FPV Sportswagon.

[Spanrz]

The way I see it, is the wheel package and the front bumper changes the car's looks dramatically from stock.
That's not even changing the interior or side skirts or nothing.

Now I just need a FPV bar! Sweet!

[graham_h]

Originally Posted by charliewool

martO did an awesome photoshop on a FG wagon.....
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...t=sports+wagon

Now that's how it should look !!
Trick is they shouldn't make it look like the crappy old ford wagon's they've done before

[mrbaxr6t]

GEEZE!

The wagon is a car built for a PURPOSE not for anything else OK Ford have many other perfectly suitable vehicles that meet other criteria, why would they make the wagon overlap to meet other criteria making it less suitable for its current design purpose and possibly robbing sales from another vehicle Ford currently make and possibly have more costs to recoup on.........

holden has time and time again tried to crossbreed cars as mentioned in this thread and lets be honest they for the most part have been disasters and have wound up in a net loss. Ford must make cars that are profitable (which the current wagon is), otherwise NO FORD.

And if its so easy to "just put all existing parts" in a wagon body off you go and do it then show Ford how easy it is, and how affordable it is. And post plenty of pics on the forum here when you are done so we can all see how awesome you made a wagon.

Oh and don't forget to tell us how cheap it was to do

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by graham_h

Now that's how it should look !!
Trick is they shouldn't make it look like the crappy old ford wagon's they've done before

Why? The falcon wagons has been sucessfull enough how it is...

Haven't falcon wagons been built to Telstras requirements since the EA?

If Ford made a Holden style "sports wagon" they would loose a whole market, then have to duke it out with holden in the tiny sports wagon market, selling lower volumes. Thats a real smart idea yeah... :

[4Vman]

Now, more than ever before Ford need to consolidate and focus on building high volume - high profit models. Now is not the time to "speculate" with models for niche markets.

[MNM96]

Originally Posted by LowEL2XR8

Wagon concept is far from over.
I was looking at a Territory but it does not have the room the wagon does. I have three kids under 18 months old and after filling up the back seat with baby seats I need the space of a wagon to make the car useful. I looked at the Terry and thought what a waste there is no room in the boot to make it any good for me. I dare say the same for others with only 2 kids.

I'd definitely buy a XR8 or XR6 turbo wagon or a FPV wagon if I had the extra coin.

It never ceases to amaze me the number of 12 you Falcon owners who say they would buy a *insert socalled desirable model here*, if Ford made it! You all get around in $4000 worth of car saying you would outlay $40K if it was available!

I am aware you have stated "" If I had the coin"", but it happens weekly were I would buy is just a joke!

That said, If they brought out a V12 GTHO, I would fly to the moon before parting with $100k for it.

What Ford should have built was a BA GT, limited to 500, then they would be worth more than $17k 5 years on!

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by ehast13

Well how about an SR wagon. Colour coded bump strips, nice rims, Maybe even BFII ghia driving lights in the bumper. Little R&D, Just a slightly nicer wagon. I reckon an XR6 wagon would be cooler and it too would need very little R&D. How about a half way compromise - a BFIII S pack.

50 per month to fleet reps looking for something slightly nicer than an econotaxihearsebox would be a relatively easy sell. They managed to sell EF XR6 wagons at 30 per month and they needed more mods than a potential BFIII xr6 wagon. it seems possible and reasonably cost effective (XG S pack ute, anyone).

If it keeps people out of Commie wagons and makes the wagon cooler and uses existing parts (e.g. no change in drivetrain, no crash testing, no new parts) then what is the problem?

A change to sales brochures, a story in local paper, A story in Wheels, Motor or AMC.

Geez, I'm not suggesting re-engineering anything (e.g plonking the V8 in the wagon, or a whole new vehicle) just an extra value package that needs very little.

There is no reasonably priced sporty territory (i.e under 40k). Reps often have some say in what they drive. Surely they would prefer something a little bit nicer that would have better resale and looks better in carpark, to customers, to the neighbours etc.

S, SR, XR6 are all possible under 40k value packs - Some negative comments about my posts but not alot of considered rebuttal of my ideas.

That's probably a lot more feasible, using parts-bin type stuff that doesnt upset the car's ADR (or other rule/policy) status. The question still remains though - would they actually sell, and who would buy them?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

The question still remains though - would they actually sell, and who would buy them?

that is the million dollar question and ford are in the best position to answer it... and they have.

[naddis01]

I woul just like to add my opinion (yes my opinion) to the following. My opinion in bold.

Originally Posted by uranium_death

Firstly, there isn't the money to develop a new model. Ford's future here or in the US is still not safe.
Whole heartedly agree, so lets just say its probably not going to happen any day soon.

Secondly, Ford has the Territory, which covers the family market well enough and as stated by many on here, is a fantastic all-round car. Why steal sales from it with two vehicles that are similar in dimensions, interior space, performance, as well as targeted demographic?
We are currently in the market for a larger car as we have a baby on the way and the current car isnt large enough. We feel that a Falcon is large enough but the boot and boot opening isnt large enough for our needs so we are looking at a wagon style of vehicle which leaves the Territory and BF3 in the Ford range. For us the Territory is too tall (my wife is short so loading kids etc i harder with the extra height) and uses ~20% more fuel than the Falcon. The Falcon wagon on the hand looks like a 1997 AU but would probably be more suitable to the family role. It would also be nice if it was a little more sporting ie XR6/8 grade for when you want a little fun. Therefore neither of these vehicles really suit my (coming soon) family needs. We are currently looking elsewhere in Mazdas stable.

Thirdly, there is already a wagon, and it cost next to nothing to update from BFII to BFIII, and has its own niche market. It may not be pretty, but it gets the job done. Holden had to have a wagon, since the Captiva was not the success Holden had hoped it would be.
Really how long can you keep selling the BF3? Yes at the moment it is selling at what ~400 units a month, but what is it going to be a year or so down the track? Surely it also complicates things on the production line have the BF model being produced at the same time as the FG.

As nice and rosey as the VE may be, I am not convinced that it's making a massive difference to Holden sales.
~800 sales (going off figures in this thread) not making a difference to Holdens sales?

When they have to take the price down several thousand only months after release, that is probably a sign that it isn't selling like hotcakes and therefore difficult to recoup the costs.
No one else is having to do the same? How is the FG going?

Ford is playing it smart.

If Ford released a similar wagon, would you buy it? Many people who say, "I want Ford to make a sportswagon" will never buy one. It's just eye-candy and a case of "monkey-see, monkey-do" between Holden and Ford.
YES I would buy it! I am in the market right now. The current Ford offerings arent good enough so my money will probably go elsewhere. A Ford version of the Sportwagon in XR trim would be exactly what we want. Having said that, I understand why Ford probably cant do much about it at the moment.

Right now, Ford should keep the current line-up.

[ehast13]

A more stylish wagon using existing parts creates a better view of the whole model range. Would Falcon's sell as well if there was no XR6/8 or no G6E model?

Holden sell many cars just on style alone.

People drive Commies coz it is cool.

A halo car IS beneficial for both new and second hand sales (that is why people buy v6 crapbag commodores and think they have HSV's). Making a car more desirable while keeping costs down is the key. An FG wagon doesn't seem feasible, a V8 wagon doesn't seem feasible.

Making a few SR wagons or even XR6 wagons make sense.

Many reps today get a say in what vehicle they drive. Some will pick a VE wagon over the ford XT even if they have to pack it tighter (don't say no-one will, because many choose cars based on looks even if they are not as good as the competition. IF you need more evidence look at how many commies sell vs falcons).

Whenever you make a car less boring or more desireable at MINIMUM cost you improve the long term chances of sales. A more desirable car is more attractive to buyers. It often holds better resale and this also helps a buyer make a choice if they know they won't take a such a deep bath at trade in time. it makes them easier to sell when second hand because they don't all look like repmobiles (hello VE wagon).

How many standard XF wagons do you see on the road today? How many XF S pac wagons are still around (and in better nick).

A wagon in SR or XR6 trim wouldn't take many sales away from Terri. They are different niche vehicles.

An SR or XR wagon would help improve the image of the range (a la xg s pac) and improve longer term sales.

It makes sense. It is basic market research.

[ehast13]

Mrbaxr6t,
have you ever changed a flat tyre? Have you applied a sticker/decal (maybe a rego sticker). If you have then you would be able to construct a BFIII SR wagon.

Have you ever replaced a driving light in your XR6 (the bumper mounted ones)?

BF2 ghia driving lights, a nicer set of rims (current FG XT alloys, G6 alloys), an SR sticker on the tailgate, front guard (or rear door or side skirt).

If you want to make an XR8 wagon.... Well, thats beyond the realm of a wheelbrace and screwdriver and probably a waste of money if crashtesting needs to be done.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by ehast13

Making a few SR wagons or even XR6 wagons make sense.

An XR6 wagon aint gonna happen either. Fergeddaboutit. The only "extra special" wagon that Ford could be convinced to build using parts bin type stuff not fitted on the production line, is an SR style wagon as mentioned.

Some 17's, body-colour door strips and mirrors, SR seats (like the Falcon sedan had) 6 stacker perhaps, definitely electric windows in the back seats, and perhaps an add-on skirt for the rear bumper because that rear bumper looks stupid, and a little add-on wing to go at the top of the tail gate to sex up the back end a bit, and you're done. All of those bits and pieces (apart from the rear skirt and spoiler) are or have been made by Ford for other dealer specials so it shouldn't be that difficult.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

An XR6 wagon aint gonna happen either. Fergeddaboutit. The only "extra special" wagon that Ford could be convinced to build using parts bin type stuff not fitted on the production line, is an SR style wagon as mentioned.

Some 17's, body-colour door strips and mirrors, SR seats (like the Falcon sedan had) 6 stacker perhaps, definitely electric windows in the back seats, and perhaps an add-on skirt for the rear bumper because that rear bumper looks stupid, and a little add-on wing to go at the top of the tail gate to sex up the back end a bit, and you're done. All of those bits and pieces (apart from the rear skirt and spoiler) are or have been made by Ford for other dealer specials so it shouldn't be that difficult.

Won't happen.....

The Assembly plants daily build is complex enough already. FoA are trying to remove complexity not increase it.

[Gobes32]

It will be a godsend when wagon is dropped. The amount of AU/BA/BF dies we have to keep in the plant just to keep running wagon is huge.......

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

It will be a godsend when wagon is dropped. The amount of AU/BA/BF dies we have to keep in the plant just to keep running wagon is huge.......

The thing is that in this climate a sale is a sale. So while they can move what they're making they'll keep building the Wagon.

[Road_Warrior]

Would Ford even make a profit on the wagon as-is? Burela's quote in that GoAuto article indicated that he was pretty chuffed with it.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by ehast13

Well how about an SR wagon. Colour coded bump strips, nice rims, Maybe even BFII ghia driving lights in the bumper. Little R&D, Just a slightly nicer wagon. I reckon an XR6 wagon would be cooler and it too would need very little R&D. How about a half way compromise - a BFIII S pack.

50 per month to fleet reps looking for something slightly nicer than an econotaxihearsebox would be a relatively easy sell. They managed to sell EF XR6 wagons at 30 per month and they needed more mods than a potential BFIII xr6 wagon. it seems possible and reasonably cost effective (XG S pack ute, anyone).

If it keeps people out of Commie wagons and makes the wagon cooler and uses existing parts (e.g. no change in drivetrain, no crash testing, no new parts) then what is the problem?

A change to sales brochures, a story in local paper, A story in Wheels, Motor or AMC.

Geez, I'm not suggesting re-engineering anything (e.g plonking the V8 in the wagon, or a whole new vehicle) just an extra value package that needs very little.

There is no reasonably priced sporty territory (i.e under 40k). Reps often have some say in what they drive. Surely they would prefer something a little bit nicer that would have better resale and looks better in carpark, to customers, to the neighbours etc.

S, SR, XR6 are all possible under 40k value packs - Some negative comments about my posts but not alot of considered rebuttal of my ideas.

Problem with an SR wagon is because 95% of sales go to fleets, they won't buy them, as correct me if i'm wrong, fleets are exempt from special value packs ie. they aren't given fleet pricing on them, so that instantly removes 95% of its potential customers. So that leaves 20 or so potential customers a month. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

If you read the fine print on the ads it says fleets excluded.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Would Ford even make a profit on the wagon as-is? Burela's quote in that GoAuto article indicated that he was pretty chuffed with it.

Why wouldnt they...

Some of the BF wagon is over 10 years old, as a car gets older the development costs from when it was made deminish, therefore they become very very profitable...

Ford is no doubt making more money out of BFIII wagons then Holden is outta VE's... Holdens still covering development cost, Fords only got to cover materials and labour now.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by naddis01

I woul just like to add my opinion (yes my opinion) to the following. My opinion in bold.

I don't get the point you say about the Territory being too tall to load the kids into. That makes no sense to me. When you load the kids into a Falcon you have to drop down to place them in. In the Territory the seats are at a perfect height so you don't have to bend down to get them in, if anything its a lot easier to load them into a Territory than it is a Falcon, i've done it numerous times. My girlfriends a lot shorter than me and she found it easier too, especially when you don't have to duck your head under the Falcons roof to get them in. Territory kills the Falcon for when you have kids.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Problem with an SR wagon is because 95% of sales go to fleets, they won't buy them, as correct me if i'm wrong, fleets are exempt from special value packs ie. they aren't given fleet pricing on them, so that instantly removes 95% of its potential customers. So that leaves 20 or so potential customers a month. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

If you read the fine print on the ads it says fleets excluded.

Point taken, however, if the wagon was actually marketed (it's not marketed in any way, shape or form at the moment apart from brochures to fleet managers??) then it could pick up a few private sales? I'm just thinking out loud here.

Problem is with the wagon is it just looks povvo. Dress them up a bit like wagon owners on this site have done and they look ok, but people won't buy something that looks like a daggy rep's car. Hence why I agreed that the SR could be a goer.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I don't get the point you say about the Territory being too tall to load the kids into. That makes no sense to me. When you load the kids into a Falcon you have to drop down to place them in. In the Territory the seats are at a perfect height so you don't have to bend down to get them in, if anything its a lot easier to load them into a Territory than it is a Falcon, i've done it numerous times. My girlfriends a lot shorter than me and she found it easier too, especially when you don't have to duck your head under the Falcons roof to get them in. Territory kills the Falcon for when you have kids.

Ive owned both and the terri is without doubt more user friendly for loading and unloading kids and cargo.
My wife is 5'6" and prefered the height of the terri over the wagon, so much so that a new terri is on the cards.

[Chopped]

I do beleive the "SUV" hype is dying and so are sales. The Territory was great for Ford (unless the brakes failed!) but now is fading in sales and interest (The Captiva outsells it!)

Sporty looking Wagon/Hatch type vehicles are now being put out as concepts from lots of different manufacturers. A new "hype" vehicle is emerging >

http://reviews.cnet.com/2300-11443_7-10000351.html
http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/354/C13345/
http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/09/the-mercedes--1.html
http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring...er-concept.htm
etc
etc

One thing that's certain is that consumer interest in fuel-efficient, environmentally friendly cars will grow....and grow :

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Ive owned both and the terri is without doubt more user friendly for loading and unloading kids and cargo.
My wife is 5'6" and prefered the height of the terri over the wagon, so much so that a new terri is on the cards.

Me too, went from a BA XR8 to a Territory Ghia, and the Terry kills it for practicality, especially when you have kids. Gone back to a sedan now but I borrow my dads Territory sometimes and love being able to load stuff in the back, fits whole mountain bike without taking the wheel off with ease.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I don't get the point you say about the Territory being too tall to load the kids into. That makes no sense to me. When you load the kids into a Falcon you have to drop down to place them in. In the Territory the seats are at a perfect height so you don't have to bend down to get them in, if anything its a lot easier to load them into a Territory than it is a Falcon, i've done it numerous times. My girlfriends a lot shorter than me and she found it easier too, especially when you don't have to duck your head under the Falcons roof to get them in. Territory kills the Falcon for when you have kids.

My wife is only a touch over 5'. I didnt mean just lifting kids into the car. I was also thinking about prams etc. We are currently considering a Mazda 6 wagon which has a fairly low lip for the boot.
We both dont like the height of "SUVs". I prefer to be closer to the ground. I dont like the feeling of being that high going around corners even though the Territory is a decent handler for its size. The other big thing for families I beleive is the significant increase in fuel consumption compared to normal wagons. A 20% increase compared to the Falcon is a considerable amount of fuel.

Why cant the Falcon wagon have all of the practicality of a Territory if it was designed with that in mind in the first place?

[Grunter]

Originally Posted by naddis01

..The other big thing for families I beleive is the significant increase in fuel consumption compared to normal wagons. A 20% increase compared to the Falcon is a considerable amount of fuel...

There's no doubt that the Territory uses more fuel than the BF3 wagon ($600 per year or $11 per week based on average consumption figures), however if fuel efficency is one of your major wants, then you shouldn't be looking at a BF3 wagon either.

Families also take into account other items like easy of use, safety, vehicle dynamics, features, etc when looking at a family car and weigh those options up against other vehicles. I believe that for the added safety and family orientated features the Territory fits the bill. That your looking at a Mazda 6, to me shows your not in the same market as either a Territory or a BF3 wagon.

[prydey]

bf3 is also available in egas. much cheaper to run than a territory. my wagon does everything i need it to do. i don't like suv's either.

[Falcon Coupe]

The comments running here show there is a market for both, i guess that's why both are still on the market.

[mrbaxr6t]

Originally Posted by ehast13

Mrbaxr6t,
have you ever changed a flat tyre? Have you applied a sticker/decal (maybe a rego sticker). If you have then you would be able to construct a BFIII SR wagon.

Have you ever replaced a driving light in your XR6 (the bumper mounted ones)?

BF2 ghia driving lights, a nicer set of rims (current FG XT alloys, G6 alloys), an SR sticker on the tailgate, front guard (or rear door or side skirt).

If you want to make an XR8 wagon.... Well, thats beyond the realm of a wheelbrace and screwdriver and probably a waste of money if crashtesting needs to be done.

My interpretation of this is : You want FORD to get a wagon as it sits now and put a set of mag wheels and a pinstripe on it? am I correct - hell why stop there why not put neons under it why not put spinner mag wheels on it why not swap the headlights to ones that glow blue?

I am 99.9999999999999999% certain that if you went into Ford dealership and said I want wagon with XXXX wheels - I am certain it will be made happen, either at build time or by the dealer at additional cost to you. Ford don't do this because its not asked for. If people were saddling up to Ford and asking for mag wheels (for example) Ford would respond to the market trend and possibly make more mag wheels available as an option to the wagon. And on the coilover issue : switching from leaf to coilover means that the wheel tubs need to be larger - reducing cargo space. These aren't built to handle they are built to haul.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Grunter

There's no doubt that the Territory uses more fuel than the BF3 wagon ($600 per year or $11 per week based on average consumption figures), however if fuel efficency is one of your major wants, then you shouldn't be looking at a BF3 wagon either.

Families also take into account other items like easy of use, safety, vehicle dynamics, features, etc when looking at a family car and weigh those options up against other vehicles. I believe that for the added safety and family orientated features the Territory fits the bill. That your looking at a Mazda 6, to me shows your not in the same market as either a Territory or a BF3 wagon.

Well no I am not in the market for a Territory as I have said as I dont like the whole SUV thing. As I have said I would be very interested in a Falcon wagon in FG XR form. The current BF3 looks like a dunger. The rear of it has been around for how many years now? 10+. I am looking at a Mazda6 wagon for its easy of use, safety, vehicle dynamics, features, etc. How does the Territory have added safety by the way? I would suggest that it is no safer or even less safe than a Falcon. I currently have a work BF2 Egas RTV and I wouldnt buy an Egas wagon as a personal vehicle as it is a prehistoric dunger.

So basically, no I am not in the Territory market as I dont like SUVs but I would be in the Falcon wagon market if there was a decent one. The fuel consumption of a Falcon is fine, but a Territory is starting to get up there. We do more than the ave KM per year. Typically 30-35000km per year or more.

[monkeykplunk]

It's not just people who have kids who buys wagons.
I bought a wagon over the Territory because my partner and I have 2 large dogs and the Territory was far too high up for taking those two around. I sure as hell am not lifting 2 70kg dogs into the back of a Territory!
Also, I have a lot of band equipment that I pack into the wagon on a regular basis too.

The Territory and other "town" 4WD/AWDs are useless IMO.
Manufacturers would have been better off staying with a 4WD for off road use, and wagons for all other. All this cross-over bull gets stupid people confused and they think that their X-Trail can handle running along the beach all day and then wonder why they end up tearing up a gearbox.