Covid 19 -

[Jack91]

I fully support and appreciate the lock out. Good on em.
Id be even happier if China was added to the no entry list aswell. Not for covid reasons but if they have to say that to get it done then thats cool.

[nstg8a]

Every one seems to think quarantine centres are the great answer but you still going to have the same problems.

You still need to staff them, you still need to resource them.
You still need to get people coming home from the airport to the quarantine centre.
The staff still need to go home every night.
You’re still going to have the potential for people just arriving being next to people at the end of their stay.
Every step, every person along the way is a potential spreader.

The only difference will be hotels will start to fold.

The hotels have worked amazingly well (when you consider the numbers involved) and in reality won’t be beaten for cost or practicality.

Has their been mistakes made? Of course, when you have humans you have human error. Lessons need to be learnt, not used as excuses to spend many more billions on what should be a relatively short lived need.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Every one seems to think quarantine centres are the great answer but you still going to have the same problems.

You still need to staff them, you still need to resource them.
You still need to get people coming home from the airport to the quarantine centre.
The staff still need to go home every night.
You’re still going to have the potential for people just arriving being next to people at the end of their stay.
Every step, every person along the way is a potential spreader.

The only difference will be hotels will start to fold.

The hotels have worked amazingly well (when you consider the numbers involved) and in reality won’t be beaten for cost or practicality.

Has their been mistakes made? Of course, when you have humans you have human error. Lessons need to be learnt, not used as excuses to spend many more billions on what should be a relatively short lived need.

Interesting comment but if you look Howard springs quarantine centre it works quite well, no outbreaks among the staff as I'm aware of. I think more of these type of facilities in each state is the answer, in the old colonial days isolated quarantine facilities worked so why not these days with modern tech thrown in.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-...g-pad/13055008

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Officemanager

Interesting comment but if you look Howard springs quarantine centre it works quite well, no outbreaks among the staff as I'm aware of. I think more of these type of facilities in each state is the answer, in the old colonial days isolated quarantine facilities worked so why not these days with modern tech thrown in.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-...g-pad/13055008

Yes it was a good idea back then, NSW had a great quarantine facility up on North Head until it was decided it would better serve as the Big Brother household.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Officemanager

Interesting comment but if you look Howard springs quarantine centre it works quite well, no outbreaks among the staff as I'm aware of. I think more of these type of facilities in each state is the answer, .........

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-...tton/100106962

[Citroënbender]

Is Victoria still enforcing the permit system at all? Or has it faded away for the time being?

[Gothefalcon]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Is Victoria still enforcing the permit system at all? Or has it faded away for the time being?

I just travelled from Sadelaide to Geelong for the Geelong All Ford Day... We had to complete an Vic on-line border pass request to get into Vic... and another SA on-line border pass request, to get back home.
I believe (but don't quote me) that all States except NSW have this arrangement !?? (Happy to be corrected)

Now... no one pulled me over to check I had it... but I believe there may be fines involved, should you be asked and you haven't got one !??

D

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Is Victoria still enforcing the permit system at all? Or has it faded away for the time being?

They absolutely use it to trace people returning from interstate, my text message after returning from qld came from it. As for enforcing, 2 out of my last 5 flights had people at the gate checking

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Is Victoria still enforcing the permit system at all? Or has it faded away for the time being?

Apparently you do.

https://www.service.vic.gov.au/servi...er-permit/home

We just did a return trip and I completely forgot until I read this post. No matter, as there was no-one checking at Tullamarine.

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by Officemanager

Interesting comment but if you look Howard springs quarantine centre it works quite well, no outbreaks among the staff as I'm aware of. I think more of these type of facilities in each state is the answer, in the old colonial days isolated quarantine facilities worked so why not these days with modern tech thrown in.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-...g-pad/13055008

Yes, Howard springs works, but where is the money coming from to build 5/10/15/50 more Howard springs?

And what’s happens when the virus runs it course?

It’s a huge outlay to build these centres for what should really be a short term requirement.

Imo they are Better off putting those resources into getting the vaccination program back on track. Get the numbers of people vaccinated up and the quarantine centres become largely redundant.

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Yes, Howard springs works, but where is the money coming from to build 5/10/15/50 more Howard springs?

And what’s happens when the virus runs it course?

It’s a huge outlay to build these centres for what should really be a short term requirement.

This was what I referred to; don’t build a squillion dongas, but work out a modular design range that can be re-sold to the community as permanent homes, that meet local council standards for new houses.

[Gothefalcon]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Yes, Howard springs works, but where is the money coming from to build 5/10/15/50 more Howard springs?
And what’s happens when the virus runs it course?
It’s a huge outlay to build these centres for what should really be a short term requirement.
Imo they are Better off putting those resources into getting the vaccination program back on track. Get the numbers of people vaccinated up and the quarantine centres become largely redundant.

IMPO, the cost is relative chump-change, compared to the costs of border closures (both State and international) and what cost do you put on human life !??
It's less of a cost outlay... and more an investment into our futures.

As the scientific and medical experts are saying, no Country is safe until all Countries are safe. This will be with us for years, until things like global travel stop being a potential problem.
As the vaccine's effectiveness may only last 12 months (ish).. the global community is probably going to have to be vaccinated a few times before this virus is under effective global control !??
If a new strain manages to evade the effectiveness of the current vaccines, then we'll be playing catch up all over again.

Reportedly... around 36,000 Australian Citizens have been registered to come home for the last year (so far). Despite the 3,000-6000 people (per week) gong through medi-hotels already... this 36,000 registered number hasn't changed. ie: more Aussies are signing up to come home each week.

Agreed though... the vaccine roll out needs to be dealt with more efficiently... but not instead... as well.

D

[T3rminator]

Just an observation, and I haven't gone back through old posts to confirm, but it seems that those who were generally supportive of the lock downs last year are now questioning the severity of the penalties for breaking the international travel ban on citizens. Vice versa, those who were generally critical of the lock downs are now supportive of the penalties applied for international travel. Not saying who is wrong or right.

Also here is an interesting article from BBC. The news of potential jail terms for returning citizens is getting some international attention. Interpret it anyway you like, positive or negative.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-56953052

"So in an emergency situation, the government can make something a criminal offence overnight. At the height of the pandemic last year, the government beefed up its Biosecurity Act to give the health minister near unconditional powers bypassing parliament."

There was a lot of media and public attention put towards the State Of Emergency that Victoria tried to extend last year through parliament, it seems this one snuck through without a mention.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by Gothefalcon

IMPO, the cost is relative chump-change, compared to the costs of border closures (both State and international) and what cost do you put on human life !??
It's less of a cost outlay... and more an investment into our futures.

As the scientific and medical experts are saying, no Country is safe until all Countries are safe. This will be with us for years, until things like global travel stop being a potential problem.
As the vaccine's effectiveness may only last 12 months (ish).. the global community is probably going to have to be vaccinated a few times before this virus is under effective global control !??
If a new strain manages to evade the effectiveness of the current vaccines, then we'll be playing catch up all over again.

Reportedly... around 36,000 Australian Citizens have been registered to come home for the last year (so far). Despite the 3,000-6000 people (per week) gong through medi-hotels already... this 36,000 registered number hasn't changed. ie: more Aussies are signing up to come home each week.

Agreed though... the vaccine roll out needs to be dealt with more efficiently... but not instead... as well.

D

I wonder the “true” numbers of Aus citizens presently “stranded” out of the country, but NOT registered?
In the event of an emergency (wife’s elderly mum ain’t the best), we have virtually no hope of a return anytime soon.
And if we did happen to snag one of the rare, exorbitantly priced seats out of the US, it is then illegal and virtually impossible for us to return here to our home!
When we first moved here, airfares could be had for Au$1700 return... The world was such a small place!
Those days are now gone forever, I suggest?

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Yes, Howard springs works, but where is the money coming from to build 5/10/15/50 more Howard springs?

And what’s happens when the virus runs it course?

It’s a huge outlay to build these centres for what should really be a short term requirement.

Imo they are Better off putting those resources into getting the vaccination program back on track. Get the numbers of people vaccinated up and the quarantine centres become largely redundant.

The Federal and State governments have already wasted heaps of money in hotel quarantine and to be honest do you or anyone else think this virus is going to go away; most likely there will be more so might as well future proof ourselves for the inevitable.

Cheers

[Gothefalcon]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Every one seems to think quarantine centres are the great answer but you still going to have the same problems.
You still need to staff them, you still need to resource them.
You still need to get people coming home from the airport to the quarantine centre.
The staff still need to go home every night.
You’re still going to have the potential for people just arriving being next to people at the end of their stay.
Every step, every person along the way is a potential spreader.
The only difference will be hotels will start to fold.
The hotels have worked amazingly well (when you consider the numbers involved) and in reality won’t be beaten for cost or practicality.
Has their been mistakes made? Of course, when you have humans you have human error. Lessons need to be learnt, not used as excuses to spend many more billions on what should be a relatively short lived need.

You are correct... Medi-hotels have done an amazing job, overall.
However... not many hotels are suitable to be utilised this way... in fact, not many in each State are ! The main problems with most of the hotels is the design of the A/C systems, which could actually spread the virus from room to room... the lack of openable windows/balconies/etc so the occupants can get outside air, whilst remaining quarantined... and the limited numbers they can turn over per week.

Howard Springs has individual A/C units per room... people can get outside the rooms, and it's capable of a much, much higher turn-over rate (even more when it's expanded soon)
As pointed out before... to date there have been no breaches from this facility.

The point here is, had the Federal Govt. started constructing quarantine stations in each State mid last year... then thousands more Australian Citizens would have been able to have been processed by now... and the Country would be better placed to deal with the more contagious strains of the virus, as well.

D

[russellw]

Data valid as at 00:00 GMT May 1st, 2021.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting.

27 new cases for Australia and no deaths so the CMR is 3.056%.

3 new cases and 0 deaths for NZ so CMR is 0.995% and active cases 23.

The UK had a lower 1,907 cases yesterday and 7 deaths.

Just under 60k new cases in the USA yesterday and 772 deaths sees CMR at 1.782%. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points: (weekend reporting)
Global cases pass 152M, the last 1M in 2 days;
Global deaths pass 3.2M, the last 50k in 3 days;
Asia passes 40M cases;
South America passes 25M cases;

Only -

Sri Lanka (1,716)
... recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

Namibia moves above the 90th percentile for their 10 day average and no countries drop below.

India managed to not set a new daily record but the 392,562 cases was still the 2nd highest recorded and their 10-day average is now above 360k / cases per day.

We can see how weather impacts the case numbers which we knew from last year. Europe had a shocking November to January period with daily case numbers averaging almost 220k/day (currently 138k/day) and although that has largely improved there are still some countries above their 90th percentile like France (just), Croatia, Netherlands, Ukraine, Latvia, Germany and Greece.

It's now Asia that is starting to record scary case numbers and even though a lot of that is due to the crisis in India, more than half of the 33 countries I watch closely are above their 90th percentile with several more about to cross that line.

[Charliewool]

I also cynically wonder just how much of the feds hardline stance with huge fines and possible gaol time is politically motivated/vote grabbing?
I say this after listening to 3AW talkback yesterday...
Overwhelmingly, callers were of the opinion to slam shut Australian borders and not allow ANYONE back in... Gaol them, lock em up at Christmas Island...
Reeks of the typical “Feck you Jack, I’m ok” attitude!
These same hypocrites would be the first protesting and complaining to Aussie Government if their sons/daughters/mums/dads were stranded and unable to get back!

[Citroënbender]

One of the ironies in this, being that a poll by the Lowy Institute confirms your observed 3AW attitude.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

I also cynically wonder just how much of the feds hardline stance with huge fines and possible gaol time is politically motivated/vote grabbing?
I say this after listening to 3AW talkback yesterday...
Overwhelmingly, callers were of the opinion to slam shut Australian borders and not allow ANYONE back in... Gaol them, lock em up at Christmas Island...
Reeks of the typical “Feck you Jack, I’m ok” attitude!
These same hypocrites would be the first protesting and complaining to Aussie Government if their sons/daughters/mums/dads were stranded and unable to get back!

Ummm, everything all pollies do is motivated by vote grabbing, on both sides.

I am still astounded that people are upset about the temporary .....temporary closing of returnees from India. If you take New Zealand out, India is the most common country to return from. (670 in Feb versus 600 for UK and 490 from US)

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/in...sident-returns

India expats would more likely than not have family to reside with, (i have literally hundreds of contractors at work that regularly return to the sub continent for family reasons every year) versus more self sustained people who have work contracts in the UK and USA, this plus I am way more comfortable that there was a lot more control with those two countries returnees at their peak issues than what is currently happening in India.

It should be reopened as soon as we know the full scope of what is happening and can decide if that is manageable for our quarantine system, anything else would be irresponsible.

[russellw]

Data valid as at 00:00 GMT May 2nd, 2021.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting.

49 new cases for Australia and no deaths so the CMR is 3.051% but 35 of those cases are an adjustment to previous data.

5 new cases and 0 deaths for NZ so CMR is 0.993% and active cases 24.

The UK had a lower 1,671 cases yesterday and 14 deaths.

Just under 46k new cases in the USA yesterday and 707 deaths sees CMR at 1.782%. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points: (weekend reporting)
Global cases pass 153M, the last 1M in 2 days;

Maldives (508);
Sri Lanka (1,891); and
Nepal (7,137) - the previous high on 21/10/20

... recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

No countries move above the 90th percentile for their 10 day average and no countries drop below.

[zilo]

I don't mind making exceptions on compassionate grounds to returning travellers.

But cricketers touring to make a few bucks?

Not on your bloody life....let 'em sit it out there.

[Yellow_Festiva]

NZ will soon have a 2 way bubble with some of the surrounding Pacific Islands.

I know we had some discussion about the same but was anything made official like NZ?

Any country NZ enters into agreement with must automatically be included in our travel agreements by default seeing as both populations will mix in NZ anyway.

Same with us and Singapore - apparently the next bubble. However Singapore is in talks with Hong Kong to make their own bubble, which means as soon as that happens with Singapore, and we get the bubble underway with Singapore then we should also be allowed to go to Hong Kong directly.

I'm hoping that more travel agreements come into place soon... I'm itching to spend some time back in Asia.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

NZ will soon have a 2 way bubble with some of the surrounding Pacific Islands.

I know we had some discussion about the same but was anything made official like NZ?

Any country NZ enters into agreement with must automatically be included in our travel agreements by default seeing as both populations will mix in NZ anyway.

Same with us and Singapore - apparently the next bubble. However Singapore is in talks with Hong Kong to make their own bubble, which means as soon as that happens with Singapore, and we get the bubble underway with Singapore then we should also be allowed to go to Hong Kong directly.

I'm hoping that more travel agreements come into place soon... I'm itching to spend some time back in Asia.

Think you might be disappointed with people trying to get back in Australia at the moment through other destinations will definitely slow down opening up other bubble arrangements which can be exploited.

[T3rminator]

Well this is different....could have saved some time by just looking at whats happening in other parts of the world.

England holds experimental music festival to test whether such events spread COVID-19

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-...read/100111524

"Around 5,000 people ditched face coverings and social distancing rules in the name of science and music.

They attended the outdoor event having tested negative for COVID-19, and promised to get themselves tested again five days after the festival.

Their data will be used by the government's Events Research Programme to help understand the effect of crowds on the spread of the virus."

[russellw]

Data valid as at 00:00 GMT May 3rd, 2021.

Note: As not all Australian States report at the same time, the data below is based on the previous full day reporting.

12 new cases for Australia and no deaths so the CMR is 3.050%.

2 new cases and 0 deaths for NZ so CMR is 0.992% and active cases 25.

The UK had a lower 1,649 cases yesterday and only 1 death.

Just under 41k new cases in the USA yesterday and 321 deaths sees CMR at 1.781%. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
Global cases pass 154M, the last 1M in 2 days;
India passes 20M cases;

Maldives (585);
Sri Lanka (1,923); and
Nepal (7,388)

... recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

No countries move above the 90th percentile for their 10 day average while France and Bangladesh drop below.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by russellw

The UK had a lower 1,649 cases yesterday and only 1 death.

Wow....! They just eased some restrictions back on 12 April, like allowing non essential retail to open. Now will be about the end of that incubation period, if numbers keep dropping and no more deaths, that is a big success for the vaccination roll out.

This needs to be publicised more to get immunisation rates up.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Wow....! They just eased some restrictions back on 12 April, like allowing non essential retail to open. Now will be about the end of that incubation period, if numbers keep dropping and no more deaths, that is a big success for the vaccination roll out.

This needs to be publicised more to get immunisation rates up.

Perhaps we will never know, but imagine if there was under reporting or not as many tests being done, old BJ isnt that dissimilar to Trump.

It all seems a bit too good to be true.

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Perhaps we will never know, but imagine if there was under reporting or not as many tests being done, old BJ isnt that dissimilar to Trump.

It all seems a bit too good to be true.

Whilst both botched the initial response to the outbreak, they are really not that much alike. Don't let recent photo ops fool you.

From 2015:


Disclaimer: I'm a bit of a bojo fan so call me bias. Was a fantastic major for London when I was living there.

UK in the beginning were accused of under counting, then they came up with that ridiculous generic method and was accused of over counting, not sure how they are doing it now. The trend is really positive. There are enough critics in the media to keep them honest.

[Tickford.]

Michael Slater calls India travel ban a 'disgrace', as Australians face jail time for returning home

Former Australian cricketer Michael Slater has accused Prime Minister Scott Morrison of having blood on his hands, as COVID-19 cases surge in India.

In a post on Twitter, Slater, who was in India as a broadcaster for the Indian Premier League (IPL), said the federal government was neglecting Australians who cannot return home because of the current travel ban.

If our Government cared for the safety of Aussies they would allow us to get home. It's a disgrace!! Blood on your hands PM. How dare you treat us like this. How about you sort out quarantine system. I had government permission to work on the IPL but I now have government neglect.

This is what I do for a living and I have not made a penny having left early. So please stop the abuse and think of the thousands dying in India each day. It's called empathy. If only our government had some.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-...ison/100113674


It's a bloody disgrace alright! Mr 'what have I missed' almost f'd up the Covid-19 pandemic within Australia, f'd up the quarantine arrangements for returning Australian's, f'd up the vaccination roll out, and now wants to put Australians in jail for trying to come home!?? He's on a roll!