Workers to vote against pay cut to save Holden

[GQ_Smooth]

If there is a genuine threat that Elizabeth will end up being a mini Detroit then I'm all for steps to be taken to mitigate it. Holden is 9 years away from leaving once the money is handed over. Yes anything can happen in 9 years to change the economic climate, but I genuinely don't see them staying, unless GM US allow them to produce a global car for export, and I can't see them choosing Australia as that plant.

I don't trust our governments (not that it's purely the governments responsibility) to put a plan in place to find alternative industries/employment of the majority of these people. Are we just moving the problem a further 9 years down the track for gen Y to tackle? I am glad I don't have to make these decisions as it would drive me mental and give me a nervous breakdown.

You are correct we don't know all the facts, if anything knowing all the facts makes these decisions a lot more difficult (ignorance is bliss).

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by GQ_Smooth

If there is a genuine threat that Elizabeth will end up being a mini Detroit then I'm all for steps to be taken to mitigate it. Holden is 9 years away from leaving once the money is handed over. Yes anything can happen in 9 years to change the economic climate, but I genuinely don't see them staying, unless GM US allow them to produce a global car for export, and I can't see them choosing Australia as that plant.

I don't trust our governments (not that it's purely the governments responsibility) to put a plan in place to find alternative industries/employment of the majority of these people. Are we just moving the problem a further 9 years down the track for gen Y to tackle? I am glad I don't have to make these decisions as it would drive me mental and give me a nervous breakdown.

You are correct we don't know all the facts, if anything knowing all the facts makes these decisions a lot more difficult (ignorance is bliss).

Im not saying Holdens will hang around post 2022, im simply saying that until things improve and people start hiring again I believe it is in the states best interest to keep the status quo.

The old sayings 'a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush' 'better the devil you know' comes to mind.
And this is why, if we take off our blue tinted glasses we can see the economic importance behind the goverments decision to support the industry.

Workers didn't vote against saving Holden, they voted to keep their redundancy entitlements when it finally goes under.

[GQ_Smooth]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Workers didn't vote against saving Holden, they voted to keep their redundancy entitlements when it finally goes under.

I would have done the same, and I've never been part of any union.

[wrongwaynorris]

Does anyone here honestly believe Holden ( regardless of what they say ) will be producing cars in Australia post 2016 ? If so i have a lovely Bridge and Opera House to sell you .

[naddis01]

So have the workers actually voted against the future pay freezes yet?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

This sint about economics or funding, its about Ford closing and the thought of the other mob staying and its sour grapes.

Seriously?

I think most people here support the auto industry but it's getting to a point with Holden that its not government assistance anymore, it downright extortion.

If they get another $200 million that is close to half a billion dollars they will be getting. I've never known another manufacturer who has tried to milk the government out of so much money it will probably pay for half of the cost of a new model. At the same time GM is trumpeting they are making around $2 billion in profit per quarter.

At the moment the federal and state government and Ford are putting close to $50 million into the Geelong and Broadmeadows areas for training and job creation to employ the people losing their jobs in 2016. Imagine what they could do with half a billions dollars of the money they are pouring down the drain to Holden, who are basically assured of closing. They cannot survive on their sales figures. Better off spending it on that rather than wasting cash flogging a dead horse.

One business in Geelong is getting government investment money to build a brand new carbon fibre wheel factory, which will employ 300 by 2016. 300 is more than half the amount Ford are making redundant, and the government is only tipping in a few million. These carbon fibre wheels will be fitted to supercars within a few years, they are basically production ready now. Better to support these start up companies with a future.

That is unless the government actually wants to help the manufacturers actually sell cars by giving the public incentives to buy them. If they don't do this they may as well kiss it goodbye because no matter how much cash you throw at it sales will continue to dwindle, and low production numbers = death.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Seriously?

Serious!

But hey, lets turn the place into a Government funded training hub and the next wave of up skilled dreamers can get paper qualifications for a job which doesn't exist unless your into wiping *****, young or old.

Heres a revelation, 10 years ago I was told that the defence force will make Adelaides northern suburbs a training hub, the army has already moved in...conscription anyone?

[GK]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Ross McKenzie, sales ans marketing manager I think he was.
The AU v VT, BA v VY years were fun. Was the last time we really had a car guy in Geoff Polities running Ford and another car guy in Peter Hanenberger running Holden, and a bunch of car nuts behind them building and designing the cars. They were passionate about their companies and the products they made. These days it's a bunch of accountants running the show. Take me back to 1999 any day...

Not that I could afford one, as they were way too priced then, but I'd certainly love a brand spanker AU2-3 Ghia V8 optioned up to the eyebrows! LOL!

I'd also gladly own a Fairmont V8 wagon too!

GK

[KIWI-1]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

One business in Geelong is getting government investment money to build a brand new carbon fibre wheel factory, which will employ 300 by 2016. 300 is more than half the amount Ford are making redundant, and the government is only tipping in a few million. These carbon fibre wheels will be fitted to supercars within a few years, they are basically production ready now. Better to support these start up companies with a future.

Carbon Revolution have already received $1.8million as part of the Green Car Innovation fund. They need more to go into production so for the sake of the argument we up that to a total of $5million.

If we were divide the $500million Holden want by the $1.8million Carbon Revolution have received we could help > 250 businesses like Carbon Revolution (or 100 if they were to get $5million).

Carbon Revolution handout per job=5,000,000/300=$16,666 one off.
Holden handout per job = 500,000,000/1700=$294,117 per annum.

Now here's a question for those who say they support local manufacturing. Bendix spend $8.8million last year upgrading their Ballarat facility. Which of the 3 local assemblers use Bendix as OEM?

[vztrt]

http://www.afr.com/p/national/holden...eCZpj7EC7TXwEM

Holden seeks two-year pay freeze

Mark Skulley

GM Holden will next week ask its 1700 production workers to take a two-year pay freeze as part of a survival package that cuts about $15 million in annual costs to boost the plant’s chances of securing production of new generation models.

But the package of measures, which will go to the vote on August 9, does not include cuts to workers’ existing wages and redundancy entitlements.

It is understood that intense negotiations concluded on Tuesday with a series of variations that Holden will seek to the existing enterprise agreements covering its Elizabeth assembly plant in Adelaide.

However, industry sources said the changes will include a freeze on real wages through workers foregoing a scheduled 3 per cent pay rise in November, under the company’s existing enterprise agreements, and another scheduled rise in 2014.

The Australian Manufacturing Workers Union and individual Holden workers reacted strongly when Holden floated the possibility of pay cuts as part of 41 savings measures, raising the chances of the package being rejected.

The national secretary of the AMWU’s vehicle division, Dave Smith, on Tuesday refused to comment on the detailed changes being sought by Holden, but he confirmed that “there are no cuts to employees’ existing wages”.

“They were rejected by the union and that was very clearly articulated by our members,” he said. “There are no cuts to workers’ redundancy *entitlements. The union’s focus has always been on improving productivity and cutting costs.”

Comment was not available from Holden on Wednesday night. On Tuesday, Holden played down the prospect of outright pay cuts as part of the “significant labour-related cost savings and productivity improvements” it was seeking.

“Holden’s aim has been to minimise or remove potential wage cuts from the outset of these discussions – the cost savings outlined by the company will be achieved through a combination of labour-related savings, productivity and flexibility measures,” a Holden spokesman said.

“From an extensive list of potential measures, Holden and the unions have worked together to find a combination that achieves the company’s cost-saving goals. Previous reports claiming a proposed 10 per cent wage cut were pure media speculation and untrue.”

As part of the negotiations the AMWU’s South Australian secretary, John Camillo, pushed for industry academic Goran Roos to examine Holden’s business plan and cost structure. Mr Roos’s work is understood to have supported management arguments that they are losing money on making cars in Adelaide.

Holden production workers took a pay cut of between 25 per cent and 43 per cent over 18 months, during the global financial crisis, when its parent General Motors entered into Chapter 11 bankruptcy in the United States for major restructuring.

[vztrt]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226689130357

Holden a gun to their heads

EXCLUSIVE by Simon Benson

HOLDEN is expected to demand another $130 million a year in taxpayer-funded subsidies to keep making cars in Australia in a take-it-or-leave-it threat.

The demand means taxpayers would pay about $2000 for every car Holden makes in what has been labelled a "gun to the head" ultimatum.

The Daily Telegraph understands the demand will be made next week to both the government and the opposition during the first week of a possible election campaign.

The government and car industry are still locked in negotiations over a new deal for car manufacturing in the wake of Kevin Rudd's shock decision to crack down on fringe benefit tax concessions for salary-packaged vehicles. Holden and Toyota have both claimed the FBT changes would impact on local car sales, while the salary-packaging industry has warned of up to 3000 job cuts.

The Australian Automobile Dealers Association yesterday said that 75 per cent of dealerships reported cancelled orders "from five cars to more than 100 cars each", raising concerns about job losses at a dealer level.

Senior industry sources have confirmed Holden will tell both the government and the opposition it now wants an unconditional subsidy of up to $130 million a year - on top of the generous assistance it already receives - to continue making cars locally. It will reject any conditions placed on extra subsidies - such as developing an export market for its new models - and would restrict all new cars to a local market only.

It is believed the ultimatum will be put formally after Holden reaches agreement next week with its workers to impose a wage freeze in a further cost-cutting exercise - in direct retaliation to the FBT changes.The opposition is unlikely to buckle to the demands, although it has promised to scrap Mr Rudd's FBT changes.

Industry Minister Kim Carr, who was handed the problem after cabinet agreed to the $1.8 billion FBT changes to help pay for axing the carbon tax, is still in discussion with Holden and Toyota to salvage a deal to save the local car industry.

Mr Carr would not comment on the reported counter-demand from Holden.

"I do not discuss private conversations I have with industry nor would I ever reveal commercial-in-confidence material that had been provided to me in good faith by any company," he said yesterday.

A spokesman for Holden also declined to comment. Coalition sources claimed it was unlikely to yield to industry demands, saying the new deal it was seeking no longer represented "industry assistance" but an outright taxpayer, no-strings-attached subsidy to make cars in Australia.

"This is putting a gun to the head of both sides of politics," a Liberal source said. "They are giving up any mirage of industry assistance and going for outright subsidies to continue to make cars in Australia."

[stazza]

So that means all us Ford supporters will be giving money to Holedung. **** that.

Just die already Holden.

[pearlhead]

I know Holden is trying their best (if you can call it that) to keep car manufacturing here going, but this is just too ridiculous.

[blueoval]

I reckon the workers should accept the pay freeze/cut if the CEO/managers/directors accepts and lives on the same rate of pay.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by blueoval

I reckon the workers should accept the pay freeze/cut if the CEO/managers/directors accepts and lives on the same rate of pay.

No worries comrade.

[blueoval]

I should have added to the end of that post

[bobthebilda]

A beat up by the unions, or a genuine threat that Holden have decided to pack up by 2016????

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-0...freeze/4859720

Holden offers workers pay freeze to keep Elizabeth car manufacturing plant open
Holden workers are facing a three-year pay freeze and cuts to conditions to keep the company's plant at Elizabeth in Adelaide's north open.

The car maker is looking to save $15 million annually in labour costs to stay viable.

John Camillo from the Federation of Vehicle Industry Unions says the future of 1,700 Holden workers hangs on their vote on Friday next week.

"Holden has made it quite clear that if the workers reject the variation they have decided to close the operation down in 2016," he said.

More than 50 per cent of workers must support the secret ballot for the changes to be accepted.

Mr Camillo says Holden's commitment to Australia is also dependent on continuing taxpayer support.

"If the workers say yes and the Federal Government is prepared to support GM there will be replacement of the Cruze and Commodore," he said.

Mr Camillo says a proposed 10 per cent pay cut has been taken off the table.

[The G6ET Spot]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

Now here's a question for those who say they support local manufacturing. Bendix spend $8.8million last year upgrading their Ballarat facility. Which of the 3 local assemblers use Bendix as OEM?

That would be a big fat 0

[fte50]

Whatever folks think, best our govts. distribute our wealth and ensure Aussie funded tax monies go towards our Aussie employed friends at GMH rather than some non value added queue jumping immigrant who would rather be known as a refugee.

[tezxr8man]

Originally Posted by The G6ET Spot

That would be a big fat 0

I pulled a set of bendix out of an FG GS the other day and it only had 30,000 k's on it?

[tezxr8man]

I still think stemming the flow of imports here is the better way to go for our manufacturing and making it a more attractive place for companies to prosper, it's not rocket science really. At the end of the day it's better for our economy and yes some of those companies will be owned elsewhere but if they are making money here they are spending here too

[Bossxr8]

Its basically extortion, no longer just industry assistance. Give us what we want or we'll leave.

At the same time they cry poor they keep pumping multi millions into V8SC.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by stazza

Holden needs to just lay down and die already.

Is it 2016 yet?

[KIWI-1]

A $15million saving is a drop in the $500million subsidy + $150million loss bucket?
Hardly a "survival package".

[MAD]

Originally Posted by KIWI-1

Now here's a question for those who say they support local manufacturing. Bendix spend $8.8million last year upgrading their Ballarat facility. Which of the 3 local assemblers use Bendix as OEM?

On this topic, Toyota are the only manufacturer to use ROH wheels.

[Brazen]

I think a simple direct annual subsidy is the best bet.

Government's picking the best options/projects never work, ie $150 million Green Car investment on the Falcon Ecoboost disaster that sells about 50 a month.

Give them a direct subsidy and let the market form the best use of the money.

Anyway with a $130 million a year subsidy works out to $1500 a car, which is about half the $3000 average in GST the Government will get back on each car anyway.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I think a simple direct annual subsidy is the best bet.

Government's picking the best options/projects never work, ie $150 million Green Car investment on the Falcon Ecoboost disaster that sells about 50 a month.

Give them a direct subsidy and let the market form the best use of the money.

Anyway with a $130 million a year subsidy works out to $1500 a car, which is about half the $3000 average in GST the Government will get back on each car anyway.

How about put the subsidy in the hands of the consumer by giving a new car buyer a rebate (or make it 5% GST) on the purchase of a car made or assembled in Australia. Forget dishing out money to the car makers for **** that doesn't work. That way it will be entirely consumer driven as to whether or not they want to support the local car manufacturers.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Government's picking the best options/projects never work, ie $150 million Green Car investment on the Falcon Ecoboost disaster that sells about 50 a month.

Nah, Ford only ever received $40 million to develop Diesel Territory, EcoLPI Falcon engine and Ecoboost I-4 Falcon,
The funding given to the Ecoboost portion looks to be around as much as the government funding to meet Euro 4..

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

Does anyone here honestly believe Holden ( regardless of what they say ) will be producing cars in Australia post 2016 ? If so i have a lovely Bridge and Opera House to sell you .

I do!!


There are just too many experts like you that think they know everything. I personally think Holden is trying very very hard to stay here, Ford took the easy option.

If they all end up in the same position, there will always be respect from me (a Ford Fan), that Holden tried dam hard to stay here.

[stazza]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I do!!


There are just too many experts like you that think they know everything. I personally think Holden is trying very very hard to stay here, Ford took the easy option.

If they all end up in the same position, there will always be respect from me (a Ford Fan), that Holden tried dam hard to stay here.

Sorry what? Ford took the easy way out?

They are just smart enough to see the writing on the wall instead of Holden bullshitting everyone and trying to scab more money.

It's easy for holden, they will just keep asking for more cash.