plan to ban all old cars from Paris

[aussie muscle]

i hope we don't start going down this path of discriminating against old cars.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/paris-ba...113-299cu.html

[Jim Goose]

I think in places like Japan and Singapore its much the same idea being used.

I wonder if they will ban diesels as well? Since they have been declarred so dangerous by the WHO....

The World Health Organization (WHO) has declared that diesel fumes cause lung cancer.

The International Agency for Research on Cancer announced this on June 13, 2012.

Diesel exhaust is classified as carcinogenic, putting it into the same category as asbestos.

If they want to "claim" its to reduced polution in a congested city, then they will also need to ban them as well....

[Trek]

About as stupid as it gets. Yes, let's strip down the idea of people wanting to be individuals, while we're at it!

[Road_Warrior]

Under proposals presented to the city council on Monday, Bertrand Delanoe, the Socialist mayor

Enough said.

[mik]

they won`t do it here, they value the voter to much.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

i hope we don't start going down this path of discriminating against old cars.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/paris-banishes-motorings-ancien-regime-20121113-299cu.html

Well actually if done correctly it could be a really good idea.
Before the usual suspects arc up, read what I am saying before going off.

If, in Australia, all vehicles older than 17 years could only be registered on "club rego" then the following would happen:

1) There would be far more collectable cars in the hands of collectors and not being destroyed by "doof doofs".

2) The price of both new and second hand cars would come down significantly with the increase of newer car ownership.

3) Ford and Holden would be able to produce more vehicles in response to sales.

4) Young and less well of people would be driving much newer and safer vehicles for the same money they are spending now on junk heaps.

5) A huge percentage of rolling future accidents would be removed.

6) There would be a much higher availability of parts for restorations of enthusiasts vehicles.

The only down side is that a few people will not be able to use old vehicles as daily drivers which while upsetting them and their individuality.

How it might work.

17 years ago is 1995 so any pre 1995 vehicles cannot be used as daily drivers.

You have a ED XR8 Sprint that you love and cherish. You can now put it on club rego for $200 a year and drive it on weekends all you like but not to work every day but neither can anyone else so any of this sort of car owned by fleas will become available for enthusiasts to buy.

You want to buy a new GT. Right now that is $70k because there are a lot of taxes and they are a rare vehicle. If the LCT was dropped and FPV now produced 5,000 a year built on the new falcon which in itself will have dropped significantly due to volume you may get your new GT for $45k and your new XR6 for $22k etc.
This would lead to a second hand 10 year old GT (the equivalent of a BA now) being under $10k which you could keep for 7 years and then put on club rego.
The crap commodores and old JDM imports would be gone with again only true enthusiasts owning them.

If you were a battler you could easily buy a 10 year old XR for $3-5k for daily driving and something nice that was more than 17 years old for the same sort of money with cheap rego to play with. Something you can't do now.

So, when you think about it are all these good points worth a few people not being able to drive an old bomb to work?

Oh and before one of our economic experts disputes the prices of cars, the reason why cars are much cheaper in USA than here is because they buy lots more than we do. Their wages and other costs are not dissimilar to ours.

If it costs $100,000,000 to develop a new falcon and they sell 10,000 of them then that is $10,000 per car sold.
If they build 100,000 of them then that is $1,000 per car so would be a base drop of $9k.
Yes this is oversimplifying but you get the general idea.

[Fireblade]

Originally Posted by flappist

Oh and before one of our economic experts disputes the prices of cars, the reason why cars are much cheaper in USA than here is because they buy lots more than we do. Their wages and other costs are not dissimilar to ours.

Dead right Flappy

[jmack]

to produce a new car would have to put more pressure on the enviroment than to keep an old one runnuing,and its speed cameras and fines that have bought the road toll down not safer cars (just ask govs how well the have done)so they cant use that excuse

[xisled]

But the USA has 200 million people Australia has 21 million, also if they ban old car's what about the people who cannot buy a new car or even something that is newer than 17 years old.

A lot of family’s struggle to save $1000, ban old cars, people will not be able to get to work, they will lose their job and could lose everything else they own.

It does not matter how cheap a new car is, most family's will not be able to buy a new car.

If it happened in Australia the gap between poor and rich will widen even more. It will be the rich will have a car, the poor will not.

[vanman_75]

when i was in paris i really didnt see that many cars that would be that old , culling them is grasping at straws if they think it would help actual emissions ? the 500 buses would be a better result , as they are tail to tail all over the city .maybe natural gas or electric grid like Switzerland would fix that issue as well . then after that possibly look at better metro ( already pretty good compared to our shambles ) but old cars ???

and on a side note if i had a new car for 17 years it would have well over a million ks on it ... realistically after 5 or six years they are buggered ( well high klm anyways)

[EVLKNEVL]

What would happen to all the 17+ year old cars? The non-collectible ones? ..What would happen to parts costs for club registered classics?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by xisled

But the USA has 200 million people Australia has 21 million, also if they ban old car's what about the people who cannot buy a new car or even something that is newer than 17 years old.

A lot of family’s struggle to save $1000, ban old cars, people will not be able to get to work, they will lose their job and could lose everything else they own.

It does not matter how cheap a new car is, most family's will not be able to buy a new car.

If it happened in Australia the gap between poor and rich will widen even more. It will be the rich will have a car, the poor will not.

No, you are not fully understanding it.

The battlers will still spend $500 to $1000 but they will get a 12-14 year old car not a 25 year old car.

[Yellow_Festiva]

US has 300+ mil.

I enjoyed seeing the odd old French cars in Paris... Removing them would be a joke

[SSVPom]

Originally Posted by EVLKNEVL

What would happen to all the 17+ year old cars? The non-collectible ones? ..What would happen to parts costs for club registered classics?

They would be crushed, if indeed the non collectable cars had managed to make it to 17 years old ! Due to the weather and road salt, you'd be hard pressed to find any.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by EVLKNEVL

What would happen to all the 17+ year old cars? The non-collectible ones? ..What would happen to parts costs for club registered classics?

They would be recycled or exported to less fortunate countries (such as the one 3 hours to our east )

If there is a market for the parts there will be plenty about, if not then they will be rare and expensive e.g. XY parts are not expensive and easy to get, P76 or Charger parts not so...

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by flappist

The only down side is that a few people will not be able to use old vehicles as daily drivers which while upsetting them and their individuality.
.

Thats funny... your usually the loudest one going on about restricting people on what they can and cant do... but in this case its ok?

its for their own good?

[Mr Hardware]

next time you're out on the road, look around you - perhaps to the cars going the other way whilst you're stopped at the traffic lights maybe.

The number of cars passing that are 17yo or older are approaching the 40:1 ratio compared to newer cars.

I can hardly see how removing this one car out of forty is really going to mean that XR6s are going to be $22k each new. The numbers just don't add up.

Oh how I wish it were the case, though.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Thats funny... your usually the loudest one going on about restricting people on what they can and cant do... but in this case its ok?

its for their own good?

Yes I am usually for that but right now we have a problem in that our car industry is in a fair bit of trouble and it may end up with ALL falcons being more than 17 years old and no parts at all. Can't happen? Would you like to buy a new Valiant, 380, Willys Jeep, P76, Giacattalo, Bullet etc. etc.

It is NOT for "their" own good, it is for the good of the Australian car industry and in particular Falcon and Territory.

If you not a Australian Ford enthusiast and do not think that we should be looking at any and every possible way to help our car industry, Ford in particular then why are you a member here?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

next time you're out on the road, look around you - perhaps to the cars going the other way whilst you're stopped at the traffic lights maybe.

The number of cars passing that are 17yo or older are approaching the 40:1 ratio compared to newer cars.

I can hardly see how removing this one car out of forty is really going to mean that XR6s are going to be $22k each new. The numbers just don't add up.

Oh how I wish it were the case, though.

I just looked out the window. In my complex car park over half the cars were over 10 years old, the car park next door almost ALL of the cars were more than 20 years old although next door is Vinnies .

Looking on the road is the wrong place. Most who cannot afford newer cars also cannot afford to drive them so they tend to only do short hops in local areas.

A couple of years ago there were stats released showng the average age of a registered car was 14 years. I doubt that has changed much which means for about every new one you see there is an old one.

[Mr Hardware]

Another example:
Out of the 229,047 cars currently for sale on carsales.com.au, only 7,896 (or 3.4%) are pre-1995, of which a significant number would already be in the weekend-only classics.

This rule would almost pass itself just due to the number of cars that end their useable lives before 17 years old?

[XBROO]

Originally Posted by flappist

No, you are not fully understanding it.

The battlers will still spend $500 to $1000 but they will get a 12-14 year old car not a 25 year old car.

What's to understand? You are making big assumptions, I'm not looking through rose coloured glasses. I thing xisled is more on the money, just because there's savings for car companies dosen't mean they'll be past on.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Another example:
Out of the 229,047 cars currently for sale on carsales.com.au, only 7,896 (or 8.4%) are pre-1995, of which a significant number would already be in the weekend-only classics.

This rule would almost pass itself just due to the number of cars that end their useable lives before 17 years old?

And only 1,365 are below $2500.

So would that mean that there are only 1,365 cars worth less that $2500 in the whole of Australia?
Or maybe people who are selling $500 cars really do not want to spend $100 on a car sales ad......

But this is all just misdirection. You and a few others just dislike the idea. Some because they do not understand it, some because they don't like change and others because the are just always against everything. That is your choice.

It really does not affect me personally as my drive cars are always new and get replaced every 3-4 years so if it cost $50k and sold for $30k or cost $35k and sold for $15k it is all the same.

My "toy" car is a XY Fairmont wagon and is on club rego already.

[Mr Hardware]

I only don't like it because I don't want the government meddling in people's lives any more than they already do, especially car-related.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

I only don't like it because I don't want the government meddling in people's lives any more than they already do, especially car-related.

So the government should not support Ford manufacturing in Australia?

[EFFalcon]

if the 'club permit' rules were as they currently are.. i'd probably just buy 4 'classics' and drive them on alternating days :P

its win win!

[Mr Hardware]

Come on man, that's a bit of a stretch. Yes they should but not by these methods, as i've tried to explain how they will have almost a negligible effect on whether ford sells more cars or not.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by EFFalcon

if the 'club permit' rules were as they currently are.. i'd probably just buy 4 'classics' and drive them on alternating days :P

its win win!

Well yes and no.

You would not be able to have a "club" car unless you also have a "real" car and if you have 4 "club" cars that will be the same rego costs as on "real" car.
And of course if you stuff up and drive one too many times then you will be driving in an unregistered vehicle which will mean you will be doing a lot of walking.....

[EVLKNEVL]

I don't like it because I don't want classic car owners battling for the privilege of driving their pride and joy freely, only to wind up sliding into the 'just another nuisance motoring minority' category.

[EFFalcon]

Originally Posted by flappist

Well yes and no.

You would not be able to have a "club" car unless you also have a "real" car and if you have 4 "club" cars that will be the same rego costs as on "real" car.
And of course if you stuff up and drive one too many times then you will be driving in an unregistered vehicle which will mean you will be doing a lot of walking.....

yes... but since i've already got 5 cars, 4 of which are 17 years or older, with 3 currently on full reg and one on club reg.. its a win

ofcourse, given we're talking hypotheticals.. it doesn't really matter.
but for some enthusiasts it would actually be beneficial..

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Come on man, that's a bit of a stretch. Yes they should but not by these methods, as i've tried to explain how they will have almost a negligible effect on whether ford sells more cars or not.

No you have not explained anything. All you have said is that carsales has very few old cars on it.

Carsales does, however, have LOTS of 3 or 4 year old Falcadores in the $20-30k range. Someone must be buying them.

So which would you buy?

A 3 year old XR6 Turbo for $29k or a brand new XR6 Turbo for $29k?

Or a 3 year old XR6 Turbo for $19k?

No, the prices would not drop instantly, it would take a few years much to the relief of those who have recently bought new cars but maybe 10 years from now it would be a whole new market. The car makers and dealers would be forced to follow or die in the same way the HN, JB, Goodguys, Bing Lee etc. did not go the way of WOW, Betta, Retravision Clive Peeters, Chandlers et. al.

Who would have thought 10 years ago that 60" plasmas and blurays would be common in "battlers" houses?

Originally Posted by EVLKNEVL

I don't like it because I don't want classic car owners battling for the privilege of driving their pride and joy freely, only to wind up sliding into the 'just another nuisance motoring minority' category.

You don't have a TV at your house?

We are already there........

In the big picture it is just an idea (a hypothetical one ).

Other places have already done it and if Australia decides to do it or not do it there is NOTHING any of us can do about it.