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#1 | ||
Starter Motor
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 9
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Is there really any advantage to running synthetic oil in my fg engine over mineral oils.. I am a mechanic but still confused!!
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#2 | ||
MY2010 SV6 SIDI -Black-
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Townsville
Posts: 640
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synthetic oils are more resistant to heat and breaking down of the base components, offering better protection to modern engines.
Im NOT a mechanic and wouldn't have anything OTHER than full synth in any of my engines. been a fan of Nulon 10-30 and 5-30 full synth for years. Ice |
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#3 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,801
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Quote:
Synthetic Oil manufacturers are certainly not shy of making claims for their full synthetic formulations but I note that: 1. There are 3 formulations of oil that Castrol make that meet the 5W-20 spec for the new 5.0 Supercharged motor. Two full synthetic and 1 semi synthetic. FPV chose the semi synthetic formulation. 2. Mercedes-benz have partnered up with Mobil 1 for years and used their full synthetic Mobil 1 oils in their engines, (Mobil 1 is perhaps the oldest full synthetic manufacturer ?), but have very recently shifted to making their own formulation, (probably a deal with one of the main oil manufacturers, rebranded with M Benz own label) and are now using semi synthetic in their cars. Honestly...If the oldest car manufactuer in the world has changed to semi synthetics, just maybe the full syntheitc formulations arn't all they're cracked up to be, makes you think doesn't it ? All I have to back up this assertion is what these manufacturers are doing and some far less than stellar used oil samples for Mobil 1 i've seen on www.bobistheoilguy.com, arguably the world's foremost website for oil. My 2 cents. |
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#4 | ||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,553
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rodge - it could also just be a cost issue. maybe the semi synthetics are getting the job done for less cost.
the way i look at it is for a standard engine, all oils will do the job but the working life of the oil will be different, with mineral shortest and full synthetic longest. with full synthetic, i have no problem running my car to factory intervals (12 month/15000km) but would probably cut that by at least 60-70% for a mineral (3-4months/5000km). semi synth somewhere in the middle. oils is one of those topics where you will never have everyone agreeing. all i do is choose an oil i am happy with (i've used shell helix ultra for over 10years) and stick with it. there are added benefits to continual use of a product. as long as the oil meets or exceeds manufacturer spec, it will probably do the job on a standard, unmodified engine. |
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#5 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,801
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Prydey, you've probably got a valid point and knowing M Benz they'll be making one heck of a mark-up on their branded M Benz semi-synthetic.
That said some of the AMG Benz's are making huge horsepower and they're recommending the same semi-synthetic's for those too. |
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#6 | |||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,553
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Quote:
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#7 | ||
Starter Motor
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 9
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Cheers for all the replies I was tossing up between shell and Mobil I haven't heard much about nulon.
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#8 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Brisbane, Qld
Posts: 3,321
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I would go as far to say that synthetic oils are better. As well as the fact that they hold up better under extreme temperature than mineral oils do, they clean out old oil sludge deposits.
I recently used synthetic oil in my Datsun L20B motor after using 20W-50 mineral oil and what I noticed was the temperature gauge stays lower when constantly driving meaning there's less friction. |
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#9 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,293
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Wikipedia has a great article on synthetic oils and also mentions semi synthetic oils...LINK
and from the article advantages and disadvantages of synthetic oil: Quote:
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#10 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Brisbane, Qld
Posts: 3,321
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Quote:
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#11 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,293
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Contamination of the oil through normal running is a bigger issue then the oil itself,
remember that only bypass oil is filtered and once it begins to clog, the oil system bypasses it. Regular oil changes are the key, when i used to run my EBII back in the early 1990s, I found the fuel economy dropped off by about 1 l/100 km after around 8,000 km but once I replaced the oil and filter, back it came and running sweet as a nut. |
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#12 | ||
Member 178
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Rockhampton
Posts: 1,385
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Anybody use synthetic oils in their classic cars?
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#13 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 650
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Most mechanics i have asked have said not to bother with synthetic oils in older cars
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#14 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 44
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been using nulon synthetic oil in my au for many years,it has 501000 on it,no rebuilds.also using 15w50 on a clevo 302.
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#15 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Brisbane, Qld
Posts: 3,321
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I would like to see it proven whether there's any consequences if you use synthetic oil in an old engine. It's probably true that there's no point bothering with synthetic oils in old engines, but if it's believed to have negative affects, what are they?
I'm assuming the myth is that it might react with an obsolete gasket/seal material that might still be present in old engines or something...? |
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#16 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Botany, Sydney
Posts: 830
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Quote:
No reactions. All other changes are benefits, cleaning better etc Cheers
__________________
MainLube - Extreme Lubricants For Overdriven Machinery Mainlube 175 Synthetic Race Oil SAE 10w60 (engine) Mainlube 154 Synthetic Solid Boundary E P Gear Oil SAE 75w80 (gearbox) Mainlube 154 Synthetic Solid Boundary E P Gear Oil SAE 75w140 (diff) www.Mainlube.com.au |
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#17 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SA
Posts: 5,213
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There seems to be a certain amount of confusion about who makes the best motor oil. A lot of emphasis today is put on synthetic oils. It reminds me of the 70's when all the professional ball teams had to have astro turf. Now everyone is realizing the 'synthetic' grass leaves a lot to be desired and the new stadiums are not using it. And remember Polyester double knit 'Leisure' suits? Comparably, as synthetic oils are becoming more widely used its shortcomings are becoming more pronounced. Engine builders are expressing problems with detonation due to poor wiping of synthetic oils coupled with the fact that synthetic oil does not burn as easily as do petroleum oils. As the piston returns on compression stoke, the oil that didn't wipe completely off is forced on top of the piston and since it doesn't burn, it will pile up on the top of the piston and up compression until you get detonation. Another problem expressed is leaking due to; the reaction of synthetic base stocks with gaskets and seals, and because of the very nature of the thin viscosity. synthetic oil base stock contains no solvent quality therefore resulting in a greater problem in carbon and sludge builds up. Cylinder scuffing piston scuffing are serious problems associated with the thin viscosity of synthetic.
Competition racing requires getting the most horsepower out of an engine as possible. This must be tempered with ability of a lubricant to protect the engine. Most people do not have unlimited funds to gain the very max in HP at the sacrifice of the engine. It's time for engine oil that gives the HP gains synthetic oils do and at the same time protect the engine even better than the heavy petroleum oils used for many years. Using a top quality premium solvent neutral base stock with an additive package that incorporates some synthetic additive packages along with newest technology VI improvers and friction modifiers the ability to manufacture a truly custom blend oil that is far superior to any petroleum and meets and exceeds HP gains with synthetic oils is a reality. This is the need ULX110 has addressed. ULX110 is a highly refined emerald green crankcase oil, engineered from top quality solvent neutral base stocks, and the very best nonshear viscosity index improvers, along with three performance additives, ULX110 also contains 2 specialty additives, one a completely oil soluble friction reducer with anti-wear and extreme pressure properties, and a unique viscosity stabilizer and acid neutralizer ingredient. From ULX110 site. |
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#18 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,293
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Quote:
have moved away from them years ago as synth and blended synth has been out for decades. |
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#19 | ||
Starter Motor
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mt Dandenong, Melbourne
Posts: 7
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I have been told by my mechanic that synthetic oils in older engines can have a habit of seeping through the sump gasket as it is alot thinner but I don't know how true this is because I have only used mineral oils in my panelvan and never had this issue.
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#20 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Parkdale, Vic
Posts: 1,016
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My old Ducati 900SS commuter used to leak from the seals when I used synthetic oil. I switched to a heavier grade Penrite mineral oil and it stopped leaking. I only use synthetic in my race engines though.
__________________
"You can't fight stupid people - there's just too many of them" |
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#21 | |||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,553
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#22 | |||
Unintended Perfectionist
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Brissy North
Posts: 2,196
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Quote:
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BA-FG parts for sale. http://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11411117 http://s1092.photobucket.com/user/my...?sort=3&page=1 The XR re-erection in the works http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11386452 |
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#23 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SA
Posts: 5,213
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Quote:
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#24 | ||
Starter Motor
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 9
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Well there's a heap of interesting discussion bout oil when all I really wanted to know if benefits in using synthetic on my fg ute would be worth the extra $60 for oil.
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#25 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,099
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I use full synthetic oil in my new cars, but the Falcon gets Nulon 15W-40 mineral haha, no point putting expensive oil in an older car I don't know the history of.
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#26 | ||
SY TS AWD LPG TEZZA
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Perth
Posts: 2,383
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I intend to keep my Territory forever. I do my services myself. At the moment my engine doesn't burn a drop of oil in 10000km. (I slightly overfilled it by about a mm on the dipstick and after 10000km there is still a mm overfilled on the dipstick). The way I look at it, the extra stability of a fully synthetic oil which is sourced from class 4 and up components will enable the motor to continue operating well for longer than a straight mineral oil. Mineral oils under heavy load will start to break down easier than a fully synthetic oil.
I'm using Penrite racing 5w-30 no shear in my Territory which I buy in a 20L drum. So far on the open road I'm convinced that it is giving me an improvement of a L/100km over the 10W-40 Everyday Penrite synthetic I was using before which was cheaper. It's a very runny oil, but the no shear properties give it that thin low friction ability without a metal on metal event occuring. I wouldn't use the 5W-30 on anything before the BA engine though as the clearances are a bit bigger on the AU and back. I wouldn't have any issue using a fully synthetic oil of correct viscosity in an old motor though.
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1st car 75 XB Fairmont wagon 302C converted to 351C. 2nd car 82 ZK Fairlane 351C 4spd AOD LPG/Avgas 3rd car 97 EL Falcon police car 4L auto dual fuel 4th car 90 XF ute (work car) 5th car 06 SY TS AWD Territory Orbital LPi 6th car 95 XG ute 7th car 2014 SZ Territory TX Petrol Fords all my life. |
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#27 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Tablelands. NSW
Posts: 894
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I have been using synthetic oil, mainly Mobile 1, for the last 15 years and about a million km, apart from running them in for the first 5,000 km with mineral oil.
The first was an XE Falcon which I rebuilt and, ran to 330,000 Km before the body rusted away. The motor had never been touched apart from replacing the spark plugs and and the rear crankshaft packing, It still ran like new and idled without any fumes from the rocker cover. I sold the motor to a mechanic to rebuild, but when he pulled it down no work was needed, even the rings and piston grooves were still OK. almost no lip on the bores. The second is an 03 Subaru Forester, now with 400,000 km on the clock. Motor has never been touched apart from normal serviceing, uses about 2 litres of oil between changes, (12,500 km), Motor is still running as smoothly as the day we bought it. My 07 SY Territory has now covered 180,000 km, motor is still good as new, goes 15,000 between oil changes, oil consumption is no more than a few hundred ml. I also started using synthetic in my XM Falcon about ten years ago without any problems. As soon as I started using it all the lifter noise stopped. I dont think there is any advantage in using synthetic oil if you are going only keep your car for two or three years but if you plan to do big mileages and keep your car for a long time it's worth it. If you live in a cold climate synthetic oil has the advantage that it does not thicken when it gets cold. Some years ago I put samples of synthetic oil and mineral oil and cooled it down to about -15C. The mineral oil had become thick and hard like refrigerated honey and would not pour, the synthetic oil had not thickened at all. Not only is there far less wear when the motor is cold but it will be easier to start ![]() |
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#28 | ||
2003 BA Falcon XT
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Wyndhamvale, Victoria
Posts: 1,138
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Shell Helix HX7 10w-40 here.
However I think the oil chosen isn't of too much consequence for an everyday driver. At the end of the day the body and all the other components will wear out while you'll have a great engine with no body! It's pretty safe to say that the majority of people keep their cars for less than 10 years or 200,000 anyway before up grading. Personally I change my oil every 4 months or 5,000km. Doesn't matter if it's a diesel or petrol. I think the Helix is a semi-synthetic. Has very good cleaning properties. Comes out brown.
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2003 BA Ford Falcon XT IMPCO LPG Vapour Injection. DETAILING Meguiar's NXT Car Wash Collonite #845 Insulator Wax Bowden's Own Happy Ending & Fully Slick Chemtech CT-18 Truck Wash (Wheels & Chassis) Bowden's Own Wheely Clean & Tyre Sheen Bowden's Own Three Way Paint Decontamination Spray OILS AND FILTERS Nulon Full Synthetic 10w-40 Nulon Long Life Coolant Ryco Oil & Air Filters My Instagram Account: @ba_falcon2003
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#29 | ||
Mad Scientist!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 2,840
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With manufacturer's changing to thinner oils, does this influence what people will put in their vehicle?
I mean a FG 6 cyl recommends 5-30W oil, s-v8 requires 5-20W oils - would it be bad for eg to put a 5-40W in the 6 or 10-40W? What would be the downside to increaseing the last value? There is a positive it that these oils are cheaper, but is there any significant issues that could occur? BTW, i've been running Nulon 5-30W in my FG XR6 since 20K, and i find it a great oil. |
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#30 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,801
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^^MBenz inadvertantly put 0W-40 Mobil 1 in my Merc, should have had Mobil 1 5W-30 ESP Oil, (low saps). Fuel consumption increased by about 0.5L/100 km and it stuffed the diesel particulate filter but that's another story...
I'd say no harm from a 5 or 10W-40 semi synthetic like Castrol Magnatec in a NA Inline 6 engine but you'd probably see a similar fuel consumption increase which would probably more than negate any savings in the oil's initial cost. |
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