Should Lincoln come to Australia?

[fou_bleu]

Ever since Ford initiated the Lincoln turn around, I have become quite intrigued in the future of the brand (not just products) - especially on a global scale.

With the announcement the brand will debut in the Chinese market in 2014, I was interested in seeing what your opinions were in regards to starting up the brand here in Australia (& maybe even NZ)?

I'd love to see Lincoln start up here under their new marketing direction ("progressive luxury") with the coming Focus-based compact, MKZ, and all-new MKX in inner city concept dealerships with the full concierge service that they are now offering in the U.S.

Even I, a 19 yo, would snatch up a MKZ - it's just simply beautiful!

For a refresher on the current(ly aged) line-up: www.lincoln.com (N.B. all bar the 2013 MKZ are due for all-new replacements in the next couple of years.)

Let's also try to not start the notorious RWD / Falcon blah blah debate - we've been there, done that (only 1,000,000 times before!) - the fact is, it's not happening in the foreseeable future, so live with it! :P

[Nikked]

No...


Austalia already has enough brands! lol


I'd rather see the Flacon be the underpinnings for a upmarket Lincoln sedan, that gets sold here as a Fairlane

[mik]

It's probably a good car, but I think oz is already flooded with motor cars,, I reckon trying to get decent sales numbers would be a very hard task.

[Ford_The_Win]

No. It has absolutely no heritage or meaning in Australia, nobody under the age of 50 knows what a Lincoln is, and I don't know how well people would take to a marque named after an American president. More importantly, it would probably cannibalise sales of the G6E/Terri Titanium. Besides, Americans just don't do luxury very well.

[fou_bleu]

Wow, it only took 1 post for the inevitable....

As for market saturation - I can certainly appreciate that point of view and there is probably a great case for that argument. There would definitely need to be availability in other RHD markets to make RHD development viable.

On the other [hypothetical] hand, it would be an interesting marketing experiment to launch the all-new Lincoln brand into a market with virtually no recognition of the current mess they're trying to clean up in the U.S. - I do honestly believe their new approach would leave very little in the way of being scared of the 'American-ness' of the brand and the products are/will certainly be of comparable status (to Lexus etc.).

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

More importantly, it would probably cannibalise sales of the G6E/Terri Titanium.

Given what the pricing would be like, they wouldn't be cross shopped - A4, 3er, IS and C-Class on the other hand...

[SSD-85]

Originally Posted by 4RD4TW

On the other [hypothetical] hand, it would be an interesting marketing experiment to launch the all-new Lincoln brand into a market with virtually no recognition of the current mess they're trying to clean up in the U.S.

I think the Explorer was proof enough how US market-specific perceptions can quickly damage sales here. And with current medium technologies this problem is only amplified.

Originally Posted by 4RD4TW

Given what the pricing would be like, they wouldn't be cross shopped - A4, 3er, IS and C-Class on the other hand...

Lincoln have a LOT of catching up to do if they want to price their vehicles like the ones you sugggest.


Not trying to shoot you down here, just offering some relevant points

I personally would love to see Lincoln here, or at least one badged as a Fairlane.

[fou_bleu]

Originally Posted by Eagleheart

I think the Explorer was proof enough how US market-specific perceptions can quickly damage sales here. And with current medium technologies this problem is only amplified.

Perhaps, but I'd be willing to bet the MKZ and all-new MKX marketed well would create quite the buzz among the target market and the interested alike.

Lincoln have a LOT of catching up to do if they want to price their vehicles like the ones you suggest.

I imagine a fully optioned MKZ nearing $65 -$70k AUD - that would make it somewhat of a bargain compared to what's being charged by Audi/BMW/M-B...

[4stanger]

Originally Posted by 4RD4TW

Ever since Ford initiated the Lincoln turn around, I have become quite intrigued in the future of the brand (not just products) - especially on a global scale.

With the announcement the brand will debut in the Chinese market in 2014, I was interested in seeing what your opinions were in regards to starting up the brand here in Australia (& maybe even NZ)?

IMHO- If any Ford based North American product was to be brought here to the asian pacific market, let it be the Mustang.

[Franco Cozzo]

I think it would be a good idea, GM has brought Opel here, and they're marketing it like some upmarket German brand from their ads.

Bring Lincoln over and don't associate it with Ford, people wouldn't know any better and it removes the Ford negative stereotype.

[FGII-XR6]

That just creates a biased thread. Ford need to try to get the Falcon selling not bring in more imports as direct competition. and yes when Aussies look for larger cars RWD is the prefered option

Originally Posted by 4RD4TW

Let's also try to not start the notorious RWD / Falcon blah blah debate - we've been there, done that (only 1,000,000 times before!) - the fact is, it's not happening in the foreseeable future, so live with it! :P

[fou_bleu]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Bring Lincoln over and don't associate it with Ford, people wouldn't know any better and it removes the Ford negative stereotype.

Cha-ching! Hence it could just work here and in other places.

Originally Posted by au3xr6

That just creates a biased thread. Ford need to try to get the Falcon selling not bring in more imports as direct competition. and yes when Aussies look for larger cars RWD is the prefered option

Bias toward what? Reality?

I fail to see how a $65k Mondeo-sized luxury car would be direct Falcon competition? Sure, in reality it's about 98% of the size of a Falcon, but it's still a different league altogether.

Also, the kind of people Lincoln are targeting with the new MKZ don't mind for FWD/AWD layouts.

The only type of reference to Ford in this thread should really be in the context of FoMoCo, too - Lincoln is it's own brand, would be here for it's own reasons and would ideally have NOTHING to do with FoA.

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by 4RD4TW

Perhaps, but I'd be willing to bet the MKZ and all-new MKX marketed well would create quite the buzz among the target market and the interested alike.

But who exactly is the target market? Who would buy Lincolns if they came to Australia?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

But who exactly is the target market? Who would buy Lincolns if they came to Australia?

People who buy Lexus that are unaware that its a fancy Toyota.

[2011G6E]

From "luxury" cars to their Turks, Yanks just don't get the idea of quality...not on the level we're used to. Horrible plastics, shoddily built, technically behind. They do make good cars, but sometimes they just trip over their feet and put out monstrosities that only a badge blind made in the USA customer would accept.

[FGII-XR6]

just thought it was a bit arrogant of you asking what we think of a car but then telling us not to make comparisons with the falcon we are entitled to our opinions and if we fell the comparison is justified what right do you have to tell us to ignore it

Originally Posted by 4RD4TW

Cha-ching! Hence it could just work here and in other places.



Bias toward what? Reality?

I fail to see how a $65k Mondeo-sized luxury car would be direct Falcon competition? Sure, in reality it's about 98% of the size of a Falcon, but it's still a different league altogether.

Also, the kind of people Lincoln are targeting with the new MKZ don't mind for FWD/AWD layouts.

The only type of reference to Ford in this thread should really be in the context of FoMoCo, too - Lincoln is it's own brand, would be here for it's own reasons and would ideally have NOTHING to do with FoA.

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

No. It has absolutely no heritage or meaning in Australia, nobody under the age of 50 knows what a Lincoln is, and I don't know how well people would take to a marque named after an American president. More importantly, it would probably cannibalise sales of the G6E/Terri Titanium. Besides, Americans just don't do luxury very well.

If the name Lincoln is too American, they could always Australianise the name and call it the Gillard.

[FPV GTHO]

At some point surely its inevitable, as they want it to return to a global luxury brand. For the short term though, no. At least let them penetrate Europe first and see how they combat the traditional luxury marques.

[fou_bleu]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

just thought it was a bit arrogant of you asking what we think of a car but then telling us not to make comparisons with the falcon we are entitled to our opinions and if we fell the comparison is justified what right do you have to tell us to ignore it

Well you're more than entitled to your own opinion and sharing's caring, but I'm not asking for any sort of comparison here - I'm asking if, on brand merit alone (almost as if FoMoCo never existed and Lincoln did), is the Lincoln brand and it's products compatible with the current Australian luxury car market (read: Audi, BMW, Infiniti, Lexus and Mercedes).

I intended to convey that FoA and the Falc/Terri have not a thing in the world to do with this topic.

[fou_bleu]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

From "luxury" cars to their Turks, Yanks just don't get the idea of quality...not on the level we're used to. Horrible plastics, shoddily built, technically behind. They do make good cars, but sometimes they just trip over their feet and put out monstrosities that only a badge blind made in the USA customer would accept.

I'm yet to read anything that says any of the current Lincoln's (bar the Navigator) are made with "horrible plastics", or are "shoddily built" and with the new MKZ especially, are "technically behind". As a matter of fact, it's quite the opposite of late...

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

At least let them penetrate Europe first and see how they combat the traditional luxury marques.

With one fake-chrome plastic hood ornament at a time, I expect!

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

From "luxury" cars to their Turks, Yanks just don't get the idea of quality...not on the level we're used to. Horrible plastics, shoddily built, technically behind. They do make good cars, but sometimes they just trip over their feet and put out monstrosities that only a badge blind made in the USA customer would accept.

Your use of rhetorical fallacies indicate a lack of critical thinking. You managed to hit stereotyping, generalizing, hyperbole, rhetorical irony, and ad hominem. 5 fallacies in 3 sentences!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by 4RD4TW

Well you're more than entitled to your own opinion and sharing's caring, but I'm not asking for any sort of comparison here - I'm asking if, on brand merit alone (almost as if FoMoCo never existed and Lincoln did), is the Lincoln brand and it's products compatible with the current Australian luxury car market (read: Audi, BMW, Infiniti, Lexus and Mercedes).

I intended to convey that FoA and the Falc/Terri have not a thing in the world to do with this topic.

Would you be willing to lay down $76,000 to $90,000 for either an MKX or an MKZ ?
Because that's what the comparable Lexus sell for here, having limited run RHD production volume costs a fortune.

[Luke Plaizier]

Absolutely, without a doubt, yes.

Lexus had no history in Australia, and it came across.
Infiniti had no history in Australia, and it's coming across.
Cherry, Geely, Mahindra bla bla bla.

That 'it has no history'argument is the dumbest I have ever heard, a seriously hand-in-sand moment.

I see two things.

(1) brand fragmentation - if that fragmentation helps to benefit Ford rather than disadvantage it, I'm all for it. Why make it hard for Ford/Lincoln when so many other brands are entering the market? Either those against this idea are just trolling, or they want Ford Australia to fail.

(2) Luxury - since losing Range Rover, Jaguar, Aston etc, Ford is in bad need of being able to participate in the Quality/Prestige market. Did Lexus detract from Toyota? Or has it help fool people into thinking that Toyota is higher quality than it actually is?

Lincoln is sorely needed in Australia.


Lukeyson

[fou_bleu]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Would you be willing to lay down $76,000 to $90,000 for either an MKX or an MKZ ?
Because that's what the comparable Lexus sell for here, having limited run RHD production volume costs a fortune.

One would hope that $76k would be an MKZ Reserve with all the goodies (considering that's about $50k in the U.S.) - not even I believe they could get away with charging $90k! Hence the requirement for other RHD markets - I'm not saying they should be here tomorrow...

[imugli]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

Absolutely, without a doubt, yes.
Infiniti had no history in Australia, and it's coming across.

Not true IMO...

Infiniti has been here before (remember the q45 experiment?) and there are a bunch of Infiniti G35s getting around on the grey import market. Even Infiniti themselves realise it may be a good thing...

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257A1600229121

[pottery beige]

I am rather inclined to silence, and whether that be wise or not, it is at least more unusual nowadays to find a man who can hold his tongue than to find one who cannot...

No..

[flappist]

One observation.

Luxury Fords have not done very well in Australia in recent years.

LTD, Force, GT-E, F6-E, TL50 all struggled/are struggling and previous attempts at boutique dealerships and models have ended badly.

[Joe5619]

Yes, but only if they want to use an Australain built Falcon as the basis for their large sedan!!

[fou_bleu]

Originally Posted by flappist

One observation.

Luxury Fords have not done very well in Australia in recent years.

LTD, Force, GT-E, F6-E, TL50 all struggled/are struggling and previous attempts at boutique dealerships and models have ended badly.

I don't seem to be able to stress enough that we're talking about Lincoln here, not Ford or FPV or Tickford or anything related to FoA products or branding at all.

Unlike the examples given, Lincoln isn't a trim level, it is a completely focused brand [now] with focused products - from a marketing standpoint alone this opens up so many opportunities to create a position and identity in the marketplace that Ford or FPV could never achieve with a Falcon or Territory based product - no matter how good the product is in reality, the marketing behind it can only really be in addition to other Falcon products.

[GT014]

not a fan of the push button shift !!