Rant: Motorcycle/Scooter Riders in city

BeStRaFe · 03-11-2007, 10:46 PM

now,
im normally one to be a little quick behind the wheel, overtaking where needed (and sometimes when not) but i have become to get very annoyed at motorcyclists and vespa/scooter riders in general..

now. here is where the story comes in... in the past 3 weeks.
i have hit, not nearly hit 2 riders being absolute idiots and had a great number of near misses in the 8 months i have lived in the city (sydney)

what is annoying me...
a)chopping in between lanes, i have 2 major scratches from the handle bars of riders who have tried to squeeze between me and another car, and have just ridden off.
b) overtaking cars stopped in traffic OVER DOUBLE LINES WITH ON COMING TRAFFIC! this is just dangerous for them and other around as its just monumentally stupid.
c) overtaking everyone to be at the front of the lights...
if the bike is quicker then me, in most cases i dont really mind,,, but when 50cc vespas do this, its just making me angry...

now, the 2 incidents,
both where the rider was not ment to be, and in my blind spots... im not looking for a object in my blindspot when there is not ment to be one...

once turing into a side street from a main road.. the bike was jumping up the inside... my rear door and drivers door damaged quite bad... the vespa in question totaled and the rider not much better off..

second time me turning into another street (right turn at any time kinda thing with a pedestrian crossing... a bike going up the inside to get infront of the lights... rider shaken (charged with neg driving, not indicating and a few other things) and bike scratched...

now... the laws need to be tougher on bikes for this sort of behaviour, its just reducilous!!!!
who is with me!

Damien · 03-11-2007, 11:15 PM

What really annoys me is when I'm waiting at traffic lights on a dual carriageway road and a motorcycle sneaks up in between the two lanes of traffic to get to the front of the pack. I mean, I know motorcycles can get a quicker take off from the lights, but I don't believe it's legal and I don't think it's very safe.

BeStRaFe · 03-11-2007, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

What really annoys me is when I'm waiting at traffic lights on a dual carriageway road and a motorcycle sneaks up in between the two lanes of traffic to get to the front of the pack. I mean, I know motorcycles can get a quicker take off from the lights, but I don't believe it's legal and I don't think it's very safe.

its not legal.
and they get booked for neg/dangerous driving... i would like it to be enforced MUCH HARDER though

flappist · 04-11-2007, 12:00 AM

You don't like bikes, ban them, lock up the riders. They don't like doof doofs or modded cars, ban them lock the drivers.

Pretty soon the road is safe because the only thing left are pedestrians and you two are in jail for possession of modded cars with doof wondering "How the F*&^%$)*K did this happen".

Get along with everyone else it will be better in the long run.

Oh and as you do not ride I will explain it to you. The reason why WE push to the front is so we lessen the chance of getting run over and killed by doof doof texting ipoding mutant bogan idiot p-plate dropkicks in modded riced up falcon/commy/jap thing/korean thing who spend most of their time looking EVERYWHERE except the road ahead because they are expert drivers.......

Gaz · 04-11-2007, 12:02 AM

There is on going debate about the legalities. Its a grey area in the law.

As for why they do it. Ride a bike in the middle of traffic with some of the drivers on the road and you will soon see why it is done.

Outbackjack · 04-11-2007, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

You don't like bikes, ban them, lock up the riders. They don't like doof doofs or modded cars, ban them lock the drivers.

Pretty soon the road is safe because the only thing left are pedestrians and you two are in jail for possession of modded cars with doof wondering "How the F*&^%$)*K did this happen".

Get along with everyone else it will be better in the long run.

Oh and as you do not ride I will explain it to you. The reason why WE push to the front is so we lessen the chance of getting run over and killed by doof doof texting ipoding mutant bogan idiot p-plate dropkicks in modded riced up falcon/commy/jap thing/korean thing who spend most of their time looking EVERYWHERE except the road ahead because they are expert drivers.......

Ditto Flappy.... It seems that the only drivers that have issues with motor cyclists are the ones that dont, or have never, riden motor cycles on the road. I always give motor cyclists, and now days, scooter riders plenty of slack. There are lots of people that are using these things through necessity. I may sometimes get a little annoyed at being held up by a scooter, but that is better than carrying the bourdon of knowing that I hurt someone, or worse. Even if technically they are at fault. A good driver is a patient and tolerant driver.... except when it comes to commodud's. Then all bets are off!!!

(just kidding guys)

BeStRaFe · 04-11-2007, 01:04 AM

i personally have ridden and do ride a bike in the city on occasion..
i gave up riding to work as the gas car is just as quick and i don't get wet!
i have no problems with a bike of adequate speed and rider skill being in front of me at the lights...

however i do have a problem with the riders flaunting the law riding in between city traffic and cutting off other road users...

Squalo · 04-11-2007, 01:12 AM

Bestrafe, I'd be ****ed about those two riders as well. They have no defence - they're taught very clearly just how responsible they are for their own safety in the licencing training (which is real training, not the nancy test you do for a cage licence). I'd say they are just as bad behind the wheel of a car.

The reason riders split to the front is simply because they can, no point getting annoyed about it because they'll be gone before you can get a good head of steam up anyway... don't like it? get a bike! That's what they did! and you might even realise how much fun it is compared to driving a cage.

Agree somewhat on the 50cc side of things, I'd suggest that those riders - who are likely new to the moto scene - will either realise the error of their ways themselves and cease and desist, or Darwin will step in to decide their fate for them. But best to treat them like cyclists, and remember that you could very easily have their death on your conscience should you do the wrong thing.

Scooter sales are increasing at something like 30% each year, so get used to it...

As for riding down the double centrelines, I've only ever seen outlaw Hardley types doing that. But anyone who does should immediately forfeit their riders licence.

SP.UTE1 · 04-11-2007, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

You don't like bikes, ban them, lock up the riders. They don't like doof doofs or modded cars, ban them lock the drivers.

Pretty soon the road is safe because the only thing left are pedestrians and you two are in jail for possession of modded cars with doof wondering "How the F*&^%$)*K did this happen".

Get along with everyone else it will be better in the long run.

Oh and as you do not ride I will explain it to you. The reason why WE push to the front is so we lessen the chance of getting run over and killed by doof doof texting ipoding mutant bogan idiot p-plate dropkicks in modded riced up falcon/commy/jap thing/korean thing who spend most of their time looking EVERYWHERE except the road ahead because they are expert drivers.......

X 2, Flappist for Prime Minister

:

pauljh74 · 04-11-2007, 10:50 AM

I don't have an issue with riders moving up between STATIONARY cars to get to the front (as long as they don't scratch my car), but I am seeing more of them doing it in moving traffic. The things some car drivers do are pretty shocking too. You have a car driver seeing a gap in the next lane and then moving across - if a rider is coming between the cars at that time, they get hit. The driver is less likely to look for the rider moving between moving cars because they shouldn't be doing it at all!

A rider got killed on the Sth Eastern Freeway a few months back - someone I know saw the rider a minute before he got cleaned up by a semi trailer, the guy was zipping between cars on the freeway!

normxb · 04-11-2007, 01:22 PM

I don't think this will change much , it's been that way with bikes since I got my licence in 1970 , just on a larger scale ( more cars/bikes on the road )

I got my bike permit somewhere around the Mid 80's , Dad had a massive "Yamaha 100"

: , rode it around the block twice and never touched it again . I found there was "2 wheels missing" AND the damn roof leaked .

Norm

T_Terror · 04-11-2007, 02:50 PM

Get over it

bowsaw · 04-11-2007, 02:51 PM

Got to ride with a bit of common sense, i skip thjrough in moving traffic, but i will go to the next car, wait for a bit, then make the next jump, not in one go, as i have seen so many do, to many morons in cars out there, and i sure do go to the front of the line of i can, why not, got to be some compensation for putting up with idiots in cars, i have never had a accident in 24 yrs of riding.

Gammaboy · 04-11-2007, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Oh and as you do not ride I will explain it to you. The reason why WE push to the front is so we lessen the chance of getting run over and killed by doof doof texting ipoding mutant bogan idiot p-plate dropkicks in modded riced up falcon/commy/jap thing/korean thing who spend most of their time looking EVERYWHERE except the road ahead because they are expert drivers.......

You left out those self important cucksockers in S class Mercs etc... however, couldn't have put it better myself.
Anyone else not class scooter riders as "Motorcyclists"? Seems to me they're generally about getting to work cheaper rather than all the stuff that makes a motorcyclist a motorcyclist...

Conrad · 04-11-2007, 10:42 PM

This is a touchy subject for me as my older brother was just in a serious motorbike accident and will be in the hospitals for 3 months with 2 broken legs.

He didn't hit anyone or get hit and he wasn't speeding. Rear wheel slipped on damp leaves on the road and slid into a guard rail.

kaldek · 04-11-2007, 11:00 PM

Honestly you can only say why motorbike riders do things or why they feel justified to do things if you're also a rider. Obviously, I ride (every day - my XR6 Turbo is the "family car"). My father has been riding bikes 10 years before I was born, and I'm 33.

He taught me a very valuable lesson: "Either move through the cars or they will move through you". And he is DAMN right - due to being so vulnerable the bike rider must ensure his energies are spent on where he needs to be - and if you're always ahead of (or faster than) cars, you can focus *forwards* rather than backwards.

Did you know that Police bike riders are taught to lane split to the front of traffic lights, because it is known to be safer? At the front of the queue you can get away quick and then focus on the road surface ahead, not worrying about all the cars behind and around you.

YES, some bikers take it too far - witness the guy who rides between the cars at a constant warp speed. He never slows down based on what's coming up, never seems to be wary of cars that are likely to cut him off. Some people may survive 40 years doing this through sheer chance, others will come unstuck. Personally, I lane split between moving traffic but never more than 20km/h faster than the cars/trucks as it means I can always wash that speed off if someone cuts me off right in front of me. I also "bunny hop" in bursts of speed so that I'm never sitting in a blind spot (I prefer to be next to the driver's front quarter panel where I am glued in their vision). I also slow right down if one lane of traffic is moving and the other lane is stopped - this is a PRIME case where when a gap opens up the guy in the stopped lane attempts to dart out into the moving lane.

Knowing what to do in traffic and survive on a bike is something I call "biker ESP". You have to know what makes drivers tick, and understand when the frustration makes them change lanes. You also have to know when it's safe to overtake, and how fast you need to do it (sometimes REALLY fast).

Oh, and for those of you who drive to work on the South Eastern Freeway in Melbourne, I ride a red bike with twin underseat pipes, a black-silver helmet, grey jacket, and a black bag on the back of the bike. I leave from Cranbourne about 8:40 am and arrive in the city at 9:15 (so you can decide if it's me you see). Next time you see me zip past you and make you think I'm being a tool, please consider that I am 110% mentally committed to what I'm doing and had made an assessment of what you and the cars around you were likely to be doing 5-10 seconds before I even passed you. I am certainly not "fecking about", but if I wanted to take 1-2 hours to get to the city I may as well also drive a car. Getting there in 40 minutes requires lane splitting.

Grum · 05-11-2007, 12:26 AM

90% of bike riders need to realise they are not faster than the cars they just lane splitted to get infront of! It 5hits me. If they were fast enough to warrant being infront of me they would have beaten me to the red light!

Outbackjack · 05-11-2007, 01:14 AM

I have been riding for 30 years now. I have always lane split. It is a fact of life that if done properly it is the safest way to get around. Those tin top drivers that dont like it have a alpha problem. I do feel sorry for the drivers that get a damaged mirror or similar though. I have never damaged a car before. One thing car drivers need to remember.... if the average car driver was as good a driver as the average motor cyclist is rider, the roads would be a far safer place.
This proverb belongs to another group of people, they will know who they are.

"there old motorcyclists, and there are bold motorcyclists. But ther are no old bold motorcyclists"

flappist · 05-11-2007, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grum

90% of bike riders need to realise they are not faster than the cars they just lane splitted to get infront of! It 5hits me. If they were fast enough to warrant being infront of me they would have beaten me to the red light!

So what you are saying is that if you are in traffic stuck behind a little old lady in a Hyundai the reason is that her car is faster than your XR8 and she is a better driver than you....

Fair enough......

Grum · 05-11-2007, 02:13 AM

Your old lady in her Hyundai dosn't lane split to get infront of me at the lights. If she is I will go around her when its safe to do so...

Squalo · 05-11-2007, 02:20 AM

LOL!

Grum, it's not a race to the red light - if that's how you drive, go and hand your licence in tomorrow, before you kill someone like that idiot in the Commodore a few months ago who killed an old couple.

Bikes split to the front so that a) they are safer, as they've just placed most of the immediate threats behind them, and b) they are not suffocating in the exhaust fumes of dozens of idling cars. You're one of those guys referred to earlier, who's never ridden a bike - right?

Scooters are a different story, but if there's scooters around that means you're in a city and you simply need to allow for the fact that scooters are a better means of getting around than your cage - even if they occasionally hold you up. When fuel prices force your cage off the road you'll be eyeing up scooters too.

In the meantime, good luck fending off those Excels and Corollas

Grum · 05-11-2007, 02:32 AM

Way to late to start an argument. Yes I have never ridden a road bike as a form of transport.

The serious and competent bike riders do not worry me and when I see the coming I give them room. Its the stupid city people that will lane split to get in front of you and then hold you up. You get "P" plated female riders in high heels who struggle to keep their scoter upright at the lights FFS.

A lot (read not all) of bike riders split to the front because they are arrogant road users. They can "share" the road like everyone else and maintain their rightful position is flowing traffic.

merlin · 05-11-2007, 07:56 AM

Jeez get over it - who cares - bikes arn't exactly going to hold you up at the lights (I can hit 100 in under 3 seconds) so i dont see why you are worried, unless you drive an Enzo...

Since the dawn of time, stupid car drivers hate motorcyclists and stupid motorcyclists hate car drivers. I just get on with life and dont let such things bother me.

SlikedTurb · 05-11-2007, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowsaw

i have never had a accident in 24 yrs of riding.

yeah, but you've probably caused 100s

SlikedTurb · 05-11-2007, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaldek

Honestly you can only say why motorbike riders do things or why they feel justified to do things if you're also a rider. Obviously, I ride (every day - my XR6 Turbo is the "family car"). My father has been riding bikes 10 years before I was born, and I'm 33.

He taught me a very valuable lesson: "Either move through the cars or they will move through you". And he is DAMN right - due to being so vulnerable the bike rider must ensure his energies are spent on where he needs to be - and if you're always ahead of (or faster than) cars, you can focus *forwards* rather than backwards.

Did you know that Police bike riders are taught to lane split to the front of traffic lights, because it is known to be safer? At the front of the queue you can get away quick and then focus on the road surface ahead, not worrying about all the cars behind and around you.

YES, some bikers take it too far - witness the guy who rides between the cars at a constant warp speed. He never slows down based on what's coming up, never seems to be wary of cars that are likely to cut him off. Some people may survive 40 years doing this through sheer chance, others will come unstuck. Personally, I lane split between moving traffic but never more than 20km/h faster than the cars/trucks as it means I can always wash that speed off if someone cuts me off right in front of me. I also "bunny hop" in bursts of speed so that I'm never sitting in a blind spot (I prefer to be next to the driver's front quarter panel where I am glued in their vision). I also slow right down if one lane of traffic is moving and the other lane is stopped - this is a PRIME case where when a gap opens up the guy in the stopped lane attempts to dart out into the moving lane.

Knowing what to do in traffic and survive on a bike is something I call "biker ESP". You have to know what makes drivers tick, and understand when the frustration makes them change lanes. You also have to know when it's safe to overtake, and how fast you need to do it (sometimes REALLY fast).

Oh, and for those of you who drive to work on the South Eastern Freeway in Melbourne, I ride a red bike with twin underseat pipes, a black-silver helmet, grey jacket, and a black bag on the back of the bike. I leave from Cranbourne about 8:40 am and arrive in the city at 9:15 (so you can decide if it's me you see). Next time you see me zip past you and make you think I'm being a tool, please consider that I am 110% mentally committed to what I'm doing and had made an assessment of what you and the cars around you were likely to be doing 5-10 seconds before I even passed you. I am certainly not "fecking about", but if I wanted to take 1-2 hours to get to the city I may as well also drive a car. Getting there in 40 minutes requires lane splitting.

Typical "all about ME" mentallity.

"I've got to be there in the lightning fast time so i'm going to break the law to do it. STUFF everybody else. Who cares about them."

freaky · 05-11-2007, 10:44 AM

motorbike riders i dont mind. its the scooter riders in the city with their business suits on that annoy me zipping up the inside scratching my car. sh&ts me to tears.

and cyclists that decide my car is something they can lean on at the lights.

:

mcnews · 05-11-2007, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grum

90% of bike riders need to realise they are not faster than the cars they just lane splitted to get infront of! It 5hits me. If they were fast enough to warrant being infront of me they would have beaten me to the red light!

You have to be kidding right! The slowest most piece of junk roadbikes like GS500 commuters still do 12 second quarter miles. On any decent bike if actually baiting the 99% of car drivers that try and accelerate hard from the lights it is actually quite hard to accelerate that slow and feels strange doing so. Most decent scooters will still out drag most cars with little effort. The ones you come across must be 50cc chinese stepthroughs.

mcnews · 05-11-2007, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien

What really annoys me is when I'm waiting at traffic lights on a dual carriageway road and a motorcycle sneaks up in between the two lanes of traffic to get to the front of the pack. I mean, I know motorcycles can get a quicker take off from the lights, but I don't believe it's legal and I don't think it's very safe.

It is legal in some states and should be legal in all.

kremmen · 05-11-2007, 10:59 AM

whats the problem again?

If there is enough room I go to the front, if there isn't i don't. After riding for 15 years, its best to get out of harms way before it harms you.

Tribal · 05-11-2007, 11:08 AM

Two rules when you are riding, pretend you are invisible and always be up the front - it is simply a case of survival of the fittest...

A good rider will always see what cars are about to do and have the visibility that car drivers just don't have, but splitting lanes at speed is dangerous for all.