HUNDREDS of speeding tickets issued to Queensland motorists could be in doubt

[csv8]

HUNDREDS of speeding tickets issued to Queensland motorists could be in doubt after a Lamborghini-driving Brisbane millionaire challenged the accuracy of a police radar gun.

Police admitted in court the radar was faulty for more than eighth months, yet they still continued to use it to book drivers. My comment just shows the arrogance of the police and they have been caught out.

Property developer Scott Flynn mounted a legal challenge after being booked for allegedly driving his black Lamborghini 137km/h in an 80km/h zone on Mt Glorious Rd near Samford last year.

Mr Flynn hired Gold Coast celebrity lawyer Christ Nyst, who grilled police in Brisbane Magistrates Court about the accuracy of the radar.

During the court case this month, police admitted under questioning from Mr Nyst that the speed gun had previously failed a routine calibration test.

A police radar expert conceded the faulty calibration could affect the accuracy of all the radar gun's readings between October 6, 2010, and June 19, 2011.


Speaking outside the court, Mr Nyst accused police of trying to block information about the faulty gun, saying uncovering the evidence had been "far from an easy task".

"The courts rely on the accuracy of these machines," Mr Nyst said.

"In fact they are presumed as a matter of law to be functioning accurately, unless the contrary is proven.

"So you would hope the relevant information would be made readily available, but that wasn't our experience.

"Despite a string of requests and summonses we couldn't get the police to give us the relevant records. In fact, it wasn't until we got to court and the magistrate stepped in that they were finally handed over."

Mr Nyst said that once he finally gained access to the records, "it was pretty obvious police had been using an inadequately calibrated gun".

"But I'm left to wonder how many other such radar guns have been presumed by courts to be functioning accurately, when they weren't," he said.

The matter was adjourned to a date to be fixed for the magistrate's decision.

A Columbia University architecture school graduate, Mr Flynn, 31, heads Newstead-based Kenlynn Properties with his younger brother Anthony and their father Peter.

The Flynn siblings have been Queensland's highest fundraisers in the past two CEO Sleepouts run by the St Vincent de Paul Society.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/q...-1226438008469

[EDManual]

Awesome stuff!!

I have been caught twice by inaccurate radar! And I 100% am positive.





Once I had cruise on a dead flat straight road coming up to a corner, sitting on 109km/h. Got done at 113, and they said coming round the corner my speed was as high as 115, which coming around a corner should read less not more!
I have been past hundreds of police at 9 over on gps, they do not bother for a 1 pointer, if 112 or more (- 2 for inaccuracy, thats 110 alleged and 3 points), thats 3 points they do both to pull you over.

One other time in SA got dond doing 125 where I was doing 115, couldnt believe how far out they were, cant fight in court as am from VIC.

I have tried before where they used incorrect technique but judge didnt agree, however was encouraged to go to the county court by would you believe the police prosecutor who thought I had a case! but I couldnt be bothered.

The judge protects the govts money making laws and wont hurt them if they can help it!

[2011G6E]

Ah, police radar devices...the only scientific measuring instrument in the world that doesn't need to be calibrated regularly (I know it's supposed to be...but... ), that it apparently doesn't matter what environmental conditioned are around as it's always 100% infallibly accurate, and which doesn't need a set placement to measure what it's measuring.

If you told a scientist to devise a machine to measure the speed of an object, they will first want to know wat type of object...it's exact size, reflectivity, shape, and what angle it will be approaching from...they will then want to know what sort of controlled conditions it will be being measured under...temperature, humidity, surrounding surfaces, etc...and they will then want to know the location where you will be doing the testing.

Hopping out of a car and pointing at some approaching cars at any old time of the day just won't do for a repeatable, accurate measurement...

...but apparently it is...

[jpd80]

The beak should have gone further and hauled the commissioner over the coals for the way
this branch behaved and for him to report back on the status of any other dodgy radar guns.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The beak should have gone further and hauled the commissioner over the coals for the way
this branch behaved and for him to report back on the status of any other dodgy radar guns.

Give it time.

[malazn mafia]

Oh the joys of being a millionaire driving a Lamborghini. Mr Average Joe in his Falcon would never stand a chance in court.

[Bossxr8]

I want to know why speeding fines are a case of guilty until proven innocent, when every other law is the opposite.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I want to know why speeding fines are a case of guilty until proven innocent, when every other law is the opposite.

Except of course, tax law...

And centrelink when you tell them to stop sending unemployment cheques, but they keep doing it
and brand you a thief because you're accepting payments while working..( happened to a good friend)

[Sorted]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I want to know why speeding fines are a case of guilty until proven innocent, when every other law is the opposite.

Not to forget so called Hooning Offences - guilty until proven innocent but DUI innocent until proven guilty

About time some rich person with a lot of cash and nothing to lose takes action - now to do it with speed cameras

[kenz]

Well I got a speeding fine in that period and was 100% convinced it was dodgey. I was speeding I admit that but not as much as I got fined for which put me into the next bracket of fines above what I was meant to be in. So what's the go if it's already been paid, don't think I really stand a chance of getting my money back. Absolute stitch up

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Sorted

About time some rich person with a lot of cash and nothing to lose takes action - now to do it with speed cameras

Here here.

[TheInterceptor]

Great stuff! Well done to the rich bloke.


This is why people hit the picks apon seeing a radar weilding cobber...or any money theft device that are strewn across our country for that matter.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I want to know why speeding fines are a case of guilty until proven innocent, when every other law is the opposite.

I was absolutely livid listening to the radio the other day where Neil Mitchell was talking to Victoria Police Inspector Martin Boorman who oversees roadside drug testing. He was talking to him about 6 people who were wrongly convicted of taking drugs and driving and then had to wait 6 odd weeks before tests came back which proved them to be in the clear.

While it is a big yes, drug driving is an issue that needs to be dealt with and harshly, it was the arrogance that drive me mad with the inspector admitting that the 'inconvenience' is for the good of all.

What made me mad is the way he fobbed of the fact that 100% innocent people had their life absolutely put on hold until they could prove, by themselves getting blood tests, that they had done nothing wrong.

This is only 6 people but I am sure there is more ...... like speed cameras ..... but believe this is a worse situation to be in.

As stated in the report that 93% are proven positive. That is nearly 1 in 10 who have to go through crap to prove their innocence ..... not for the police or courts to prove their guilt.

The arrogance of the system for the supposed greater good (speed cameras for the greater revenue) is becoming too common and accepted. I might be wrong in this case but if it was me or you caught up with a wrongful test and have to endure the heatache of proving your innocense might think the same. Collateral damage?

Story and interview here .....

http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/neil-mit...629-216b9.html

"We look at the gains we've made since we've had this system in place in terms of lives lost and injuries prevented, a little bit of inconvenience is a price I think the community would tolerate to save lives," he said.

[Rusty62]

Originally Posted by kenz

Well I got a speeding fine in that period and was 100% convinced it was dodgey. I was speeding I admit that but not as much as I got fined for which put me into the next bracket of fines above what I was meant to be in. So what's the go if it's already been paid, don't think I really stand a chance of getting my money back. Absolute stitch up

I had this exact same experience, they couldn't even show me the radar reading because the police car pulled me over (I was on a motorcycle) then dropped an officer off to book me (the passenger), then the driver sped off with spinning rear tyres to get the car in front of me. I paid the fine within the 21 days and wrote a detailed letter of explanation to the Police dept (which was a complete waste of time). I got a written reply saying that once its paid there's no avenue to dispute it. I gave up then, but if I'd had the time I reckon it would have been worth a legal opinion.
IMO they rely on the fact that most of us couldn't be bothered with the time off work etc to attend court and argue the matter.

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by Rusty62

IMO they rely on the fact that most of us couldn't be bothered with the time off work etc to attend court and argue the matter.

E.X.A.C.T.L.Y.


in other countries they would burn down the station.

Like i said previously, unless you get 100,000 people sitting in on every parliament house around australia, AND REFUSING TO MOVE, until they change the law, they won't do a damn thing because they care about whats in your pocket more then about you.

[grandpa_spec_F6]

The government should be afraid of it's people... not the other way around... Australia lost it's way long ago.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

I was absolutely livid listening to the radio the other day where Neil Mitchell was talking to Victoria Police Inspector Martin Boorman who oversees roadside drug testing. He was talking to him about 6 people who were wrongly convicted of taking drugs and driving and then had to wait 6 odd weeks before tests came back which proved them to be in the clear.

While it is a big yes, drug driving is an issue that needs to be dealt with and harshly, it was the arrogance that drive me mad with the inspector admitting that the 'inconvenience' is for the good of all.

What made me mad is the way he fobbed of the fact that 100% innocent people had their life absolutely put on hold until they could prove, by themselves getting blood tests, that they had done nothing wrong.

This is only 6 people but I am sure there is more ...... like speed cameras ..... but believe this is a worse situation to be in.

As stated in the report that 93% are proven positive. That is nearly 1 in 10 who have to go through crap to prove their innocence ..... not for the police or courts to prove their guilt.

The arrogance of the system for the supposed greater good (speed cameras for the greater revenue) is becoming too common and accepted. I might be wrong in this case but if it was me or you caught up with a wrongful test and have to endure the heatache of proving your innocense might think the same. Collateral damage?

Story and interview here .....

http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/neil-mit...629-216b9.html

"We look at the gains we've made since we've had this system in place in terms of lives lost and injuries prevented, a little bit of inconvenience is a price I think the community would tolerate to save lives," he said.

Funny you mention that, my cousin got hassled a few days ago by police accusing him of driving on drugs, they didn't use the swab but they kept shining a torch in his eyes, then getting him out of the car to walk around a cone, and if he didn't walk around the cone properly it meant he was on something.

He drives an immaculate standard looking 90s Mazda MX5 and is on a full license, so no asking for attention.

[nstg8a]

unfortunately i believe the political system is so removed from true democracy these days it would almost take a downunder version of the arab spring to get meaningful political change.

imo it doesnt matter who you vote for they all follow the same old ways of getting what they want to keep them in power for that one more term.

[2011G6E]

I've had the discussions a few times at work about the way radar and laser apparently don't need special or controlled conditions to measure accurately, and some people say "But other measuring devices can just be slapped up and used, like a thermometer".

OK...I have a background in science...and if you want a really accurate temperature reading, there are a few things I would want to know and take into account.
(Deep breath)...is it in the sun, is it in the shade, is it somewhere damp, is it somewhere very dry, is it somewhere in an area of indirect sunlight, is it in the wind, is it in a protected area, are there any reflective surfaces nearby shining on it, is it an old thermometer or a new one, is it mercury or alcohol, has it been dropped recently, how long since it's been calibrated or checked, who did the calibration or checking and are they approved...and so on.

Given that some states penalise you for one kph over the limit, I would want a pretty damn controlled set of conditions to be taking the measurement in...

[Bossxr8]

Does anyone know if radars work in the rain.

Just read about someone caught speeding in a downpour with visibility said to be down to 30 or 40 metres and wondering how a radar could work in those sorts of conditions. Or if they are allowed to be.

[b0son]

Much the same happened in Vic with one of their motorway cameras. Found innacurate, the state government insisted all fines issued would stand unless contested. IOW, each individual would have to go to court and make their case. Wont be at all surprised if the same happens here.

Vic plunge to new depths of despicable conduct, the other governments take a leaf out of their book....

[EDManual]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Does anyone know if radars work in the rain.

Just read about someone caught speeding in a downpour with visibility said to be down to 30 or 40 metres and wondering how a radar could work in those sorts of conditions. Or if they are allowed to be.

They ABSOLUTLEY CANNOT be used in the rain! Thats what I went to court about at one point. All radar (including car mounted) handbooks from all states listed that they cannot be used in inclement weather at least until about 2009/10 when I went to court! I got that out of the cops in court in vic, had BOM expert reports (paid for) that said it was raining heavily at 2 spots within 10km in different directions , but the stupid judge said that I couldnt say that at the exact spot where the cop was i could say it was raining! (protecting revenue). The cop said it was dry. (he didnt remember it was raining...) i went to court to catch them out with my evidence which was a good try. Even had the police prosecuter recommend I try again at county court!!

Judges are the govt, they do what they can to protect revenue streams. Ever since that case I have hated courts/police/judges/govts etc!! haha

[flappist]

Originally Posted by EDManual

They ABSOLUTLEY CANNOT be used in the rain! Thats what I went to court about at one point. All radar (including car mounted) handbooks from all states listed that they cannot be used in inclement weather at least until about 2009/10 when I went to court! I got that out of the cops in court in vic, had BOM expert reports (paid for) that said it was raining heavily at 2 spots within 10km in different directions , but the stupid judge said that I couldnt say that at the exact spot where the cop was i could say it was raining! (protecting revenue). The cop said it was dry. (he didnt remember it was raining...) i went to court to catch them out with my evidence which was a good try. Even had the police prosecuter recommend I try again at county court!!

Judges are the govt, they do what they can to protect revenue streams. Ever since that case I have hated courts/police/judges/govts etc!! haha

If this ever happens to you again just keep repeating that it is raining over and ask the copper why he is out in the rain.
They record everything and if they refuse to hand over the tape to the magistrate they will be in a world of pain.

[nstg8a]

Another reason in car cameras are becoming so prevalent.