Still trying to figure out the problem. How do my sparks look?

rowan194 · 27-11-2011, 05:04 PM

Front (#1) is the leftmost spark, rear is the rightmost

I noticed that #2 has more gunk on its threads than the others, but the tip looks pretty much the same. #4 has a more pronounced burn mark on the white part below the tip. I replaced them all earlier this year, maybe about 8 months ago.

I still have the packet and was surprised to see they came with a 1.3mm gap; I re-set them today to just under 1.1mm.

I can hear a burbling chugging sort of noise coming from around the rear of the engine, it only became apparent a week or two ago, so I'm wondering if #4 has anything to do with it, or whether it's an exhaust leak. It's a bit hard to tell if it's the wind fanning rich exhaust towards me but I think the smell may actually be coming from inside the engine bay. I checked the exhaust manifold bolts and some of them did need mild tightening (about 1/8th turn) but nothing super loose. I haven't yet checked the flange where the manifold joins, or the split in the manifold.

I also pulled each spark plug in turn before starting the engine to see if it was a simple misfire, but deliberately running on 5 cylinders is definitely worse than my prob.

I had to top up the oil a bit today, can't remember ever having to do that, and it's only been 5000km since the last oil change, so maybe it's something internal this time. :(

rowan194 · 27-11-2011, 05:18 PM

Ehh, if these are Bosch Super Plus (seem to be from my pics) then maybe they're not even the right sparks.

http://www.bosch.com.au/content/language1/html/5678.htm

"For vehicles built from 1955 - 1995"

Here's a vid of the engine starting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie7uVKxONKs

**Whoosha** · 27-11-2011, 06:30 PM

For 8 months, it would depend on the Ks #4 could be from detonation (pinging) but nothing to obvious , Gurgling noise could be from the PCV valve. hard to call with out seeing and hearing it

rowan194 · 27-11-2011, 06:35 PM

It's not gurgling, just a more sort of throaty note when idling, and a mild chugging... sounds kind of cool, but its not so cool because you know it means something is wrong, lol.

Here's a vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie7uVKxONKs

Car has done just under 200,000km and the sparks from OP have probably done about 10,000km

Jimmyd · 27-11-2011, 07:15 PM

Hard to hear anything over the shagged power steering pump

FreddyDUZ747 · 27-11-2011, 07:20 PM

Looks like some have valve stem seal marks.I wouldnt be to concerned tbh

rowan194 · 27-11-2011, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyd

Hard to hear anything over the shagged power steering pump

? Are you serious? How do you know it's the PS? Can you please give me more detail?

mongrelEF · 27-11-2011, 08:17 PM

That dry, rattly whine? That's your PS pump telling you a: it has no oil, or b: it's dying. Fast.
The burble sounds like an exhaust leak at the manifold as far as the video lets me hear, try spraying some soapy water on the joints when cold, then strt it and see if any bubbles appear......

Plugs - #4 looks like it's been getting oily - as above could be stem seals. a puff of blue smoke when you rev it would confirm that. Since it's a head off job unless you have access to compressed air, it might not be worth worrying about just yet.

rowan194 · 27-11-2011, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongrelEF

That dry, rattly whine? That's your PS pump telling you a: it has no oil, or b: it's dying. Fast.

Ouch. Well there's definitely oil as I checked fluids today, so...

The whine has been there for at least a few months, around the last time I cleaned the throttle body and reset the ECU; I figured it was just the engine running a bit better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongrelEF

The burble sounds like an exhaust leak at the manifold as far as the video lets me hear, try spraying some soapy water on the joints when cold, then strt it and see if any bubbles appear......

Cheers. Yeah, when I last had the exhaust manifold off I started the car just out of curiosity, it made a real racket, a very unusual noise compared to normal. The more I hear what it sounds like now the more I think it sounds like the manifold-less exhaust, just at a lower level. I reckon (hope) that I didn't fully tighten the flange bolts below the manifold, and the exhaust pipe has dropped a little creating a gap.

Or the exhaust gasket cement I used has cracked and created a gap...

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongrelEF

Plugs - #4 looks like it's been getting oily - as above could be stem seals. a puff of blue smoke when you rev it would confirm that. Since it's a head off job unless you have access to compressed air, it might not be worth worrying about just yet.

I tried some Nulon foaming throttle body cleaner a couple of months ago, and one of the steps was piston crown cleaning: remove the sparks, spray the cleaner into the open holes, and crank the engine. I wonder if that's done something to the seals.

mongrelEF · 28-11-2011, 12:21 AM

Please tell me you used a new exhaust gasket?

Have you noticed any signs of smoke at all?
Usually when I clean motors, I pour a litre of water down the intake while holding the revs at 2000, so don't stress too much about a little carby cleaner :hehe

rowan194 · 28-11-2011, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongrelEF

Please tell me you used a new exhaust gasket?

Yep, of course.

Also replaced the gasket at the manifold split. I used a modest amount of exhaust gasket cement on both faces of the gaskets, and also at the flange join (which now that I think about it, is a pretty "flexible" join, not so rigid)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongrelEF

Have you noticed any signs of smoke at all?

No. Will let it idle then rev it a bit tomorrow to see what happens.

Mr Hardware · 28-11-2011, 11:06 AM

If you're even remotely concerned about the health of your spark plugs, just change them. NGK BPR5EY-11 for petrol - just change them anyway, they're like $4 each.

rowan194 · 02-12-2011, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rowan194

I reckon (hope) that I didn't fully tighten the flange bolts below the manifold, and the exhaust pipe has dropped a little creating a gap.

Ok, it turns out these nuts were a bit loose, compared to the old studs I have (they seized so I replaced them) so I used the old ones as reference and tightened them both.

Couldn't tell whether it made things a bit better, but it certainly didn't FIX the prob... could still hear the burbling, chugging, and smell exhaust gases from the engine bay. :(

So the next thing to check in that area was the rotating join of the exhaust manifold. I was dreading removing the exhaust manifold (breaking my cement seal, possibly needing a new gasket) but I managed to get a torque wrench onto 2 of the screws of the join, and did the third one "by feel" with a ring spanner, using the other 2 as reference. They were definitely not correct, I had to tighten all three about 3/4 to 1 turn more.

That seems to have fixed it (touchwood). I'll be able to tell for sure later today on the school run.

As for the oil, I'm going to try some Nulon's stop leak, it's a bit sad that my engine needs it now, but it's nearly 200,000km old and it did miss a couple of services (in the past! I do oil and filter every 10k on the dot now), so I guess it's to be expected...

rowan194 · 02-12-2011, 12:17 PM

I took another vid of it, when you compare them there's a definite improvement.

Before: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie7uVKxONKs

After: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra-E6zrtPa8 (watch the ratchet jump...oops...forget that was there.

)

Mr Hardware · 02-12-2011, 01:17 PM

yeah, i can hear the rumble has gone, but THE WHINE! FIX THE BLOODY WHINE!

rowan194 · 02-12-2011, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

If you're even remotely concerned about the health of your spark plugs, just change them. NGK BPR5EY-11 for petrol - just change them anyway, they're like $4 each.

Curious, where did you get that ref? ngk.com.au suggests IGR5C13

http://www.ngk.com.au/sparkplug_vehicle_type.php

Ford -> Fairmont -> AUIII 4.0L MPFI, 6 Cyl, OHC, 157kW, 357Nm

As for the whine, I'll see about asking Mr. Ford how much a new pump is going to set me back.

edit: I see now that BPR5EY-11 is for a series 2 engine. IGR5C13 seem to be the expensive ($20ea) platinum ones...

rowan194 · 06-12-2011, 10:38 PM

It gets stranger...

I put my old sparks (would have been from 2005 or earlier) back in after I started this thread to see if there was any noticeable difference in engine note. Kept them in for a few days.

Fixed the exhaust leak and the chugging stopped. So did this unusual buzzing noise at a certain point on my afternoon route, sounds a bit like the hum of a whiney little 4 cylinder engine in a pulsar or corolla, not the sort of thing you would expect from a big 6. This noise started maybe 6-8 weeks ago.

I've since changed back to the newer sparks, and I noticed today the buzz is BACK.

I don't know if it's coincidence... guess I'll leave it a couple more days then swap sparks again, to see if the noise disappears...

One other thing I've noticed is that there's no longer a hot brake kind of smell when I've been driving a while. The exhaust leak must have been cooking something nearby...