability to socially distance it makes it high risk to older people.

No need for maths on this one.

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by zilo

I think you have confused the mortality rate of those under 12 with the fact that they are just as infectious as the rest of the population ....

I just gave some figures on whether kids were safe themselves or not. My opinion is that they are, I cold understand others drawing a different conclusion.


"Can Kids infect others"... is beyond any science I have available right now ... there was an early Australian study I believe



Note: I should have said "(These Stats ..."

Originally Posted by EgoFG

(Stats alone cannot support the theory that Kids do or dont carny Covid-19 to others)

[Citroënbender]

I’ve just seen a straw poll on the Nine News site that has 76% of respondents opposed to the Sydney NYE fireworks. Shame it doesn’t analyse the responses by where they originate.

Great to see the testing centres open on Christmas Day. It gives the introverts a legitimate excuse to avoid events and more flexibility to others who have perhaps been putting off a test.

Big thumbs-up to the NT for a nimble bureaucracy with respect to NSW residents, too.

[russellw]

Data valid as at 23:59 GMT December 23rd, 2020.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting.

18 new cases for Australia and 0 deaths so the CMR is 3.216%. NSW recorded 16 cases while Victoria and Queensland recorded 1 each.

7 new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.175% and active cases 49.

The UK had a new record 39,237 cases yesterday and 744 deaths.

Just over 199k new cases in the USA yesterday and 3,456 deaths sees CMR drop to 1.771% and active cases at 39.7% with the raw numbers rising and now over 7.4M. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
Global cases pass 79M with the last 1M in 1 day;
Asia passes 20M cases;
Africa set a new daily high with 24,152 - the prior high on 24th July;
The USA completes 240M, India 164M, Turkey 23M and Kazakhstan 5M tests.

Uruguay (709) - 17% above the previous high;
Latvia (1,145);
Lebanon (2246) - the previous high on 6th November;
Lithuania (3,737);
Mexico (12,511);
South Africa (14,046) - the previous high on 24th July;
Colombia (14,233); and
UK (39,237)

... recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive days.

[Tickford.]

Another more deadly strain has been found in the UK. This one more transmissible than the strain found to be from Brazil, which was said to be 70% more transmissible.




How effective will the Pfizer and/or the Moderna vaccine be with these two new mutated strains?

[au350hp]

Unfortunately, on a global scale, 2021 is going to be much worse than anything we have seen so far. The way I see it, the biggest threat to our country is overseas people & incoming freight. If we see more situations such as Flight Crews or Seamen being ferried back and forth by drivers without P.P.E, or situations like Northern Beaches. Self entitlement is a big problem, as we have seen these people that are ill but still go out to eat, drink, shop, gym etc.... Economy wise, businesses relying on overseas manufacturing will continue to be affected and I believe that problem may get worse. It amazes me that other countries leaders have not introduced the changes that are proven, controlling movement, masks etc. My biggest gripe besides politicians using this as a popularity contest, is the lack of military involvement. The Australian Defence Force eat this sort of stuff for breakfast. They would be perfect for every task that has been dumped in the Police's hands, especially the quarantine hotels and road blocks.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Roostercam

The Australian Defence Force eat this sort of stuff for breakfast. They would be perfect for every task that has been dumped in the Police's hands, especially the quarantine hotels and road blocks.

On one hand I think the ADF should be kept as far away from this virus as possible. But it appears they are being very selective on where, when and how help is given.

The reluctance of the ADF to help with QLD and VIC border patrol astounds me. Unless there is something happening in the background that requires more priority that we don't know about. In comparison, a huge amount of ADF resources were deployed to man the NSW border during Vic's outbreak. And before anyone harps on about the low numbers, remember Vic had that ring of steel around metro melb, so the regional areas were almost covid free.

"After four million vehicle checks at points on the NSW-Victoria border, Joint Task Unit 629.1.3 finished its part in Operation COVID-19 Assist on October 30.

More than 1200 ADF members from Army, Navy and Air Force – including reservists – served for a combined total of 41,000 ADF days at 20 checkpoints on the border operation.

They deployed to points stretching from the sea to the desert."

https://news.defence.gov.au/national...tion-comes-end

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

The reluctance of the ADF to help with QLD and VIC border patrol astounds me. Unless there is something happening in the background that requires more priority that we don't know about.

I know that at this time of year the defence like to transfer a lot of it's people.

Anyone who lives close to an Army/Navy/Airforce base would notice the influx of furniture removalists in Dec. Although it may be more noticeable here as we have both Army and Air bases nearby.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

On one hand I think the ADF should be kept as far away from this virus as possible. But it appears they are being very selective on where, when and how help is given.

The reluctance of the ADF to help with QLD and VIC border patrol astounds me. Unless there is something happening in the background that requires more priority that we don't know about. In comparison, a huge amount of ADF resources were deployed to man the NSW border during Vic's outbreak. And before anyone harps on about the low numbers, remember Vic had that ring of steel around metro melb, so the regional areas were almost covid free.

"After four million vehicle checks at points on the NSW-Victoria border, Joint Task Unit 629.1.3 finished its part in Operation COVID-19 Assist on October 30.

More than 1200 ADF members from Army, Navy and Air Force – including reservists – served for a combined total of 41,000 ADF days at 20 checkpoints on the border operation.

They deployed to points stretching from the sea to the desert."

https://news.defence.gov.au/national...tion-comes-end

The states have Covid19 mostly under control so for the need of the ADF is really not necessarily required. States can you use their own police and SES people.
ADF should only be used as last resort stop gap measure imo.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Tickford.

Another more deadly strain has been found in the UK. This one more transmissible than the strain found to be from Brazil, which was said to be 70% more transmissible.




How effective will the Pfizer and/or the Moderna vaccine be with these two new mutated strains?

It almost appears they are making these "discoveries" to deflect some attention away from the complete mismanagement of CV19 over there. Just last wednesday the gov OKed families to have Christmas gatherings with 3 other households, then on the Satday they did a complete U turn.

Even as far back as Feb, we knew there were different strains, and virologists could already associate certain strains with specific countries. What makes these two so news worthy all of a sudden, and within the last week?
How do these compare to the strains in the US, which seem pretty infectious to me!? How do you determine if something is 70% more infectious? Based on case numbers? If so, is it infecting more because of the strain or because of the lack of control?

[Tickford.]

ADF stated it will only provide support "for logistics, contact tracing and hotel quarantine", as border closures are a state issue. Not a National/Federal issue.

Defence Minister Linda Reynolds explained a couple of days ago that the reason to only provide only 50 ADF personnel to VIC (300 was requested) is due to "getting ready for the high risk weather season."

https://www.facebook.com/Sunrise/vid...13325969181137

[buggerlugs]

Why, in the middle of a pandemic is this woman so keen to have Fireworks ?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-...-2021/13012864

[cs123]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Why, in the middle of a pandemic is this woman so keen to have Fireworks ?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-...-2021/13012864

Because ...no refunds on the fireworks ????

It's got me stuffed too. But pretty ballsy of them to have that sort of confidence.

[Citroënbender]

Last year there were strong calls to defer the fireworks as it was considered “tone deaf” respective to the raging bushfires. Lady Moore, Sydney’s Mayor-for-Life, was unsympathetic to the pleas.

I think there could be a bit of antagonism occurring this time.