Council parking fine help: word smiths NEED apply please..

[onemanempire]

Hi Guys and Girls,
A friend of mine was recently issued a ticket from the local council (Salisbury, South Australia). I parked her car there while I was working on my 2 FG II Ecoboosts in the driveway. (picture of parking offence at end of this post)
I am in the process of fighting it. I am seeking some suggestions on the wording, so I can get this waived.

All of the info below is true and correct. Here is what I have drafted so far. It needs to be dealt with before the 24th of this month.
Thanks in advance guys,

One Man.

============== begin email draft ===============

My name is Jan xxxxxx, I live at 11 xxxx Ave.

I was recently issued with an expiation notice for “Stop on a path, Dividing strip, or Nature Strip” on the 30th July 2024, Expiation notice number: P253849.

I was in hospital at the time of the offence. My date of admission to the Lyell McEwin Hospital was Friday the 5th of July 2024.
I am still in palliative care, currently residing at Lutheran Homes Group Hope Valley.

I wish to explain the circumstances of the parking offence if I may.

I was unable to drive my car at the time the notice was issued, as I was in Hospital.
I was in the process of moving the contents of my garage to my daughters house when I became ill.

My friend offered to help me finish the garage clear out and inadvertently parked my car across the road, not knowing that it was in fact a non parking zone.

There are no signs to state that you may not park on the grass. There is however, a yellow road marking line that indicates you may not park on the road itself, this is accepted as a known
road rule. To the best of my knowledge, my car was only there for a very short time, and caused no-one any interruption or inconvenience, and moreover, posed no safety concerns.

I am truly sorry that this has happened and ask to seek some leniency in this matter, due to the nature and circumstances of the offence.
I am 80 years old and a widowed pensioner, with a very limited if not meagre income. If it was not for the help of my family and friends, I would be in fulltime residential care.

Regards,
Jan.

============== end of email draft ==============

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Sorry to say, but I don't like your chances. The argument you've put forward regarding not knowing the rules is not likely to work. It's your responsibility to know the rules, not the other way around. The fact it's not sign posted is irrelevant. Similarly, the amount of time the vehicle was parked there and the level of impact to others as a result is also irrelevant.

You've got nothing to lose by trying, but based on my past experience, I don't think you will have success. The only hope you have is that you get someone sympathetic to your friends circumstances, but finding someone like that in council by law enforcement is harder than finding a reasonably priced new rwd family sized sedan to purchase!

Good luck. And all the very best to your friend.

[onemanempire]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

You've got nothing to lose by trying, but based on my past experience, I don't think you will have success. The only hope you have is that you get someone sympathetic to your friends circumstances, but finding someone like that in council by law enforcement is harder than finding a reasonably priced new rwd family sized sedan to purchase!Good luck. And all the very best to your friend.

Thanks for the quick reply Mr.

Hmm, bugga. Was kinda really hoping that was NOT going to be the case... rules etc as that you mentioned. Got to hear a point of view other than my own. I talk to myself when I need expert advice.. lets hope it pays off.

I forgot to mention that the fine is 120 gazoolas.
It's just the principal that s-h-i-t-s me. Money thieving barstards.

Hoping other team members chime in with a copy / template of their success letter(s).

Thanks fella.

One Man.

[Blue Dog]

Go & see your local council member about it, they are elected to represent the interests of their constituents.

[arm79]

Get rid of the

not knowing that it was in fact a non parking zone.

and

There are no signs to state that you may not park on the grass. There is however, a yellow road marking line that indicates you may not park on the road itself, this is accepted as a known
road rule.

Every man and his dog knows you cant park on a nature strip because its government land and fines apply... At least I thought it did. But you won't win points on trying to point out an irrelevant technicality as ignorance is no excuse of the law.

And that line I put in bold will really **** them off and make them dig in.

The best way you'll probably help get out of it is plead the compassion angle as you are and put it down to a brain fart due to the rush of doing someone a favour and the emotions tied to the event. Hope that they see issue for what it is and show compassion. You'd also want to include paperwork supporting proof as to where your friend was at the time, letters and admittance documents.

There is also the more morbid angle if I read the situation at written. If someone is in palliative care then just let the thing slide. They may nor be able to collect on the fine if you just let it drag out and the possible inevitable happens.

And I'm not trying to have a dig with the start of this post. I'm with you and probably the majority of Australia. We might not own that strip of land, but we are expected to maintain and care for it with no right to use it. And if we do we get fined for it. Its a massive bunch of BS.

[jstanovic]

Your letter sounds fine, I would definitely give it a go. Maybe say in the letter that the helping friend was from interstate and didn't know the rules.

When I lived in Adelaide I stopped at a shop on the way home (possibly Main North Road?). Can't remember the exact details but it was no parking during PM peak times and had signs saying as much BUT the signs did not denote specific times. I wrote them a letter (with supporting pics) saying I was from WA and I didn't know what times I wasn't allowed to park there. Most places in WA you are allowed to park on verges as long as you don't block driveways/paths/hydrants etc.
I got a letter saying the fine was being cancelled. 2 weeks later the signs were modified to include the specific times the PM bus lane was active.

[Itsme]

I'm going to be pessimistic; you got no hope with council wavering the fine, vehicle should not have been parked there in the first place.
Best of luck.

[Jastel]

From the pic it looks like a corner, that might be why you got fined.
On a straight bit they may not care as much.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by Jastel

From the pic it looks like a corner, that might be why you got fined.
On a straight bit they may not care as much.

They care everywhere... Because its a major cash cow for many councils.

My council has rangers patrolling the streets daily looking for this. They do it every now and then.

[Trendseeker]

I’m with you on councils and their revenue raising antics. Sometimes they are useful for fining people who block the entire footpath with their car and force pedestrians to walk onto the road or drivers that park across driveways and block the property owner’s access.

I agree with the earlier comments about your chances. The council will probably agree that the owner shouldn’t pay but they probably will say that you should pay the fine if you parked the car there.

[onemanempire]

Thanks for your valuable input. I most certainly did NOT think you were having a dig my friend, and value your feedback.

I showed her the draft that I posted here, and she pointed out something oblivious to me... She is NOT in palliative care. She is in rehabilitation. Oops, my bad.

I learnt the difference.. one means your gunna be toes up soon, and the other means your on the mend... which she is. Sorry for the misunderstanding and my lack of medical knowledge.

The supporting documents won't be a problem, hospital notes, letter from GP, physio, nursing staff if need be.

Originally Posted by arm79

Get rid of the
Every man and his dog knows you cant park on a nature strip because its government land and fines apply...

Parking on a footpath, yeah, I know this, parking where i did, not so much.
Blocking a driveway, sure, fire hydrant, yeppers. All good. But as you can kinda see in the pic, it's a huge space, yes it's on a corner, or rather a bend in the same named road. So can't really see an issue with it other than to raise some funds for the mayors end of year bottle(s) of plonk.

Originally Posted by arm79

and
And that line I put in bold will really **** them off and make them dig in.

Hmm, yes, I see your point. I guess that's why I asked for some pointers. It seemed fine and dandy to me, the wording, angle etc.. but, yeah. Trying NOT to P-I-S-S them off full stop.

Originally Posted by arm79

The best way you'll probably help get out of it is plead the compassion angle as you are and put it down to a brain fart due to the rush of doing someone a favour and the emotions tied to the event.

I like it. I will sleep on it some more. It's taken me a week just to get as far as I have, thinking about the wording. I have contested a parking fine I got in the truck many years ago, albeit, unsuccessfully, but hey, I'm up for a challenge. Keeps my mind ticking over...
Thanks again for you input. Every bit helps.

[arm79]

Hahahaha... Yeah, there be a very big difference there, polar ends of the spectrum. Lucky she picked that up.

I've been down the road of trying to nitpick the circumstances before, like those couple of sentences, and from experience it didn't go well. I felt they dug in more on the refusal because of that. Looking back I would say you cant come across all smug (for lack of a better word) trying to infer a not at fault technicality where this is none, while at the same time playing the compassion card and asking for leniency because of that. Comes across wrong, it's one or the other.

I agree with the others, you wont stand a chance if you go down that path. There is nothing legal to hang your hat on that they made a mistake.

Best is to try the compassion and financial hardship angle and hope that resonates. Which is why you'll need all the proof. Too many people will try the "yeah I was in hospital, please help", but saying so isn't proof. Having proof to validate the situation lends itself to the compassion angle that all this came about by making a silly mistake while doing a good deed.

Also some contrition will help. "I apologise for making this error, but regardless of your decision a valuable lesson has been learnt and this definitely won't happen again, etc, etc" Something like that.

Good luck.

[arm79]

I forgot to add in... And I know it won't make it any less annoying...

Originally Posted by onemanempire

But as you can kinda see in the pic, it's a huge space, yes it's on a corner, or rather a bend in the same named road. So can't really see an issue with it other than to raise some funds for the mayors end of year bottle(s) of plonk.

Its not a council rule. It's actually an Australian Road Rule that filters down and each state adopts. The state then has its own take on the rule and makes certain allowances that might modify its enforcement.

Like I've just read that in some councils in WA ONLY the resident of the adjoining properly may park on the nature strip. Or some councils only the resident or a non-resident with permission of the residen may park on it.

I've never heard of police enforcing it, only council rangers or enforcement officers. So ultimately its a federal law the councils use and abuse.

https://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/le...r210/s197.html

https://www.legislation.sa.gov.au/__...4.207.auth.pdf

[onemanempire]

Here's a photo I took today (19/08/2024) at the end of these words. Not hurting anyone parking where I did. Fricken Maggots.I am waiting for her to arrange some Hospital admission docs so I can email the leaches and await my fate, and finally put this hella annoyance to bed.I will keep you guys posted.Thanks again for all who chimed in with their thoughts. Mighty good ones to I might add.One Man.

[arm79]

For giggles you should jump on the council property mapping site and check where the boundaries of the properties end and the naturestrip starts. It would be interesting given the fence line... Thats a rather curious fence line.

Might be part easement and part naturestip. An easement would be a fine free parking spot.

[jstanovic]

FYI here is a letter I wrote to the council when I got another fine (fair few years ago). All true. Got the fine waived. Some councils do have compassion but probably depends on the person on the day. Have faith!!! 2nd December 2009Disputes OfficerCare Park Pty LtdP O Box 8237STATION ARCADESA 5000 RE: Payment Notice *********To whom it may concern,I took my family to the Fisherman's Wharf Market for a day out on Sunday 29th November 2009. I parked my vehicle adjacent to the ticket machine(as shown in attached photo) so I was fully aware I needed to buy a ticket. I returned to my vehicle and noticed I had received a payment notice.I purchased 2 hours of parking for $4.00 and placed the ticket on my dashboard as I do with all the tickets I buy when I park. I can only assume that the ticket became overturned when I took the pram out the back of my car or when I took the baby out of the child seat.I have never received a parking ticket in my 13 years of driving in South Australia and Western Australia. Please use this letter as permission to check my clean parking history.I ask for you to please waive this ticket. I had purchased a ticket in good faith and was unaware it had overturned on my dashboard.If you need any more information, please do not hesitate to contact me. Any help would be much appreciated.Yours sincerely,

[onemanempire]

Originally Posted by arm79

For giggles you should jump on the council property mapping site and check where the boundaries of the properties end and the naturestrip starts. It would be interesting given the fence line... Thats a rather curious fence line. Might be part easement and part naturestip. An easement would be a fine free parking spot.

Mate, that is terrific advice... but all i could find was this:



Any help or suggestions would be most welcome.

Ta.

[BENT_8]

Myself and another driver got pinged x2 each in 3hrs for stopping our buses in a bus zone to unload/load OSHC kids going to see a movie on the Parade at Norwood.
Absolute Nazi inspector came running out of the chambers full of attitude.
Anyone who knows the Parade can vouch that apart from the bus zone there is nowhere suitable to stop a coach.
$612 worth for 5 minutes inconvenience and it wasnt even an inconvenience as metro buses could and did service the stop with enough access to parallel the gutter at the sign.

Good luck.

[onemanempire]

OK, so I am about to pull the pin on this saga. Here's the final edit...


=====begin sent email===========

My name is Jan XXXX, I live at XX bla bla Ave Town, 5000.I am writing to you seeking some leniency in this matter, due to the nature and circumstances of the offence.I was recently issued with an expiation notice for “Stop on a path, Dividing strip, or Nature Strip” on the 30th July 2024, Expiation notice number: P253849.I was in hospital at the time of the offence. My date of admission to the Lyell McEwin Hospital was Friday the 5th of July 2024.I am still in rehabilitative care, as of 21/08/2024, and currently residing at the Lutheran Homes Group located at Grand Junction Rd Hope Valley.I wish to explain the circumstances of the parking offence if I may. I was unable to drive my car at the time the notice was issued, as I was in Hospital. I was in the process of moving the contents of my garage to my daughters house when I became ill.My friend offered to help me finish clearing out the garage and parked my car across the road, not knowing that it was a non parking zone.He has recently moved from interstate, where the parking laws are different to ours here in South Australia.I have asked the hospital staff, the residential care home staff, and my Doctor for supporting evidence of my admission date, and ongoing care documents, and so far, I have been unable to obtain them for your consideration. Something to do with the privacy laws.Driving a car now is still not possible, as I am recovering from a bacterial infection in my feet which makes standing, walking etc. very painful.I am 80 years old and a widowed pensioner, with a very limited if not meagre income. If it was not for the help of my family and friends, I would be in full time residential care.I apologise for making this error, but regardless of your decision a valuable lesson has been learnt by both of us, and this definitely won't happen again.I am truly grateful and very appreciative for your time in considering my application.Jan.

=======end of email======

Be interesting to see how far I DON'T get with this...
Hey, I am trying to be positive here... who knows, pigs might actually fly...

Many thanks to all that provided their valuable input for this HF situation.

Thing is, it's not about the money, I don't have a problem with paying it. It's just the principal that burns me, and judging by everyone's response(s), it also makes you lot see the red mist to.

One Man (about to be a bit poorer)

[Peter B - CV8]

Good luck & hope you get a successful outcome (but I think they'll just simply ask her to nominate the driver of the vehicle).

[prktkljokr]

I can tell you from experience they don't care if you are from another state and don't know the rules, they just say ignorance is not an excuse, you might get someone with a little compassion, but most of them are heartless revenue raising @$$holes.

[ford71V8]

Unless its due to being posted on this forum, the letter needs re-formatting.
You want someone to read that, you best make it as legible as possible.
Paragraphs, spaces, etc. Make it look inviting to read, not a chore.

[onemanempire]

Originally Posted by ford71V8

Unless its due to being posted on this forum, the letter needs re-formatting.You want someone to read that, you best make it as legible as possible.Paragraphs, spaces, etc. Make it look inviting to read, not a chore.

Hi, and thanks for your input. I couldn't agree with you more.

I have sent Ford Forums Admin RussellW a message about the formatting issues we are all having... along with the Quote function not working for me recently. The below was his reply (Thanks Russell);

Re: Posted messages not correctly formatted after editing

Solve one issue, create another.As a result of fixing the issue with Firefox inserting an extra line break at the end of a paragraph we now have the issue that once you edit a post (usually in FF) all the line breaks are stripped out.Quotes also don't work in FF when it's the last post being quoted and sometimes not at all but I've no idea why.

Yes, the finished email to the Cun sell was spick an span formatting wise.

I love english, and writing it.. Hate it when I post something that looks like I have no grasp on basic grammar.

The pics at the end of this post illustrate what happens after I spend a considerable amount and time and effort formatting my messages so they are legible, well punctuated, and if I'm really lucky, funny to!

Just thought I'd share some background on my computing skills with you guys.. Not bragging, just sayin... (misspelt on purpose)
I worked in the IT industry for a lot of years, as a P.C. tech in a computer shop for over 3 years. Then ran my own business for 5+ then worked for the Department of Education as a Network Admin for 10+ years.



Cheers,

One Man.

[onemanempire]

Well, they say no news is good news.

I sent the Cun sell the email @ 3:51 AM on 21/08/2024 . And this is what I have so far:

Email Acknowledgement:- Expiation notice number: P253849

Thank you for contacting the City of Salisbury
We acknowledge receipt of your email which will be forwarded to the relevant staff for their response.
Please be aware that emails to this address are checked during normal business hours, Monday – Friday 8:30am – 5:00pm
If your matter is urgent please contact the City of Salisbury on (08) 8406 8222
City of Salisbury34 Church Street, Salisbury SA 5108P: 08 8406 8222F: 08 8281 5466

Hey, good news. I might actually get something out of this after all. Quietly confident that I haven't heard anything yet. That's gotta be a good thing yeah. Will keep you guys in the loop. If it does pay off, it will certainly help others.

One Man.

[jstanovic]

Well worth giving it a go. I wouldn't hold my breath on a response from the council, might take a couple weeks.

We got a $77 fine yesterday. Ticket machine was saying out of order (we took a pic of the machine) but when we got back we had the fine on the window. I will be emailing them to get the fine waived, if successful it will be 3 from 3 for me!!!!!

[Itsme]

Just because you have not heard from them is good news, you initially got an automated email receive response only, when you receive another email with the outcome, then you will know for sure.

[onemanempire]

Originally Posted by jstanovic

Well worth giving it a go. I wouldn't hold my breath on a response from the council, might take a couple weeks. We got a $77 fine yesterday. [snipped..]

I will be emailing them to get the fine waived, if successful it will be 3 from 3 for me!!!!!

Excellent work Jay! Milky bars will be on YOU if you win!!! (I sure hope you do BTW).

Originally Posted by Itsme

Just because you have not heard from them is good news, you initially got an automated email receive response only, when you receive another email with the outcome, then you will know for sure.

Phew, that's a relief, I was starting to think I may need to send another email to see what the GO is, as I haven't heard squat, and the due date is looming (26/08/2024).

I checked email a minute ago when I got home, and still no reply as yet. (I don't use my phone online, email, google etc).

Was kinda hoping for a quicker response...

Fusk, WHAT was I thinking?
The Cun Sell being quick to do something, that, isn't earning them something, with the potential of a $120 in lost revenue at stake.

I always wondered if they were bashed and stood over when young, and now, later in life, they are trying to get revenge.

Pitty the poor things. Can totally understand why they wear stab proof vests...

One Man.

[onemanempire]

Maybe if there was a sign like this it wouldn't be a problem paying the fine...

[onemanempire]

Oh well... No harm in trying... Here's what found it's way to my inbox today.

Bar steds..

=============================begin email==============

Dear JanTRAFFIC EXPIATION NUMBER P253849Thank you for your letter in response to the expiation notice for Stop on a Path, Dividing Strip, or Nature Strip offence observed on 25-Jul-2024, which was issued in accordance with the Australian Road Rules. Your appeal was considered by the Community Compliance Assessment Unit, and after consideration of all the facts available to us, the Unit has declined to withdraw the expiation on this occasion.The decision was reached on the basis that your appeal does not constitute a defence under the Act. The officer’s evidence also supports the offence being committed.Accordingly, you are required to expiate the $116.00 expiation fees total by 23-Sep-2024.Should you be experiencing any financial difficulties I recommend you consider contacting the Chief Recovery Officer on 1800 659 538 or visit website www.fines.sa.gov.au for further information, as they may be able to assist you. If you have any queries about this matter you can contact our office Monday – Friday between 8.30am & 5.00pm on 8406 8222.

======================end of email=====================

Case closed.

It's very interesting that the wording seems to be (from memory) exactly the same as the email I got many years ago for a cun sell fine.

I am uming and arr ing about how I deal with this.

Option one: Go to the bank and get $116.00 in 10 cent coins to pay the fine in person... Nah, it's not the persons fault that's going to be stuck with counting it... and will take up to much of my time. And yes, they have to accept it as it's legal tender.

Option 2: Pay it off at $5.00 per fortnight.. cause I'm poor.. maybe.

Option 3: Hope their computer system crashes, along with all of their backups and the fine simply goes away. Not likely.

Option 4: Wait for other fiendish ideas from you guys to make them suffer.

Just like the majority of you guys said. Your gunna have to pay it. I hate to say it, but you were right.

Thanks for your replies. Was worth a shy at the stumps.

One Man...

Over and out.

[arm79]

The can legally refuse option 1 unfortunately... As fun as it would be to do this.

Option 3 is never going to happen. Dropping a big sloppy shit on the council counter would fulfill option 4, but would further bite you on the ***.

So Option is the only out at this juncture.