Discovery could end energy crisis

[DoreSlamR]

Found this article:
Link

A Tifton agricultural researcher says he has found the solution to the world’s energy crisis through genetic modification and cloning of bacterial organisms that can convert bio-mass into hydrocarbons on a grand scale. The local researcher believes his groundbreaking discovery could result in the production of 500 to 1,000 barrels of hydrocarbon fuel per day from the initial production facility. The hydrocarbon fuel — commonly known as oil or fossil fuel when drilled — will require no modification to automobiles, oil pipelines or refineries as they exist today and could forever end the United States’ dependence on foreign oil, he said.

Sounds interesting
Discuss!

[XplosiveR6]

sounds very interesting, i always thought biology is the answer to most things in technology. I believe one day when computers get simply too fast for silicon chips they too will be powered by organisms. the most fascinating and most efficient things on this earth are biological.

[aye you]

very reasonable, and very much a possibility

[paulvdb]

Not new. I've noticed that there's been a number of US threads on this. Some companies have gotten to the methanol stage and others that get to diesel. The current debate is really about which organic product we need to grow in order to convert enough material into fuel (in real quantities!) without stuffing up the food industry. I think we're getting past the sugar cane/corn issues now as there are materials that will get a better return using appropriate bacterium, with poorer land and less water.

It's a shame the Oz govt hasn't been putting their money into more development other than looking after a few politically friendly sugar farms to develop our rather un-green ethanol.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by XplosiveR6

the most fascinating and most efficient things on this earth are biological.

True. Women are fascinating. Men are efficient!


(Now,where did I put that flame suit?)

[zetec]

If it was world beating it would be in something bigger than the Tifton gazette...

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

True. Women are fascinating. Men are efficient!

24-carat



But I like this...imagine...no more oil from greedy Arab nations.
Their market value would fall a bit...I like it

[asusdragon]

Originally Posted by XplosiveR6

sounds very interesting, i always thought biology is the answer to most things in technology. I believe one day when computers get simply too fast for silicon chips they too will be powered by organisms. the most fascinating and most efficient things on this earth are biological.

off topic but along your lines kind of like the movies eXistenZ, where computer consoles are now organisns

anyway back on topic does sound interesting keen to see where it goes to now. if it can happen and on a mass scale hopefully fuel prices might come back down yah, but going to say many years off

[HTCURRY]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

24-carat



But I like this...imagine...no more oil from greedy Arab nations.
Their market value would fall a bit...I like it

They are greedy because they have a consumable you are devouring like its going out of fashion?

People complained about oil prices when it was $50 a barrel, then when it was $100, now as it hits $140, the complaining continues.

Yet, countries like the US, will not drill in places like the ANWR, because of conservation.

You make the choice, conservation or cheap fossil fuels?

Also you might have a go at India and China for being so energy hungry.

[Jayden]

how is this new. new parts and logistic ideas maybe but there is already an extensive wiki article on biohydrocarbons http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biohydrocarbon and the many people working on it. seems NZ is doing jet fuel research and AUS is flitting away our money to that clear conscious green company called Toyota so they can continue to care for every fluffy white bunny rabbit that big oil rejected while everyone else apparently drives around with arsenic dispensers or something attached to their vehicles.

um.. end rant.

edit - as for computers. screw biological, I dont want my PC to hemorrhage and rot away. Quantum computing FTW.

[greenfoam]

Man, this is the last thing we need, The Earth can cope (just) with seeing out the natural oil fields we have, but it wont stand for anymore burnt oil than that. This would be a disaster on the grandest scale. Cars are also burning up huge amounts of oxygen, we really need to find something much better than the combustion engine and soon

[XplosiveR6]

Originally Posted by greenfoam

Man, this is the last thing we need, The Earth can cope (just) with seeing out the natural oil fields we have, but it wont stand for anymore burnt oil than that. This would be a disaster on the grandest scale. Cars are also burning up huge amounts of oxygen, we really need to find something much better than the combustion engine and soon

cars actually amount to a small percentage of the words CO2 emissions, but don't let truth get in the way of a good story ey.

[madmelon]

Originally Posted by greenfoam

Man, this is the last thing we need, The Earth can cope (just) with seeing out the natural oil fields we have, but it wont stand for anymore burnt oil than that. This would be a disaster on the grandest scale. Cars are also burning up huge amounts of oxygen, we really need to find something much better than the combustion engine and soon

The problem with that argument is that for a plant to grow, it must absorb large amounts of carbon dioxide and water. In the growing process, the carbon is stored with hydrogen from the water in the form of cellular material (cellulose, etc). The remaining water is released, along with the oxygen once attached to the carbon and hydrogen.

The only carbon emitted by using this material (or some conversion of it) as a fuel is that which has been absorbed to grow the plant- the net effect is carbon neutral. All the energy required to back convert water and CO2 to a fuel is obtained from the sun (photosynthesis). So plants are essentially solar cells which produce woody material as opposed to electricity.

Honda recently (last 1 or 2 years) has discovered/GM'd a bacteria which can convert cellulose straight to ethanol, as opposed to requiring glucose, fructose, etc (different sugars). This is a huge step forwards as it would allow the entire plant to be effectively used, as opposed to just the "fruit" it grows. Obviously this would be a significant step forwards in alternative fuel technology but commercialisation of such a process is a way off yet. Don't think that every oil company on the planet wouldn't give ANYTHING to stop this technology coming to market.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

But I like this...imagine...no more oil from greedy Arab nations.
Their market value would fall a bit...I like it

LOL...........the greed and control is "fueled" by us Westerners to maintain our exorbitant lifestyles............the arab nations just happen to profit from our greed. The USA consumes 25% of the worlds fossil fuel energy and all the BIG global economies are based on the availability of "cheap" fossil fuels. Now that CHINA and INDIA also want a slice of the good life that all of the western economies have been enjoying since the Industrial revolution, we will all see a huge rise in the cost of fuel based on demand outstripping supply.......BIG TIME. In fact, most experts are predicting that we have now peaked our oil production v demand/consumption.............meaning that the next 20 - 50 years will see most economies being totally unsustainable as there isn't enough oil to go around...............simple maths. ( and there hasn't been any big oil finds recently despite thousands of tapping projects.......last big find was 2005 )

Alternative fuel technology can't come soon enough...........methinks we may all see the possibility of another great depression within our lifetimes as we all struggle to find a replacement for the 85 million barrels per day of fossil fuel energy we are consuming today !!!!!!!!!!


Worst thing is ...........even if we all started to invest in new energy technology research today.............it would still take more than 50 - 100 or more years to replace our energy infrastructure as it stands now. And by that time, we may have a global population of 20 Billion that we need to sustain... !!!!!!!!!!!!

Better get started.....................

[StAndArdAU]

so when will we see World War III: The Oil War ?? :P

What makes an engine a 'Viable' replacement for the combustion engine? does it have to have 'so much' power or just simply run? and please excuse my ignorance but dont we already have this technology now? or is it a question of economy? or are we talking about the fact that it takes massive amounts of oil to produce vehicles anyways?

[xy500]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

24-carat



But I like this...imagine...no more oil from greedy Arab nations.
Their market value would fall a bit...I like it

Greedy arab nations? are you aware of what racism is?
we are just as, if not more greedy than any oil producing nation, what with our mineral hording and whatnot!
grow a brain, just because they have oil and are selling it for a cost does not make them greedy

[Donny]

Originally Posted by StAndArdAU

so when will we see World War III: The Oil War ?? :P

What makes an engine a 'Viable' replacement for the combustion engine? does it have to have 'so much' power or just simply run? and please excuse my ignorance but dont we already have this technology now? or is it a question of economy? or are we talking about the fact that it takes massive amounts of oil to produce vehicles anyways?

WW3....Sounds like some Mad Max times there.
Seriously tho, Oil Wars......That war really is going on over in the Middle East right now as we speak, and its America trying to stealthily take over control of the whole oil producing she-bang in the Middle East.
The continuing issues over there and the terrorist stuff is their excuse to legitimatly be there. America being who they are and with all their resourses still cannot catch Bin Laden??? BULL SHYTE!!!!! they dont want to catch him, it takes away a big chunk of their reason to occupy the Middle East.

As for viable engine and fuel alternatives, there have been literally hundreds allready invented, all of these working concepts and prototypes are now owned by the big oil companies who have a huge vested interest in the entire modern world buying their product until there is none left. And once this happens, they will peddle their inventions they bought and hushed up to the world and live off the profits garnished for the rest of their lives.

Back in the very early 90's I did some work for a gentleman at one of his houses here on the Gold Coast who owned a few oil wells back in the Middle East some where, his company was earning a million dollars a day back then.

There is a lot of greed when it comes to oil, and its everywhere. Just look at our theiving government who takes 46% of total fuel cost in excise and then charges a second tax on the excise as well. Talk about double dipping.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by xy500

Greedy arab nations? are you aware of what racism is?
we are just as, if not more greedy than any oil producing nation, what with our mineral hording and whatnot!
grow a brain, just because they have oil and are selling it for a cost does not make them greedy

Of course their not greedy. Just because they have most of the oil and seem to be releasing what they want, when they want, just makes them warm fuzzy human beings....... Just like Genghis Khan was in his day :


Um, what minerals are we 'hording' ?

[xy500]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Of course their not greedy. Just because they have most of the oil and seem to be releasing what they want, when they want, just makes them warm fuzzy human beings....... Just like Genghis Khan was in his day :


Um, what minerals are we 'hording' ?

They have most of the oil? who is they? there are several middle eastern countries with rich oil reserves, but are they the only ones that supply us with oil? what about the united states? or southern america? the list goes on...
the middle eastern countries are in fact very co-operative when it comes to releasing more oil when we ask them to, and they sell it to us at the price we (opec) sets, not what they set.
genghis khan was from mongolia by the way - not the middle east and i don't beleive he had any links to oil production

what minerals are we hording? so you don't know what makes this country rich then do you! iron ore, bauxite, uranium, gold etc.
this country is built on mining! get to know where you live

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by xy500

They have most of the oil? who is they? there are several middle eastern countries with rich oil reserves, but are they the only ones that supply us with oil? what about the united states? or southern america? the list goes on...
the middle eastern countries are in fact very co-operative when it comes to releasing more oil when we ask them to, and they sell it to us at the price we (opec) sets, not what they set.
genghis khan was from mongolia by the way - not the middle east and i don't beleive he had any links to oil production

what minerals are we hording? so you don't know what makes this country rich then do you! iron ore, bauxite, uranium, gold etc.
this country is built on mining! get to know where you live

I'll ignore the dribble about several middle eastern countries as you were the one who joined ALL the Arab countries with the racism tag.

OPEC = WE? As far as I know OZ is not a member of OPEC.

As for hoarding. Get real. Hoarding means to cache, store or stockpile, and I dont see how having Iron, Uranium and Gold that is still in the ground could be classified as this.

[TERRY TORRY]

: The idea is good but oil, petrol companies and our gord government make a lot of money out of us and would not back this or maybe they would set up a committee to look at it, cost millions and still squash it. The Middle East does all right too. Oh to be an arab. :

[snappy]

it funny how every one blames the arabs. Try the world bank they see about 50% profit from oil. Arabs sell it for $5 a barrel then gets sold for $140+ u.s. Its these silent partners , middle men what ever you want to call them . Saying the arabs a greedy is like saying a farmers are greedy and cheating us because the supermarket sells for $20 a kilo. I was told we can supply 80 % of our own oil needs and often do but it has to be sold and sent to opec mixed with other oil the sold back to us in u.s dollars and sent back her again. herd this a few times have no idea if its the truth but it would not suprise me at all .

[DoreSlamR]

Originally Posted by snappy84

it funny how every one blames the arabs. Try the world bank they see about 50% profit from oil. Arabs sell it for $5 a barrel then gets sold for $140+ u.s. Its these silent partners , middle men what ever you want to call them . Saying the arabs a greedy is like saying a farmers are greedy and cheating us because the supermarket sells for $20 a kilo. I was told we can supply 80 % of our own oil needs and often do but it has to be sold and sent to opec mixed with other oil the sold back to us in u.s dollars and sent back her again. herd this a few times have no idea if its the truth but it would not suprise me at all .

I got this in an email, quite a read but has some relevent information regarding the amount of oil we actually produce:

Fuel: The Mass Debate
Or How to Knock About 50c a Litre Off the Price Of Fuel
First and foremost this debate should be centred on Diesel NOT Unleaded. Why? You may ask. Just look at the increase in supermarket prices for your answer. While it may cost you $5 or $10 extra to fill your tank everything that is transported (which is everything) rises as Diesel rises. My average basket at the supermarket per week has increased on average $30 and that’s for one person. Australia’s whole economy is tied to Diesel and therefore it should be afforded the same priority and status as water i.e. an essential commodity.
I own a small transport company and I have had to significantly raise my prices twice in the past year just to maintain profit margins. This cost you money too.

I am compelled to write this letter because I am sick of all the namby-pamby pussyfooting around everyone seems to be doing about the current fuel debate. I have spent considerable time researching this area because it affects my income. Contained herein is the WHOLE truth about the debate, the WHOLE big picture, if you will. NO-ONE till now has had the testicular fortitude to stick their necks out and present the WHOLE argument about just how much we are being RIPPED OFF. If you want the truth and the WHOLE truth read on.

DON’T – Listen to spin doctors from the oil companies. THEY HAVE A VESTED INTREST TO KEEP FUEL PRICES HIGH.
DON’T – Listen to the government – state or federal. THEY HAVE A VESTED INTREST TO KEEP FUEL PRICES HIGH.
DON’T – pay too much attention to news or current affairs programs. THEY HAVE THEIR OWN AGENDAS.
So here we go, how to make fuel cheaper!

FIRSTLY – DISBAND FUEL PARITY
Parity, for those that don’t know, is government sanctioned price fixing (simple as that). Parity allows fuel companies to sell their products for the highest current price they find in the Asia Pacific region. It completely disregards supply and demand economics and eliminates any need for competition amongst themselves.
Don’t believe me? Just look at the price of Diesel. If you remember growing up when Diesel was always 10-15c p/l cheaper than Petrol you might understand this more.
How can a product that costs far less to produce (partially a by-product of producing Unleaded as well) and a product that Australia uses more of than any other fuel be MORE EXPENSIVE than Unleaded? Simple, ring Singapore, where they don’t use a lot of Diesel and import all their fuel, find out how much it’s selling for there and charge the same here – sound fair? NOT!
Any other industry who tried this one would be hauled of to the High Court quick smart and prosecuted for price fixing! Oh but hang on, our government ALLOWS them to do this

NUMBER TWO – BARRELL PRICE
That price the news loves to show us each night is the PREMIUM GRADE crude oil price. Australian oil companies DO NOT buy PREMIUM GRADE crude oil! In fact Australia produces around 70% of its own oil and imports about 30%. The cost of production per litre produced here is cheaper than that of imported fuel, but in no way is this factored into the pump price, because they don’t need to (SEE PARITY ABOVE) we pay a pump price based on PREMIUM GRADE crude oil price the same as if we imported all of it, say somewhere like Singapore! Starting to get the picture?

NUMBER THREE – LEVIES
Everyone knows that both State and Federal Governments take a large slice of the cost of a litre of fuel. This equates in total to about 46% of the price per litre. This money is used for infrastructure, road trauma etc. etc. so fair enough right? WRONG!
What is wrong is that it is a PERCENATGE! Look at this. If a litre of fuel costs $1.00 then the Government gets 46c p/l, right? A week later fuel rises to $1.10 p/l; the Government gets 50.6c p/l, bingo! Something tells me that in one week, their costs, IN NO WAY have gone up 9%!
As I stated previously – THE GOVERNMENT HAS A VESTED INTREST TO KEEP FUEL PRICES HIGH. THEY MAKE LOTS MORE FREE MONEY! Why else do they allow fuel companies to maintain PARITY?
If they changed the tax (sorry, levy) to a flat rate tied to the GDP then the fuel price would drop drastically and immediately!

NUMBER FOUR – GST - THE DOUBLE DIPP
Now this one is outright “THIEVERY” and also applies to cigarettes and alcohol.
GST = Goods and Services Tax, correct?
46% or 46c in every dollar in the price of a litre of fuel is TAX (sorry; again, LEVY).
What part of LEVY is a good or a service? YOU CANNOT TAX, TAX RIGHT? WRONG!
You do the math.
Say fuel costs $1.00 p/l – the GST component = 9c
But hang on a minute 46% or 46c of this is TAX!
i.e., 4.14c of the GST is ILLEGALLY CHARGED ON THE TAX COMPONENT! Not much you say?
FOR EVERY LITRE SOLD IN AUSTRALIA EVERY DAY!
That equates to millions of free dollars for the Government! I’ll say it one more time - THE GOVERNMENT HAS A VESTED INTREST TO KEEP FUEL PRICES HIGH. THEY MAKE LOTS MORE FREE MONEY!
The GST on fuel should be 5.4% not 10%. At $1.75 p/l this would drop the current price by around 8c p/l.
Feeling a little annoyed? You should be!
Even without disbanding parity and introducing real competition among fuel companies, you should be paying about 40c less per litre!
My name is Graeme Strempel, (gusto1@arach.net.au) and I run a small transport business, I happily welcome anyone, Government and fuel companies included to prove me wrong.
If you feel strongly about this issue then pass this missive on to everyone in your address book. Eventually someone might take notice.

[DoreSlamR]

Make what you will of the information, not sure how true it is, but i thought it would be worthwhile for others to read.

[Fev]

sounds like a good idea - BUT isnt oil produced under millions of tonnes of pressure with intense heat??

glad to see he got the idea whilst watching cows expel gas..

[xy500]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

I'll ignore the dribble about several middle eastern countries as you were the one who joined ALL the Arab countries with the racism tag.

OPEC = WE? As far as I know OZ is not a member of OPEC.

As for hoarding. Get real. Hoarding means to cache, store or stockpile, and I dont see how having Iron, Uranium and Gold that is still in the ground could be classified as this.

same difference to any country that has oil in there ground then? so therefore how are we any better, or any moreso a 'model' international citizen when compared to an oil based economy like saudi arabia?

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by DoreSlamR

I got this in an email, quite a read but has some relevent information regarding the amount of oil we actually produce:

Fuel: The Mass Debate
Or How to Knock About 50c a Litre Off the Price Of Fuel
First and foremost this debate should be centred on Diesel NOT Unleaded. Why? You may ask. Just look at the increase in supermarket prices for your answer. While it may cost you $5 or $10 extra to fill your tank everything that is transported (which is everything) rises as Diesel rises. My average basket at the supermarket per week has increased on average $30 and that’s for one person. Australia’s whole economy is tied to Diesel and therefore it should be afforded the same priority and status as water i.e. an essential commodity.
I own a small transport company and I have had to significantly raise my prices twice in the past year just to maintain profit margins. This cost you money too.

I am compelled to write this letter because I am sick of all the namby-pamby pussyfooting around everyone seems to be doing about the current fuel debate. I have spent considerable time researching this area because it affects my income. Contained herein is the WHOLE truth about the debate, the WHOLE big picture, if you will. NO-ONE till now has had the testicular fortitude to stick their necks out and present the WHOLE argument about just how much we are being RIPPED OFF. If you want the truth and the WHOLE truth read on.

DON’T – Listen to spin doctors from the oil companies. THEY HAVE A VESTED INTREST TO KEEP FUEL PRICES HIGH.
DON’T – Listen to the government – state or federal. THEY HAVE A VESTED INTREST TO KEEP FUEL PRICES HIGH.
DON’T – pay too much attention to news or current affairs programs. THEY HAVE THEIR OWN AGENDAS.
So here we go, how to make fuel cheaper!

FIRSTLY – DISBAND FUEL PARITY
Parity, for those that don’t know, is government sanctioned price fixing (simple as that). Parity allows fuel companies to sell their products for the highest current price they find in the Asia Pacific region. It completely disregards supply and demand economics and eliminates any need for competition amongst themselves.
Don’t believe me? Just look at the price of Diesel. If you remember growing up when Diesel was always 10-15c p/l cheaper than Petrol you might understand this more.
How can a product that costs far less to produce (partially a by-product of producing Unleaded as well) and a product that Australia uses more of than any other fuel be MORE EXPENSIVE than Unleaded? Simple, ring Singapore, where they don’t use a lot of Diesel and import all their fuel, find out how much it’s selling for there and charge the same here – sound fair? NOT!
Any other industry who tried this one would be hauled of to the High Court quick smart and prosecuted for price fixing! Oh but hang on, our government ALLOWS them to do this

NUMBER TWO – BARRELL PRICE
That price the news loves to show us each night is the PREMIUM GRADE crude oil price. Australian oil companies DO NOT buy PREMIUM GRADE crude oil! In fact Australia produces around 70% of its own oil and imports about 30%. The cost of production per litre produced here is cheaper than that of imported fuel, but in no way is this factored into the pump price, because they don’t need to (SEE PARITY ABOVE) we pay a pump price based on PREMIUM GRADE crude oil price the same as if we imported all of it, say somewhere like Singapore! Starting to get the picture?

Gee, where would we get the 30% of the fuel that we have to import if we are not prepared to pay parity for it? :

[DoreSlamR]

Originally Posted by xbgs351

Gee, where would we get the 30% of the fuel that we have to import if we are not prepared to pay parity for it? :

Like i said, probably take what was said with a grain of salt... It may or may not be entirely factual

[XplosiveR6]

Originally Posted by DoreSlamR

I got this in an email, quite a read but has some relevent information regarding the amount of oil we actually produce:

Fuel: The Mass Debate


DON’T – Listen to spin doctors from the oil companies. THEY HAVE A VESTED INTREST TO KEEP FUEL PRICES HIGH.
DON’T – Listen to the government – state or federal. THEY HAVE A VESTED INTREST TO KEEP FUEL PRICES HIGH.
DON’T – pay too much attention to news or current affairs programs. THEY HAVE THEIR OWN AGENDAS.
So here we go, how to make fuel cheaper!

These people really are stupid arn't they
how does the government 'have a vested interest in keeping petrol prices high' exactly?
-Do they want a big chunk of Australia's money to go offshore do they?
-Do they want premature inflation?
-Do they want unemployment to increase?
-Do they want Domestic tourism to decrease?
seriously people need to think before making this crap up

[burnz]

Originally Posted by XplosiveR6

These people really are stupid arn't they
how does the government 'have a vested interest in keeping petrol prices high' exactly?
-Do they want a big chunk of Australia's money to go offshore do they?
-Do they want premature inflation?
-Do they want unemployment to increase?
-Do they want Domestic tourism to decrease?
seriously people need to think before making this crap up

petrol is 81cpl less tax...$1.61 after tax, pretty simple to me.