Ford to continue designing and building in Australia

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

FORUMS:
"Wish FoA would come out publicly and state that they are committed to AU in manufacturing"

PRES OF FoA
"Australia being 1 of only 13 countries who are in the wonderful position to be able to design AND manufacturer their own cars ....... we are committed to continue to support FoA in the design AND manufacturer in Australia".

FORUMS:
"OK .... but wish FoA would come out publicly and state that they are committed to AU in manufacturing"

The question is will someone from Ford make a commitment to Australian manufacturing post 2016? The answer as its presently stands, is no because they consistently DO NOT make such a commitment. Nothing said yesterday has contradicted or changed that.

If that is being negative, then I think you have completely misunderstood the question and the concern for Australian manufacturing of Ford motor vehicles some hold, including no doubt many who are employed by Ford or their suppliers.

Despite your enthusiasm for the brand, the person to answer this question is the President of Ford Australia and right now he isn't showing the slightest interest in clarifying post 2016 plans for Ford Australia, despite extensive interest in the media and indeed on these forums.

Some might think that tells a story by its absence. Lets hope it doesn't.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by csv8

I am not being negative..but Graziano needs to be specific..build what ?????
Airy fairy comments are no good. He NEEDS to come out an say "the Falcon is here to stay" you can read anything into his statement....

How about Alan Mulally himself.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/09/18/m...any-time-soon/

In this very recent interview, he talks about Henry Ford's original purpose that inspired One Ford... and how he believed it to be important to operate where you sell cars. To my knowledge, Ford just recently stepped up it's operation in this country.

[JPFS1]

For those that want or expect Ford to come out publicly and announce what their commitment is after the FG platform, i've got some points for you:

1. There is a massive amount of preliminary work and investigation between manufacturers, Governments, Federal and State, environmental authorities, supply networks and now Ford Regions around the GLOBE + many more, before any sort of decision and business plan can be formulated and submitted.

2. The automotive market in Australia is now one of the most, if not the most competitive markets to manufacture and sell into, so Government co-investment and forward policy direction will make up a very significant part of their decisions going forward.

3. Ford would be dealing with Governments (and other parties) on point 2 right now, a clear direction and commitment from those agencies may yet be negotiated.

4. Why do you expect Ford to come out and say what they've NEVER said before this far out? This is not how the industry operates, what makes you so important that you feel they have to give YOU the privilege of this information, which is of a highly confidential and competitive nature?

5. Refer to all points above and get over yourselves!

That's all from me on this!

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

For those that want or expect Ford to come out publicly and announce what their commitment is after the FG platform, i've got some points for you:

1. There is a massive amount of preliminary work and investigation between manufacturers, Governments, Federal and State, environmental authorities, supply networks and now Ford Regions around the GLOBE + many more, before any sort of decision and business plan can be formulated and submitted.

2. The automotive market in Australia is now one of the most, if not the most competitive markets to manufacture and sell into, so Government co-investment and forward policy direction will make up a very significant part of their decisions going forward.

3. Ford would be dealing with Governments (and other parties) on point 2 right now, a clear direction and commitment from those agencies may yet be negotiated.

4. Why do you expect Ford to come out and say what they've NEVER said before this far out? This is not how the industry operates, what makes you so important that you feel they have to give YOU the privilege of this information, which is of a highly confidential and competitive nature?

5. Refer to all points above and get over yourselves!

That's all from me on this!

You and Auslandau Extremely well put!

Just because the pathetically self interested and plain crap motoring writers and commentators (I find it hard to call them journalists) decide that Ford should HAVE to say something publicly about future vehicle plans. Why effectively tell their competitors 5 years (and can plan for that) in advance? Just because the question is being asked doesn't mean they should be answered in the absolute detail being asked.

This 'you must tell us everything about the future right now' attitude has now permeated into the masses, particularly on this forum.

Ford have continued to invest in facilities in both Engineering and Production sides of the business. Ford have confirmed production until past 2016. The Ford Oz President talked about continuing to build cars in Australia.

Whilst cars are made by Ford in Australia I will buy them. Falcon / Ute or Territory.

[flooded one]

why is everyone so negative about ford???

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by wildrider

why is everyone so negative about ford???

Because a lot of people wrongly perceive Ford's right sizing of production and controlling costs as a sign that they will pull out.
Nothing could be further from the truth, if Ford wanted to pull out because Falcon/Territory is not profitable they would have years ago.

Large cars is a smaller market these days but combined with a large SUV, manufacturing is still viable in Australia,
the money to stay and invest in 2-4 years production is peanuts on pounds compared to the revenue generated.

[dimka100]

But does that really surprise you?

No EcoBoost XR6 model,
No Euro 5 certification for fleets,
Price of smaller engine = price of bigger engine,
Fuel economy is while better than I6 is still not that much significantly better.

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

But thats the thing, sales are not improving, and doing nothing to promote means it will continue to do nothing.

Broadmeadows actually built 1 on a day last week. 1 single Ecoboost for a whole day. And the rest of the days of that week the most they built was 4. Its gone nowhere.

How long can Ford think that magically, word of mouth is going to start selling them. Ecoboost awareness is near zero and 6 months after release it hasn't changed.

[Polyal]

Bobs background is marketing isnt it, so it would go without saying that he would use Bathurst to sprout the fortunes of the company on the premier day of Motorsport in the country that Ford is competing in.

While he said something, he still said nothing, and that is good marketing.

I also have no doubt that FoA will continue to R&D in the country for a while yet.

[JPFS1]

Originally Posted by dimka100

No Euro 5 certification for fleets...

aaaaah... so now they need to certify an engine to a future level which is not even legislated at the moment?

The problem is NOT the engine, that meets all current legislated EPA requirements, the problem is the GVG scoring system, and they've acknowledged there's an issue and are working with manufacturers to make changes.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

aaaaah... so now they need to certify an engine to a future level which is not even legislated at the moment?

The problem is NOT the engine, that meets all current legislated EPA requirements, the problem is the GVG scoring system, and they've acknowledged there's an issue and are working with manufacturers to make changes.

enough with the facts, you're spoiling the story!!

[The Yeti]

This thread keeps

[stang65]

How about all these people that have it in for Ford please leave the forum and maybe we might be able to keep this thread positive.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by stang65

How about all these people that have it in for Ford please leave the forum and maybe we might be able to keep this thread positive.

I think you taking the negative comments the wrong way. I havent read anywhere where somebody wants Ford to stop producing cars in Australia.

[svo supporter]

When the 380 was released, the CEO (I think) said, if X amount of cars weren't sold per month, the company would pull out of Australia....The targets weren't met, so they're gone....I also think, my Mitsubish releasing that sort of statement wouldn't have helped their cause, as the general public would have been nervious.

So if Ford used the same sort of speech, the company wouldn't exist in this country...That simple....So of course the CEO of Ford (I think that's his title)is making sure, all these bullcrap rumours surfacing are put where they belong...In the rubbish bin and giving the general population of this country the reassurance they deserve...

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

When the 380 was released, the CEO (I think) said, if X amount of cars weren't sold per month, the company would pull out of Australia....The targets weren't met, so they're gone....I also think, my Mitsubish releasing that sort of statement wouldn't have helped their cause, as the general public would have been nervious.

You've also got to pat the back of the media with this one as they continued to run negative press against Mitzu and the 380.

Hey, the media cogs are continuing, but this time Ford is in their sites.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

When the 380 was released, the CEO (I think) said, if X amount of cars weren't sold per month, the company would pull out of Australia....The targets weren't met, so they're gone....I also think, my Mitsubish releasing that sort of statement wouldn't have helped their cause, as the general public would have been nervious.

So if Ford used the same sort of speech, the company wouldn't exist in this country...That simple....So of course the CEO of Ford (I think that's his title)is making sure, all these bullcrap rumours surfacing are put where they belong...In the rubbish bin and giving the general population of this country the reassurance they deserve...

380 was dead before it was even on sale. Mitsubishi based their business case on local sales AND export of the long wheel base 380L to Canada as the Diamante. But the Canadians pulled the plug on the Diamante before the 380 was even finished, effectively killing it overnight. Mitsubishi then knew they were screwed as local sales wouldn't be enough to stay viable.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Not if the money has already been spent, $103 million to secure Falcon for two more years after 2014
and Ford has to only put in $50 million of that. Now at 1,000 sales a month at an average retail of $40K,
that's $40 millon a month in revenue before even considering Territory with an update too..

Field reliability testing usually starts about 12 months before release, so by that timeline,
the development program for the '14 Falcon and Territory is most likely half finished..

Consider this, in 2008 FG Falcon arrived and then two years and $20 million later Falcon gets Euro 4 update,
I can see the same thing happening to the 2014 car, more so because Euro 5 post 2016 is not as big a jump as Euro 4 was.
If Euro 5 cost for Falcon was only about $10 million, I could see the government picking up the lot to keep jobs here after 2016..

Your posts are always inspiring to me John. Cheers ol' son for being a voice of reason on the forums.

[mrghia]

Originally Posted by dimka100

But does that really surprise you?

No EcoBoost XR6 model,
No Euro 5 certification for fleets,
Price of smaller engine = price of bigger engine,
Fuel economy is while better than I6 is still not that much significantly better.

the EcoLPI gas range is will pass euro 5 certification but its not law yet

[dimka100]

Ford has already publicly indicated the 2014 upgrade will not include I6 Euro 5 certification ... this will apparently be done at a later stage with additional funding that will be required (meaning it's not in a budget yet).

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Consider this, in 2008 FG Falcon arrived and then two years and $20 million later Falcon gets Euro 4 update,
I can see the same thing happening to the 2014 car, more so because Euro 5 post 2016 is not as big a jump as Euro 4 was.
If Euro 5 cost for Falcon was only about $10 million, I could see the government picking up the lot to keep jobs here after 2016.

[mcnamg]

Originally Posted by dimka100

Ford has already publicly indicated the 2014 upgrade will not include I6 Euro 5 certification ... this will apparently be done at a later stage with additional funding that will be required (meaning it's not in a budget yet).

Or that Ford would prefer to not spend the money to Certify the car until it absolutely has to. It would suck for them to spend the money in 2014 and then to have the Government delay the introduction of Euro 5 for another couple of years. Better to wait and do the change to coincide with the start date of Euro 5

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by dimka100

Ford has already publicly indicated the 2014 upgrade will not include I6 Euro 5 certification ... this will apparently be done at a later stage with additional funding that will be required (meaning it's not in a budget yet).

Maybe because they still haven't decided if it's more cost effective to continue building the I6 and bring it to Euro 5, or import the V6 from America.

[mike_nofx]

I wonder if the TAB will take the bet "Will there be a 2017 Falcon: yes/no"
What would the odds be?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Maybe because they still haven't decided if it's more cost effective to continue building the I6 and bring it to Euro 5, or import the V6 from America.

If Falcon got 3.5L TT wouldn't that be a step forward?

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

If Falcon got 3.5L TT wouldn't that be a step forward?

I don't know? If I6 got DI and TT wouldn't that be a step forward?

Hell, DLM makes hydraulic valve lifting heads for the I6. I would think no cams or timing chain would be a step forward.

Either way, the 3.7 V6, and 3.5TT are fantastic engines. And would be worthy of sitting in the Falcon. However, to me an I6 is more desirable.

Those V6's could be easier to reach emissions, and would shave of more front overhang. I would just like the Falcon to continue to be a RWD saloon, and built in Australia.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by dimka100

Ford has already publicly indicated the 2014 upgrade will not include I6 Euro 5 certification ... this will apparently be done at a later stage with additional funding that will be required (meaning it's not in a budget yet).

Even with significant changes to front and rear appearance, the 2014 Falcon will be
considered an evolution and therefore not required to meet Euro 5 until; the end of 2016.

Informed sources suggest that the jump from Euro 3 to Euro 4 was much bigger than the jump.
from Euro 4 to Euro 5 and will most likely be much less than the former's $21 million cost.

Considering that the government picked up $13 million of the above figure, there's a very good chance
that a 2016 upgrade for emissions only will cost Ford "loose change" for another two years of production...
That's bang for bucks and could justify keeping Falcon as Ford may see it as being less costly than changing..

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

I don't know? If I6 got DI and TT wouldn't that be a step forward?

Hell, DLM makes hydraulic valve lifting heads for the I6. I would think no cams or timing chain would be a step forward.

Either way, the 3.7 V6, and 3.5TT are fantastic engines. And would be worthy of sitting in the Falcon. However, to me an I6 is more desirable.

Those V6's could be easier to reach emissions, and would shave of more front overhang. I would just like the Falcon to continue to be a RWD saloon, and built in Australia.

Rumor that Ford is working on a new 3 to 4 litre V6 architecture with reverse pattern cylinder heads
that puts exhausts and turbos at the top of the engine and inlets on the lower side of the heads.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

I don't know? If I6 got DI and TT wouldn't that be a step forward?

Hell, DLM makes hydraulic valve lifting heads for the I6. I would think no cams or timing chain would be a step forward.

Either way, the 3.7 V6, and 3.5TT are fantastic engines. And would be worthy of sitting in the Falcon. However, to me an I6 is more desirable.

Those V6's could be easier to reach emissions, and would shave of more front overhang. I would just like the Falcon to continue to be a RWD saloon, and built in Australia.

Why bother spending money reworking that dinosaur engine, no matter how good it is, it would only be unique to Australian/NZ markets so not worth spending development money on, easier and more cost effective just to source and use the best thing Ford already has at the moment.

Plus a V6 is a shorter engine.

Design the Falcon here in Australia, build it in Thailand and start it off at 29,990 ;)

Or just kill it off as they CBF with it anymore it seems, might be better off dead.

The bean counters always win, even if it isn't the best outcome.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Rumor that Ford is working on a new 3 to 4 litre V6 architecture with reverse pattern cylinder heads
that puts exhausts and turbos at the top of the engine and inlets on the lower side of the heads.

Like BMW's V8TT M engines and Audi/Bentley's new V8TT. Makes for a very small path to the turbos to reduce turbo lag to near zero and to heat the cats quicker.

The Porsche 918 also uses reverse pattern heads but its NA, for packaging reasons, so they can feed the exhaust gases out through the top of the engine as there was no room for the exhaust when they tried to use a traditional style head.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Hell, DLM makes hydraulic valve lifting heads for the I6. I would think no cams or timing chain would be a step forward.

Say again?

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

380 was dead before it was even on sale.

to this day i still don't like the styling of the 380. it looks like two different design teams did the front and rear separately (or more likely, they slapped then current design corporate face from the evo onto the square bodied magna) and the two ends just don't meld.