2010 Falcon/Territory (speculation)

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Lower production then double, but they have a couple of months to plan ahead.

Lower production ?

But they build to order....

How do they then double ? Hopefully their Tier 1 supplier of F6 bits can cope...

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by jpd80

An ultra efficient version of the 4.0 I-6 that rivals the Holden 3.0 SIDI's fuel economy

It already does? (not including a laboratory, of course)

Originally Posted by Brazen

I have no idea about these product plans, but I have a feeling if they go with a 6 speeder across the range it will be the one offering, not both. I cant really see the marketing benefit of two different 6 speeds when all the consumer really notices is how many gears it has, I could be wrong but.

Really like the idea of an R-series, Ive always thought the XT name was really crappy, sounds like it should be a base model ute trim.

I can't see the FG2 "upper" models having an "inferior" box to the FG1 "upper" models.

Although, not sure how good or bad this corporate box is; it's a "carbon copy" of the ZF.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Lower production ?

But they build to order....

How do they then double ? Hopefully their Tier 1 supplier of F6 bits can cope...

I meant, while it wont be as big as when FPV are full steam but make a few more F6's. Even try stockpile them as they'll prob need to when SC coyote a success.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

They can't just increase F6 production by double, where do they get the Turbo's from ?

They are long lead items..

Who knows though, maybe they are on the phone organising freight

Maybe they get a government dispensation to keep building the V8 for a month or so like LPG?
If the numbers are low like about 300 cars, I don't think the government would really care...

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Maybe they get a government dispensation to keep building the V8 for a month or so like LPG?
If the numbers are low like about 300 cars, I don't think the government would really care...

They won't have the bits....

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by HSE2

They still don't have it right.

Will they ever? For heavens sake, they make things up as they go along.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by HSE2

In fairness, on the V8 front FPV have never said when their product will be ready to go. Everyone just assumed that it would be the 1st of July. We had a wait for the auto Boss as well.

Some people didn’t or don’t believe there is a SC engine at all so this news should be a net gain for them.

Went over to LS1 to check out their thoughts a couple of nights ago about the Coyote in the Mustang. Quite a few were in denial that Ford would fit a S/C Coyote to any Falcon

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by phillyc

Went over to LS1 to check out their thoughts a couple of nights ago about the Coyote in the Mustang. Quite a few were in denial that Ford would fit a S/C Coyote to any Falcon

That's weird. I thought the trolls on here would have had the courtesy to go back and give them the whole rundown on what's happening.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

They won't have the bits....

They may not have the orders either if everyone is waiting for the 5.0...

This is a bit like the gap between Windsor and Clevelend, we need a 250 2V....

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

That's weird. I thought the trolls on here would have had the courtesy to go back and give them the whole rundown on what's happening.

What happens when rats scurry back to the nest with poison..??

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Sale on F6's?

Why do you think FPV are so tight lipped about the S/C Coyote GT?
Collateral damage to their own range while they have stock to shift....

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Why do you think FPV are so tight lipped about the S/C Coyote GT?
Collateral damage to their own range while they have stock to shift....

117 FPV V8s in the first two months says the "cone of silence" isn't working....

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by jpd80

117 FPV V8s in the first two months says the "cone of silence" isn't working....

Good point...!

Seriously.. this new S/C GT is the most eagerly anticipated aussie performance model i can remember..!

Even the new S/C XR8 is getting people keen!

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

What happens when rats scurry back to the nest with poison..??

Hmmm. As if a pack of hooligans stepping up from the VL turbros into Ford I6T turbos wasn't enough, we'll now get a stack of meat-heads swapping their LSx for something that has a bigger kilowatt number.

[Swordsman88]

More here. Looks like caradvice is claiming the base auto will be the corporate 6sp (6r80) as per paxton's earlier post. http://www.caradvice.com.au/63984/my...-go-six-speed/

Originally Posted by caradvice

MY10 Ford Falcon range to go six-speed

April 6, 2010 by Paul Maric


With the July 1st Euro IV emissions cut-off looming, CarAdvice can reveal that Ford will begin using six-speed automatic transmissions across the entire range of Ford Falcon s from July 1st, 2010.

Two six-speed automatic transmissions will be available to Falcon customers (both sedan and commercial).

The XT, G6, XR6, Falcon Ute, R6 Ute and XR6 Ute will use the new six-speed automatic transmission, while the G6E, G6E Turbo and XR6 Turbo variants will use the ZF Sachs six-speed automatic transmission. The ZF Sachs six-speed automatic transmission will be available as an option on all sedans and the XR6 Turbo Ute.

Details are still unclear regarding where the new six-speed transmission will come from. Sources have suggested it will be the Ford 6R80 six-speed automatic transmission currently used in the Ford Explorer, Lincoln Navigator and the yet to be released Ford Ranger T6.

The new six-speed automatic transmission will weigh an additional 7kg over the current five-speed automatic transmission. While the weight has increased, fuel consumption is expected to come down to record lows for the Australian Falcon.

Power output from the revised 4.0-litre I6 will remain at 195kW @ 6,000rpm, likewise for the turbocharged version at 270kW @ 5,750rpm.

The July 1st Falcon FG2 update is expected to bring with it minor styling changes, set to rejuvenate the model, which has been on sale since February 2008.

The MY10 upgrade comes amid news Ford’s liquid injected gas engine has been delayed until early 2011. CarAdvice will keep you updated as more information comes to hand.

Not sure on the sources or acuracy but take it as you will.

Good news all round really. Base car will almost certainly get a fuel burn saving and if electric steering comes in that will help too, along with any euro 4 associated retuning. 6r80 is no mug niether...not ZF good but damn good. Will further enforce Ford's drivetrain superority over Holden. Their 6sp aint a patch on it according to reports from the states...

[Bobman]

As long as there will be an easy way to distinguish both transmissions without necessarily looking underneath the car.

I thought the first FGs went on sale in April, not February, 2008?

[R-Design]

So if the XR8 gets 315 kw can we expect a big power hike for the F6?

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by Boss315

So if the XR8 gets 315 kw can we expect a big power hike for the F6?

The way FPV work via the supposed mantra suggests that a FPV product must contain or do three things.

One of which includes the term "substantial" power increase over the donor product or words to that effect.

Since the Xr8 has had a bigger brother, that "substantial" has meant 30kws 30kws and 25 kws.

If history is a guide and that’s no certainty the GT will be somewhere around 340 to 345ish or perhaps a version of it will be.

As the F6 is based on the Xr6T the first series enjoyed 30 kws which was the norm, but the second series received 40 kws. There is no real pattern that is usable to predict the F6 power over the GT or under the GT. It started life 20 kws down and is now only 5 kws down. You could suggest that it might surpass the GT at that rate ;)
If the assumption is correct and that the new XR8 is taking off when the current GT sits then it’s probably reasonable to assume the current F6 becomes the XR6 spec engine. Possibly not accurate though.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by phillyc

Went over to LS1 to check out their thoughts a couple of nights ago about the Coyote in the Mustang. Quite a few were in denial that Ford would fit a S/C Coyote to any Falcon

Why doesn't that surprise me. :

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

They will have something worked.. no doubt.

It sounds like they, do but its product focused.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Boss315

So if the XR8 gets 315 kw can we expect a big power hike for the F6?

I wouldn't think so, the F6 is based on the XR6T, as long as there is a significant gap between it and the XR6T then it fits with FPV's product vision..

XR8/GT are a different product line.

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I wouldn't think so, the F6 is based on the XR6T, as long as there is a significant gap between it and the XR6T then it fits with FPV's product vision..

XR8/GT are a different product line.

I tend to think that FPV pulling the Kw's into line between the V8 & I6T on the FG range had more to do with justifying the same price tag between the models. With the 5.0 we'll probably see the of the V8 increase as compared to the I6T justifying the higher Kw rating.

Having said that, how can the FPV F6 justify its price tag if it's out powered by a Ford XR8? I think it's time for FPV to hit HSV a double fisted knockout blow. It's not outside of the realms of possibility for the GT & F6 to have higher power ratings than the GTS. It’d certainly give the Holden faithful something to think about.

[merlin]

I'm very excited about the S/C V8 - in XR8 form it would be enough to get me to trade up from the BF2 XR6T (as long as fuel economy was relativly comparable).

Unless of course they introduced a DSG box for the turbo....

EDIT - having said, call me crazy, but I still find the 245kw in my stock T to be more than enough power. I find all this increase in power to 300kw+ totally unnecessary (but I certainly wouldn't knock it back). A switch to the S/C V8 would be purely for the exhaust note. I'd like to see other incremental changes besides power like DSG, bi-modal exhausts, xenons ect.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Boss315

I tend to think that FPV pulling the Kw's into line between the V8 & I6T on the FG range had more to do with justifying the same price tag between the models. With the 5.0 we'll probably see the of the V8 increase as compared to the I6T justifying the higher Kw rating.

Having said that, how can the FPV F6 justify its price tag if it's out powered by a Ford XR8? I think it's time for FPV to hit HSV a double fisted knockout blow. It's not outside of the realms of possibility for the GT & F6 to have higher power ratings than the GTS. It’d certainly give the Holden faithful something to think about.

That's true, however to be honest i think, due mainly to brand loyalty The S/C Coyote GT/XR8 will "hurt" the F6/XR6T more than the HSV/SS range..
People don't just shop on output numbers.
The other point is there is only so much power you can get from 4.0l of capacity, and with EU4 and soon EU5 its going to get even harder to extract power...
Coyote offers 25% more capacity to play with.

25% more of anything in this world is SIGNIFICANT.

[Smoke Pursuit]

So what else will these new cars get? Xexons and Leds?

[R-Design]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

That's true, however to be honest i think, due mainly to brand loyalty The S/C Coyote GT/XR8 will "hurt" the F6/XR6T more than the HSV/SS range..
People don't just shop on output numbers.

I think the most effective part of producing a supercharged XR8 with 315 Kw’s is the doubt it creates in the minds of the Holden faithful. You’re average Holden man buys an SS/R8 out of habit more than anything else. He expects that when he shows up to a BBQ in the new ride the majority of people there will be envious. When he realises the Blue ovals V8 is punching out 55 Kw’s than his (AFM) SS Auto or 2 Kw’s less than his much more expensive Clubsport R8, he starts question if 1) Holden is the first choice for performance, 2) If he’s going to get laughed at for bringing a new SS/Clubby to the next BBQ.

It may not lead to an initial conquest sale but, it’ll lead to a lot more foot traffic coming through the dealership (which is ½ the battle), and at worst a reduction in Holden/HSV sales. We saw at the launch of the BA that when Ford has the clear product advantage people will cross the floor in a big way. This should be no different if Ford/FPV is on the ball.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Boss315

I think the most effective part of producing a supercharged XR8 with 315 Kw’s is the doubt it creates in the minds of the Holden faithful. You’re average Holden man buys an SS/R8 out of habit more than anything else. He expects that when he shows up to a BBQ in the new ride the majority of people there will be envious. When he realises the Blue ovals V8 is punching out 55 Kw’s than his (AFM) SS Auto or 2 Kw’s less than his much more expensive Clubsport R8, he starts question if 1) Holden is the first choice for performance, 2) If he’s going to get laughed at for bringing a new SS/Clubby to the next BBQ.

It may not lead to an initial conquest sale but, it’ll lead to a lot more foot traffic coming through the dealership (which is ½ the battle), and at worst a reduction in Holden/HSV sales. We saw at the launch of the BA that when Ford has the clear product advantage people will cross the floor in a big way. This should be no different if Ford/FPV is on the ball.

Let's hope the new XR8 has the same effect on the SS
as the XR6T had on the blown SV6...gone baby, gone...

But seriously, Holden will come back with a slightly bigger engine,
GM has a 6.5 litre engine that put out almost as much as the 7.0..

[Bobman]

Probably won't be long before the Government steps in again, just like they did with the Super Car Scare of the early 1970s. Some good reading about that here: http://forums.biante.com.au/showthread.php?t=826

"Think of the children" they'll say!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bobman

Probably won't be long before the Government steps in again, just like they did with the Super Car Scare of the early 1970s. Some good reading about that here: http://forums.biante.com.au/showthread.php?t=826

"Think of the children" they'll say!

It's a different world today, the government now buys lots of Toyotas
so Ford and GM don't feel constrained by government threats any more...

[vztrt]

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2576FE0025F729

Ford finesses Falcon for 2010

Six-speed auto and fuel economy gains headline Ford’s 2010 Falcon six upgrade

7 April 2010

By MARTON PETTENDY

FORD Australia has revealed a raft of improvements for its six-cylinder Falcon sedans and utes, less than 24 hours after we revealed the Blue Oval's all-supercharged 5.0-litre V8 plan for this year’s upgraded XR8 and FPV models.

As with the new force-fed Coyote V8-powered models, which are unlikely to emerge until September, the six-cylinder Falcon model upgrade is designed to meet tighter federal emissions legislation, which comes into effect from July.

Beating their blown bent-eight XR8 and FPV siblings to market by up to four months, Ford’s upgraded 2010 Falcon sixes enter production next month and will become available in showrooms earlier than anticipated in June.

“Falcon XR8 sedan and Ute models are not part of this Euro IV upgrade for the FG Falcon range,” said Ford. “Details regarding plans for the iconic XR8 nameplate will be revealed at a later date.”

As expected, while the Euro 4 Falcon upgrade brings no performance or cosmetic upgrades, there are equipment and fuel efficiency gains across the 4.0-litre petrol engine range, following the replacement of volume-selling models' five-speed automatic transmission with Ford's slick six-speed ZF auto.

Accompanying increases of between $100 and $1100 see the Falcon price range start above $40,000 for the first time, which Ford says is more than accounted for mechanical, equipment and safety upgrades.

The latter includes the standard fitment of side head/thorax airbags in XR6 and XR6 Turbo Ute models - but not in entry-level utes.

Similarly, while head-protecting front side airbags are standard across the Falcon sedan range, curtain airbags that also protect rear passengers remain optional at base level in the Falcon, unlike its locally-built large-car rivals.

Bluetooth phone and iPod connectivity will, however, be standard on all 2010 FG Falcons (except utes with an optional column-shift), instead of being standard only on the G6ET.

LPG-powered Falcon E-Gas models are understood to have received Euro 4 exemption until they are replaced by Ford's all-new LPI liquid-injection - which has been delayed until early 2011 - while the Falcon wagon will also continue unchanged, before it is discontinued mid-year.

Holden's answer to Ford's next-generation LPG Falcon appears increasingly likely to lie only in its first E85 Commodore, due on sale late this year, but Ford will have no direct response for Holden's direct-injection 3.0-litre SIDI V6 Commodores until its first four-cylinder Falcon appears in mid-2011.

There are no changes to the Territory, which was upgraded to Euro 4 standard as part of the SYII update in May 2009 before receiving a major midlife facelift and V6 turbo-diesel power early next year.

For 2010, Ford's polished ZF six-speed auto combines with a range of hardware and software revisions to lift the Falcon's fuel economy by up to 8.5 per cent.

Previously optional on the entry-level Falcon XT sedan and standard on G6E and G6E Turbo sedans and all XR6 Turbo and XR8 models, the six-speed ZF replaces the five-speed auto currently available on naturally aspirated petrol Falcons, including the XT, G6 and G6E.

Ford says all non-turbo, non-LPG Falcon sedans equipped with an automatic transmission now return average ADR 81/02 fuel consumption of 9.9 L/100km, representing an improvement of 5.7 per cent on the XT, G6 and XR6 models and a gain of two per cent on the G6E, while the G6ET and XR6T are unchanged and 11.7L/100km.

As a result, exhaust emissions also improve, with upgraded models now producing just 236 grams of CO2 per km, which equates to a 5.5-star greenhouse rating from the federal government.

Naturally aspirated ute variants fitted with an automatic transmissions bring an even great fuel economy improvement, with an 8.5 per cent consumption reduction for the Falcon Ute, R6 and XR6, ,which now return 10.7L/100km. The XR6T Ute is unchanged at 12.5L/100km.

While the six-speed ZF will become the default automatic transmission for the entire petrol FG Falcon range, the Falcon’s Tremec TR6060 six-speed manual continues as the standard transmission on XR sedans and all Falcon Ute models.

A revised column-shift option for the ZF has also been developed, allowing a three-position bench seat to continue to be available for entry-level Falcon Ute workhorses.

Engineering upgrades for the straight-six Falcon drivetrain echo those made to the Territory last year, including a new catalytic converter and revised powertrain control module calibration to deliver emissions, driveability and fuel efficiency improvements.

Ford says the former incorporates latest catalyst technology, including a higher cell density within the catalyst brick and a new washcoat, while the new PCM calibration includes optimised cold-start and warm-up calibration, optimised hot idle calibration, revised pedal progression and a more progressive launch profile, minor transmission shift schedule changes for optimised upshift and cruise gear selection, and enhanced deceleration fuel shut-off (DFSO) for optimal urban fuel economy.

The 2010 Falcon six range comes with price increases of between 0.2 and 1.9 per cent. Ford says the FG upgrade represents even greater value for money for large car customers, with extra safety and equipment more than offsetting the price increases on most models.

For example, Ford’s manufacturer’s list price (not including luxury car tax) increases by $500 for the Falcon G6, which is claimed to gain almost $2500 of extra equipment. Similarly, the R6 Ute price increases by $500 but includes more than $1000 of extra features.

Falcon sedan pricing now opens at $40,290 for the entry-level XT (up $600), making the cheapest four-door Falcon $300 more expensive than its most direct rival in Holden’s Commodore Omega sedan ($39,990).

Similarly, the base Falcon Ute now costs $31,095 (up $600), but remains $2395 more affordable than the auto-only Commodore-based Omega Ute ($33,490).



2010 Ford Falcon pricing:
Falcon sedan:
XT $40,290 (+$600)
G6 $43,490 (+$500)
G6E $50,390 (+$500)
G6E Turbo $58,990 (+$1,100)
XR6 $42,990 (+$100)
XR6 Turbo $48,990 (+$600)
Falcon Ute:
Base (CC) $31,095 (+$600)
Base (SSB) $31,395 (+$500)
R6 (CC) $33,095 (+$600)
R6 (SSB) $33,395 (+$500)
XR6 (CC) $37,890 (+$600)
XR6 (SSB) $38,190 (+$500)
XR6 Turbo (SSB) $42,190 (+$500)