Going for 150 :)

[pmpdau]

Hey guys,

Due to fun stuff such as buying a house :( I have to build my new ride without forced induction. I'm aiming for a target of around 150rwkw.

First of all I want to know if this achievable with a VCT engine as there are no options for cam work(none that I have found).

This is my car:
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11254069

These will be my first upgrades and any advice about what to do from there would be much appreciated, money isnt really a big issue as it will probably be a 12 month project.

The list of upgrades that will happen within the next 3 months are:
-Full 3'' Exhaust with Pacemaker Extractor probably 4499's becuase of LPG conversion
-CAI System, including Snorkle and Bigger intake pipes
-New Shocks, Camber Kit and Swaybars
-DBA Slotted Rotors(not sure what series, bigger the better) with Bendix Pads and PBR caliper upgrade.


Then i'm stuck i've replaced an engine before so i'm not completely useless around an engine bay, but as for performance I dont know where to start so any help would be good.

I think 150rwkw is achievable without too much hassle, I just need to know how to get there

Thanks

[private9]

I personally think you'd struggle getting to 150 with a standard cam.

Have a look through Casper's threads, as I recall he tried alot of different things with his AU VCT and posted up plenty of results too.

[RG]

Any reason for the 3" exhaust, on an NA application it's too big IMO. A 2.5" would be better suited.

Remember all out peak power figures are only good for bragging rights to other dyno queens. For the street it's all about torque and driveability and for the track it is how that power is made.

[pmpdau]

Well 3'' isnt necessary, ill probably go 2.5'' i just wanted it there incase i ever went for forced induction.
Well what what you recommend? Becuase dyno isnt really a big issue I just want something with plenty of go and can perform with motorkhana and track work.

Has anyone got links to caspers threads, i cant seem to find them ><

[EvilChief]

match the exhaust to the cam package, when i build my 6cyl non VCT, i used a cam that required a pretty high flowing exhaust, lost bottem end power and torque but mid and top range was right on the money.

used a twin 2.5" system with two cats (yes on a 4ltr), and it made a touch over 150

[The Monty]

3 inch is not too big on an NA six, so dont stress. 3 inch is great. After all the naysayers on here, not one person has came out with a dyno sheet, or 1/4 mile time reflecting a loss of power due to using a 3 inch exhaust. Just get it, and when everyone says how bad they are, just laugh at them.
2.5 inch on the other hand, is not to small for a 6, its personal choice, if you want to boost it in 5 years, you will already have one part you wont need to rebuy.
Just think, Stav, Stiddy, The monty, and my new car all run 3 inch, and obviously none of us have any problems.
OED666 runs a three inch, and all the fast Bseries guys use the twin 2 1/4 XR6t exhausts, with a collective flow of 3.14 inches.
Jim mock is bringing out a three inch option on some of his packages, and RDP reccomended a three inch on mine.
At the track, I picked up .1 on the 60ft, recorded higher trap speeds, and 1/4 time, plus faster and quicker 1/8 mile times, if it was loosing torque, this is where it would show up.
As for 150 kw, this is what I have done to reach it, and keep in mind this is for non VCT engine.

3 inch cat, 3 inch cat back. Pacie comps (4480) modified to not taper to 2.5 inch, but collect and stay at 3 inch to the cat.
Intake, which was crap and way to restrictive, go a 3 inch mandrel bent one, with one of those airboxes from the group buy.
My head was cleaned up by Headsense, dags and everything taken off, and cleaned up, it wasnt extensively ported, and talkiing to chiptorque, any more of a port job on it, would have resulted in a loss of power.
JMM valve springs, JMM valve spring retainers.
Surecam billet cam, .535 lift, 218@.050 duration set at 0 degress.
Crow Cams adjustable vernier gear.
I have a 3000rpm stall, and that sucks a fair bit of power out of the old i6, my tuner suggests 10kw plus.
I also have a tune from Chiptorque at Nerang, awesome bunch of guys and really know there 6's.
If you were to change cam, is there anyway of disconnecting the VCT unit, and just running a normal cam in the VCT head, with VCT disabled?
Or get a cam that liked to be advaned to the certain amount of degrees that VCT advances, so when VCT advances the cam, Id see know problem with a decent power gain, but down low you would suffer big time.

As for brakes, PBR callipers come on all AU's, depending on what year model it is (too much bodykit to tell, lol) youd want to do a series 2/3 brake conversion on the front, if you read the Monty's build thread, I have posted how I done it, with photos, and parts and tools needed, would cost around $3-500.

Shocks and swaybars are all up to you, depending on how much you are willing to spend. For a cheaper shock, BOGE are excelent value ($220 a pair), for a more expensive one, Koni adjustable ($450 a pair).

Get an XR8 snorkle, or XR6t, I think they are all the same, unless you can manage to find a tickford one, then youll get the wings with it.

Hope that helps in some way, if you need anything else, PM me, and Ill talk you through it there.

Josh

[pmpdau]

Guys theres no need to stress out as josh knows I originally wanted go for a blower but at the moment that isnt an option, but down the track it may be so 3'' would be the smarter option in the long term.

The car is a late series 2, so brake upgrades shouldnt be a problem. I should have been more specific when I siad PBR's i meant the red ones that come from the BA XR series.

Originally Posted by The Monty

3 inch cat, 3 inch cat back. Pacie comps (4480) modified to not taper to 2.5 inch, but collect and stay at 3 inch to the cat.
Intake, which was crap and way to restrictive, go a 3 inch mandrel bent one, with one of those airboxes from the group buy.
My head was cleaned up by Headsense, dags and everything taken off, and cleaned up, it wasnt extensively ported, and talkiing to chiptorque, any more of a port job on it, would have resulted in a loss of power.
JMM valve springs, JMM valve spring retainers.
Surecam billet cam, .535 lift, 218@.050 duration set at 0 degress.
Crow Cams adjustable vernier gear.
I have a 3000rpm stall, and that sucks a fair bit of power out of the old i6, my tuner suggests 10kw plus.
I also have a tune from Chiptorque at Nerang, awesome bunch of guys and really know there 6's.

Josh

So out of the list there, the mods in bold would be the only ones i couldnt do correct?

If it's auto, do a rear end change to 3.7 or 3.9.

Ok your talking to a person that is having his first crack at modding a car.
Im assuming your talking about my diff ratio, but what difference does it actually make?

Also what are the point of a 3000rpm stall? I've never really got it :(

[Sox]

Originally Posted by pmpdau

Guys theres no need to stress out as josh knows I originally wanted go for a blower but at the moment that isnt an option, but down the track it may be so 3'' would be the smarter option in the long term.

It also may never happen. Plans change, and live with what works better now. If it's year from now, then it could be time for a new exhaust then anyhow.

The car is a late series 2, so brake upgrades shouldnt be a problem. I should have been more specific when I siad PBR's i meant the red ones that come from the BA XR series.

Don't bother, just fit decent pads, it makes a huge difference and if it's staying on the road, then it will be more than plenty.
These cars are light, and how often do you multiple stops in a row from 160kph plus?

So out of the list there, the mods in bold would be the only ones i couldnt do correct?

Sounds about right.
I wouldn't bother with a high stall either, particularly if you change the rear end ratio.

Ok your talking to a person that is having his first crack at modding a car.
Im assuming your talking about my diff ratio, but what difference does it actually make?

Yes, and makes the engine feel more repsonsive through any gear. Revs through each gear quicker. Usually improves overtaking as any change down means a little higher in the rev range at a given speed.
Gear changes are one of the best bang for your buck IMO, next to extractors and exhaust.

Also what are the point of a 3000rpm stall? I've never really got it :(

In short, it's simply allowing the engine to flash up to a higher RPM before the car moves.
Similar to revving higher and dumping the clutch in a manual car.

As I said above, less important if shortening the rear end ratio, and a bit dubious on the street anyway. But that just my opinion, others I'm sure disagree.

For the record, I'd do a manual conversion way before I'd ever consider a stall change, or any auto modification.
Autos belong to Corolla driving grannys, not in a performance street car.

[Sox]

The VCT can make 150rwkw easily enough.

Forget a 3" exhaust, waste of time. Just get a 2.5" system with decent mufflers.

Don't bother with LPG either, complete waste of money. More difficult to make decent power and takes a long time to recoup the money spent, unless you're travelling 50k a year. Otherwise gas should only be used on BBQ's.

Just get the bigger Tickford snorkel and replace the plastic piece which joins to the airbox lid with a 3" piece of exhaust pipe with a slight bend. Standard air filter element works fine.

To reach 150rwkw from here you'll need either a good tune via a flash, or a decent head job. Personally I think the head job is better.

Bingo! You'll have 150rwkw+.
If you do both the tune and head, you might even reach 160rwkw.

If it's auto, do a rear end change to 3.7 or 3.9.
If it's manual, don't bother, or maybe just go to 3.7.

Don't bother with the camber kit, they don't need them. A handful of shims is all that's needed.
Use Koni yellow, or Bilstein shocks, money permitting. They are expensive, but well worth it. You'll likely only need a bigger front bar, 27mm should do the trick.

Pad quality is far more important than the type of disks. Slotted, drilled, etc, will have little effect on stopping ability. Pad quality has an enormous effect.
You don't mention if it's a series 1 or 2/3.
If it's 1, then do a 2/3 upgrade. If it's 2/3, then just get new decent pads.

[The Monty]

So everyone saying a three inch is a waste of time has tried a three inch on there N/A six?

[Sox]

Originally Posted by The Monty

So everyone saying a three inch is a waste of time has tried a three inch on there N/A six?

Don't get on ya high horse mate, relax.

Read the context in which I'm saying a 3" is a waste of time. The OP stated he is after approx 150rwkw, and at that power figure, a 3" system IS 100% a waste of time and money.

Without letting this get into a my dicks bigger than yours thread, all things have there place, however not one item is always good for all purposes.

I've said it in the past, and I'll say it again.

For street driven cars with power levels below around 170rwkw, a 2.5" system is ideal.

For power levels above 170rwkw and a fair bit of drag racing / track days, then a 3" system is a better idea.

Bigger is not always better, and what suits one person, may not suit the next.

[Mont5.0]

yes the 3.7's are diff gears, In an auto will get you off the line quicker.

[The Monty]

OKie dokie, the bold ones you wouldnt need, or the valve springs and retainers.
Diff gears affect how fast your car is going in a certain gear, and how long that gear lasts. You would have 3.08, or 3.23 diff gears. Youd be able to 80 in first, 125 in second, and 180 in third.
To change to say 3.9 diff gears, youd go 65 in first, 100 in second, and 150 in third. These are a guess, as my speedo isnt corrected, and I dont have stock limiter.
This means you will be into your peak torque and rev range earlier, instead of travelling from 0-40km's an hour to hit a bit of power, you only need to go 0-25.
A stall converter is harder to explain, find of like the ability to slip your clutch.
Most here go for a 3000rpm stall converter.
If you put your foot on the brake, and throttle, it will slip to say 3000rpm, and then foot off the brake, its like launching a manual at 3000rpm.
There is also flash stalling, which is how much it will "slip" when you give it a stab whilst driving, say at 60km'h in third, give it a stab, and it might flash up to 2800rpm, like being higher in the rev range without actually being higher.
These are great for drag racing, standard converter will stall to 1900.
Thats about as good as I can explain them for you.
Josh

[The Monty]

If you do diff gears and stall, be carefull in the wet, they arent a good combination.