XR8 vs SSV including dyno test - Page 5

SensationFG8 · 10-01-2015, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skoobysGT

Again. . Horses for courses. .I think the XR8 is fugly as hell inside and out.. The GT's/GTF's look tonnes better on the outside but the interior seriously is so outdated. . The SS interior is galaxies ahead of it

Yeah but here's the thing and possibly where you guys might consider. This is the blue forum, the subjective stuff like looks you might wanna just concede you will never convince us the SS looks nice

Honestly I don't think the interior is galaxies ahead, it is against ve, but the ve was miles behind fg. That put VF a little ahead of fgx Imo.

Having done my shopping for a new v8 earlier this year I had ssv, ssv redline, clubby, gts, xr8 and gtf all in mind. Just as you guys have things that mattered to you when you bought so did I.

Clearly our needs for vehicles are light years apart, ford I believe caters to people who want what I did. Holden use to but I believe they shifted their targets to other demographics.

Holden invested nothing in the areas that matter to me in VF, ford invested heaps in the areas that do. The results are what we see in front of us.

Edit: here's the white suede I was referring to
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-f...SV_RedLine.jpg

arronm · 10-01-2015, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skoobysGT

I honestly don't think SS owners are here ramming the SS down the throats of XR8 owners. I think they are just backing their brand in a Ford vs Holden thread. No SS owner has argued that the XR8 is the faster car.. They're simply saying there's more to a car then just performance and all I'm trying to get at is the XR8 may beat 91% of cars on the road but the SS isn't that far off being faster than 90% and in addition, is a much more modern and luxurious car than the Ford

also I know we are talking stock cars here but I can totally understand why someone would buy an SS over the XR8.. It's much easier to add a blower to a car then replace the entire interior/cabin of a very outdated model

Quote:

Originally Posted by skoobysGT

A lot of you guys on here think that the SS is a slow car. . Yes it may be slower than the XR8 but by no means is it slow compared to 90% of the cars you'll end up next to at the lights. Are you all forgetting that it's still a 6.0L V8? ?? Most cars on the road will be 4 cylinders without any forced induction. So I totally understand why someone would prefer a car which has enough performance to beat most cars on the road and not feel like they're sitting in a car which looks and feels a decade old. SS owners would rather feel comfortable 99% of the time than sacrifice it all for the 1% chance that they may meet an XR8 at the lights.

I am yet to see a single XR8 on the road yet let alone line up with one at the lights.

These two posts sum it up for me.

And calling safety features "toys". What are you in grade 1.

Remember lads we must only mention the positives of the Ford (driveline) and the commodore has toys but its slow.

When I stick my blower on I wont be slow, but at least i will have toys.

rancidpunx · 10-01-2015, 05:37 PM

Talking Exhausts, I will just leave this here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAEGfc9fNCk

SensationFG8 · 10-01-2015, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arronm

These two posts sum it up for me.

And calling safety features "toys". What are you in grade 1.

Remember lads we must only mention the positives of the Ford (driveline) and the commodore has toys but its slow.

When I stick my blower on I wont be slow, but at least i will have toys.

Ah the insults fly again, why is it some play the man not the ball? Let's all line up for the force feed again...

Who called safety features toys? Both cars have a 5* rating...

mtbkym01 · 10-01-2015, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skoobysGT

and the SSV will be a massive step up in performance from your Rodeo too. . So what's your point exactly?

I'm dismissing your opinion that the XR8 in "vintage" inside

Car journo's bat on about an outdated interior compared to the SSV, and so everyone else agrees. If that's your opinion, that's fine, my opinion suggests that it's not worse, just different.

Like I said, the SSV has no soul, and that's my opinion!

arronm · 10-01-2015, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

You're right Aaron, with such a small budget we should be amazed at how much of a hiding the xr8 has delivered to the SS in the engine department.

Dude they stuck a front and rear bumper on. How hard can that be.

The rest is copy and paste.

SensationFG8 · 10-01-2015, 05:49 PM

Yes keep ramming....

lucas2 · 10-01-2015, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by devoGT

It's not a low reading dyno, the SS is consistent with what SSs have pulled on other dynos. On the other hand, 286rwkw for the XR8 is extremely low, I thought they pulled 335rwkw .

Yep it seems a bit low. The engine may still be fresh. Could it be related to the new PCM or whatever they have compared to the previous model GT?

GTP534 · 10-01-2015, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skoobysGT

Again. . Horses for courses. .I think the XR8 is fugly as hell inside and out.. The GT's/GTF's look tonnes better on the outside but the interior seriously is so outdated. . The SS interior is galaxies ahead of it

No, you're wrong!

It's not "horses for courses"; you're merely stating an opinion. I wonder what sort of response I'd attract from a Holden Forum if I posted their cars were "fugly as hell".

A lot of us here don't happen to agree with your opinion.

The SSV interior, in my opinion, happens to look pretty good; the only thing I don't like is the cloth/suede trim running along in front of the passenger. I've seen lots of examples were it looks tatty after time.

My FGII (R-Spec) interior has aged well, doesn't look tatty, and has no squeaks or rattles. I'm quite happy with it. We are after all talking about a model which is essentially coming up 7 years old.

Yes, the Holdens are a lot better equipped (bells and whistles we used to call all the added features), we all know that. They mean more to some than others.

Posts like "fugly as hell" are pretty disrespectful - in my opinion of course! LOL!

As both Falcon and Commodore head out to pasture we should make the most of it!

LooLoo18 · 10-01-2015, 05:57 PM

Round & round & round we go l

skoobysGT · 10-01-2015, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

It's still a gts and still ugly as sin.

.

Funny how its okay to bag the Holden. . Yes we are in a blue forum but this thread is a Ford vs Holden one

SensationFG8 · 10-01-2015, 06:12 PM

Yep part of the point I make about not seeking out holden forums and posting these things. There is no way I would consider going to ls1 to bag holden or push ford onto them.

arronm · 10-01-2015, 06:15 PM

Look, lets all settle down.

It can be summed up in one sentence.

If you want to go fast in a straight line buy the XR8, if you want to do everything else buy the SSV.

SensationFG8 · 10-01-2015, 06:16 PM

It can't be summed up like that though as much as you'd love it to be. Even this review gave road handling to the xr8...

mtbkym01 · 10-01-2015, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arronm

Look, lets all settle down.

It can be summed up in one sentence.

If you want to go fast in a straight line buy the XR8, if you want to do everything else buy the SSV.

Hahahaha, good one

graphicgoose · 10-01-2015, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

When I was shopping (April) the ssv had black suede, the ssv redline had white suede. Perhaps they have now fixed that ;)

I wasn't implying everyone listens to their exhaust merely that it is far far superior to what the SS offers in that department.

Yeah, the MY14 had white suede in the Redline. I'll agree with you on that one, I wasn't a fan of that. Much prefer the black suede.

Agreed, the exhaust note in the GT/XR8 etc is better than the Redline...but for me, personally, I'm enjoying having a quiet daily driver that still gets up and boogies when I want to overtake or have a bit of fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

Yeah but here's the thing and possibly where you guys might consider. This is the blue forum, the subjective stuff like looks you might wanna just concede you will never convince us the SS looks nice

Honestly I don't think the interior is galaxies ahead, it is against ve, but the ve was miles behind fg. That put VF a little ahead of fgx Imo.

Having done my shopping for a new v8 earlier this year I had ssv, ssv redline, clubby, gts, xr8 and gtf all in mind. Just as you guys have things that mattered to you when you bought so did I.

Clearly our needs for vehicles are light years apart, ford I believe caters to people who want what I did. Holden use to but I believe they shifted their targets to other demographics.

Holden invested nothing in the areas that matter to me in VF, ford invested heaps in the areas that do. The results are what we see in front of us.

Edit: here's the white suede I was referring to
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-f...SV_RedLine.jpg

Personally, looking back, I don't think the VE interior is that far off the FG...stupid handbrake aside, it still looks pretty modern.

I'll agree with you that on a test drive the GT left me smiling more, with respects to the power delivery...but it's not until you've lived with a car for a while that you realise what you actually value about it every time you drive it. I loved the power of my GT...but I find my Redline much less a chore to drive. FOR ME, it's a more comfortable and modern place to be. It's quiet and doesn't have any of the rattles my GT had already started having.

I'll concede though that what you value in a daily driver is different to what I value...but as has already been said, stick a blower on the Redline and it's got literally the whole package.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

Ah the insults fly again, why is it some play the man not the ball? Let's all line up for the force feed again...

Who called safety features toys? Both cars have a 5* rating...

People see the forward collision alert, lane departure warning and the blind spot indicator "toys", but they're actually safety features which have nothing to do with the 5* ANCAP rating...which is purely to do with crash testing. Sure, most of us can drive just fine without them but they're nice to have to save you in those brain fade moments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

Yep part of the point I make about not seeking out holden forums and posting these things. There is no way I would consider going to ls1 to bag holden or push ford onto them.

We've been there and done that. There's a few of us from the various Ford forums on some of the commodore forums debating Ford vs Holden, and maybe the odd post aside, it's been pretty civilised and the Holden boys openly admit the Miami is a good thing...yet here you can't seem to admit that the SSV has it good points which, although don't matter to you, are in fact BETTER than the offering from Ford...

SensationFG8 · 10-01-2015, 06:34 PM

Read the very first post made in the thread goose, I also don't think I've argued with some of the "better" things, just the subjective things that can't be measured. I think by and large there has actually been plenty of civilized conversation in this thread.

Because some seek out conflict with the reds doesn't make it right either! I respect their right to enjoy their product in peace.

Sticking a blower on red line doesn't make it the whole package you've just added significant cost.

The whole package still needs to fit in a budget. I think you'd be surprised what a custom shop could do to an interior with 12-15k if you dont like it (I personally do as do others here)

graphicgoose · 10-01-2015, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

Read the very first post made in the thread goose, I also don't think I've argued with some of the "better" things, just the subjective things that can't be measured. I think by and large there has actually been plenty of civilized conversation in this thread.

Because some seek out conflict with the reds doesn't make it right either! I respect their right to enjoy their product in peace.

Sticking a blower on red line doesn't make it the whole package you've just added significant cost.

The whole package still needs to fit in a budget. I think you'd be surprised what a custom shop could do to an interior with 12-15k if you dont like it (I personally do as do others here)

Those of us who've bought Holden's don't come on here and bag out your car choice or come into general threads and say we think your cars are crap. The only threads I've commented on the differences between the two are in the XR8 vs. SSV threads, in which we've discussed the pros and cons of each.

Yep, and if guys can pick up an SSV Redline for low to mid $50k's then bolt a blower on it's still putting it ballpark of the price some guys are paying for XR8's...and less than what some Ford dealers are asking for them. Yet it would then have more power also. Before Hulk gets in here starts talking about warranty, that's not my point.

Chopped · 10-01-2015, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

.... ford invested heaps in the areas that do. The results are what we see in front of us.

Hhhmmm I'm not so sure about. Performance wise they haven't really invested anything with the FGX XR8. It's all the carry over GT stuff (nothing new) but somehow it is slower than the FPVs which had the same gear.

We all knew the GT could flog an SSV (& Clubsports) so it really isn't a surprise that the XR8 would do the same.

What Ford did do brilliantly was the price.

arronm · 10-01-2015, 06:53 PM

They bought the price in line with the SSV redline. BUT trying buying one for that.

First one I enquired about was 75K. Thats retail + ripoff

Walk into any holden dealer and I guarantee you will drive away with a SSV redline at less than retail.

SensationFG8 · 10-01-2015, 06:54 PM

Yeah I would say your post is true for yourself and skoob and a few others. I think you can forgive us for thinking differently of others.

I think you by and large have phrased your opinions quite well goose. But "better package" van only be awarded when someone defines what is required to be in a package.

How much is a blower plus full exhaust and tune on the SS?
2k tune?
10k blower?
4k exhaust?

50k base plus 16k mods... but it's pointless going this path, we can really only compare stock for stock easily.

Pretty sure I said the interior was slightly better and that they have built a nice little track car. If you don't consider that being reasonable *shrug* not much I can do.

Chopped, the Miami was still a 40 mil investment even if it was a few years ago. what was the last investment holden made on the ss engine?

Aaron that perhaps shows you the demand for these cars is in fact strong regardless of them not being what you would want...

mtbkym01 · 10-01-2015, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arronm

They bought the price in line with the SSV redline. BUT trying buying one for that.

First one I enquired about was 75K. Thats retail + ripoff

Walk into any holden dealer and I guarantee you will drive away with a SSV redline at less than retail.

It's simple really, Supply and demand

Don't think anyone has really paid anything like $75K though, at least I know I haven't. Don't blame the car for business's trying to maximise

2242100 · 10-01-2015, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rancidpunx

The SS is in the right ball park, maybe a touch under but the XR8 is quiet a way off what it should be if we are assuming that it is exactly the same as the GT. Anything under 310 is considered to be a lower figure and 330+ on the high side for a GT. Mine ran up 320rwkw and a GTF 330rwkw as a comparison. My XR6T ute made 252rwkw at the same shop when I had it. Could Ford have taken out some of the overboost for the XR8 compared to the GT? 335kw all the time as the GT but only 5% overboost extra in the right conditions rather than the 15% we know about. The fact the SS is about right shows the XR8 is either making less power than the FG GT's or something is not quiet right when it was strapped down. We need some time to see privately owned cars to start showing up on the rollers.

I asked Dyno Dynamics a couple of years ago how much they expected a car to lose on their Dyno's and I understand it was around 50 kW for a car like a manual SS Commodore and 2 or 3% more for an Auto, so say about 57 for an Auto Commodore. With that in mind this Dyno looks pretty spot on for the Holden.

But when it comes to the XR8 I'd expect that it might be harder to control slip (I think they said something about aborting a couple of runs when the XR8 strained the shackles).

As far as straight line performance is concerned, I haven't seen an XR 8 perform too well yet, but looking back at road tests of the GT, their was only one test that I can recall where we actually saw the cars true capabilities, and that was in the October 2012 Wheels test of the RSPEC, which was published quite a while after the GT was released.

So it will be interesting to see what people start getting at the strip and on the Dyno's.

But perhaps you could be right about less overboost.

By the way, what was the type of Dyno that your XR6 T and RSPEC were tested on and was your Turbo a manual or an Auto.

LASTXR · 10-01-2015, 07:33 PM

At the end, a true Ford tragic (like me)
will buy a Falcon &
a true Holden one will buy the Commodore
no matter what the other car has or hasn't
or does this better then that.

**PepeLePew** · 10-01-2015, 07:39 PM

Threads like this always become frustrating....it's difficult when posters have invested their hard earned and their hearts in their rides on both sides, and criticism even when well versed can lead to endlessly repeated arguments with no winners. Lets try and bleed the emotion out of it and stick to the topic before the thread just fades away....and sometimes, just accept your opinions aren't shared by others.

BENT_8 · 10-01-2015, 08:13 PM

Anyhow, if I might bring something to the table regarding the Dyno discrepancies.

Who remembers the GTF Dyno where they ran it around 8 times before getting a final figure.
That figure was down on what Ford expected so they sent their tech's to get it right.

Fast forward to the XR8 and we have a similar result, the XR8 is down on power.
Re read the original article, it says that they had trouble keeping the XR8 on the rollers, so by the time they got it right it had been run a number of times.

See any similarities here?

It would appear that if the Miami is run under anything but perfect conditions or more than once it drops its peak power.

Could this be the case, considering the two separate poor results from the Miami came after continuous runs.

Blue Roo · 10-01-2015, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Anyhow, if I might bring something to the table regarding the Dyno discrepancies.

Who remembers the GTF Dyno where they ran it around 8 times before getting a final figure.
That figure was down on what Ford expected so they sent their tech's to get it right.

Fast forward to the XR8 and we have a similar result, the XR8 is down on power.
Re read the original article, it says that they had trouble keeping the XR8 on the rollers, so by the time they got it right it had been run a number of times.

See any similarities here?

It would appear that if the Miami is run under anything but perfect conditions or more than once it drops its peak power.

Could this be the case, considering the two separate poor results from the Miami came after continuous runs.

This is why you need to use a Hub Dyno, to get rid of the so called "Dyno Discrepancies", and get a true/accurate result.

Blue Roo · 10-01-2015, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graphicgoose

Those of us who've bought Holden's don't come on here and bag out your car choice or come into general threads and say we think your cars are crap. The only threads I've commented on the differences between the two are in the XR8 vs. SSV threads, in which we've discussed the pros and cons of each.

Yep, and if guys can pick up an SSV Redline for low to mid $50k's then bolt a blower on it's still putting it ballpark of the price some guys are paying for XR8's...and less than what some Ford dealers are asking for them. Yet it would then have more power also. Before Hulk gets in here starts talking about warranty, that's not my point.

Hey Graphicgoose!
We should team up and write a sitcom for TV. It's called Everybody Loves Hulk! NOT!

duaned · 10-01-2015, 08:42 PM

So who's game to fit a Miami in a SSV Commodore? That would be the Ultimate in motoring!

SensationFG8 · 10-01-2015, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Anyhow, if I might bring something to the table regarding the Dyno discrepancies.

Who remembers the GTF Dyno where they ran it around 8 times before getting a final figure.
That figure was down on what Ford expected so they sent their tech's to get it right.

Fast forward to the XR8 and we have a similar result, the XR8 is down on power.
Re read the original article, it says that they had trouble keeping the XR8 on the rollers, so by the time they got it right it had been run a number of times.

See any similarities here?

It would appear that if the Miami is run under anything but perfect conditions or more than once it drops its peak power.

Could this be the case, considering the two separate poor results from the Miami came after continuous runs.

Not really because the retest of the gtf pulled its highest power on the 9th run... Even on hot days so far I haven't felt the power fall off.

No one explained that first gtf dyno the people involved let it silently slip away.