Australia's Population 'Dilemma '

[fou_bleu]

Today in Society and Culture at school we got talking about the proposed two-child policy brought about by the new 'Stop Population Growth Now' party that was formed back in April.

Here is a little article with a quick overview of the situation to get you up-to-date: http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/n...-1225859631610

My question is, what are your thoughts? Hopefully I can get a decent response so I can use the data in an assignment due in a few weeks...

[fou_bleu]

PS: Sorry this poll closes so soon, but like I said, it's for an assignment...

[AndrewR_AUII]

If you look at the issues we have now such as water supplies and the cost of housing, it makes me think that things are showing signs of being at their limit already.

We have other countries purchasing 'our' farm land, cities continue to grow into farming areas (or they do in Adelaide particularly around Virginia and Mt Barker).
We then look at the dwindling fossil fuels, and how they may be replaced. There is a trend toward biofuels such as bio-ethanol... now we need crops not only to feed ourselves but our cars as well...and the water for these crops...

Also look at the debate over the River Murray - about the balance of water allocations between the farmers and those downstream and leaving enough so that some ends up flushing out to sea...

[XWGT]

I think everyone looks at the issue of population from the wrong angle.

Australia can sustain an enormous population..........if we are prepared to spend the $ to build the infrastructure required to support it. If we are not prepared to do that then logically it means our population will be limited in some form

[Kryton]

Do we want an 'enormous' population though?
If i wanted to live in a city that has the current population of Australia, id move to the U.S.

[sandmanls1]

our road network and infrastructure is already farked look at trying to get into Melb Airport of the Tulla on a Monday morning.. Govt either has to start spending money or limit immigration.

[Iggypoppin']

Agreed. When I used to drive, it was a nightmare on south road, even with the upgrades to Anzac highway and other spots, i just don't think Adelaide can support much more traffic as a result of population growth unless something is done. Little off topic but it's relevant.

[flappist]

The problem is concentration of people.

If there were some way of ensuring that the newcomers don't just fall into the "ethnic ghettos" in the major cities and got out into the rest of Australia maybe it would be a good thing.

There is lots of land and lots of opportunity out in the bush. All it needs is some way to entice the newcomers out there.

[Mickxr8]

australia cannot support any more population growth.
the infrastructure needed now should have been started about 10-15 yrs ago.

the rest of my opinions wont pass the aff t+c`s

[XR6TCraig]

Instead of the government limiting population growth by legislating against more than a certain number of kids for its current citizens and dictating population growth that way, perhaps it should look at it's current immigration policies and amend these. I'm kind of over the government trying to save me from myself! If I can afford to have these kids and my partner and I can have kids, why does the government feel the need to butt into things which have nothing to do with them while letting in enough immigrants every year to fill the MCG several times over!

[SM1DY]

Take a look at the 'How Many People Can Live on Planet Earth?' doco. It was posted by another member not long ago and it can give you an interesting insight into the future of population growth, resource endowment and water scarcity.

Part 1 of 6 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF15YAvT9G0

[Raptor]

I voted for the 2 kids (though that could even be one too many ;) )

Also this isn't Australia's Population 'Dilemma' - it's the worlds!!!

Any thought that Australia can contain the impact here without regards to what's going on in the rest of the world is just rubbish.

[Jim Goose]

Amazing how the thread turns into a debate about immigration...... how predictable.

[fou_bleu]

Originally Posted by Raptor

I voted for the 2 kids (though that could even be one too many ;) )

Also this isn't Australia's Population 'Dilemma' - it's the worlds!!!

Any thought that Australia can contain the impact here without regards to what's going on in the rest of the world is just rubbish.

I hear you Raptor and agree 100%, but the basis of this opinion poll is Australia by itself, because although the world's population definitely needs to stop growing, at least at its current rate, many believe Australia can still take some more though...

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by flappist

The problem is concentration of people.

If there were some way of ensuring that the newcomers don't just fall into the "ethnic ghettos" in the major cities and got out into the rest of Australia maybe it would be a good thing.

There is lots of land and lots of opportunity out in the bush. All it needs is some way to entice the newcomers out there.

The extension of that is the increasing concentration of corporate head offices in Capital city CBD's...

Regional business centres need to be placed and encouraged in regional/ outer suburban areas to encourage population growth/concentration away from CBD's...
Peoples pre-occupation with needing to live near CBD's creates all kinds of issues including traffic congestion, population crowding etc....

[fou_bleu]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Amazing how the thread turns into a debate about immigration...... how predictable.

Well that's a factor towards our growth is it not? Realistically I am only taking out the numbers for a simple data comparison, but I think this is just interesting to see what peoples real opinions are...

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by flappist

The problem is concentration of people.

If there were some way of ensuring that the newcomers don't just fall into the "ethnic ghettos" in the major cities and got out into the rest of Australia maybe it would be a good thing.

There is lots of land and lots of opportunity out in the bush. All it needs is some way to entice the newcomers out there.

Get the proper infrastructure out into the other areas and people (including me) will go.

[FTE72]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Get the proper infrastructure out into the other areas and people (including me) will go.

If you build it, they will come sort of style?

[JC]

Australia is big enough physically to fit the same population as USA. I guess our habitable space is a bit less, but we should still be able to grow - we just need more than 3 major cities.

[Adamz Ghia]

It's not as simple as limiting the number of kids we have but, we've got to consider the gender mix, as when you limit us to, say 2 kids, they've gotta be popping out as close to a 50/50 mix as you can get. There's also the couples or people who chose not to have kids, can't have kids, or stay single. If we limit us to 2 kids and this happens, then instantly the next gneration or two, even three is smaller and we have to have another population boom to correct things again.

Those numbers are true- at current trends. If you limit the re population to two kids, and lets say out of that generation it's a 55 men/45female split, instantly the next generation is smaller as there's a smaller number of females to have another two kids. Or lets say just 1% of that generation chose not to have kids, and then 1% of their kids ect chose not to or can't have kids, each generation will get smaller. Then we have the homosexual community, in a society where kids are limited to two, they most likely wouldn't be able (even allowed) to adopt, so again, the pool for reproduction is smaller.

China is a gret example on a small scale. Small might even be the wrong word to use as they make up 1/6th of our population.

Also, the cats and dogs point raises another issue. For many breeds of cats and dogs, the gene pool is getting smaller and a side effect of this more and more genetic problems are surfacing in breeds that never previously had issues. Same would happen, it would just take longer with us.

Tswo of my posts from another population thread on why child limits will not work. All w ecan do is give incentives for people to have smaller families...

[fmc351]

Immigration is the only answer we have to the current aging population issues we face. Im not sure where else you find a ready supply of adults. It can bring with it its own problems, but there are additional benefits too.

The European migrants during the 40's and 50's brought with them some much needed skills. They added a diversity, Im not talking multiculturalism, simply culture. I dont know about you, but I like a good pizza, kebab, dim sim. Let alone the restaurant scene with more traditional dishes that burgeoned with that influx. The impact on Aussie cuisine has been tremendous. And thats just food.

The 70's and 80's was not different than than the anti-immigration nonsense that is proposed now. I hate to use the word, but it was 'wogs' this and 'gooks' that. Its funny though, some of those speaking about current migrants, come from those backgrounds too.

Flappist is right about the concentrations of populations. I agree if there was a willingness to mix more, there might be less issues. My Mrs is from a Maltese background (she was born here, her mum in Malta, her dads English), her family have always been more Aussie than Malt or English, but still very Malt and English if that makes sense.


Directly on point, I like living in a nation where the entire population is smaller than many major cities around the world. I find capital cities in Aus too crowded.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by FTE72

If you build it, they will come sort of style?

Nail, head, hit

[tranquilized]

I agree with the 2 child policy, I'd agree with any policy that aims to reduce population actually

Originally Posted by davway

Do we want an 'enormous' population though?
If i wanted to live in a city that has the current population of Australia, id move to the U.S.

Why the U.S.? Only two US cities (NYC & LA) have larger populations than Melbourne and Sydney.

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The extension of that is the increasing concentration of corporate head offices in Capital city CBD's...

Regional business centres need to be placed and encouraged in regional/ outer suburban areas to encourage population growth/concentration away from CBD's...
Peoples pre-occupation with needing to live near CBD's creates all kinds of issues including traffic congestion, population crowding etc....

I agree with pretty much everything you've said there - we need to spread the population out more. But at the same time our cities need denser populations in the inner areas to combat urban sprawl. Obviously the infastructure isn't there right now to support that, but conversly thats mostly to do with the sparse population densities. (compared with other cities around the world)

Melbourne is one of the largest cities in the world geographically speaking, but about 91st in terms of population.

[74_XB_Ute]

Originally Posted by fmc351

Immigration is the only answer we have to the current aging population issues we face. Im not sure where else you find a ready supply of adults. It can bring with it its own problems, but there are additional benefits too.

The European migrants during the 40's and 50's brought with them some much needed skills. They added a diversity, Im not talking multiculturalism, simply culture. I dont know about you, but I like a good pizza, kebab, dim sim. Let alone the restaurant scene with more traditional dishes that burgeoned with that influx. The impact on Aussie cuisine has been tremendous. And thats just food.

The 70's and 80's was not different than than the anti-immigration nonsense that is proposed now. I hate to use the word, but it was 'wogs' this and 'gooks' that. Its funny though, some of those speaking about current migrants, come from those backgrounds too.

Flappist is right about the concentrations of populations. I agree if there was a willingness to mix more, there might be less issues. My Mrs is from a Maltese background (she was born here, her mum in Malta, her dads English), her family have always been more Aussie than Malt or English, but still very Malt and English if that makes sense.


Directly on point, I like living in a nation where the entire population is smaller than many major cities around the world. I find capital cities in Aus too crowded.

Agree entirely. Plus migrants are prepared to do the jobs that most Aussies consider not worth getting outa bed for. Hell some Aussies dont get out of bed anyway and we pay them for it. But thats another topic

[bingoTE50]

No I do not agree with a child policy. Religion can dictate otherwise.
Immigration ,not a problem for me . My grandfather was German,my wifes mum is English ,and came out with her Welsh mum in 1952. My nephew has a Cambodian girlfriend at the moment who was actually shot over there, during civil unrest and has not had a great life until coming to Australia.
I walked through a suburb the other day and saw some African immigrants chatting and laughing ,buying at the local shops ,and I just smiled and thought how good is it for these people to have this freedom.

[WMD351]

No, I disagree with the two child policy but infrastructure and the location location/concentration of the current population is absolutely shambolic and needs sorting.

[Jim Goose]

From the ABS website :

* There were 295,700 births registered in Australia in 2009, approximately 900 (0.3%) fewer than the number registered in 2008 (296,600).
* The median age of all mothers for births registered in 2009 was 30.6 years, while the median age of fathers was 33.0 years, both slightly younger than in recent years.
* In 2009, 65% of births were to parents in a registered marriage.

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@....6?opendocument

DEATHS AND MORTALITY RATES

* There were 140,800 deaths registered in Australia in 2009, approximately 3,200 (2.2%) fewer than the number registered in 2008 (143,900).
* The standardised death rate (SDR) decreased to 5.7 deaths per 1,000 standard population in 2009, down from 6.1 in 2008.
* Over the past 20 years, SDRs have decreased for all states and territories.
* The highest SDR in 2009 was in the Northern Territory (7.9 deaths per 1,000 standard population), while the lowest was in the Australian Capital Territory (5.4 deaths per 1,000 standard population).
* Over the past 20 years, death rates have declined for both males and females for all age groups. The largest proportional decreases in male age-specific death rates over this period occurred for ages 10-14 years (down 58%) and 15-19 years (down 54%). For females, the 1-4 years age group experienced the largest proportional decrease (down 54%), followed by females aged 5-9 years (down 50%).


http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publica...date-dec09.pdf

Immigration....

In the six months of July to December 2009:
In total
􀂉
The number of permanent additions was 109 778, a 4.5 per cent decrease over the corresponding period for the previous year. This is largely due to a decrease in the Non-program component of settler arrivals. This comprised 72 134 settler arrivals plus 37 644 onshore grants. The 11.8 per cent decrease in settler arrivals was offset by a 13.5 per cent increase in onshore grants.
􀂉
Australia’s net permanent addition was 69 269—a decrease of 9.0 per cent over the previous period.

[Jim Goose]

Permanent departures
In the six months of July to December 2009:
In total The number of permanent departures was 40 509 an increase of 4.3 per cent over the corresponding period for the previous year.
By country
􀂉 48.3 per cent of all permanent departures were born in Australia (incl. ext. territories).
􀂉 Of the 20 933 permanent departures who were born overseas, 22.8 per cent were born in New Zealand and 15.1 per cent were born in the United Kingdom.
􀂉 The main countries of intended residence for all permanent departures were New Zealand (18.4 per cent), the United Kingdom (14.8 per cent), the United States of America (9.5 per cent) and Singapore (7.3 per cent).

[pottery beige]

Stupid people breeding is the only population dilemma.....

[Jim Goose]

CAPITAL CITY GROWTH

At 30 June 2009, more than 14.0 million people, close to two-thirds of Australia's population, resided in a capital city Statistical Division (SD). The combined population of capital city SDs increased by 310,200 in the 12 months to June 2009.

In 2008-09, Melbourne recorded the largest growth of all capital city SDs, increasing by 93,500 people, followed by Sydney (85,400), Perth (52,200) and Brisbane (52,100). The population growth in Melbourne SD equated to an average increase of almost 1,800 people per week, while the population of Sydney SD increased by over 1,600 people per week.

Population growth in Australia's capital city SDs occurred at a rate of 2.3% in 2008-09, faster than that in the remainder of Australia (1.9%). Greater Hobart had the lowest growth rate at 1.2%.

The growth rates experienced in all capital city SDs for 2008-09 were higher than their average annual growth rates over the five years to June 2009.