Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile - Page 14

hayseed · 19-07-2021, 04:00 PM

Ford have figured out how to make EV's more palatable to the Masses...LOL

https://www.drive.com.au/news/ford-c...medium=partner

**kypez** · 19-07-2021, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayseed

Ford have figured out how to make EV's more palatable to the Masses...LOL

https://www.drive.com.au/news/ford-c...medium=partner

That is pretty funny!!

Personally, I've never liked the smell of petrol but each to their own. Hate my race car for the smell of fuel without its cats!

**FTE217** · 19-07-2021, 04:47 PM

gawd, fuel burn is beautiful aroma, especially race ones.
Vegie oil, the speedway was awesum smelling those fumes, av gas, I like it all.
The smell in a race car whilst its cooling down, to live for, love it.
Ford know what its massive USA devotees like even though pushing their quick sewing machines, smart that.

Crazy Dazz · 21-07-2021, 09:58 PM

As someone once said, the difference between a Conservative and a Socialist:

If a conservative likes Electric Cars, he buys one.

But when a Socialistic likes Electric Cars, he tries to make everyone else buy one.

I'm sick of the bigots prattling on about Lectric Cars and wHybrids, and Chinese pieces of crap. Especially the way they've been claiming for the last 40 years that "in ten years' time we'll all be drivin them."
No, we won't. End of Discussion.

If you want to buy one, go ahead and do so. That choice is one of the advantages your socialist buddies haven't stolen from us, yet. Just stop yabbering on about it, and stop trying to justify your opinion by attacking anyone who dares to disagree.

I prefer my cars with a big 6 or V8 engine, manual gearbox, and a clutch controlled by my left-foot. And I will keep driving them even if I have to manufacture my own fuel or gas.
If your electric whizzer gives you anywhere near the same joy, then Mazel Tov. We should all be so fortunate.

Chinese production values will not, overall, match their competitors, certainly not in my lifetime. But that doesn't mean YOU can't buy and enjoy one, much as my friend with her MG. I'll never buy a Chinese car, because that's MY ****ing choice, not yours.

Death will come to us all, and I can imagine that a time will come when I'll be too old for crawling under cars, and too damn ornery to deal with muppets. At time I may well succumb, and buy a Toyota. I can only hope that, come that day, Tojo is still making some form of ICE.

**kypez** · 21-07-2021, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

As someone once said, the difference between a Conservative and a Socialist:

If a conservative likes Electric Cars, he buys one.

But when a Socialistic likes Electric Cars, he tries to make everyone else buy one.

I'm sick of the bigots prattling on about Lectric Cars and wHybrids, and Chinese pieces of crap. Especially the way they've been claiming for the last 40 years that "in ten years' time we'll all be drivin them."
No, we won't. End of Discussion.

If you want to buy one, go ahead and do so. That choice is one of the advantages your socialist buddies haven't stolen from us, yet. Just stop yabbering on about it, and stop trying to justify your opinion by attacking anyone who dares to disagree.

I prefer my cars with a big 6 or V8 engine, manual gearbox, and a clutch controlled by my left-foot. And I will keep driving them even if I have to manufacture my own fuel or gas.
If your electric whizzer gives you anywhere near the same joy, then Mazel Tov. We should all be so fortunate.

Chinese production values will not, overall, match their competitors, certainly not in my lifetime. But that doesn't mean YOU can't buy and enjoy one, much as my friend with her MG. I'll never buy a Chinese car, because that's MY ****ing choice, not yours.

Death will come to us all, and I can imagine that a time will come when I'll be too old for crawling under cars, and too damn ornery to deal with muppets. At time I may well succumb, and buy a Toyota. I can only hope that, come that day, Tojo is still making some form of ICE.

Think the terms you've used aren't correct there.

Evangelist is probably what you're after. Socialist (or Socialistic as you said) would never want anyone to buy anything! They want you taking a bus, not buying cars! And a conservative wouldn't buy an EV in the first place.

I agree, I'll be enjoying my V8 manuals for years to come. But I'd not cut my nose to spite my face and buy a Toyota just cause its an ICE.

But, that's the beauty of choice. We get to enjoy it for the short time that its relevant.

slowsnake · 24-08-2021, 10:17 PM

I read this in my morning paper, here in Perth, I thought it was funny and very good at the same time!
It was in the "Letters to the Editor" part.
Will have to type it in.

SILENT MENACE

The scourge of electric cars was evident when I was about to cross the street in a popular south-West town last weekend.
Taking off like a rocket out of a sidewall parking bay, one of these soundless contraptions scared the behests out of me.
No doubt the G-force acceleration gave the driver a thrill, but his awareness was questionable.
To warn pedestrians, it should be mandated that electric vehicles have a forward facing bullhorn projecting a Back to the Future noise, like a flattened cigarette packet rattling across the spokes of a push bike wheel.
Until then, be aware of these Silent Marauders!

Sid B, City Beach.

Cheers Billy

**kypez** · 24-08-2021, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowsnake

I read this in my morning paper, here in Perth, I thought it was funny and very good at the same time!

It was in the "Letters to the Editor" part.

Will have to type it in.

SILENT MENACE

The scourge of electric cars was evident when I was about to cross the street in a popular south-West town last weekend.

Taking off like a rocket out of a sidewall parking bay, one of these soundless contraptions scared the behests out of me.

No doubt the G-force acceleration gave the driver a thrill, but his awareness was questionable.

To warn pedestrians, it should be mandated that electric vehicles have a forward facing bullhorn projecting a Back to the Future noise, like a flattened cigarette packet rattling across the spokes of a push bike wheel.

Until then, be aware of these Silent Marauders!

Sid B, City Beach.

Cheers Billy

Most countries require some some at low speeds from EVs. Unfortunately, we don't have that requirement here and as such, cars that would get it overseas have that option removed locally.

You can even have a nice lumpy V8 sound on the overseas models if you like.

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hayseed · 09-09-2021, 12:10 AM

LOL..

https://www.drive.com.au/news/us-pic...medium=partner

**kypez** · 09-09-2021, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayseed

LOL..

https://www.drive.com.au/news/us-pic...medium=partner

Doesn't include Tesla. End of discussion. The article is just click bait.

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Wretched · 09-09-2021, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

Doesn't include Tesla. End of discussion. The article is just click bait.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

Not forgetting the pickups are likely a dodgy tax writeoff for tradies.

**kypez** · 09-09-2021, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretched

Not forgetting the pickups are likely a dodgy tax writeoff for tradies.

For kicks, I looked at how much it would cost to have a Novated Lease on a Tesla Model 3 Performance ($112 k at the time) and a RAM 1500 ($120 k at the time). Due to the way tax is structured and because there is no servicing, fuel, etc, the RAM was a cheaper per month albeit only a a little cheaper! That was ridiculous! The Tax system needs an overhaul if a RAM 1500 V8 is cheaper on a operating lease than a EV!

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**FTE217** · 09-09-2021, 11:11 AM

ridiculous no, just that ICE still out numbers EV's by a country mile, no thousands and thousands of miles.
Until EV's especially Tesla get more affordable for the avgerage jo/joe (and wake up to be incl in monthly numbers for all to see but more for the record) and infrastructure supporting it better then and only then would the tax adjustments come to be.
Right now they are looked upon as premium despite the cheaper few offerings.

**Polyal** · 09-09-2021, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretched

Not forgetting the pickups are likely a dodgy tax writeoff for tradies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

For kicks, I looked at how much it would cost to have a Novated Lease on a Tesla Model 3 Performance ($112 k at the time) and a RAM 1500 ($120 k at the time). Due to the way tax is structured and because there is no servicing, fuel, etc, the RAM was a cheaper per month albeit only a a little cheaper! That was ridiculous! The Tax system needs an overhaul if a RAM 1500 V8 is cheaper on a operating lease than a EV!

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100%...I dont even know why that incentive is there?

Bossxr8 · 09-09-2021, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

100%...I dont even know why that incentive is there?

Cybertruck should be entitled to it as well. When it turns up sometime in 2027.

hayseed · 09-09-2021, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

Doesn't include Tesla. End of discussion. The article is just click bait.

Did you read this Bit..

Quote:

The electric car sales figure does not include Tesla as the US specialist does not supply data. However according to the industry scoreboard, US pick-ups still outsell electric cars in Australia, despite EVs also enjoying rapid growth.

**kypez** · 09-09-2021, 01:36 PM

Did you read this part

"According to official data compiled by the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries, there have been*3800 US pick-ups"

Tesla has sold way more than that! They are looking at 15,000-20,000 by year end. They've sold more than 8000 YTD. September will be interesting with the NSW rebates kicking in.

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Ben73 · 09-09-2021, 02:00 PM

No point comparing electric cars to Rams. It's an apples and oranges comparison.
If you want to compare electric vehicles compare them to ICE cars in the same category.

hayseed · 09-09-2021, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

Tesla has sold way more than that! They are looking at 15,000-20,000 by year end. They've sold more than 8000 YTD. September will be interesting with the NSW rebates kicking in.

You know this How..??

Just curious..

**kypez** · 09-09-2021, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hayseed

You know this How..??

Just curious..

They were at roughly 6300 as of End of June. They had a few ship loads arrive in July which was set to be their highest number ever but there were delays that spilt into August. Unfortunately, due to the promised rebates, a lot of August sales were pushed into September. Looks to be a big September ahead of them. Follow VedaPrime on twitter and they give you a good idea of what they're bringing in.

https://thedriven.io/2021/06/25/tesl...each-new-high/

**Polyal** · 09-09-2021, 03:17 PM

I see the Telsa won "electric car of 2021" on carsales.com.au..good on them, its going to be great watching progress over the next couple of years.

Also this thread was meant to be more about what ICE engines are going to be "end of the line" etc, seeing if manufacturers will go out on a limp and send off or just slowly slide away into the sunset.

**kypez** · 09-09-2021, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Also this thread was meant to be more about what ICE engines are going to be "end of the line" etc, seeing if manufacturers will go out on a limp and send off or just slowly slide away into the sunset.

Yep! Which is why I got myself a nice NA V8 Manual to serve me for years to come! The Mach 1 is a great example of what a nice ICE can be. I really am liking this car the more I drive it and I'm so glad I got it!

The more I learn about the 400z the more underwhelmed I am about it. Proof of the pudding, as they say, will be when I get to test drive one. But the projected Price Point is very good given the price the Supra came in at.

bungarra · 09-09-2021, 04:00 PM

People are working on hydrogen conversions for ICE's constantly. There is only so much lithium and cobalt in the world and with governments pushing for battery systems for grid back up/storage and fluctuation smoothing, demand will go to the highest bidder. Watch a Tesla when one burns, lithium batteries explode great.

Tesla Fire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2adVW6bTkQ

One Commodore conversion
https://www.clean-air.org/commodore.html

A paper from 2010 on hydrogen conversions

https://www.asee.org/public/conferen.../3541/download

**FTE217** · 09-09-2021, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

I see the Telsa won "electric car of 2021" on carsales.com.au..good on them, its going to be great watching progress over the next couple of years.

Also this thread was meant to be more about what ICE engines are going to be "end of the line" etc, seeing if manufacturers will go out on a limp and send off or just slowly slide away into the sunset.

well it will be a while the ICE melts into the sunset but to help present some "facts" instead of pie in the sky imports to sales figures being the shonk doesn't adhere to like every other importer in the land for vfacts, he special/unique some would say.
My Industry and its major providers have software so as customers can see what aftermarket parts by brands part number go with this model goes with that model.
It can search via chassis #/number plate/make/model/year OR even just do a blanket search by Brand - importantly a supplier where I'm involved can see is it worth releasing a NPI/new part number by checking the VIO's.
VIO's is Vehicle's In Operation ie how many are registered on the road

A blanket Tesla search - covers all models currently on the road.....

Australia 10,160 cable cars or glorified everready's.
NZ 1,958

By the way....
There were 20.1 million registered motor vehicles as at 31 January 2021.
The national fleet increased by 1.7% from 2020 to 2021.
Toyota topped the list of passenger vehicles for the 16th consecutive year with 3.0 million registrations.
Diesel vehicles increased to 26.4% of the national fleet, up from 20.9% in 2016

I mean really, 2/5ths of f all in the big picture.

Pleasure Thankyou very much lets move on about nice ICE baby.

**kypez** · 09-09-2021, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTE217

well it will be a while the ICE melts into the sunset but to help present some "facts" instead of pie in the sky imports to sales figures being the shonk doesn't adhere to like every other importer in the land for vfacts, he special/unique some would say.
My Industry and its major providers have software so as customers can see what aftermarket parts by brands part number go with this model goes with that model.
It can search via chassis #/number plate/make/model/year OR even just do a blanket search by Brand - importantly a supplier where I'm involved can see is it worth releasing a NPI/new part number by checking the VIO's.
VIO's is Vehicle's In Operation ie how many are registered on the road

A blanket Tesla search - covers all models currently on the road.....

Australia 10,160 cable cars or glorified everready's.
NZ 1,958

By the way....
There were 20.1 million registered motor vehicles as at 31 January 2021.
The national fleet increased by 1.7% from 2020 to 2021.
Toyota topped the list of passenger vehicles for the 16th consecutive year with 3.0 million registrations.
Diesel vehicles increased to 26.4% of the national fleet, up from 20.9% in 2016

I mean really, 2/5ths of f all in the big picture.

Pleasure Thankyou very much lets move on about nice ICE baby.

Your numbers are so off its not funny but please, continue with your "facts".

The only thing accurate is that its still a tiny market.

Wretched · 09-09-2021, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

The only thing accurate is that its still a tiny market.

This!!

Just wait until the market expands. Seeing what is being sold overseas compared to here, no wonder have little uptake.
From 2025 onwards, when manufacturers start scaling back production of ICE cars we'll start to notice. 2030 is when major countries have bans of ICE cars. Cannot see any manufacturer building a mass produced car just for Australia.

**FTE217** · 09-09-2021, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kypez

Your numbers are so off its not funny but please, continue with your "facts".

The only thing accurate is that its still a tiny market.

Oh granted we know those facts about small And no doubt it will grow.
We all know this without facts from sources in industry or press But where are your actual numbers sold or registered in this case ?
You have your friendly Tesla contact over in Alexandria or otherwise.
Bring us some numbers instead of nothing.
Just asking seeing you say the numbers I e sourced is wrong - I’d like to know so we all know.
Otherwise you have no base to stand on but checking up imports but that isn’t like having actual sales or regos.
If I’m wrong I accept but at least I found something whereas you ?

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**kypez** · 09-09-2021, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTE217

Oh granted we know those facts about small And no doubt it will grow.
We all know this without facts from sources in industry or press But where are your actual numbers sold or registered in this case ?
You have your friendly Tesla contact over in Alexandria or otherwise.
Bring us some numbers instead of nothing.
Just asking seeing you say the numbers I e sourced is wrong - I’d like to know so we all know.
Otherwise you have no base to stand on but checking up imports but that isn’t like having actual sales or regos.
If I’m wrong I accept but at least I found something whereas you ?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sigh. This is where I'll stop responding to you given it's clear you're biased beyond comprehension. As with others in these forums, I cannot share sources and have shared a lot, even Ford related, that I've been privy to in the past and all were accurate and even got in a little trouble with Ford for sharing too much.

Anyway, the source is the source. I have no vested interest in Tesla doing well or not. I have no shares in them and get no bonus if people buy them or not.

Have fun on the Forum Maurice.

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Crazy Dazz · 09-09-2021, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretched

From 2025 onwards, when manufacturers start scaling back production of ICE cars we'll start to notice. 2030 is when major countries have bans of ICE cars. Cannot see any manufacturer building a mass produced car just for Australia.

Yet another person with a very skewed opinion of what constitutes "the world"

I can assure you of two things:

Firstly, the vast majority of the actual world has no intention of, nor interest in, banning ICE vehicles.

Secondly, not only will car makers happily sell whatever people want to buy, but they prefer selling old tech if they can.

You need to remember that even governments trying to appease the tree-huggers, will happily bank the taxes from car-companies exporting their gas-guzzlers.

Many people continue to make the mistake of thinking that political trends continue infinitely in a linear progression. They don't.
If you go back to the Australian Politics of the early 70's, then by now we should be living in a state-owned Socialist Workers Utopia.
No government actually gives two ****s about the environment. They will (and have) adopt any policy, nomatter how stupid or ludicrous, that wins them more votes than it loses.

You also have to remember that most people don't give a **** about the environment, and even if they did, they have no ****ing idea what actually effects the environment and how. Rather they feel guilty about their vacuous consumer lifestyles, and want to make themselves feel better by putting their crap in the correctly coloured bin, and believing they have saved the planet. Those people will support all manner of stupid government initiatives, right up to the point that it truly begins to effect them.
Have you ever noticed that the highest concentration of "Greens" voters live in central concrete high-rises in capitol cities. ie they wouldn't recognise the "environment" if it bit them on the ****. Those who actually love the environment, and try to immerse themselves in it, don't live in the inner-city and don't vote Green

Wretched · 09-09-2021, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Yet another person with a very skewed opinion of what constitutes "the world"

I can assure you of two things:

Firstly, the vast majority of the actual world has no intention of, nor interest in, banning ICE vehicles.

Secondly, not only will car makers happily sell whatever people want to buy, but they prefer selling old tech if they can.

You need to remember that even governments trying to appease the tree-huggers, will happily bank the taxes from car-companies exporting their gas-guzzlers.

Many people continue to make the mistake of thinking that political trends continue infinitely in a linear progression. They don't.
If you go back to the Australian Politics of the early 70's, then by now we should be living in a state-owned Socialist Workers Utopia.
No government actually gives two ****s about the environment. They will (and have) adopt any policy, nomatter how stupid or ludicrous, that wins them more votes than it loses.

You also have to remember that most people don't give a **** about the environment, and even if they did, they have no ****ing idea what actually effects the environment and how. Rather they feel guilty about their vacuous consumer lifestyles, and want to make themselves feel better by putting their crap in the correctly coloured bin, and believing they have saved the planet. Those people will support all manner of stupid government initiatives, right up to the point that it truly begins to effect them.
Have you ever noticed that the highest concentration of "Greens" voters live in central concrete high-rises in capitol cities. ie they wouldn't recognise the "environment" if it bit them on the ****. Those who actually love the environment, and try to immerse themselves in it, don't live in the inner-city and don't vote Green

That's a lot of words for someone who has no clue about the world and seems to suffer from head-up-butt syndrome. Walk out of your cave and understand the real world and where they are heading.

I'll give you a few hints - look at which countries are banning fossil fuel cars, the sale of new ones, and in major cities the driving of them.
Next, have a look at Euro7 emissions and what that entails.
Lastly, have a read around which manufacturers are ceasing development of new ICE.

I think that will give you enough hints of the direction THE WORLD is going, not your world that is, the world the rest of us live in, the real one.

https://www.driving.co.uk/car-clinic...ngs-need-know/
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/...line-cars.html

ozrunner · 09-09-2021, 09:38 PM

"I think that will give you enough hints of the direction THE WORLD is going, not your world that is, the world the rest of us live in, the real one."

Mate, FFS I'll give you a hint about the REAL world we live in.

It's called Australia and it's not a fart sized tin pot European country that you could drive across in an hour. Any comparison or quotations of European or such like proposals is totally irrelevant to Australia.

Most also have massive populations compared to our measly 25m so when you're crammed in a fart box country EV's use probably can make some sense, especially when most also have nuclear power for easy charging. Piddly sized France apparently has over 100 whereas Australia has zero and would have to rely on useless windmills or eveready's.

By all means if it floats you boat talking about the "other" worlds use of EV's go ahead but anyone who thinks Australia is going to go anywhere near being mostly EV in the foreseeable future is smoking some good sh*t and need to face Australia's reality.