SA Government to introduce more point-to-point speed cameras

[Brazen]

More cameras to be introduced. Shocked about the 110kmh Northen Expressway getting it, I worked on it and it had a design speed of 160kmh.

I wonder if this will result in more fatalities, like when they reduced limits from 110 to 100 on some rural roads and fatal crashes increased.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/s...-1226675615361

MORE than 2400 motorists have been caught speeding on Port Wakefield road in the past 12 months and that figure is expected to spike when new point-to-point cameras start operating.

The devices, also known as average speed cameras, are expected to be operational by the end of the year on Port Wakefield Rd and the Dukes Highway.

The system involves measuring the time taken by a vehicle to travel between two camera sites.

The average speed of the vehicle is calculated by dividing the distance between the cameras by the time taken for the vehicle to travel between the sites.

If the average speed of the vehicle is in excess of the speed limit, the vehicle is recorded as having committed a speeding offence.

More: Motorists must change thinking to stop rising road toll


The cameras will also be able to detect a vehicle's actual speed at each location.

A Transport Department spokeswoman said that despite the complexity of the technology, the system left no room for error.

"The technology used to detect average speed is extremely accurate," she said.

"The distance used when calculating a vehicle's average speed across an average speed safety camera enforcement length will be the shortest practicable distance, which ensures that there is no possibility that a driver's speed can be over-estimated. A registered land surveyor has certified the travelling distance accurately."

More: Surge in cyclist death, injuries on roads

Other locations set to receive point-to-point cameras include Victor Harbor Rd, the South East Freeway, Northern Expressway and Sturt Highway.

The Transport Department says the cameras will bring immediate benefits.

"Reductions in average travel speed across the network is the most effective and swift way to reduce road trauma and would produce significant and immediate road safety benefits," the spokeswoman said.

More: Hoon drivers complaints rise

"A reduction of 5km/h in average travel speed would reduce rural casualty crashes by about 30 per cent."

[new2ford]

Welcome to Fascistan.

[mac_man_luke]

Speed cameras on some of the best and safest roads...makes sense...not!

[PepeLePew]

Mixed emotions...I travel the Northern Expressway daily and I see some right royal peckerheads running the gauntlet.

[csv8]

next thing they will have speed cameras linked to our bank accounts !!!!!

[Kevxr8Leexr6]

Got them here in Bathurst , ironic that in winter with snow and ice around , the point to point stops before the worst affected parts where motorists not familiar with conditions here tend to have accidents . whats that tell ya. pffft

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Kevxr8Leexr6

Got them here in Bathurst , ironic that in winter with snow and ice around , the point to point stops before the worst affected parts where motorists not familiar with conditions here tend to have accidents . whats that tell ya. pffft

Well if they had speed cameras in places where people were getting killed they would have to explain why the cameras did not save lives......

[mac_man_luke]

Originally Posted by PepeLePew

Mixed emotions...I travel the Northern Expressway daily and I see some right royal peckerheads running the gauntlet.

While excessive speed is not acceptable i think you would be doing pretty well to crash on the northern expressway from what the gov calls speeding e.g. 115 in a 110 (or maybe even less!)

[davenl5l]

I travel pt.wakefield road all year and hardly ever see a cop I bet they are including the section in the city to get their figures so they can justify what they are doing.mind you I do see a lot of idiots speeding but they need to invent a camera to fine all the go slow in the right hand lane drivers as well!!!! (2400 is 6.5 a day in 200 klm's of duel highway)

[EDManual]

What a pain!

[335POWER]

Simple. Don't speed and you won't get a fine

People ****** that speed and red light cameras are just revenue raising, but if you don't speed and don't go through a red light, they can't raise any revenue can they!?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Troy23

Simple. Don't speed and you won't get a fine

People ****** that speed and red light cameras are just revenue raising, but if you don't speed and don't go through a red light, they can't raise any revenue can they!?

"Don't worship in a Synagogue and you will not be murdered in a concentration camp."

Just because something is a law does not make it right......

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by flappist

"Don't worship in a Synagogue and you will not be murdered in a concentration camp."

Just because something is a law does not make it right......

Slippery Slope Fallacy of Reasoning:

In logic and critical thinking, a slippery slope is an informal fallacy. A slippery slope argument states that a relatively small first step leads to a chain of related events culminating in some significant effect, much like an object given a small push over the edge of a slope sliding all the way to the bottom. Slippery slope arguments falsely assume that one thing must lead to another. They begin by suggesting that if we do one thing then that will lead to another, and before we know it we’ll be doing something that we don’t want to do. They conclude that we therefore shouldn’t do the first thing. The problem with these arguments is that it is possible to do the first thing that they mention without going on to do the other things; restraint is possible.

Example

(1) If you buy a Green Day album, then next you’ll be buying Buzzcocks albums, and before you know it you’ll be a punk with green hair and everything.
(2) You don’t want to become a punk.
Therefore:
(3) You shouldn’t buy a Green Day album.

This argument commits the slippery slope fallacy because it is perfectly possible to buy a Green Day album without going on to become a punk; we could buy the album and then stop there. The conclusion therefore hasn’t been proven, because the argument’s first premise is false.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

Slippery Slope Fallacy of Reasoning:

In logic and critical thinking, a slippery slope is an informal fallacy. A slippery slope argument states that a relatively small first step leads to a chain of related events culminating in some significant effect, much like an object given a small push over the edge of a slope sliding all the way to the bottom. Slippery slope arguments falsely assume that one thing must lead to another. They begin by suggesting that if we do one thing then that will lead to another, and before we know it we’ll be doing something that we don’t want to do. They conclude that we therefore shouldn’t do the first thing. The problem with these arguments is that it is possible to do the first thing that they mention without going on to do the other things; restraint is possible.

Example

(1) If you buy a Green Day album, then next you’ll be buying Buzzcocks albums, and before you know it you’ll be a punk with green hair and everything.
(2) You don’t want to become a punk.
Therefore:
(3) You shouldn’t buy a Green Day album.

This argument commits the slippery slope fallacy because it is perfectly possible to buy a Green Day album without going on to become a punk; we could buy the album and then stop there. The conclusion therefore hasn’t been proven, because the argument’s first premise is false.

Yes the world is full of apologists who use that argument among others in a vain attempt to legitimise their position.

Using unjust punitive actions to extract revenue from the people historically has almost always led to violence with the apologists usually among the first ones up against the wall.......

[pmacc]

My biggest issue with these cameras is that aparently the ones on the downtrack of the Freeway between Crafers and Mt Osmond will eventually become avg speed cameras for everyone not just trucks. Putting cameras on a downhill section where there have been sweet f all crashes is pure revenue raising. All they are going to do is have averyone glued to their speedo's going into Adelaide instead of actually driving and potentially have people cooking their brakes because most people in SA cannot drive.

Strange fact is that the majority of the crashes on the down track seem to occur just after the Mt Osmond Camera.

[EDManual]

the cameras along the highway between, well I've seen some near Keith and others further towards Adelaide, are they average speed for cars as well as trucks?

They force me to go the back way ;-)

[smally289]

From the article :
"A reduction of 5km/h in average travel speed would reduce rural casualty crashes by about 30 per cent."

As opposed to actually teaching people how to drive properly in the first place! No one has ever died because they couldn't park between 2 sticks or do a hill start without rolling back a bit. It's too late to learn collision avoidance and skid control when an accident is 3 seconds away.

[SpoolMan]

Only post if you can add something constructive to the thread topic.

[PepeLePew]

Originally Posted by mac_man_luke

While excessive speed is not acceptable i think you would be doing pretty well to crash on the northern expressway from what the gov calls speeding e.g. 115 in a 110 (or maybe even less!)

Totally agree, when i say peckerheads, i mean peckerheads with a 'P' (not P PLATER JUST IN CASE SOMEONE JUMPS ON THAT, capital 'P') i.e. wreckless careless types running late for their 6:30 TV show every day

Awesome piece of road for SA, unfortunately now a lot busier than it used to be.

From the other thread on NSW it'd be a ripe candidate for a legal 130km/h cruising speed.

[mac_man_luke]

Originally Posted by PepeLePew

From the other thread on NSW it'd be a ripe candidate for a legal 130km/h cruising speed.

That would be nice

It is a good section of road and generally the right lane even stays clear for overtaking

[blueoval]

I only noticed the point to point camera on 'concrete hill' on Saturday and thought wtf?

Of course, its placed on the down hill section, not in an area where it would actually save a life.

We are just wallets on wheels to the govco. They will continue to prey on your 1 little slip up. Then when you least expect it, they will lower the limit to catch you out again, refuse to advertise changes and then blame you for not looking up the latest traffic changes on the net everyday as a warning.

Next thing you will see, is all cars to have an anti tamper log sensor built in to their ECU's to log your GPS location, speed used to see if you have infringed in the past/present and access to your bank account to extract cash to penalize you from your past misdemeanors. Don't laugh, it's heading that way and if the powers that be could do this, they would. If this happens, Im gonna just ride my bike to work. /end sarcasm

[Gothefalcon]

The main problem with "average speed" cameras... is, when they are set up on undulating roads (through hilly areas) like Adelaide's SE Freeway... your car can creep a bit when going down the hills, even if you've set the cruise control !... So if they have purely set the tollerance on "distance x time = speed" without a fair bit of "give & take" built in (as seems to be the way lately)... then many drivers who would otherwise be considered to be doing the right thing, will be pinged !
The ZF 6spd auto does a great job of trying to maintain car speed down hill, when the cruise is set... but it will flare a bit as you crest the top of the hill ! Several hills later.... and your actual average speed (between two points) is now a bit faster than any given calculation ! So it will be interesting to see how tightly they police this situation !??

On the road from Sydney to Bathurst... You might not be speeding perse'... but there would be occasions where you might want to overtake a slower vehicle (or a few) along it's length... which would increase your average speed between two points (assuming you weren't delayed for some time behind the slower vehicles)
Here, you might not be driving like a "hoon"... just be sitting on the legal speed limit... but then add in a few simple overtaking manoeuvres (not at break nack speeds) which most people would consider a "safe" thing to do... but then you get busted for "speeding" because now your average speed has increased beyond the calculated average!

There are some good and bad points to these cameras, over just the fixed variety... but only so long as the enforcement of this practice is reasonable !

D

[kaniSS]

DO they work with those Etag things?

[pmacc]

Originally Posted by Gothefalcon

The main problem with "average speed" cameras... is, when they are set up on undulating roads (through hilly areas) like Adelaide's SE Freeway... your car can creep a bit when going down the hills, even if you've set the cruise control !... So if they have purely set the tollerance on "distance x time = speed" without a fair bit of "give & take" built in (as seems to be the way lately)... then many drivers who would otherwise be considered to be doing the right thing, will be pinged !
The ZF 6spd auto does a great job of trying to maintain car speed down hill, when the cruise is set... but it will flare a bit as you crest the top of the hill ! Several hills later.... and your actual average speed (between two points) is now a bit faster than any given calculation ! So it will be interesting to see how tightly they police this situation !??

On the road from Sydney to Bathurst... You might not be speeding perse'... but there would be occasions where you might want to overtake a slower vehicle (or a few) along it's length... which would increase your average speed between two points (assuming you weren't delayed for some time behind the slower vehicles)
Here, you might not be driving like a "hoon"... just be sitting on the legal speed limit... but then add in a few simple overtaking manoeuvres (not at break nack speeds) which most people would consider a "safe" thing to do... but then you get busted for "speeding" because now your average speed has increased beyond the calculated average!

There are some good and bad points to these cameras, over just the fixed variety... but only so long as the enforcement of this practice is reasonable !

D

My money would be an enforcement over 104 km/h unless SA still believes in the 10% tolerance

all i know is if im coming down the freeway in the future im detouring via Eagle on the Hill that way i know ill be safe and ill get to enjoy the twist and turns of the old Freeway

Brazen if you see this why did they make the Northern Expressay around a design speed of 160 clicks? they planning for a potential future speed limit increase closer to that speed?

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by pmacc

Brazen if you see this why did they make the Northern Expressay around a design speed of 160 clicks? they planning for a potential future speed limit increase closer to that speed?

probably because it tempts most drivers into going faster than the advertised limit. Drive 3+km over the limit then wack you with a dirty big fine in the mail. In the mean time, you survived the speed of light increase in speed but pay for the pleasure in doing so.

[PepeLePew]

Originally Posted by kaniSS

DO they work with those Etag things?

I'm surprised they can't somehow integrate the cams with the Paywave card in your back pocket and just get it over and done with

[karj]

Originally Posted by pmacc

Brazen if you see this why did they make the Northern Expressay around a design speed of 160 clicks? they planning for a potential future speed limit increase closer to that speed?

Originally Posted by blueoval

probably because it tempts most drivers into going faster than the advertised limit. Drive 3+km over the limit then wack you with a dirty big fine in the mail. In the mean time, you survived the speed of light increase in speed but pay for the pleasure in doing so.

No, it's standard process to include safety or service factors in design calculations.

[MAD]

Just like the safety cameras installed on Eastlink during construction.
How do you get crash stats and accident history when the road isn't open?

[irish2]

Originally Posted by karj

No, it's standard process to include safety or service factors in design calculations.

Most international roads are also designed for a certain speed, just like Australia. The difference is that overseas they sign post theirs at the designed speed.

[kaniSS]

Originally Posted by PepeLePew

I'm surprised they can't somehow integrate the cams with the Paywave card in your back pocket and just get it over and done with

They probably will soon.

If it works on E-Tags just hide the tag when you go through the first set of cameras IMO.