The ETS (Extra Tax Scheme) has been DEFEATED

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by MO

Good point never saw that one!

I was warned by a plumber with connections in Canberra to NOT claim the subsidy if i fitted a tank because sooner or later that residence will attract a rainwater tax....

[MO]

So the warning is there any subsidy offered can and will eventually attract a tax for the gov't

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by MO

So the warning is there any subsidy offered can and will eventually attract a tax for the gov't

I wonder if that projected $1100 ETS tax per husehold is the payback for the "stimulus" grant handed out this year.. Plus interest... the numbers seem suspiciously close...
The money has to be recouped somehow right?

[MO]

You really do have to wonder don't you. Are we reading too much into it or is it put that way to put you off because with most ppl it just becomes to hard?

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I wonder if that projected $1100 ETS tax per husehold is the payback for the "stimulus" grant handed out this year.. Plus interest... the numbers seem suspiciously close...
The money has to be recouped somehow right?

Payback for one year, the tax would be for ever.
It may work, just as the alchopop tax stopped all the schoolies getting drunk this year.... :

If the powers that be were fair dinkum, why don't give up thier free life time travel passes, i imagine all that free travel causes a decent carbon footprint.

[Walt Kowalski]

Originally Posted by Wally

I think you'll find there is significant scientific and anecdotal evidence to support the notion of global warming. NASA's Goddard Institute comes to mind as an organisation who doesn't have reason, but to tell it as it is....afterall putting stuff and people in space does require some fairly precise data.

Wally:

You would know then that Dr James Hansen from NASA is the hero and the world's leading climate scientist pin up boy of the ETS climate change crowd.

He is the grandfather of global warming theory and is now saying an ETS would be a failure and we have to look for other alternatives.


Google it like I did but here’s a quick summary:

James E. Hansen is best known for his research in the field of climatology, his testimony on climate change to congressional committees in 1988 that helped raise broad awareness of global warming, and his advocacy of action to limit the impacts of climate change. For full text see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hansen


Last week, Dr. Hansen told the Guardian:

He is vehemently opposed to the carbon market schemes – in which permits to pollute are bought and sold – which are seen by the EU and other governments as the most efficient way to cut emissions and move to a new clean energy economy.


Hansen says it would be better for the planet and for future generations if next week's Copenhagen climate change summit ended in collapse

Your pin up boy even thinks an Extra Tax System is useless

http://seekingalpha.com/article/176560-dr-james-hansen-vehemently-opposed-to-carbon-cap-and-trade

[rodderz]

See the front page of the news.com.au site all day has been about the protests in Europe to get a climate deal done at Copenhagen
http://www.news.com.au/world/tens-of...-1225807386910

The wood ducks have failed to get past the green part where it says "climate change" and look into what it will do to their country and their freedoms long term. It goes to show how much spin is put on about the subject so that the real agenda behind it is ignored.

[MO]

It really is sad that so many have been conned/dumbed down to believe anything they are fed.
I reckon you could have them believe that the world will be invaded tomorrow by aliens who will commit mass rape and torture and that we cannot stop them. So everyone should commit suicide.

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Wait for rain water consumption tax if you collect rainwater.... all those who claimed the tank subsidy inadvertantly signed up for that tax....

haha so right 4Vman, whilst we were doing renos early last year was tipped off about this as well, heck yer I wanted water tanks whilst on restrictions here in Syd I want to wash my cars anytime without the neighbours putting me in.
Hence we paid without claiming for the rebate, it will come to bite you be warned !
MO so right sheep are like that.

[SB076]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

If the powers that be were fair dinkum, why don't give up thier free life time travel passes, i imagine all that free travel causes a decent carbon footprint.

Apparently to send Australia's 90 or so personal to Copenhagen to attend the climate change conference eqautes to approx. 400 tonne of carbon (think this info was in the Herald Sun)

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by MO

It really is sad that so many have been conned/dumbed down to believe anything they are fed.
I reckon you could have them believe that the world will be invaded tomorrow by aliens who will commit mass rape and torture and that we cannot stop them. So everyone should commit suicide.

You've just described 55% of the Australian electorate.. (and 80% of holdens customers..)

[Romulus]

Has anyone heard the ramblings of Malcolm Turnball on his blog? He's in such support of an ETS, and spewed so much vitriol against the Liberal Party and Tony Abbott it has been suggested the Labor Party recruit him.

It goes to show the extent of big business lobbying Turball to get this legislation through. How'd have thought he almost succeeded.

[uranium_death]

The ETS almost reminds me of a snippet from the greatest PC game ever, Star Control II.

The alien race, the "Druuge" were a selfish race of people that would acquire goods of value and trade them (to the holder of a valuable artifact) for nothing...though you manage to take advantage of them.

Anyway, their planet, Zeta Persei I is their base of operations. The planet (and the Druuge race) is run by the Crimson Corporation.

Literally everything costs money...you have to pay for the air you breathe.

We seem to be headed that way...so much for 'working families'.

[rodderz]

Originally Posted by TVS Super Pursuit

Has anyone heard the ramblings of Malcolm Turnball on his blog? He's in such support of an ETS, and spewed so much vitriol against the Liberal Party and Tony Abbott it has been suggested the Labor Party recruit him.

It goes to show the extent of big business lobbying Turball to get this legislation through. How'd have thought he almost succeeded.

It hasn't been mentioned in the media that Malcolm Turnbull used to be a director and head of Australian operations of Goldman Sachs, one of the world's biggest banks based out of New York. They have been linked to market manipulation, the Bilderberg group and would have a vested interest in a climate treaty as they would be trading carbon credits. If Turnbull still has some sort of involvement in the company, no wonder he wants it passed through. It seems funny that they are so hell bent on getting it through yet never provide any real reasons for it, only "for the children".

[MO]

Over the next week or so I'm going to get the feeling for the climate change/global warming, ETS etc and just how much ppl in my community actually know and understand it all.

Not a very scientific way of collecting data I know but at least I'll find out how much is apathy,conned,powerlessness etc,there is in a community of about 5000. With age base from babes in arms to elders upto 80+.

I'll use the Morgan gallop poll principle. That is if one person has view A then 10 will etc.

[RG]

Originally Posted by TVS Super Pursuit

Has anyone heard the ramblings of Malcolm Turnball on his blog? He's in such support of an ETS, and spewed so much vitriol against the Liberal Party and Tony Abbott it has been suggested the Labor Party recruit him.

It goes to show the extent of big business lobbying Turball to get this legislation through. How'd have thought he almost succeeded.

Without getting too far off track here (and against T&C) Turnbull was terrible for the liberals and the most Labor-like liberal leader I can think of. The way he stood there against the majority of the party and said "I won't leave" and caused factions to stand against each other was extremely Labor like.

[Walt Kowalski]

This morning's ABC news actually made reference to the East Anglia Climate Change fraud cover up.

It was exposed quite a few weeks ago but this is the first time I have known the ABC to even mention it.

It's one small step towards the truth but I am not holding my breath for Aunty to tell both sides

[MO]

How about getting the voice on talkback shows and the like,the more ppl heard this way will have an affect.

[RG]

Just having a read of all the reader comments on the news.com.au & Herald Sun websites regarding all of this. Interestingly the vast majority, I'm talking 95% here, of people who have made comment are very much against the ETS and are seeing this for what it is, a scam.

Taking into consideration the general type of person who reads these papers and takes the time to write up a post (mainly your local crazies who love a bandwagon) I find it quite odd that there is such a revolt against man made climate change.

Maybe the people won't be deceived on this after all?

EDIT: Bloody hell, even Andrew Bolt is against it, a nice article showing that the wise Tim Flannery is basically a clown. The amount of incorrect predictions that man has made should make him one man not to be listened to by anyone.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/...-1225808413034

[cs123]

Originally Posted by Walt Kowalski

This morning's ABC news actually made reference to the East Anglia Climate Change fraud cover up.

One thing to remember about the CRU hacked emails is that they are not the only group performing research on climate change. I don't see any evidence to suggest that there is a world wide cover up on climate change.

Some scientists certainly came out of that looking bad on a personal level.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by cs123

One thing to remember about the CRU hacked emails is that they are not the only group performing research on climate change. I don't see any evidence to suggest that there is a world wide cover up on climate change.

Some scientists certainly came out of that looking bad on a personal level.

We don't yet have all the dirt to categorically say without any doubt whatsoever that there's a world wide cover up. But the evidence we do have, would suggest that it's more than likely the case. I certainly don't think that Climate Change should take the default position of being correct until otherwise proven 100% to be wrong. I think that if anything, unless man made climate change can be proven to be correct without any reasonable doubt, the default position should be that the earth going through a natural cycle.

[RG]

Originally Posted by Cobra

We don't yet have all the dirt to categorically say without any doubt whatsoever that there's a world wide cover up. But the evidence we do have, would suggest that it's more than likely the case. I certainly don't think that Climate Change should take the default position of being correct until otherwise proven 100% to be wrong. I think that if anything, unless man made climate change can be proven to be correct without any reasonable doubt, the default position should be that the earth going through a natural cycle.

This is true, but there is no money to be made from taking that standpoint therefore the govt. default position will always be as it is.

[SB076]

Originally Posted by cs123

One thing to remember about the CRU hacked emails is that they are not the only group performing research on climate change. I don't see any evidence to suggest that there is a world wide cover up on climate change.

Some scientists certainly came out of that looking bad on a personal level.

Yes they did and they would have lost a lot of credibility (and rightly so) make you wonder if they are the only ones. Must admit if you work in an industry and you are not sure of future funding you would certaintly be looking at all things possible to justify the government spending money in your line of work. Having said that I dont beleive in a world wide cover up I do beleive that money has unfortunately tainted opinions/decisions and that if there was no money to be made on climate change I beleive the worlds outlook and response would be different than the current path we appear to be taking.

[mcflux]

Originally Posted by Walt Kowalski

This morning's ABC news actually made reference to the East Anglia Climate Change fraud cover up.

It was exposed quite a few weeks ago but this is the first time I have known the ABC to even mention it.

It's one small step towards the truth but I am not holding my breath for Aunty to tell both sides

I've been listening to the BBC World Service lately and boy do they have it in for those who aren't for Copenhagen!

* No mention of climate change believers (be it anthropogenic or natural process) who don't think an ETS/carbon credit/carbon tax scheme is the way to go

* There are only sceptics and (pro Copenhagen/ETS/etc) believers. Believers are asked all flowery & positive questions, sceptics are labelled as "Flat-Earthers" and asked questions in an interrogation-like manner rather than an interview

* Almost back-to-back reports on "(anthropogenic) climate change" in Africa. One sub-saharan country is losing its traditional caravan trade because of unseasonal drought. Meanwhile another sub-saharan country is losing its crops because of unseasonal heavy rain. It's all Man's fault! What are us Westerners going to do about this? Copenhagen must succeed!

The BBC is turning into ACA.

[Bobman]

I'm more concerned that sceptics think we should do nothing and just accept it because "the earth is always changing", yet I can see with my own eyes the changes in "recent years".

So if we do nothing, that's even worse. However, I don't support the notion that the major polluters will be given exemptions.

Behind all the climate change is pollution causes cancer - that is a fact.

[snappy]

Bobman i think you will find that if your sceptic or a sheep we both would agree less pollution would be great . Its not in the best interest of anyone to live in filth.

But when you start to hearing reports that carbon trading is predicted to be a trillion dollar business and a business thats projected to become more profitable then oil .
Its hard not to be sceptical
expecially when most of the world is still in a finacial crisis and talks of a world goverment start to arise with a global currency creating a global economy that will generate trillions with a business plan created by a company called goldman & sachs
. Yes the same company that many economists belive caused the gfc . Is it a coincidence maybe , maybe its a coincidense to that most of these bankers are also in politics. Maybe im paranoid or maybe that sounds a dodgy as i thik it does.


Now in many ways im still a fence sitter when it comes to climate change ive read books , countless blogs and articles for and against man made climate change and have not yet read one theory for that has not been challenged and discredited . An have not been convinced thugh any debate done by our parliment. I just told everyone knows its real.
Allthough i would be more then happy to pay a bit extra tax for research in reneable energy or another solar rebate or nuclear power . Just to live in a cleaner country even if the planet was not in danger.
But i dont want to my money to go to one massive bank account to be spent or syphined somwhere that we are not informed of .

[MO]

Originally Posted by Bobman

I'm more concerned that sceptics think we should do nothing and just accept it because "the earth is always changing", yet I can see with my own eyes the changes in "recent years".

So if we do nothing, that's even worse. However, I don't support the notion that the major polluters will be given exemptions.

Behind all the climate change is pollution causes cancer - that is a fact.

Last sentence is not completely correct,pollution maybe the cause of some cancers but not all.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by TVS Super Pursuit

Has anyone heard the ramblings of Malcolm Turnball on his blog? He's in such support of an ETS, and spewed so much vitriol against the Liberal Party and Tony Abbott it has been suggested the Labor Party recruit him.

It goes to show the extent of big business lobbying Turball to get this legislation through. How'd have thought he almost succeeded.

Malcolm Turnbull may be an elected member of parliament, however, he’s still a merchant banker who stands to earn many more millions of dollars in trading carbon credits through his involvement in Goldman Sachs. So, who’s best interest was he looking out for?

Who will be selling carbon credits to countries that have volcanos?

Could be a dollar or two in it? :hihi:

Re T&C. This is not a political comment, just an observation.

Cheers

[rodderz]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Malcolm Turnbull may be an elected member of parliament, however, he’s still a merchant banker who stands to earn many more millions of dollars in trading carbon credits through his involvement in Goldman Sachs. So, who’s best interest was he looking out for?

Who will be selling carbon credits to countries that have volcanos?

Could be a dollar or two in it? :hihi:

Re T&C. This is not a political comment, just an observation.

Cheers

Absolutely agree. The big worldwide powerful banks such as Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Citigroup, Rothchilds all have ties within having vested interests in carbon trading and economy manipulation in the past. Either past CEO's or employees that go onto government positions or "Climate change organisations".

[ltd]

Quite alot of scientists concur that it is a fraud and that the climate is changing naturally as per various cycles both 30 year, and 800 year.
Over 33,000 scientists in the USA alone are suing Al Gore for fraud.
The founder of the weather channel is also looking at suing Al Gore for fraud.

The fact remains, the UN wants your cash and AGW is merely a trojan horse for this to happen. You call us sceptics; I call us patriots. Google climategate.