The real GTS-R for Melborne

[BadMac]

Originally Posted by Fordoldie

Interesting..
They all do and the more you spend the more you lose

In NZ, BMW's (and any Euro) have shocking depeciation from new. Aussie is not quite as bad

And just to prove your point, how would you like to be this owner.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/List...x?id=140413128

E60 M5 (V10). RRP NZD$ 225,900

Option it right up, own it 18 months, drive it 2100Km.
And its back on the yard. Asking Price NZD $144,900.
Retained value 64%. Absolute loss $81,000. Or a F6 for him plus a Suzuki Swift for her.

Or perhaps you'd prefer to lose your money over 2.5 years.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Mo...-137505522.htm

Total lost so far $112900 if he gets a top offer.
Soon he will have lost more than the GTS-W427 will cost.

[strik9]

glad i just spent 25grand on mods. aleast if i have a play with one. he will look like the di$k. not so sure if your got the stocker. / you may look pretty ordinary.lol

[ltd]

Originally Posted by BadMac

So you are saying that nobody has yet placed a deposit on the FG FPV's as Ford are not taking deposits due to the legal implications (Mental note to Ring Fairviews on Monday and ask how many deposits there holding on GT/GTP's)? By the way the deposits are not held by Holden/HSV/Ford etc, but by the dealer, so HSV has no liability, just like with the stillborn GTS-R where 80 firm deposits were being held by dealers for the 50 cars, all were returned.

P.S. I personally know 2 people who have paid $10k deposits for the GTR-W (or what ever its called) sight and final specs unseen (I spoke to one today who is over the moon, he will be in Melborne on Monday and will check it out in person). He also previously ordered a Blueprinted GTS-R (the VS one) sight unseen for NZD $116k, he's trading his 7 month old GTS on it. Previous to his GTS he had an M5. He also has a 997 and his wife drives a beat up old Suzuki 4WD (go figure!).

And even though I know what you mean, i'll pull you up anyway. Are you suggesting that eveybody with a phase 3 are dreaming asking for more than $100k?

You missed the point entirely.
As for the phase 3, would you spend a million on one?

[BadMac]

Originally Posted by ltd

You missed the point entirely.
As for the phase 3, would you spend a million on one?

I personally wouldn't spend $100k on one, but I can appreciate why others do.

And No I didn't miss the point. "With deposits being paid on a product that is not yet finalised, the company receiving the deposit is often placed in an actionable position should it fail to meet any of the implied or agreed specifications of the product".

The FPV range is NOT YET Finalised, in fact we know more about the W427 (I looked up the real name!!!) than we do about the FPV (Wheels?, Power outputs?, GT-E look?, etc). Hasn't stopped Ford dealers accepting deposits.

[pitpal]

Whats HSV goin to do if the F6 keeps up with this fugly car? I know il be laughin, and so will FPV

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Fordoldie

By the way there are no new German 4 door sedans with that much power for $150k. There is no anything.. Hmmm maybe they are onto something.

Yes there is, the C63 AMG. Less than 150k and it would kill this gimp of a HSV any place, anytime. The M3 sedan and RS 4 are quicker too.

Being between 125-150k puts this thing in the same price bracket as a Boxster S, Nissan GTR, BMW M3 and Audi RS4, and any of them would kill it on the road and on the track.

Judging by its hardly any faster than a GTS time all the extra power is probably just wasted in wheelspin.

[Steffo]

Ugly car. Not a bad motor for it though. The article is wrong, the HSV won't be close to being Australia's fastest ever car. That title belongs to the Elfin Clubman MS8. Unless the HSV is gonna do mid-low 11s down the quarter, mid-high 3s to 100km/h and surpass 300, the Elfin holds onto its crown with ease.

370kW @ 6300rpm, 640Nm @ 4800rpm, 7000rpm redline. Gotta love it!

Now if FPV had brains and balls, in response they'd yank the 500hp 480ftlb (373kW 650Nm) 5.4litre Supercharged V8 from the Shelby Cobra GT500, stick it in a Falcon engine bay and revive the GT-P name, with P being "Performance." No HO, since people will just be disappointed.

Who's with me... 373kW FG FPV GT-P??!?

[Need_a_V8]

Originally Posted by marcosambrose

Oh well the verdict is still out on this thing, just like the KISS inspired FPVs...

Whoever said depreciation will kill this car was right, my guess is 50 % in 3 years.

They only want to build 4 a week, and hand build them once they're at the HSV factory.

They will be a very exclusive car which will keep the value higher. Just like the original Walkinshaw, or the SV5000's or the VN Group A which are all worth more now than when they were released... This car will hold its value well (though not quite as well as those mentioned, much better than an ordinary HSV).

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Yes there is, the C63 AMG. Less than 150k and it would kill this gimp of a HSV any place, anytime. The M3 sedan and RS 4 are quicker too.

Being between 125-150k puts this thing in the same price bracket as a Boxster S, Nissan GTR, BMW M3 and Audi RS4, and any of them would kill it on the road and on the track.

Judging by its hardly any faster than a GTS time all the extra power is probably just wasted in wheelspin.

Audi RS4 is $164,500, new M3 is $160k+, what makes you think the C63 will be any cheaper when it hits our shores?

Don't bet on the C63 being faster then the W427. 336kW/600Nm vs 370kW/640Nm and very similar weight (yes, the C63 is a porker). The C63's have been doing high 12s (12.7-12.9) down the quarter, making them more of a match for F6 Typhoon's and GTS 307's. C63 would be a W427's play-thing.

Wanna know why the C63 "sucks?" Because it would hose its bigger-bro E63 at everything if they let it perform the way it could, so the factory deliberately neuters it.

[Need_a_V8]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Yes there is, the C63 AMG. Less than 150k and it would kill this gimp of a HSV any place, anytime. The M3 sedan and RS 4 are quicker too.

Being between 125-150k puts this thing in the same price bracket as a Boxster S, Nissan GTR, BMW M3 and Audi RS4, and any of them would kill it on the road and on the track.

Judging by its hardly any faster than a GTS time all the extra power is probably just wasted in wheelspin.

He said with that much power...370kw.

BMW M3 is 309kw, 400NM of torque.

An M5 is a very close match, 372kw 520NM, 0-100km/h in 4.5 seconds (the V8 M3 is quicker than the M5 though).

The RS4 is 309kw and 430NM. 0-100 is 4.8 seconds, so the RS4 is slower than a W427.

And on a track, the W427 will be a weapon. It has a much better suspension setup especially for track work compared to the GTS, as well as new MRC calibration. Also, the standard GTS has better braking abilities than a Lamborghini... The W427's brakes are insane, 6 piston fronts...380mm front rotors... 350mm rear rotors... It wont be a slow track car.

[kpcart]

Originally Posted by ltd

I'm not making a remark on the engine perse', I'm commenting on the fact that it is just a commodore with a bigger engine and an ugly body kit, and the media are feigning over it like the second coming of christ.
My mention of the Bugatti in contrast was to illustrate that their 7 litre engine may be nice but this is what someone else did with 8 litres; a feat of engineering this is. Also, the numbers on the Bugatti are staggering, the weight of the engine is reputedly a little less than the Holden 7 litre corvette engine. It is manufacturers like Bugatti who set the benchmark on technology that eventually trickles down to the less exotic. As for other engines, the Ferrari 612 Scaglietti has over 550hp from 6 litres, the ford GT has the same from 5.4 with a supercharger on it, the SLR has 612 from a 5.5 litre with a supercharger etc. GM aren't in the same league when it comes to engines, as they are still in the old bigger displacement = bigger power mindset rather than the "lets wrangle more power out of this thing" mindset. One final thing, when people refer to gas guzzlers they are always referring to holdens, fords and 4wds. You never hear any of the more exotic being mentioned even when some of them have over twice the fuel burn as say a falcon. Ever wonder why?

your retarded comparing bugatti to hsv, veyron is a $2.7 million car, hsv is a $.0125 million.
This is a fantastic thing for the australian market. the engine is fantastic (better stats then a 'heavier' bmw v10 in the m5, and with basic pushrod system). a merc clk black series from amg has a 6.2L motor, has similar to this hsv, (373kw v 370kw, 637nm v 640nm) yet this hsv still cost much less. and the VE chassis is quite descent, this is going to be a great car.

Car companies cant just drop in a big motor to lift performance (some people here are comparing hsv to backyard modders who drop big engines in there bogan car). there are many other variables associated, especially that they have to make money from the product, so its congratulations to hsv for putting this car on the market, obviosly ford cant do this at this stage, they are losing sales all the time, and making a 7 litre ford at this stage could be a do or die manouver for ford in much the same way mitsubishi built the 380.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Need_a_V8

He said with that much power...370kw.

BMW M3 is 309kw, 400NM of torque.

An M5 is a very close match, 372kw 520NM, 0-100km/h in 4.5 seconds (the V8 M3 is quicker than the M5 though).

The RS4 is 309kw and 430NM. 0-100 is 4.8 seconds, so the RS4 is slower than a W427.

M5 is faster then the new M3 in a straight line. 4.1 sec 0-100 and 12.4 1/4 for the M5. 4.4 and 12.7 for the RS4. 4.2 and 12.5 for the M3. M3 beats the M5 around corners.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by pitpal

Whats HSV goin to do if the F6 keeps up with this fugly car? I know il be laughin, and so will FPV

Lol, as has been stated elsewhere, F6 will most likely have more torque (with overboost) than the WD40 and I wouldn't be surprised if it did get close... and if it did get close, people would wonder why they need to spend an extra $50-60K for not much gain...

If this truly is $125K (if/when they release it) then I'm not sure it'll sell well. Other problem is they seem to have the styling wrong since its being pitched as an all-out weapon yet, it doesn't give me that impression when looking at it...

It seems HSV think people (with that much to spend) have accepted VE as being a true Euro competitor, something they thought when the $100K VT2 GTS was released...

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Slightly off topic, i had a look at the Corvette this engine belongs too, it's VERY fast.
Even in a Commodore this thing is gonna fly, and the fact it will do it stock with warranty is what impresses me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S7xbxuaXrA

I thought the ZR-1 (like the one in this clip) had the 6.2L supercharged LS9???

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

I was talking to a "friend" in the know, he saw a developmental model on a chassis dyno, said it made over 315rwkw bog stock.

And if it does have the LS9, was this fella referring to it as having that much power? Or the 7.0L LS7???

Originally Posted by kpcart

your retarded comparing bugatti to hsv, veyron is a $2.7 million car, hsv is a $.0125 million.

I think you've missed the context of his post... never mind, he'll be back in the morning to give you a reaming...

[Steffo]

I don't see how a 7.0litre OHV 16-valve Pushrod V8 that is naturally aspirated and retails for $12,999 US in a crate for anyone to buy is comparable to an 8.0litre DOHC 64-valve W16 Quad-Turbo that probably costs more then most people will ever pay for a car to buy...

Oh wait, finding an excuse to bad Holden? :

[BadMac]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Lol, as has been stated elsewhere, F6 will most likely have more torque (with overboost) than the WD40 and I wouldn't be surprised if it did get close... and if it did get close, people would wonder why they need to spend an extra $50-60K for not much gain...

The F6 will be 300Kw with 560Nm, over boast adds 20-30Kw (depending on atmospheric conditions) for a very short time (the Gearbox isn't rated high enough) and weighs slightly more than in BF guise. So what makes you think it will beat a 370KW, 640Nm purpose designed street/track car with 18 months further development on its MRC and hand built in small numbers? Oh thats right because its got he Ford badge at the front (oh no they deleted that too!).

What HSV have built is an aspirational car, very few can afford it, many will lust after it (not ME, but anyway. i'd take the engine). It allows them to show off their engineering prowess and shows they respond to customers. What has FPV done, they put some black eyes on the BF(III) and some new stickers (yes I am frustrated at Ford/FPV, I really wanted something special this time, especially in the F6! as the last hoo rar for the best I6 ever, IMHO).

[BadMac]

Originally Posted by Steffo

I don't see how a 7.0litre OHV 16-valve Pushrod V8 that is naturally aspirated and retails for $12,999 US in a crate for anyone to buy is comparable to an 8.0litre DOHC 64-valve W16 Quad-Turbo that probably costs more then most people will ever pay for a car to buy...

Oh wait, finding an excuse to bad Holden? :

All that high tech modern W16 quad over head crome plated wipers and such and it only produces 1001HP (from an equivalant of 13litres, using a 1.6 multiplier for Turbo).

Makes the old push rod seam antiquated, only 505HP from 7 litres at 1/10 the cost. Veyron is still a stunning acheivement and shows considerable!!!!! technical prowess.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by ltd

No, it's not a worthless comparison because the Veyron is at the show and the crappodore is being billed as the most remarkable piece of engineering there. This is extremely one sided and bias especially when the rest of the world recognises that the veyron is the "concorde moment" in engineering.

I get you now, but at the end of the day this HSV has more relevance to the Aussie public than some x.x million dollar supercar that I can count how many owners it will find on two hands. Those reporting on the MMS are a bunch of lefty green loving journos at heart so a V16 quad turbo wouldn't go down well with them anyway.
But do you really think its bias to just this car? The Aussie motoring journos have been doing this as far as I can remember, undeservingly over hyping and over rating both Fords and Holdens ever since I've been flicking thru a Motor or Wheels mag (more so to Holden/HSV). How many times have you seen a Holden or Ford on the front cover when on the following pages there is something more deserving, significant from japan or Europe that is cover material... Yeah I know its to do with sales, and the poms and yanks do it to their own as well, but look at the big picture if you're gonna take some blows at this HSV. I'm not complaining about the attention it has reveived on the engine alone... good on em.

[Falcon Coupe]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

I thought the ZR-1 (like the one in this clip) had the 6.2L supercharged LS9???


And if it does have the LS9, was this fella referring to it as having that much power? Or the 7.0L LS7???

The dyno was the 7.0 commodore, I may have my wires crossed with the Corvette's engine, my bad.

[Fordoldie]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Yes there is, the C63 AMG. Less than 150k and it would kill this gimp of a HSV any place, anytime. The M3 sedan and RS 4 are quicker too.

Being between 125-150k puts this thing in the same price bracket as a Boxster S, Nissan GTR, BMW M3 and Audi RS4, and any of them would kill it on the road and on the track.

Judging by its hardly any faster than a GTS time all the extra power is probably just wasted in wheelspin.

?? New CLK 63 Coupe AMG 6.2 litre V8 354kw $212,386 on showroom floor
The rest are smallish AWD or two door sports cars and in no way shape or form remotely similar but I would have the new GTR over any of them

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by BadMac

The F6 will be 300Kw with 560Nm, over boast adds 20-30Kw (depending on atmospheric conditions) for a very short time (the Gearbox isn't rated high enough) and weighs slightly more than in BF guise. So what makes you think it will beat a 370KW, 640Nm purpose designed street/track car with 18 months further development on its MRC and hand built in small numbers? Oh thats right because its got he Ford badge at the front (oh no they deleted that too!).

300kW/560Nm is closer to what the BF F6 had, more than what was stated
on its badge (as proven by many dyno runs). I suspect FG F6 would have the
same "under rated" figure... only one way to find out how much faster the
W.ank24/7 will be... both cars, same day, same track.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by BadMac

The F6 will be 300Kw with 560Nm, over boast adds 20-30Kw (depending on atmospheric conditions) for a very short time (the Gearbox isn't rated high enough) and weighs slightly more than in BF guise. So what makes you think it will beat a 370KW, 640Nm purpose designed street/track car with 18 months further development on its MRC and hand built in small numbers? Oh thats right because its got he Ford badge at the front (oh no they deleted that too!).

What HSV have built is an aspirational car, very few can afford it, many will lust after it (not ME, but anyway. i'd take the engine). It allows them to show off their engineering prowess and shows they respond to customers. What has FPV done, they put some black eyes on the BF(III) and some new stickers (yes I am frustrated at Ford/FPV, I really wanted something special this time, especially in the F6! as the last hoo rar for the best I6 ever, IMHO).

I enjoy reading your posts but every now and then you have a brain explosion in retaliation that really isn't warranted.

I think you will find the F6 will be a special car.
How you know the gearbox isn't rated high enough or the engine specs on a technical reveal that simply hasn't occurred yet is beyond me. Has something occurred on a global scale that makes two wrongs equal a right?

As for appearance, black eyes are better than a bloody nose and mouth are they? It’s amusing that people are picking on styling treatments on each brand while each is virtually exhibiting variations of the same. It’s not doing anyone's credibility any good.

HSV well I have certainly gone on record as saying I very much approve of the way they are going about their business. Special cars built to order is a method of production that I have favoured for a long time so I will be keen to follow its success. It really places emphasis on the product and I like the confidence HSV have in the project to say it will be relevant for more than a short digestion period where it’s simply more than a grab for sails and money. Unlike another performance arm that is.

HSV are investing in technology after spending the first 18 years of their existence being a poor imitation of innovation. They now live up to the potential that market leadership in this segment requires. That is the biggest compliment I can pay HSV. They are doing the things I wish FPV could do or at least once again find the vision to attempt.

Badmac. In having said all that there is one inescapable caveat. Do HSV have the balls to make the LS3 as good as it can be. It can get to 328 and nearly 580 with active exhaust the same active exhaust as is likely fitment to the 427. You tell me how that move will impact on the 427.

You have the GT with 320 and 565 or there abouts, the F6 with 300 and 580 or there abouts, far more than just a black eye or a stripe package! The value in the 70 to 80 k range as never been better or soon will be. If the W427 price extends much past 125k in light of this competition then it won’t be long for this world and with it, will end many a Halo project. The time of these projects is critical. They need to capture the absolute most exposure time before movement from within, and preferably even from the competition eats into the headline act. A complete package these cars maybe, but it is the engine numbers people see the most.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by smoo

I get you now, but at the end of the day this HSV has more relevance to the Aussie public than some x.x million dollar supercar that I can count how many owners it will find on two hands. Those reporting on the MMS are a bunch of lefty green loving journos at heart so a V16 quad turbo wouldn't go down well with them anyway.
But do you really think its bias to just this car? The Aussie motoring journos have been doing this as far as I can remember, undeservingly over hyping and over rating both Fords and Holdens ever since I've been flicking thru a Motor or Wheels mag (more so to Holden/HSV). How many times have you seen a Holden or Ford on the front cover when on the following pages there is something more deserving, significant from japan or Europe that is cover material... Yeah I know its to do with sales, and the poms and yanks do it to their own as well, but look at the big picture if you're gonna take some blows at this HSV. I'm not complaining about the attention it has reveived on the engine alone... good on em.

You touched on some great points there and I agree with you.
My gripe is with the fact that Holden have made another VE commodore and stuck some go fat bits in it working the media into a lather, yet ford has made a whole new series of cars and don't rate a mention on the electronic media.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by kpcart

your retarded comparing bugatti to hsv, veyron is a $2.7 million car, hsv is a $.0125 million.
This is a fantastic thing for the australian market. the engine is fantastic (better stats then a 'heavier' bmw v10 in the m5, and with basic pushrod system). a merc clk black series from amg has a 6.2L motor, has similar to this hsv, (373kw v 370kw, 637nm v 640nm) yet this hsv still cost much less. and the VE chassis is quite descent, this is going to be a great car.

Car companies cant just drop in a big motor to lift performance (some people here are comparing hsv to backyard modders who drop big engines in there bogan car). there are many other variables associated, especially that they have to make money from the product, so its congratulations to hsv for putting this car on the market, obviosly ford cant do this at this stage, they are losing sales all the time, and making a 7 litre ford at this stage could be a do or die manouver for ford in much the same way mitsubishi built the 380.

Wow, here I was thinking that I had attained great success in my life after many years of hard work and sacrifice only to have it all undone by some troll saying "your retarded". Not for nothing, but I think you'll find it's "you're" which is another way of saying "you are". The hyphen is put in place of the letter you are removing from the two words when forming them together. Also, not to be nitpicking but “descent” actually means to descend, or to go lower; I believe the word you were looking for there was “decent”

Obviously (note spelling, there is a U in it), you didn't pay as much attention at school as you should have. For if you did, you would know that $.0125 million is in fact $12,500; and not the $0.125 million or $125,000 that this car is going to cost. Frankly, based on your track record I find your opinions to be so myopically biased that they hold no significant value for anyone, and judging by your almost unintelligible comment I respectfully submit that a battle of wit with an unarmed man such as yourself is pointless. Finally, if that doesn't make sense to you then perhaps this will; I could care what someone of your demographic thinks, but I'm far too successful for that.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Audi RS4 is $164,500, new M3 is $160k+, what makes you think the C63 will be any cheaper when it hits our shores?

Don't bet on the C63 being faster then the W427. 336kW/600Nm vs 370kW/640Nm and very similar weight (yes, the C63 is a porker). The C63's have been doing high 12s (12.7-12.9) down the quarter, making them more of a match for F6 Typhoon's and GTS 307's. C63 would be a W427's play-thing.

Wanna know why the C63 "sucks?" Because it would hose its bigger-bro E63 at everything if they let it perform the way it could, so the factory deliberately neuters it.

Mercedes have already said the C63 will undercut the M3 buy a bit of a margin.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Need_a_V8

He said with that much power...370kw.

BMW M3 is 309kw, 400NM of torque.

An M5 is a very close match, 372kw 520NM, 0-100km/h in 4.5 seconds (the V8 M3 is quicker than the M5 though).

The RS4 is 309kw and 430NM. 0-100 is 4.8 seconds, so the RS4 is slower than a W427.

And on a track, the W427 will be a weapon. It has a much better suspension setup especially for track work compared to the GTS, as well as new MRC calibration. Also, the standard GTS has better braking abilities than a Lamborghini... The W427's brakes are insane, 6 piston fronts...380mm front rotors... 350mm rear rotors... It wont be a slow track car.

So a GTS brakes better than a Lambo hey, thats hilarious. :

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Fordoldie

?? New CLK 63 Coupe AMG 6.2 litre V8 354kw $212,386 on showroom floor
The rest are smallish AWD or two door sports cars and in no way shape or form remotely similar but I would have the new GTR over any of them

I said C63, not CLK63. Different cars.

M3 will soon be available as a 4 door sedan, and the RS4 is also a sedan, wagon and convertable.

[BadMac]

Originally Posted by HSE2

I enjoy reading your posts but every now and then you have a brain explosion in retaliation that really isn't warranted.

Thanks for the comments :voldar02: , The ZF as used by Ford/FPV is rated at 600NM (yes modified cars exceed this, but Ford need to Warrenty it). The Higher rated (650NM??) one is too expensive (read adds too much to the base cars costs).

As for the F6 and its ratings, I wanted the F6 to be special, but FPV have placed it as poor cousin to the GT/P/E range (again). The 300Kw rating (I am told this is accurate this time) would suggest they simply came clean about the real rating for the 270F6. I know some refinement work has gone on, but the I6T did not get the money spent it deserved.

As for the retaliation comment.
The post was

F6 will most likely have more torque (with overboost) than the WD40

All I pointed out was the W427's rated output and intended use (and the lack of a Ford badge in the new range of Falcon Performance Vehicles ).

So what makes you think it will beat a 370KW, 640Nm purpose designed street/track car with 18 months further development on its MRC and hand built in small numbers

Yeah after that I made a couple of comments, but in my defense I believe them (although having reread them, I would like to point out I meant aspirational/inspiration etc, in the context of Holden/HSV's.

[DJM83]

IMO i think it looks good a damn sight better the the current E series HSV'. Good to see them getting something on the market for the people that want a hardcore aussie V8 roadcar. Looks towards the next FPV stripe package

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Steffo

M5 is faster then the new M3 in a straight line. 4.1 sec 0-100 and 12.4 1/4 for the M5. 4.4 and 12.7 for the RS4. 4.2 and 12.5 for the M3. M3 beats the M5 around corners.

Go wheels magazine, sure your names not Ged 'Pulmer'

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by BadMac

Thanks for the comments :voldar02: , The ZF as used by Ford/FPV is rated at 600NM (yes modified cars exceed this, but Ford need to Warrenty it). The Higher rated (650NM??) one is too expensive (read adds too much to the base cars costs).

And my point is how do you know FPV haven't upgraded the ZF box? Where is the press release saying as much?

You know that the next box is too expensive yet you don’t know the torque rating? In other words you are guessing.

It makes you as bad as the people making technical assumptions on the 427.

Have you forgotten that FPV are using a specific clutch pack option on the ZF 6HP26. Ford seems to have had no issue with the 6HP26 in Landrovers producing 640nm.

You need to stop listening to the people talking to you. Where is the LS3 announcement? That was a lock wasn't it!

You are talking about engine development that hasn't been released. Ok let’s hear it. What changes have been made to the I6T in the F6 and what did it miss out on that it deserved?

I certainly have no idea so the facts that you have on the F6 will certainly be interesting to at least me.

Like I said two wrongs don’t make a right. Defending products on paper is child’s play and stupid considering how much is unknown.