W427 finished - Page 5

Chilliman · 18-04-2009, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 51RTE

Wont be long and this thread will be finished just like 427 if people dont smarten up

Best comment all day!

Coogs289 · 18-04-2009, 04:44 PM

so the HO will be a success if they price it <100k and make sure it's not just a "sticker package"???
edit: can they make it a hell of a lot better than a normal GT without breaking the 100k mark?

Scott · 18-04-2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

No they didn't, Ford were in trouble in 06 and after two down balances they cant wait for Focus to go online.

Yes, they did.

FPV8U · 18-04-2009, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by velocity_avisGT

so the HO will be a success if they price it <100k and make sure it's not just a "sticker package"???
edit: can they make it a hell of a lot better than a normal GT without breaking the 100k mark?

I'd like to think the 30K would go a long way..

4Vman · 18-04-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV8U

I'd like to think the 30K would go a long way..

Its an extremely low build to amortize your costs over: you wont get much change from 30k once you pay for the Design, Research, development, ADR compliance and marketing of the car let alone actually buying the parts involved to make it worth while and some margin to make it worth the effort....
FPV have the same issues that HSV had... A GTHO would be every bit a 150K proposition too..

Coogs289 · 18-04-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Its an extremely low build to amortize your costs over: you wont get much change from 30k once you pay for the Design, Research, development, ADR compliance and marketing of the car let alone actually buying the parts involved to make it worth while and some margin to make it worth the effort....
FPV have the same issues that HSV had... A GTHO would be every bit a 150K proposition too..

thought you'd say that....:(

:

HSE2 · 18-04-2009, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP006

Yes, they did.

No they didn't.

Some in the media like to make out they did but their actions especially surrounding PAG indicated they had no greater knowledge then the rest of the world.

Most could pick a downturn coming. Thats not remarkable, it s the scale of such that wasn't.

Gobes32 · 18-04-2009, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

No they didn't.

Some in the media like to make out they did but their actions especially surrounding PAG indicated they had no greater knowledge then the rest of the world.

Most could pick a downturn coming. Thats not remarkable, it s the scale of such that wasn't.

I still say Mulally is a genius.........

HSE2 · 18-04-2009, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I still say Mulally is a genius.........

He is no question and so too is Bill Ford and a few others but that's not the point.

If you read through the transcripts to congress........

Falc'man · 18-04-2009, 08:09 PM

I think the car failed. But, with every failure there are lessons learnt.

Lesson one. Make sure your parent company will allow fitment of 7L motor during mainstream assembly, otherwise price will be a joke. Norm, as much as I agree that R&D and factory warranty costs money, someone stuffed up regarding the above.

Lesson two. Have a look at the interior colours of other $150K performance vehicles. A simple black would do.

Lesson three. Why make it look like a toothless bogan?

The fact they only sold 120 doesn't mean it's "more rare" thus in the future people will say "it's the supercar that Australians didn't want." Refer to lesson one.

They almost pulled it off, if it wasn't for the bloated price tag HSV may well have come up trumps. I respect their efforts, and most importantly, they tried. I wish FPV could be half as daring.

snappy · 18-04-2009, 08:11 PM

What is the source to state the w427 is finished ?.

Falc'man · 18-04-2009, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snappy84

What is the source to state the w427 is finished ?.

HSV is the source. They will stop taking orders at the end of this month.

Coogs289 · 18-04-2009, 08:26 PM

www.hsv.com.au/w427/
counting down...

**CAT600** · 18-04-2009, 08:42 PM

Agree mostly Norm, but the amortization costs do not have to be FULLY recovered on a HERO car.

Tickford infamously lost money on the T3 (I admit it was on a much lower scale than the W427), yet if you looked at the pricing of the T3, most people would never have known that........ because most people do not see the hidden costs associated with ADR, development etc.

Daniel

Wretched · 19-04-2009, 12:52 AM

While I was never a fan of the W427, actually thought they should have built the Coupe60, but any how, my hat goes off to HSV for giving it a go. Hopefully they learnt from this exercise and will be able to convert the mistakes into positives the next time round.

On the flip side, I am happy that FPV didn't venture into this, their money is better spent building a good reputation through affordable performance sedans. Once they get this down pat then I'd like to see them set aside some $$ in the budget for a all out monster, but please FPV leave the GTHO nameplate alone. Let it rest in peace where it's dignity will remain.

**Grunter** · 19-04-2009, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAT600

Agree mostly Norm, but the amortization costs do not have to be FULLY recovered on a HERO car.

Tickford infamously lost money on the T3 (I admit it was on a much lower scale than the W427), yet if you looked at the pricing of the T3, most people would never have known that........ because most people do not see the hidden costs associated with ADR, development etc.

Daniel

And they sold a couple more than 120 units.

**DJM83** · 19-04-2009, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Its an extremely low build to amortize your costs over: you wont get much change from 30k once you pay for the Design, Research, development, ADR compliance and marketing of the car let alone actually buying the parts involved to make it worth while and some margin to make it worth the effort....
FPV have the same issues that HSV had... A GTHO would be every bit a 150K proposition too..

So very true, alot of people dont see the hidden but nesscessary costs in designing cars. Not here to have a dig at Holden, but they have created alot of cars that in some ways a very left field and some wild concepts in the last 15 odd years. Some of those actually made it to the market ie W427, Coupe4, Avalanche, but most failed. My question is this would Holden have learnt from any of these so called 'flops' in anyway?

Unfortunatly your right with the GTHO Norm i think your spot on the money with the price.

Nikked · 19-04-2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAT600

Tickford infamously lost money on the T3 (I admit it was on a much lower scale than the W427), yet if you looked at the pricing of the T3, most people would never have known that........ because most people do not see the hidden costs associated with ADR, development etc.

Daniel

The T3 is a comparisim. It had similer work put into it. Engine, body, driveline etc but still had a competitive cost.

Bossxr8 · 19-04-2009, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Its an extremely low build to amortize your costs over: you wont get much change from 30k once you pay for the Design, Research, development, ADR compliance and marketing of the car let alone actually buying the parts involved to make it worth while and some margin to make it worth the effort....
FPV have the same issues that HSV had... A GTHO would be every bit a 150K proposition too..

Lets get theoretical. Just say next years GT has a supercharged engine like has been predicted. Surely it wouldn't be too hard for FPV to boost it up a little bit to add power. A hell of a lot cheaper than adding a whole new, very expensive engine like HSV did. It wouldn't need to be built offline because it wouldn't have a dry sump.

It would need suspension upgrades and brake upgrades for sure, and maybe a few unique body parts and interior bits. Even with all the testing involved with a new engine I think it can be done for 100k, because its no way near as involved as the WD40 was. Just look at how much Tickford did to the EL GT 10 years ago and it was still only around, I think, 70-75K. I know things are more expensive now but the amount of unique parts in the EL GT was a lot more than was fitted to the W427, and in todays money probably 50% cheaper.

Rod Barrett has mentioned in an article in GoAuto they would want it to cost no more than 100k. HSV's GTS 300 was less than 100k a few years ago too. The extra cost of the 427 and off line assembly is what made the price of the W427 so high. If it wasn't for that I think it could have sold for a lot less.

But either way I don't think FPV would have the balls to do it anyway, I like they way Rod Barrett has said that if they couldn't make it live up to its history then they won't do it at all. Thats the way it should be, if its nothing but a sticker pack people will burn FPV to the ground, you just don't mess with icons.

wicksy · 19-04-2009, 10:05 PM

wonder how much will pop up in mackay, seen a couple lately

**DJM83** · 19-04-2009, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

The T3 is a comparisim. It had similer work put into it. Engine, body, driveline etc but still had a competitive cost.

But it wasnt double the price of the next car down the list, similar story though

**CAT600** · 19-04-2009, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Just look at how much Tickford did to the EL GT 10 years ago and it was still only around, I think, 70-75K. I know things are more expensive now but the amount of unique parts in the EL GT was a lot more than was fitted to the W427, and in todays money probably 50% cheaper.

A lot of people will flame you for that comment, but you are on the money. I did a list of things a while back that was unique to the ELGT (much more than the EB) and I was surprised at the end how many items were different to the EL Ghia/XR8.

Relativley speaking, cars have gotten cheap. An EL XR8 was around 40K, the ELGT was 69,500. Thats about 50% more....... A W427 should have been marketed at around 105-110K maximum when compared to a 75K GTS.

Daniel

Pedro · 20-04-2009, 12:38 AM

My chosen drive is an FG F6 auto as (in my opinion) its' the best bang for your buck available in its price range that I can afford.

Had I the means to contemplate ordering a performance car in the $150K bracket then a W427 wouldn't even be on my list. As someone said in an earlier post, you'd have to be a bogan of sorts, and it seems Holden underestimated the number of bogans willing to part with that kind of money, but I must say, the world melt down wouldn’t have helped.

When you get into serious price brackets like that, my choice would be an M3 or some such. Local brands just don't cut it. I've driven BMW's, Mercedes and to a lesser extent, Audis for extended periods and it doesn't matter if it's Holden or Ford the chassis dynamics of the locals just don’t cut it. I used to travel around 60 – 80,000 kms a year in Falcons from XE’s to current models and the rattles start from around 7-10,000 kms and then you can feel things starting to get loose. I recently drove a friend’s Audi that’s done 80,000 kms and the whole car is tight as a drum. My FG’s done 7885 kms and is already starting to get loose.

So I guess what I’m trying to say, is that a W427 just isn’t worth the money, when I could spend a few dollars on the F6 and have the same performance in a similar quality (or slightly better) chassis.

**CAT600** · 20-04-2009, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedro

I used to travel around 60 – 80,000 kms a year in Falcons from XE’s to current models and the rattles start from around 7-10,000 kms and then you can feel things starting to get loose. I recently drove a friend’s Audi that’s done 80,000 kms and the whole car is tight as a drum. My FG’s done 7885 kms and is already starting to get loose.

Very well said. My wifes 60,000km old X5 is completely rattle free and has not changed since we bought it. My old mans F6X has about 10,000kms on it and its already started to make the odd squeak here and there.

But I know which one gets whumped in a fight!

Daniel

Iggypoppin' · 20-04-2009, 01:31 AM

these days, you get what you pay for...

Nikked · 20-04-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 51RTE

But it wasnt double the price of the next car down the list, similar story though

Exactly...

Bossxr8 · 20-04-2009, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedro

My chosen drive is an FG F6 auto as (in my opinion) its' the best bang for your buck available in its price range that I can afford.

Had I the means to contemplate ordering a performance car in the $150K bracket then a W427 wouldn't even be on my list. As someone said in an earlier post, you'd have to be a bogan of sorts, and it seems Holden underestimated the number of bogans willing to part with that kind of money, but I must say, the world melt down wouldn’t have helped.

When you get into serious price brackets like that, my choice would be an M3 or some such. Local brands just don't cut it. I've driven BMW's, Mercedes and to a lesser extent, Audis for extended periods and it doesn't matter if it's Holden or Ford the chassis dynamics of the locals just don’t cut it. I used to travel around 60 – 80,000 kms a year in Falcons from XE’s to current models and the rattles start from around 7-10,000 kms and then you can feel things starting to get loose. I recently drove a friend’s Audi that’s done 80,000 kms and the whole car is tight as a drum. My FG’s done 7885 kms and is already starting to get loose.

So I guess what I’m trying to say, is that a W427 just isn’t worth the money, when I could spend a few dollars on the F6 and have the same performance in a similar quality (or slightly better) chassis.

I'd take an C63 AMG or M3 over a W427 any day of the week, and anyone who has half a brain would too. I would not care if they are a bit smaller than a Commonwhore, the fact is they are thoroughbreds, not just a bogans wet dream, and so much better made.

**DJM83** · 20-04-2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I'd take an C63 AMG or M3 over a W427 any day of the week, and anyone who has half a brain would too. I would not care if they are a bit smaller than a Commonwhore, the fact is they are thoroughbreds, not just a bogans wet dream, and so much better made.

Agreed, i was following an C63 AMG down the M1 to the Gold Coast on Sunday and it was simply stunning and sounded fantastic.

An Audi RS4 would probably on top of my list though, with 25-30k change for a little mods.

FPV8U · 20-04-2009, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I'd take an C63 AMG or M3 over a W427 any day of the week, and anyone who has half a brain would too. I would not care if they are a bit smaller than a Commonwhore, the fact is they are thoroughbreds, not just a bogans wet dream, and so much better made.

Agreed 100% if i was ever in the finacial position to spend that sort of money on a Car it would either have a AMG or a M Badge on it.

Nikked · 20-04-2009, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I'd take an C63 AMG or M3 over a W427 any day of the week, and anyone who has half a brain would too. I would not care if they are a bit smaller than a Commonwhore, the fact is they are thoroughbreds, not just a bogans wet dream, and so much better made.

Yep, the Build quality fit and finish ect and the Germans is way better the the Commodore. You can see where the money went.

Plus, you don't have a car that SSV sells fiberglass copies of...