Wheels COTY

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by auslandau

If it was a good move they would have swapped the G6ET for a Honda Accord ..... they lost a great car to get a car not as good as a Honda?

Good move!

And you need an LSD in the G6ET for what reason??

RS4 not as good as a Honda Accord!!! bahahahahahaha

***t man put the needle away

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by auslandau

And you need an LSD in the G6ET for what reason??

Driving satisfaction. If you need to ask what difference it makes then obviously it makes no difference to you but it does to many.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by auslandau

If it was a good move they would have swapped the G6ET for a Honda Accord ..... they lost a great car to get a car not as good as a Honda?

Good move!

And you need an LSD in the G6ET for what reason??

Im driving a G6E at the moment and it needs a LSD, especially in the wet. I can only imagine how bad a T would be

[4Vman]

99% of people "think" they need LSD... because they just do right? because they were told they need one, the fact is most people couldn't and don't drive a car hard enough to tell the difference, and certainly not in a legal way, and DSC/TC take care of allot of the old problems that single diffs create.
The vast majority of people looking for that last few % of "drivability" choose a sports model like the XR6T/XR8 or F6/GT...
While LSD would be a "nice to have" option on a G6ET i doubt many actually need it.

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Im driving a G6E at the moment and it needs a LSD, especially in the wet. I can only imagine how bad a T would be

Mate you sure have that wrong, the BF XR8 I had before the G6ET was soo much harder to drive in the wet. I suggest there must be something wrong with that particular G6E if it's bad in the wet because my G6ET is as easy as anything.

4VMAN is right, many think they need LSD but don't really, I was concerned before getting the G6ET but it's proven to me I am better off without LSD for the driving I do. Should it be an option, of course!

Re Wheels, I won't be buying the mag any time soon, best way to protest their bias is not give them money.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Mate you sure have that wrong, the BF XR8 I had before the G6ET was soo much harder to drive in the wet. I suggest there must be something wrong with that particular G6E if it's bad in the wet because my G6ET is as easy as anything.

4VMAN is right, many think they need LSD but don't really, I was concerned before getting the G6ET but it's proven to me I am better off without LSD for the driving I do. Should it be an option, of course!

Re Wheels, I won't be buying the mag any time soon, best way to protest their bias is not give them money.

Had similar experiences, LSD equipped vehicles tended to step out easier than single spinners on wet or slippery corners for obvious reasons, a GOOD or experienced driver can use the throttle to control this, (as well as TC) a novice or inexperienced driver will get caught out.
Lets be honest, lsd will provide better straight line traction and "drive" at the upper limits of acceleration where traction is an issue, but its not the be all that some make it out to be...

[XR8putts]

Exactly, this is the last straw for me. Wheels will not be getting another cent out of me, TopGear & Autocar NZ will now be the only two magazines I buy every month.

[Paxton]

Traditionally, the Wheels Magazines have a full page photo of the winner, combined with a photo and other bits and pieces. The current (February) edition has a photo of the new "Torana", and another picture of Falcon with the tagline - SHOCK, why Falcon's not CAR of the YEAR [sic].

They are not only ashamed of the car that won, but are guilty of the result. I had already cancelled my subscription, however one arrived today. This will be the last Wheels Magazine that I ever buy. Amazing, that this year, no Holden was eligible, however they still have the front page of the magazine.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

99% of people "think" they need LSD... because they just do right? because they were told they need one, the fact is most people couldn't and don't drive a car hard enough to tell the difference, and certainly not in a legal way, and DSC/TC take care of allot of the old problems that single diffs create.
The vast majority of people looking for that last few % of "drivability" choose a sports model like the XR6T/XR8 or F6/GT...
While LSD would be a "nice to have" option on a G6ET i doubt many actually need it.

True. The apparent reason my AU Fairmont Ghia doesn't have LSD is because of the introduction of traction control.

However I will say that I have found my XE with LSD a hell of a lot easier to control in the wet (even though the XE doesn't have power steering). For a number of reasons such as the IRS and overassisted steering the AU is very easy to overcorrect.

My XE I have had at impossible angles down the road and have found that with LSD you can pretty much steer by the throttle.

On a different note I think more people need to drive LSD cars. Too many people have shown me their "tight doughies" in single spinner cars (on private property) which compared to a LSD feel like your just driving around in circles.

[red_xr4]

That the FG Falcon didn't make the top four is, for me, insulting. This is so typical of Wheels magazine, who made sure the VE Commodore won a few years back. And Honda Accord winning? What a joke, I'd take the Mazda 6 any day of the week over that wannabe Audi.

[marksxr8]

well N.Z got it right fg falcon named car of the year here, heres a bit of a right up from one mag

http://www.autotrader.co.nz/View/Art...d=1198116DAC10

proud to drive a ford

[prydey]

i often wonder how anyone managed to stay on the road in years gone by. apparently now, even if its only a 4 or 6cyl, if the car doesn't have l.s.d, t/c, ebd, dsc and all the other acronyms, its just an accident waiting to happen and very unsafe.

also sales of the E-Gas confirm that the average punter cares not that it doesn't have the latest and greatest set up under the bonnet.

[FordFella]

Strangely enough there was no mention of E-Gas (as far as I can remember). I got the mag this morning and was disgusted to find that on the front cover was (obviously) the new Torana! So not a good start. What was also terrible was to find the Jag XF out immediately - complete contradiction to another review I read from them, and showing the lack of consistency in the mag lately. Basically the 2 pages on the falcon were just nit-picking about how noisy the XT is (without any basic description of how) and how the Boss is completely irrelevant compared to the T6 (contrary to the equal 5.4 times to 100 for the F6 and GT). A little spiel on how bad it is that the steering wheel doesn't have enough adjustment ("they should have fixed this on an ALL NEW MODEL" says one of them) basically shows the extent of the nit-picking. A disgusting read and a real low point for Wheels. The last two years have been terrible - have either the C-Class or the Accord Euro picked up any awards other than the now worthless WCOTY what-so-ever? Just shows the relevance of this incredibly tarnished award.

[AUXRVIII]

Show of hands from the tall people who drive an FG and think the steering wheel height adjustment is sufficient. I'm 173cm short and I think it doesn't go high enough, I don't wanna be puched in the guts by the airbag!!!!

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by AUXRVIII

Show of hands from the tall people who drive an FG and think the steering wheel height adjustment is sufficient. I'm 173cm short and I think it doesn't go high enough, I don't wanna be puched in the guts by the airbag!!!!

Never even considered that as a problem? First time I have heard of it and have no dramas at all.



| [/url] |

[snappy]

first time ive ever heard of 170cm being tall to.

[cool65]

Had a glance at the mag whilst shopping and (correct me if I'm wrong) read there were 8 judges, with most being motoring journos, there was something that stood out - A Mrs L Tander as one of the 8. Now can anyone possibly tell me that there is not any bias for Mrs L Tander to see the FG out of contention?
Anyone ??

[ehast13]

The FG has some shortcomings.

It's better than a VE but Honda builds some pretty tight machines (at an R & D cost of over 2 billion dollars) that are highly regarded all over the world.

Was surprised to see Tiguan (1600+kg 'small' suv) in final. Yeah, right. Very efficient.

[XR6_190]

Originally Posted by cool65

Had a glance at the mag whilst shopping and (correct me if I'm wrong) read there were 8 judges, with most being motoring journos, there was something that stood out - A Mrs L Tander as one of the 8. Now can anyone possibly tell me that there is not any bias for Mrs L Tander to see the FG out of contention?
Anyone ??

If this is true, then that sucks, nobody, and I mean NOBODY who has a relationship with any manufacturer (whether that's Holden, Ford, Hyundai or Ferrari) should be able to be a judge, there is just too much room for corruption, or at least allegations of corruption.

[ehast13]

They used to have the BATES brothers is on the test (despite driving a ford at Bathurst and being a factory toyota rally driver).

It is common practice for them to have tossers

They used to have leo preneau (head of holden design) on board. Wow, did he rubbish fords while always commending holdens. He even had the cheek to criticize Mercedes E class in comparison to VS commodore. And my favourite, how lexus ls400 didn't look as sophisticated as vn statesman.

What a tool

[Swordsman88]

It was said earlier on here that people bag the results but don't read the mag.... Well i have read the mag section on COTY (not the whole thing granted....) and i think the biggest problem wasn't the FG poor showing but the whole tone of COTY this year.

You see most of ust on here are car enthusiasts (that is why you are on here), whether it be Falcon or Fiesta. Problem is, now not only are 'enthusiasts' a dieing breed, any form of excitement or driver involvment is too. This is the real reason the FG went poorly in COTY and why the Mazda 6 didn't beat the euro in the final 4.

I've read the euro summary and while i quite like the car (my uncle owns the old one to a degree based on my suggestion), Wheels' argument boils down to 'well its not bad at anything', in effect a higher quality, better built Camry. While it may suit their criteria very well overall, with none of the more obvious 'issues' marring the other cars, it doesn't mean its the best car IMO. Its all about the perspective of the judges and i think they have got their priorities all wrong.

In effect, as noted in an earlier wheels review by John Carey, the euro is just an improved version of the old one, with very little true change. It is a new body and improved interior, with a retuen of suspension/engines. It has not new gearbox/engines,, and a very limited line up. There is nothing wrong with this except it makes for a car that doesn't really move the game forward - hardly the game changing COTY like territory, BA, mazda mx5 etc. of years gone buy.

In effect, Wheels has gone soft, picking a safe, honest, quality car but one with little to really crowe about. It is basically a nicer built, quieter Mazda 6. Apparently this was enough to make up for less body/engine choice, inferior balance and poor steering. Put like that it hardly seems Wheels has come down on the 'car enthusiast' side of the fence.

FG lost because it couldn't compete with the kit and top flight quality of some of its competitors, even though it had the best engine/s on test (says so in the mag!), top flight handling and great value. With crap competition the VE got away with a win because it was a great handling car, despite its many more major deficincies. This result proves that not only is the enthusiast dead, but the fundamental ballance between a car as a vechicle, versus a car 'as a lounge room' is all wrong. Cars are now about getting from A to B with minium fuss, low fuel burn and lots of kit. If it handles decently then that is enough.

I don't so much care which car won, but i do care the direction Wheels is going in. COTY should be a car you aspire to drive, not just own. The Accord Euro is not that car, anyone who thinks it is, go drive a FG (or mazda 6, Jag XF, etc. etc. .....) :

[ehast13]

It is a clinical process.

I would buy an xr8 over a turbo but I can't justify the choice.

WHEELS has to justify the choice. Quite frankly, I'd bet that the honda will be at or near the top of the next JP Morgan (or whoever the hell it is) survey on reliabilty.

It will probably hold together very well and have no discernible weakness other than invoking narcolepsy.

It won't bite the driver. It'll have good resale. It'll be kind to the environment.

It doesn't fall down in any category. It's lack of model variation actually helps it win the award!!!!!! If it were a just G6, G6E, G6ET then I'm sure falcon would win.

The noisier xt, the nose heavy xr8, the pov pack e-gas are all weak links.

If Honda imported more than two model variations (e.g. 1.6 litre base model) then it too may have fallen short of the gong.

The whole award is based on citeria. Each variation of each car is judged against each criterion. XT noise, xr8 balance. Two crosses. Award gone.

The danger of making such an award about driver enjoyment is that some have no idea, some like a soft ride with understeer, some like a hard ride with oversteer, some like true balance. You can't get eight people from diverse backgrounds (race driver vs 4WD nut, vs woman's day contributor) to agree on which car has the best 'fun factor'.

What would you recommend to your mum? A $36,790rrp fg xt or a $32,990 accord euro (add 2k for auto). I'd go the falcon. I'd recommend the Honda for mum, or aging father or co-worker.....

I do understand the idea of 'feel good'. I have two xc falcons and I love driving them. I love driving old rwd corollas and escorts. I love my fords. I would love an FG XR8 and I wouldn't care if the turbo was faster and more economical and more balanced etc. My family car is a fairmont. Dull. I also think that a second hand Toyota Avalon would be just about the best affordable replacement for my wife's EF to drive around my kids. I don't want to drive it, but I am comfortable recommending one.

Criteria rarely lie.

I am an enthusiast. Many like to think they are but can't explain 'understeer' or 'brake fade' or even know what a flat tyre feels like. We are in a minority. Good RWD chassis' are hard to come by in 2009. Good cars are everywhere, though. Fun cars, not so easy to find.
The award is now AOTY (Appliance of the year).
Sad, but I'm sure many of us here would be happy to see our parents (maybe even grandparents), daughters, sisters in an accord.

Just leave a falcon or two for me

[benoxr]

^ that's right. The future trend doesnt appear to be as much about a couple of V8's showing off their raw power at the next set of lights but about a Honda and a Focus proving who is the better by way of who has the better technology, the most features/options fitted and the jazziest LED's. And whose cd player can blow the windows out the others' car first. :togo:

In fact, anyone seen driving an XB V8 coupe will get treated with the same disdain a smoker does nowadays. "you in that coupe, we're inhaling your emissions/fumes, get off the road!"

[mik]

it sounds like they put economy and equiptment before everything else, a poor choice imo.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by snappy84

first time ive ever heard of 170cm being tall to.

Yeah I'm 175cm and consider myself short and was the shortest on my footy team.

[Jondalar]

Originally Posted by AUXRVIII

Show of hands from the tall people who drive an FG and think the steering wheel height adjustment is sufficient. I'm 173cm short and I think it doesn't go high enough, I don't wanna be puched in the guts by the airbag!!!!

Actually this is true, the wheel should be able to adjust higher but you get used to it. For me it's mostly an issue with the upper rim of the wheel cutting off visibility of the top of the speedo and tacho even when it's as high as it can go and the seat as low as it can go.

Of course NO car is perfect, there would be issue with the Honda Accord Euro too, and since when we built in Thailand a guarantee of great quality.

[Fast Eddie]

Quote: Cool65 "a Mrs. L. Tander......"

I believe she's entered in the upcoming Bathurst 12 Hour Race in a Honda.

[ads]

Originally Posted by mik

it sounds like they put economy and equiptment before everything else, a poor choice imo.

Agree.

Economy and equipment are the realm of the "A to B" set, the 85 percenters who just want to get from A to B. Realistically, they will be fine with just about any car they buy, Camry, 6, Borion, Falcodore, Corolla, Civic etc. Most cars these days go pretty well, just take your pick. Even better, go buy a second hand laser/323 and pocket 20G.

These are the type of people who will look at an accord because it was COTY and then go buy an Epicrap because it was $4000 cheaper and had more kit. Wheels has achieved nothing by naming the Accord COTY. To my eyes they have traded passion for a Japanese marketing matrix.

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by AUXRVIII

Show of hands from the tall people who drive an FG and think the steering wheel height adjustment is sufficient. I'm 173cm short and I think it doesn't go high enough, I don't wanna be puched in the guts by the airbag!!!!

I find the wheel doesn't go high enough and have to pull the wheel out of the dash to it full extent in order to get comfortable. Not really a problem with an auto but with a manual, my leg hits the bottom of the wheel too easily.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

Of course NO car is perfect, there would be issue with the Honda Accord Euro too, and since when we built in Thailand a guarantee of great quality.

Its built in Japan, if you bothered to read the thread.