December 2011 Sales

[b0son]

Originally Posted by prydey

its just fashionable on AFF to stick the boots in to falcon.

but surely its not wrong to ask for a little realism? the Falcon used to go toe to toe with the Commodore. If you believed some, the plummet in sales is a shrude business move...

[FERG_51]

Originally Posted by Nic85

It might open a can of worms, BUT, there's no doubt that Ford offer a good product in Australia with the Falcon, especially now with ECOLPi and EB4 coming along. The problem clearly is not the product, rather the perception of the product. Just ask Mitsubishi Australia - the 380 was/is a great car to drive, but that didn't stop it becoming an extinct comodity in this country.

The media clearly have a lot to answer for, but also Ford need to have a good hard look at themselves, particularly their marketing division. I read it all the time on this forum, and it's so true. If I wasn't an enthusiast, I would have no idea that the Falcon has a dedicated LPG engined car, or that it has a turbo petrol 4 cylinder engine that will use about 20% less fuel than the comparable 6 cylinder model without sacrificing performance.

I think Ford has a real shot for Falcon sales to increase in 2012. No doubt they have the product for it, it's just whether or not people are made aware of the product.

So so true.

[whales]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I reckon Ford ran out of Falcon and Territory stock.....

Great result for Focus and just goes to show what aggressive advertising can do, there's a message in that...

Just imagine if Figo, Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo, Ecosport, and Kuga could all get 1500/mth, that would be 9,000 sales.

DCoffey Ford in Dandenong have had stuff all new Falcons in their yard for ages now on Focuses, Fiestas, Territorys and Rangers so i think you maybe rright about not having any Falcons in stock

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by whales

DCoffey Ford in Dandenong have had stuff all new Falcons in their yard for ages now on Focuses, Fiestas, Territorys and Rangers so i think you maybe rright about not having any Falcons in stock

Thanks for confirmation, I know that I'm right, new models in short supply asking full retail before Christmas,
it's the complete opposite to what Holden and Toyota were doing before Christmas

Think about it, how many more $34,990 drive away specials do you have to sell to get the same profit as one $42,990?
My guess is that around 2700 full priced Falcons and Territorys is as good as 6,000 combined at discounted prices...

What people have to understand is that the selling price governs profit, keep that higher and you don't have to sell as many,
it's a hard concept but right sizing for true market capacity enables a manufacturer to make less product and still
keep most of the profits they would have made by building excess stock and selling that at lower prices.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by b0son

but surely its not wrong to ask for a little realism? the Falcon used to go toe to toe with the Commodore. If you believed some, the plummet in sales is a shrude business move...

well it sorta worked for rolls royce....ha ha

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

If your losing $5,000 to $10,000 on each car sold, then i guess its far better to only sell 99 a month, instead of 299 a month.

Even though Ponitac G8 sold 40,000 examples, the write down was still around $200 million,
I see this being just as big of a blood bath.....

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by b0son

but surely its not wrong to ask for a little realism? the Falcon used to go toe to toe with the Commodore. If you believed some, the plummet in sales is a shrude business move...

No, it's survivability, Falcon can no longer afford empty sales.

What is better 1400 Falcon sales at full retail or 4,000 at $34,990 drive away?
Until you can understand that point, I'm afraid we're on different wavelengths with business plans...

It's not about sales, it's about profitability and eliminating those sales that don't make money.

[EgoFG]

On a Platform basis Falcon platform was very close to Commodore platform.
I have not been tracking it over recent times - but it seems closer than I remember.

[OzJavelin]

Wonder what will happen with all the bargain imports if the Aussie dollar drops to US$ 0.65 again?

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Think about it, how many more $34,990 drive away specials do you have to sell to get the same profit as one $42,990?
My guess is that around 2700 full priced Falcons and Territorys is as good as 6,000 combined at discounted prices...
What people have to understand is that the selling price governs profit, keep that higher and you don't have to sell as many,
it's a hard concept but right sizing for true market capacity enables a manufacturer to make less product and still
keep most of the profits they would have made by building excess stock and selling that at lower prices.

I suspect it would be very hard to support to full production facility with 2700 Falcons and Territories, 500 Utes, and 300 exports (3500 in total). Unfortunately Ford doesnt pay rates, electricity, security services or even calculate alot of its depreciation, based on how many cars are made.

My suspicion is that Ford has taken the view that the investment cycle is over (ie no more invesment into cambellfield). Over the next few years, they can try and sell alot of cars for very little profit (with no guarantee they will), or they can try and get a return on money invested and try and sell fewer cars at higher profits. The end result is the same, its just how they want to go about getting there.

The important part here is that a higher selling price only dribbles down to ford, and not the supplier base. Suppliers making 70 Falcon or territory specific parts a day wont be hangng around long enough for Ford to make a planned exit of the operations.

[Reaper8]

Holden filled all their yards with cars before they went on break for 3 weeks, they go back next week and most of their yard are still pritty full, cant see why dealers have no ss's there are plenty in the yards.

[Iggle Piggle]

Originally Posted by jpd80

What is better 1400 Falcon sales at full retail or 4,000 at $34,990 drive away?

Must be the second option, as they spent most of last year selling XR6's for $34990 drive away (or less) with goodies thrown in...but still not selling 4000.

[martyk54]

Originally Posted by Iggle Piggle

Must be the second option, as they spent most of last year selling XR6's for $34990 drive away (or less) with goodies thrown in...but still not selling 4000.

Too little, too late. Holden went the less profit / higher sales marketing route years ago, which obviously worked. Ford got too far behind and people start believing that the masses can't be wrong... they buy Commodore because it's bought by more people. We all know Ford's marketing in Australia is rubbish, this just highlights it once more.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by jpd80

No, it's survivability, Falcon can no longer afford empty sales.

What is better 1400 Falcon sales at full retail or 4,000 at $34,990 drive away?
Until you can understand that point, I'm afraid we're on different wavelengths with business plans...

It's not about sales, it's about profitability and eliminating those sales that don't make money.

What are you talking about? Falcons have been far cheaper than Commodores the last few years.

[dimka100]

Agree mate, I love the silly optimism of some members on this forum that simply do not want to admit to the facts presented in front of them ... the Falcon sales are down 35% on last year and are very close to the number of Sales Mitsubishi had before they closed shop! On top of that sales numbers have been falling down every year with absolutely no indication of any improvement what so ever ...

Sure as a result of poor revenue Ford had to significantly optimise their business operating costs to become far more cost effective to try and stay afloat as a local manufacturer rather than a pure importer ... but once the optimisations are complete, unless your sales get back to a level where you can justify investing more money into further development, your existing product will age and drop off ... at this point i'm not sure that anyone would invest 500m to 1bil into R&D when all they gonna sell is 20K vehicles a year ...

Originally Posted by eb2monty

Wrong. You can do better. Build more. There's just a little thing called DEMAND that gets in the way here. I admire this glass half full perspective but how low do sales have to get before we all agree that Falcon is in trouble...BIG trouble.

[csv8]

Originally Posted by Brazen

What are you talking about? Falcons have been far cheaper than Commodores the last few years.

and they are still making a profit. Shows how over priced they are, to begin with. Have a realistic selling price, might be an idea.

[turbodewd]

I think Aurion/Camry sales have disappeared too if Im not mistaken.

To be fair the Falcon/Territory figures should be added together in some ways because they share the same platform. So as long as the total figures of this local product are reasonable then it will perform okay in 2012. But they are throwing bugger all new features at the Falcon.

The terri got a diesel and recently got the 6-spd auto. The falcon has essentially run the same engine and gbox since about 2006. The 2008 FG had some nice tweaks, but doesnt look like it will be getting updates for a few more years...

[Iggle Piggle]

But do we know for certain that those Falcon sales were at a profit, or did the locally produced vehicles drag down the overall profit and it was the imports that kept the overall figure looking good?

If someone knows for certain, then what is/was the magic number for an XR6 where the sale became profitable?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by jpd80

What is better 1400 Falcon sales at full retail or 4,000 at $34,990 drive away?

Have any Falcons been sold at anywhere near full retail in recent years? Lets not even bring up economy of scale into the profitability discussion...

Falcon may share someparts with the Territory, but surely not enough that 1500 terri sales could support a further slide in Falcon sales to 1000 units or less??

[csv8]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

I think Aurion/Camry sales have disappeared too if Im not mistaken.

To be fair the Falcon/Territory figures should be added together in some ways because they share the same platform. So as long as the total figures of this local product are reasonable then it will perform okay in 2012. But they are throwing bugger all new features at the Falcon.

The terri got a diesel and recently got the 6-spd auto. The falcon has essentially run the same engine and gbox since about 2006. The 2008 FG had some nice tweaks, but doesnt look like it will be getting updates for a few more years...

Have a look at what Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo come with, for the price..Falcon is poorly optioned. I know, other FF won't agree. Then look at Citroen, Peugot, Renault and Skoda features for the same price..then look at the engines and drive trains ...I am in trouble now!!!

[b0son]

Originally Posted by csv8

Then look at Citroen, Peugot, Renault and Skoda features for the same price..then look at the engines and drive trains

The Falcon is bigger, and it can tow, why shouldnt it come at a premium? Even if a typical 4cyl hatchback has more useable space, and can actually also tow the amounts most people need (small amount of soil, as opposed to a double-axled caravan as some people would lead us to believe is owned by the majority)....

[prydey]

Originally Posted by martyk54

We all know Ford's marketing in Australia is rubbish,

yeah its pathetic. they don't show ads on tv where no one takes any notice anyway. very poor.

ford logo's and signage everywhere at mcg during boxing day test and also to a lesser extent in sydney.

a much more captive and larger audience than a 20 second ad will ever achieve.

[Iggle Piggle]

Yep, and those logos tell the buying public so much about the new range of engines/models. I see a red ball crash into a Ford logo'ed fence and it tells me all I need to know about a diesel territory, Ecoboost, ECOLPi, etc.

[prydey]

anyone buying a new car normally does their own research. advertising and marketing only needs to plant the seed to consider their brand. they don't need to tell every little detail. it would be pointless as no one would retain all that info from a ad anyway.

as soon as they type in www.ford.com.au, every bit of info is readily available, as well as a list of recently won awards etc.

[Iggle Piggle]

I wholeheartedly agree, but I would say there would be some out there that are not aware of the recent updates but they 'think' they know what Ford currently offers, and if they think the old range of engines is still the current range then they may possibly not even research the Ford product.

[prydey]

mate, i like cars and consider myself an enthusiast, but i couldn't tell you the first thing about holden engines other than commodore, nissan engines, mazda engines, kia engines, hyundai engines etc etc.

if i was looking to buy any of these cars, i would look them up.

so many people have the blinkers on concerning ford.

[flappist]

I wonder if this might be a contribution to the sales issue:

I am thinking of buying a new falcon, I wonder what owners think of them.

Oh look, AFF (Australia's leading Ford site).

Search....search....

Grumble, grumble, crap dealers, crap cars, break down, always the wrong models, marketing have no idea, nothing is good enough, too expensive, only buy second hand from auction, wrong engines, dealer servicing is a ripoff, holden this, holden that, holden the other, grumble whinge moan......

Ummm.... ok how about Mazda/Nissan/Toyota/(insert anything that is not Ford or Holden here).......

Search....search....

[prydey]

Originally Posted by flappist

I wonder if this might be a contribution to the sales issue:

I am thinking of buying a new falcon, I wonder what owners think of them.

Oh look, AFF (Australia's leading Ford site).

Search....search....

Grumble, grumble, crap dealers, crap cars, break down, always the wrong models, marketing have no idea, nothing is good enough, too expensive, only buy second hand from auction, wrong engines, dealer servicing is a ripoff, holden this, holden that, holden the other, grumble whinge moan......

Ummm.... ok how about Mazda/Nissan/Toyota/(insert anything that is not Ford or Holden here).......

Search....search....

exactly!!

another thing i've found though is that the majority of new car buyers on here are actually very happy with their cars.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

I think Aurion/Camry sales have disappeared too if Im not mistaken.

To be fair the Falcon/Territory figures should be added together in some ways because they share the same platform. So as long as the total figures of this local product are reasonable then it will perform okay in 2012. But they are throwing bugger all new features at the Falcon.

The terri got a diesel and recently got the 6-spd auto. The falcon has essentially run the same engine and gbox since about 2006. The 2008 FG had some nice tweaks, but doesnt look like it will be getting updates for a few more years...

ecoLPi? ecoboost? touchscreen? FG isn't being forgotten but ford have a limited budget.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by dimka100

Agree mate, I love the silly optimism of some members on this forum that simply do not want to admit to the facts presented in front of them ... the Falcon sales are down 35% on last year and are very close to the number of Sales Mitsubishi had before they closed shop! On top of that sales numbers have been falling down every year with absolutely no indication of any improvement what so ever ...

Sure as a result of poor revenue Ford had to significantly optimise their business operating costs to become far more cost effective to try and stay afloat as a local manufacturer rather than a pure importer ... but once the optimisations are complete, unless your sales get back to a level where you can justify investing more money into further development, your existing product will age and drop off ... at this point i'm not sure that anyone would invest 500m to 1bil into R&D when all they gonna sell is 20K vehicles a year ...

what about the members that are still living in the past and see ford as the falcon car company?? take your blinkers off. all large sedans are going the same direction. can't see the wood for the trees.