Holden SSV Redline drive impressions.

[Rodge]

So....after the last Redline v thread which was closed after people seemed unable to debate the merits of the Ford and
Holden camp in a mature and objective way It won't surprise me if this goes the same way... BUT for the sake of
completeness seeing as I started the other thread believing the dealer had a Redline for me to evaluate, (which was
sold from underneath my nose so I didn't get a chance), he e.mailed me last week and said they had a new demo
Redline in stock so I was in driving past today and thought why not ?

Sorry no photo's but we all know what they look like. Demo was red with the bigger optional rear spoiler which I
think is a must and certainly improves the rear end look. In the order in which impressions struck me...

Head up display is very cool, full colour, displays a number of different options, I selected rev counter and speed
limit information which then displays your speed in digital format next to the speed limit, (surely this must save a
few speeding tickets ?

Seats are good without being over supportive, probably a nice compromise between regular Falcon seats and GT-P
seats. Seating position is significantly lower than Falcon. Too much chrome in the interior but somewhat balances
out with nice level's of suede on the door tops and what appeared to be a genuine leather dashboard cover but is
probably artificial leather...didn't look too bad.

Sunroof is either tilt or slide right open, (I think its nice to have a sunroof).

Auto is smooth and shift shock is well suppressed at low and moderate throttle openings, somewhat less refined on
higher demand situations.

Bose stereo is good - very good, you need to fiddle around with the configuration to suit but its definitely a cut above
what Ford currently have on offer, while still being short of decent Harmon Kardon or Bowers and Wilkens systems
in high end Euro's, (which is to be expected).

Chassis seems nice and tight and body control is also tight with little to no body roll on spirited driving in the
corners. Steering feel is reasonable but I prefer the Falcon's hydraulic steering.

Sound of the V8 ? What sound ?

Performance - This is well short of what I'm used too and well short of F6 power or XR6T power too. Further
exacerbating the difference is the way the performance is delivered, which is typical of naturally aspirated Holden
V8 engines, really not a lot on offer below 4,000 revs, (polar opposite to turbo Falcon cars).

Overall I thought it was a good bit of kit, short of power, long on technology and handling, with good, (not brilliant),
brakes. Looks are subjective, I don't mind it with the optional spoiler and looked pretty good in Holden's fire engine
red colour.

Rating 8.5 / 10

[WPR1]

Originally Posted by Rodge

So....after the last Redline v thread which was closed after people seemed unable to debate the merits of the Ford and
Holden camp in a mature and objective way It won't surprise me if this goes the same way... BUT for the sake of
completeness seeing as I started the other thread believing the dealer had a Redline for me to evaluate, (which was
sold from underneath my nose so I didn't get a chance), he e.mailed me last week and said they had a new demo
Redline in stock so I was in driving past today and thought why not ?

Sorry no photo's but we all know what they look like. Demo was red with the bigger optional rear spoiler which I
think is a must and certainly improves the rear end look. In the order in which impressions struck me...

Head up display is very cool, full colour, displays a number of different options, I selected rev counter and speed
limit information which then displays your speed in digital format next to the speed limit, (surely this must save a
few speeding tickets ?

Seats are good without being over supportive, probably a nice compromise between regular Falcon seats and GT-P
seats. Seating position is significantly lower than Falcon. Too much chrome in the interior but somewhat balances
out with nice level's of suede on the door tops and what appeared to be a genuine leather dashboard cover but is
probably artificial leather...didn't look too bad.

Sunroof is either tilt or slide right open, (I think its nice to have a sunroof).

Auto is smooth and shift shock is well suppressed at low and moderate throttle openings, somewhat less refined on
higher demand situations.

Bose stereo is good - very good, you need to fiddle around with the configuration to suit but its definitely a cut above
what Ford currently have on offer, while still being short of decent Harmon Kardon or Bowers and Wilkens systems
in high end Euro's, (which is to be expected).

Chassis seems nice and tight and body control is also tight with little to no body roll on spirited driving in the
corners. Steering feel is reasonable but I prefer the Falcon's hydraulic steering.

Sound of the V8 ? What sound ?

Performance - This is well short of what I'm used too and well short of F6 power or XR6T power too. Further
exacerbating the difference is the way the performance is delivered, which is typical of naturally aspirated Holden
V8 engines, really not a lot on offer below 4,000 revs, (polar opposite to turbo Falcon cars).

Overall I thought it was a good bit of kit, short of power, long on technology and handling, with good, (not brilliant),
brakes. Looks are subjective, I don't mind it with the optional spoiler and looked pretty good in Holden's fire engine
red colour.

Rating 8.5 / 10

Interesting review especially around the sound and performance of the engine.

But it sounds like they have done a pretty good job with this one, hopefully the next Falcon can match a bit if it's tech and upgraded finish plus blow it out of the water with one of the best turbo engines around.

[Trump]

I found that the manual SS-V is punchier off the mark and feels quicker across the board than the manual.

[Rob 351]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

I found that the manual SS-V is punchier off the mark and feels quicker across the board than the manual.

^^^^ you might want to edit that! Manual feels quicker than the manual.

[4vdean]

Im guessing your not going to buy one Rodge, didnt seem to have the wow factor

[Rodge]

^^ Yeap, it needs more horsepower. Whether a Walkingshaw 310 tune package would be enough, I dunno.
No hurry, I'll wait and see what FH brings to the table and go from there.

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by Rodge

^^ Yeap, it needs more horsepower. Whether a Walkingshaw 310 tune package would be enough, I dunno.
No hurry, I'll wait and see what FH brings to the table and go from there.

Forget the W310 package and go straight for the walkinshaw 457kw/780nm package

[Trump]

Originally Posted by Rob 351

^^^^ you might want to edit that! Manual feels quicker than the manual.

Crap, I didn't even notice that!!!
Too late to edit.

I has teh dumb today

[jimt3te50]

Originally Posted by Rodge

^^ Yeap, it needs more horsepower. Whether a Walkingshaw 310 tune package would be enough, I dunno.
No hurry, I'll wait and see what FH brings to the table and go from there.

Nice review, Judas

(Disclaimer: that's a joke Rodge)

Opinion reading in is that it seemed a bit sterile Rodge? Just not a soul-stirrer?

A mate bought a 340kw Clubsport R8 this week and we took it for a drive. Have to say I thought it looked beefier in person and it is definitely well equipped. Euro look, but not euro feel. A budget veneer implying quality, but a bloody good shot at it for the money.

The car had everything. The R8 sounded sweet, presuambly a HSV distinction from the lesser models.

As we were driving he said "look at this- you'll love this!" and proceeded to touch his way through various menus to show me all the telemetry-style real time data and even a mode that pulled up all the race tracks like Barbagallo and timed your laps based on GPS around those circuits.

"yeah, impressive mate" I said "give it some stick!" Very underwhelming, even at 340. The car impressed me in terms that I think it's a very cohesive all round unit- as I said before, on it's OWN merits. As a driving experience though, it was very disappointing.

Nice car though, and your verdict of 8.5 probably isn't far off. I'd give the GT an 8.5 too as an average of it's total qualities.

The difference is where it counts and how those averages add up (roughly of course) -

The FG (Wolfie) would get a 10 for performance and a 6 for tech etc
The VF would get a 7 for performance and a 10 for tech etc

Good objective review based on what you're looking for in a car mate.

But you'd still be crazy offloading a GT-P for a Commodore.

[Rodge]

Hi Jim,

I forgot to collect my 30 pieces of silver on the way out

It certainly handled well and is a nice and tight unit in terms of steering feel, body control and suspension rebound, (no bounce).

I think the 340 Senator with its adjustable suspension would be a better fit but again the issue of relative lack of low down torque, (still talking naturally aspirated compared to forced induction which is what I'm used too), comes to the fore especially when you live in a really hilly area like I do.

I dunno what these Redline's are making in terms of torque in the everyday rev range, but its not a heck of a lot. The way they "perform" is so remarkably different to a turbo falcon. Performance in the 2,000 - 4,000 rev range is absolute chalk and cheese.

They had a white GTS there..., its probably a good thing that HSV N.Z. have their hand on it with Kiwi pricing at $125,000 drive away. When I tried to explain that at 94 cents exchange rate the kiwi price appeared to be grossly excessive compared to Aussie prices the salesman tried to tell me our GTS's have different specifications which is what explains the untoward price difference compared to Aussie prices I liked the guy but clearly he has no idea about some things.

I'm glad I test drove it to get it out of my system so too speak. It is a LOT of car for the money and I can see why they are selling so well but anyone used to F6's and SC GT performance will probably be quite underwhelmed by the power like I was.

Bring on the FH I reckon

[jimt3te50]

Admittedly, the torque issue is in delivery and duration with the n/a engine- it can't be expected to produce the same feel as a forced induction engine BUT...

N/A engines are supposed to, and typically do, feel "fun" to drive. Especially a big cube (we're talking a big bloody engine after all) high revving engine coming on cam. I do miss that feeling (like in my T3) and that's what the Holden offering should have in terms of feel, but it doesn't at all (to me).

No question you could sit there all day and play with gadgets, feel the suede-effect trim on the dash and admire all the shiny bits like a kleptomaniac magpie, but if it's "meh" to drive, what's the point?

It's all there, I agree- it ticks all the boxes. When you see FH I think you'll be even more confused, because it's going to have none (or A LOT less) of those gadgets, the same power and none of the exclusivity of your GT-P.

Sucks to be you!

[fordomatic]

Good to hear mate.

You probably don't remember my review on your other thread but i said exactly the same thing. It's funny though, i've found the young owners of these things think they are lightning bolts. Had a few line me up at the light, i just laugh at them as they take off and then think they "win".

[GTP534]

Thanks Rodge,

Based on your other posts that was a pretty objective review. My impression is that it didn't 'wow' you at all and was a bit sterile compared to your GTP.

Hold on to Wolfie; see what Ford will bring to the table with the Limited Edition GT's and FH XR8!

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by jimt3te50

Admittedly, the torque issue is in delivery and duration with the n/a engine- it can't be expected to produce the same feel as a forced induction engine BUT...

N/A engines are supposed to, and typically do, feel "fun" to drive. Especially a big cube (we're talking a big bloody engine after all) high revving engine coming on cam. I do miss that feeling (like in my T3) and that's what the Holden offering should have in terms of feel, but it doesn't at all (to me).

No question you could sit there all day and play with gadgets, feel the suede-effect trim on the dash and admire all the shiny bits like a kleptomaniac magpie, but if it's "meh" to drive, what's the point?

It's all there, I agree- it ticks all the boxes. When you see FH I think you'll be even more confused, because it's going to have none (or A LOT less) of those gadgets, the same power and none of the exclusivity of your GT-P.

Sucks to be you!

I agree Jim, if it doesn't feel exciting or at the very least really satisfying to drive all the tech gadgets in the world won't fill the void. Totally with you on that. Love your analogy with the kleptomaniac magpie, there's certainly plenty of chrome in the VF too keep any magpie happy
If I go VF in due course after reviewing the FH it'll have to be a heavily modified Redline or modestly modded Senator or stock GTS to give the horsepower I want.

Originally Posted by GTP534

Thanks Rodge,

Based on your other posts that was a pretty objective review. My impression is that it didn't 'wow' you at all and was a bit sterile compared to your GTP.

Hold on to Wolfie; see what Ford will bring to the table with the Limited Edition GT's and FH XR8!

Hi Jim,

Thanks mate. The car only went on the line as a demo on Monday this week so the engine was pretty green and tight but all the same, yeah, performance was quite underwhelming to say the least and the lack of any V8 growl was really disappointing. Sterile, probably not, I think it could easily be made to sound better and go better with a full header back exhuast system and tune provided by the Walkingshaw 310 package but its still not going to be a match for the performance of what we currently have. Most people would be happy with stock Redline power, (which probably explains why they're selling so well), but when you own a high end FPV we're not most people are we

Yeah holding out for FH is the plan and there's also the Mustang to consider holding out for next year.

[Polyal]

The FH even without tech will make the FG look old and still kick Holdens backside in performance...actually a clapped out BA XR6T could probably do that.

The VF SS is a much better looking car in the metal, alot less Daewoo thank the pics look.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Hi Jim,

Thanks mate. The car only went on the line as a demo on Monday this week so the engine was pretty green and tight but all the same, yeah, performance was quite underwhelming to say the least and the lack of any V8 growl was really disappointing. Sterile, probably not, I think it could easily be made to sound better and go better with a full header back exhuast system and tune provided by the Walkingshaw 310 package but its still not going to be a match for the performance of what we currently have. Most people would be happy with stock Redline power, (which probably explains why they're selling so well), but when you own a high end FPV we're not most people are we

Yeah holding out for FH is the plan and there's also the Mustang to consider holding out for next year.

That's surprising. I've got the SS-V & yes it doesn't have the HSV V8 rumble at idle or on light take off, but give it a little stick or hammer it and it sounds sweet - V8 sweet.

On low end torque - its the final drive ratio that's the problem. 2.92:1 (from memory) for the auto & 3.45:1 (again from memory) for the manual.

I inquired about getting the 3.45 diff in the auto SS-V; not a factory option but one dealer was willing to do it - "The cost is $2323 inc GST for the part and the labour is $484 inc GST" That would make her get up & boogie

Another difference between manual & auto - 270kW@5600rpm / 530Nm@4400rpm (auto 260kW/517Nm).

If I had the spare cash, I'd buy a red manual SS-V Redline with options & keep it for the grand-kids.

[2242100]

If you can get enough launch grip with the lower ratio you could likely expect a better 1/4 mile time but don't forget that it will be faster in some speed ranges and slower in others. The car has to change up earlier from each gear and it's still got the same engine power. Changing the Diff ratio might not quite give the hoped for result, considering the $2323 price.

I lowered the diff ratio in my last car (a VT gen 3 commodore) by about 12% (around 2/3 of the 2.92/3.45 difference that you mention) and it took a couple of tenths off the 0 -100 kmh time which was worthwhile, but it was only worthwhile because it didn't cost me too much, it didn't set the world on fire.
Would the money be better put towards upgrading the engine? Also if it was Supercharged later on the 3.45 diff may a bit too low for general street use with lots of tyre smoke in first gear.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Hi Jim,

I forgot to collect my 30 pieces of silver on the way out

It certainly handled well and is a nice and tight unit in terms of steering feel, body control and suspension rebound, (no bounce).

I think the 340 Senator with its adjustable suspension would be a better fit but again the issue of relative lack of low down torque, (still talking naturally aspirated compared to forced induction which is what I'm used too), comes to the fore especially when you live in a really hilly area like I do.

I dunno what these Redline's are making in terms of torque in the everyday rev range, but its not a heck of a lot. The way they "perform" is so remarkably different to a turbo falcon. Performance in the 2,000 - 4,000 rev range is absolute chalk and cheese.

They had a white GTS there..., its probably a good thing that HSV N.Z. have their hand on it with Kiwi pricing at $125,000 drive away. When I tried to explain that at 94 cents exchange rate the kiwi price appeared to be grossly excessive compared to Aussie prices the salesman tried to tell me our GTS's have different specifications which is what explains the untoward price difference compared to Aussie prices I liked the guy but clearly he has no idea about some things.

I'm glad I test drove it to get it out of my system so too speak. It is a LOT of car for the money and I can see why they are selling so well but anyone used to F6's and SC GT performance will probably be quite underwhelmed by the power like I was.

Bring on the FH I reckon

All that trouble and all you had to do was read my posts on how some of these new Vfs have 'performed' in the real world against my turbo falcon!! Underwhelmed vfss drivers all over the place around my place.
I totally get your attraction to all the new tech AND the engineering tho.
The problem here is the only car in their stable that has all the goodies AND matches the power were used to, Is 100k....125k for nz

If your allready used to or happy with the power the holdens have...a VF is a no brainier really.

[Jimtron]

I've never been a big Holden fan, but I have to say they have done a good job with the VF.
I definitely agree that the delivery of power isn't amazing and a bit short of our turbo 6's, but in terms of the chassis and handling, the VF has come leaps and bounds.
Oh, and the road noise.... what noise? They certainly have us on that one.

[Chopped]

Let's not forget that some cars "feel" slow but put them against a stopwatch and you find they are not as slow as you thought.

The shape of the VF has grown on me heaps. Quite a nice looking car IMO.
I reckon the FH will beat it for looks though.

[Jimtron]

Originally Posted by Chopped

Let's not forget that some cars "feel" slow but put them against a stopwatch and you find they are not as slow as you thought.

The shape of the VF has grown on me heaps. Quite a nice looking car IMO.
I reckon the FH will beat it for looks though.

Agree. They are quick, but maybe don't feel as fast as they are. I guess this is also a product of them becoming more refined.

The FH should be a ripper, just hope the interior is as good as the VF.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

All that trouble and all you had to do was read my posts on how some of these new Vfs have 'performed' in the real world against my turbo falcon!! Underwhelmed vfss drivers all over the place around my place.
I totally get your attraction to all the new tech AND the engineering tho.
The problem here is the only car in their stable that has all the goodies AND matches the power were used to, Is 100k....125k for nz

If your allready used to or happy with the power the holdens have...a VF is a no brainier really.

Wasn't any trouble mate, I enjoyed it and they're certainly a good bit of kit apart from the power and yeah its interesting that your and my opinion seems to line up with many other turbo 6 and SC V8 owners.

As you say, the VF is nothing another 100 rwkw's wouldn't fix, its really just the price of the GTS that grinds my gearstick. I'm thinking the torque of the GTS would really impress me...I love a good meaty helping of torque as much as the next man or more

$125K Kiwi ...they havn't just got their hand on it, they've got both hands on it !!

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Wasn't any trouble mate, I enjoyed it and they're certainly a good bit of kit apart from the power and yeah its interesting that your and my opinion seems to line up with many other turbo 6 and SC V8 owners.

As you say, the VF is nothing another 100 rwkw's wouldn't fix, its really just the price of the GTS that grinds my gearstick. I'm thinking the torque of the GTS would really impress me...I love a good meaty helping of torque as much as the next man or more

$125K Kiwi ...they havn't just got their hand on it, they've got both hands on it !!

125k kiwi dollars is crazy thats over 115k in oz dollars!

[Rodge]

As a few people have noted and its a point I definitly agree with, apart from the horsepower the Redline is a highly competent and very complete package....which surely begs the question, how many rwkw's can you wring out of a SSV Redline with a really good lot of mods, without supercharging it ? Anyone know or do I have to trawl through the LS1 website ?

[Rob 351]

Why don't you look at the Clubbie or Senator Rodge. Few more gee gee's & might be what you are looking for! Been a few years since I had a HSV & I swore I would never buy another & I won't after having that much trouble with it but surely they have improved on them by now!
Worth a try!

[mcnews]

Just for the mean time Rodge, why don't you just do a basic tune and shockworks gear, 4K probably keep you happy for another year and save you another 40k on depreciation for another year at least....

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by Rob 351

Why don't you look at the Clubbie or Senator Rodge. Few more gee gee's & might be what you are looking for! Been a few years since I had a HSV & I swore I would never buy another & I won't after having that much trouble with it but surely they have improved on them by now!
Worth a try!

I had a lot of trouble with my VX1 Calais too Rob, and have an elephants memory but yeah I agree with you. On paper the Senator with its fancy new Generation 3 magnetic ride control looks like an interesting possibility.
I did ask them the question, they're talking $99K driveaway, compared to $65K driveway for the Redline or I'm hearing $118K Kiwi after a haggle, driveaway for a GTS. The redline is very good value here at the discounted price they quoted me, add the 310 Walkingshaw package and I could have a good package with great handling and spec for $73K Kiwi with about 250 rwkw's and decent sound. I won't lie, that is very tempting but is 250 rwkw's enough when you used to 313 rwkw's and perhaps more imprtantly, more torque early in the rev range ?
To be honest, I am waiting for the FH and if that doesn;t give me a boner i'll probably give up on the blue oval and parallel import either a Senator or a GTS from Aussie or just nuke the itch with a demo BMW M5.

Originally Posted by mcnews

Just for the mean time Rodge, why don't you just do a basic tune and shockworks gear, 4K probably keep you happy for another year and save you another 40k on depreciation for another year at least....

Lots of logic there mate, although I'm a bit worried for you that you're starting to think like an accountant

[Rob 351]

Cheers Rodge. Out of interest does anyone know the Rwkw dyno number for a 340 HSV?? With most of the 430 kw GTS's showing about 320 on the dyno, I am presuming with HSV's 25% driveline loss, the HSV340 should be around 250-255 Rwkws!
Once again I wouldn't buy it but with it's better traction over your GTP Rodge, 255 at the treads should be enough!
I could see you in a 340 Senator mate!

[Rodge]

Yeah mate, I can't tell a fib, I'm too honest Senator has very strong appeal.
The GTS loses more power losses in terms of percentage in driveline losses with its bigger transmission and massive diff. I think someone on here was saying a while back the 340 HSV engines are getting around 260-270 rwkw's at the wheels.
I think the Senator is a very sweet package. Walkingshaw 370 tune would be the icing on the cake.
It could be me mate...I guess i'd prefer to give the FH a chance, I've been with Ford so long now and while I wait too see what the FH brings to the table there's every chance the boys at HSV New Zealand will get more realistic with their pricing as the new model premium wears off. (AKA they stop ****ing themselves) P.S. How did that last little bit make it past the swear filter ?

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Yeah mate, I can't tell a fib, I'm too honest Senator has very strong appeal.
The GTS loses more power losses in terms of percentage in driveline losses with its bigger transmission and massive diff. I think someone on here was saying a while back the 340 HSV engines are getting around 260-270 rwkw's at the wheels.
I think the Senator is a very sweet package. Walkingshaw 370 tune would be the icing on the cake.
It could be me mate...I guess i'd prefer to give the FH a chance, I've been with Ford so long now and while I wait too see what the FH brings to the table there's every chance the boys at HSV New Zealand will get more realistic with their pricing as the new model premium wears off. (AKA they stop ****ing themselves) P.S. How did that last little bit make it past the swear filter ?

Bull ****....what swear filter
Ahhh they fixed that one