New Driving Lights - Page 3

T3man · 13-06-2006, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC

Thanks - I actually want it for the ESS gear changing thingy, and I know that it's a +5v system. Will a 12V relay work OK with a 5V power source? I'm guessing the 5V is max/nominal rating and that it should work OK with 5?

OK - talking about a different animal here JC - I was really only speaking regarding the lighting system. (and not for BAs, cos they do use the BEM for some of the lights)

Now, if your ESS is BEM operated you will definitely need to use the same voltage throughout - do not use battery voltage supply. Yes, you could use a 12 volt relay but it will draw more current - better to get a 5V one from tricky Dick Smithy's local electronics shop.

T3man · 13-06-2006, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6-VCT-2000

Fair enough , but so long as you use them wisely and within reason / and you have a second switch to enable you to turn them off altogether no matter what, then no-one is gonna argue it i think ! , i have driven past tones of cops and through booze buses with both my driving lights and headlights running , nothing has ever been said . ;) .

Well so far you've been lucky - I know several people who have been booked for that offence - so far you've only come across lazy coppers but one day you might find one who is out to do his job - it's $75 in NSW, don't know about other states.

Of course, when off-road or in a carpark you can have any damn lights on and wired up any damn way you like.

PS providing they don't cause interference with anyone on a nearby public throughfare.

XR6-VCT-2000 · 13-06-2006, 11:18 PM

Yeah the rules must be changing all the time , last i hear i remember hearing nsw didnt like the idea of them on as described above , allthough the driving lights i bought have the australian standards mark on the box , and on the back it says out of all the australian residencys , New Zealand only must be connected so that the lamps can not be operated whilst either on dipped or high beam. Doesn't say it's illegal in any other sate/region ?? ....anyway . ... around here in melbourne just about every second car has driving lights running with their headlights or parkers ( especially all the newer fords , crummydores , subaru's and 4wd's ) .

TwistedEL · 13-06-2006, 11:39 PM

This is how I will be doing mine. This way I can have the lights OFF, ON, or AUTO - where they are On with Parkers, Off with Low beam, On with High Beam.

They will also work with the Delay switch in the Fairmont, and there is no need to run the high current stuff into the cabin.

For about $15 in parts it is worth a little bit of soldering time

XR6-VCT-2000 · 13-06-2006, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedEL

This is how I will be doing mine. This way I can have the lights OFF, ON, or AUTO - where they are On with Parkers, Off with Low beam, On with High Beam.

They will also work with the Delay switch in the Fairmont, and there is no need to run the high current stuff into the cabin.

For about $15 in parts it is worth a little bit of soldering time

The image isn't showing , but whatever the case , thats what the wiring does in diagram i posted before . ;)

TwistedEL · 13-06-2006, 11:49 PM

Yours doesnt turn off with low beam does it?

Making some friends for life tonight

:

XR6-VCT-2000 · 13-06-2006, 11:57 PM

oh , na , i got mine wired to come on with the parkers ;) , but i can switch them off no matter what setting i have the original lights on, i have my extra switch hidden inside the fuse compartment in the cabin/interior with it permanentlly switched on ( easilly assesable quickly though if needed or blown a globe in the driving lights etc etc ) .

JC · 13-06-2006, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3man

OK - talking about a different animal here JC - I was really only speaking regarding the lighting system. (and not for BAs, cos they do use the BEM for some of the lights)

Now, if your ESS is BEM operated you will definitely need to use the same voltage throughout - do not use battery voltage supply. Yes, you could use a 12 volt relay but it will draw more current - better to get a 5V one from tricky Dick Smithy's local electronics shop.

Thanks for the tip. I will visit Dick Smith's later this week and get a 5V relay.

outback_ute · 14-06-2006, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6-VCT-2000

around here in melbourne just about every second car has driving lights running with their headlights or parkers ( especially all the newer fords , crummydores , subaru's and 4wd's ) .

Fog lights not driving lights!

It's pretty simple, all extra lights should have their own switch and be wired up using a relay (all the lights I have bought had a wiring diagram on the package & the parts you need but they were decent brands). From there:

Fog lights = specific lens/reflector design & 55W max (check when buying, I am sure there would be cheap imported stuff labelled fog lights that are actually not). These can be on with parkers (& therefore low & high beam too), although many states have laws about use when there isn't poor visibility (fog/dust/smoke etc). When buying aftermarket lights make sure you are not buying yourself a canary too.

Driving lights = no rules, any wattage, any size etc (eg I had 140W lights on my ute). They can only be on with your high beam, and must turn off when you dip your headlights to low beam.

As mentioned in the Vicroads VSI10 posted earlier (this is a good reference even for interstate guys but check local laws too), there are also other lights, eg daytime running lights (DRL) - think old Volvos, cornering lights, work lights, etc.

Re light posiiton, I used to have the 140W lights under the bumper on the ute, it might not be the ideal position but they still worked bloody well.

XR6-VCT-2000 · 14-06-2006, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outback_ute

Fog lights not driving lights!

It's pretty simple, all extra lights should have their own switch and be wired up using a relay (all the lights I have bought had a wiring diagram on the package & the parts you need but they were decent brands). From there:

Fog lights = specific lens/reflector design & 55W max (check when buying, I am sure there would be cheap imported stuff labelled fog lights that are actually not). These can be on with parkers (& therefore low & high beam too), although many states have laws about use when there isn't poor visibility (fog/dust/smoke etc). When buying aftermarket lights make sure you are not buying yourself a canary too.

Driving lights = no rules, any wattage, any size etc (eg I had 140W lights on my ute). They can only be on with your high beam, and must turn off when you dip your headlights to low beam.

As mentioned in the Vicroads VSI10 posted earlier (this is a good reference even for interstate guys but check local laws too), there are also other lights, eg daytime running lights (DRL) - think old Volvos, cornering lights, work lights, etc.

Re light posiiton, I used to have the 140W lights under the bumper on the ute, it might not be the ideal position but they still worked bloody well.

No i did mean driving lights ! , not fog lights , fog lights are yellow (well realy / idealy !) . Typically most people know driving lights are 55/60w and foggys start at 55/60w too but with yellow lenses, not saying you can't buy above these ratings , but thats the old known to most people sorta 'standards' .
And yes just about every car around here locally to me has their extra 55/60w white Driving lights/fog lights as vic roads refers to them / on all the time.

Depends personally what you call them though i suppose , some people call driving lights fog lights, as they are like a lower watt white light / better vision than extra light with hi-beams in fog ! , they sorta can be used for both , allthough really the yellow lense fog lights are true fog lights and work the best in fog too imo . Even they box i got my lights in say on it " H3 12v 55w Driving lights .

I know your refering to the vic roads gabongle/jibber , but im just trying to reference it the old way sorta that most people understand , and most people refer to 55/60watt clear/white lights as driving lights , With the yellow lense to most people thats considered a foglight/ although as you mentioned according to vic roads that both are realy classed as a foglight. As i was saying , even the box i got mine in refer to them as driving lights too , not as foglights. And really ask anyone what big 100w lights are on a car and 9/10 they are gonna say 'Spotlights' , not driving lights ! (even though according to above/vic roads there is no such thing mentioned as a spotlight but refered to as a driving lights ) . lol ... nearlly confusing myself now ..lol

Whichever the case , my lights don't blind no-one ( they are only the smallish lights ), and everyone has them running around my area / most of theirs are the big round 1's too ! , cops around here don't even look twice when you drive past with them on day or night with parkers or headlights on too. I like them the way i have them wired , and according to the box i got them in - it states the way i wired them is legal here in australia ( maybe the rules changed since they made the lights ? ) , so ill just keep that box in my car and show a cop that if they hastle me ..lol , not that it would probably make much difference , but we don't get hastled around here about them anyway . ;)

Orbit · 14-06-2006, 10:05 AM

Hmmmmm well thats all well and good, but how about we talk in the mordern sense of the ADR's and terms.
Which are as follows.

The wattage of thses lights is not specifically mentioned in ADR 13,

"Front fog lamp" means the lamp used to improve the illumination of the road in case of
fog, snowfall, rainstorms or dust-clouds; also ADR 13 PG 28 section 6.3.3

"Driving beam (main-beam) headlamp" means the lamp used to illuminate the road over
a long distance ahead of the vehicle; (ADR 13 6.1.1)

"Passing beam (dipped-beam) headlamp" means the lamp used to illuminate the road
ahead of the vehicle without causing undue dazzle or discomfort to oncoming
drivers and other road-users; ADR 13 6.2.2

ADR 13 PG 28 section 6.3.3
It's a really good read as far as telling you exactly waht you can and can't do.

autickfordfairmont · 14-06-2006, 12:08 PM

Heres how mine are hooked up.

Same as before, i can have them on, off, or auto, where there always on, but switch off with low beams, then back on with high beams. I have done them this way as i do alot of daytime highway driving, and want lights on so i can be seen easily by other drivers, i dont run with my headlights on during the day anymore as i was going through way to many bulbs and i like to run expensive ones that give ultra bright ultra white light for night. I have my Driving Lights pointed low so they are great for Fog, Heavy rain, & they dont blast into peoples eyes as most bloody commonwhores are adjusted.

The only time i have been questioned about them was before i had this settup & had them on with low beams at night. Apart from that there cool, i have been pulled over plenty of times during the day and with them on and no other lights, they were cool with them, just said dont have them on at the same time as low beams.

autickfordfairmont · 14-06-2006, 12:10 PM

Also, one last thing, the wiring diagram above alows you to only run 1 wire into the cabin, and you can pick up your low beam & High beam from in there. I think its pretty self explainatory, but if u have questions ask.

I may have pin 87 & 87a mixed up, but how it works is that the lights are always powered from ignition. When power passes through pins 85 to 86 it switches the relay to a blank pin (therefor turning the lights off) which can be done by earthing the switch (turing the off), or by letting Low beam earth the switch (Auto) or the switch can be turned off (So that it cant earth) and that will turn the lights on, even during low beam.

T3man · 14-06-2006, 12:18 PM

XR6-VCT-2000> There are just so many things about your post that is false or based on false assumptions I don't know where to start.

You say that "everyone" thinks of fog lights as being yellow. Well maybe "you" aren't "everyone". It was over three decades ago that "white" lights began to take over from the old amber foggies.

Here's a brief history lesson for everyone ...

Once upon a time kerosene lamps were used for headlights. Lenses were clear glass as it was not a very bright light, (so as much of the avaliable light as possible had to be utilized to see even 10 metres ahead), and it didn't really worry any oncoming traffic.

Then we progressed to incandescent globes. These were much brighter, up to 35w. With these "powerful" globes fluted lenses were used to disperse the light in a beam pattern that adequately lit the road while not causing glare to other road users. The lenses however were not very good and a lot of stray light raised above the horizontal or eye level. In times of fog, rain, sleet etc this caused a problem as a lot of glare was reflected back into the driver's eyes obviously making it harder to see. It was found that a yellow, amber, or even green coloured light did not produce as much glare and allowed the driver to see more easily in fog. However the coloured light lost some intensity and during clear conditions would only shine about 75% of the distance as a white light. So for convenience many people would fit two sets of lights to maximise the benefits of both in the relevant conditions.

Then we progressed to sealed beams - wattages as high as 100 were possible although for most road cars 37.5w, 50w, and 75w were about the max that was used. However lens materials and patterns didn't progress much beyond what was already in use so the general use of coloured lenses for fog lights continued.

Move on to the 60s in Europe (the 70s in Aus) - QI (quartz iodine) lights began to take over. For the same wattage a much brighter (up to 50%) light was emitted. The agricultural lenses now simply had to be improved - the horizontal beam cut-off evolved to eliminate glare to oncoming drivers with these extremely bright lights. Also, with the advent of better glass the lenses allowed greater light output and the fluting was improved to better control the beam pattern. It now became un-necessary to use coloured lenses in fog because there was now no stray light escaping above eye level which would cause glare in the driver's eyes.

So in conclusion, yes fog lights were traditionally coloured, BUT white light will travel further so a well-designed fog light with a clear lens is the more common type we see today.

To determine whether a light is a driving light or fog light only one thing has to be considered - the beam pattern. If it is a broad flat beam, staying below the horizontal, and shining more to the edges of the road rather than along the road it is a fog light. These should be mounted within 250mm of the road surface for best results. If it has a beam that reaches further ahead, and also above the horizontal, rather than to the side it is a driving light. For best results these should be mounted as high as possible but below the driver's eye level.

And I've already explained how each must be wired to comply with the ADRs.

Sorry for being so verbose but MANY people don't understand the difference so I hope this helps

janek · 14-06-2006, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orbit

1000W....where are the pics?
i'm only running at....500W lol

Its 4 of those little ones @ 55watt. Hy headlights are 80/100 (Dual Filament) (80W standard, 100W when you pull the lever to you.. super high beam

), highbeams are actually 130W.

Plus i have 2x100W driving lights in the ts50 front bar

so thats 220+160+200+260+200 when i have my driving lights on and when i hold my highbeams on. about 50% of that light is angled at about 30m in front of the car just not to too many people off

Will post piccys soonish. Im running 8Ga cable into 2x70A relays

Orbit · 14-06-2006, 01:06 PM

Thanks T3man.
But also remember that fog is "white", if you add more "white" light to this white fog the contrast between the white light of the fog and the white light of the fog lights is low. Whilst better then nothing, it is not necessarily ideal.
The school of thought that makes the most sense, works on the idea that introducing a wavelenght of contrasting colour is the most beneficial in terms of being seen during the day and seeing during the night.
Raeleigh scattering doesn't come into it (nobody mentioned it but i just thought i would)

It has been suggested that red (rear flashing fog warning lights), green and orange or tones of are perhaps the best. Ofcourse personal choice comes into it.

The thing about "white halogens" that make them almost acceptable as fog lights is that they don't produce White light, they produce "yellow" light (typically 3000 - 3500K) "White" light is more or less considerd as 4000 - 5000k. Again this difference in "colour" is enough to be able to distinguish the beam from the fog, but it is by no streach of the imagination ideal.

T3man · 14-06-2006, 01:30 PM

Orbit> With respect contrast doesn't enter into it - you (as a driver) want to see through or under the fog not see the fog itself. You can best achieve this with a light that is as close to natural (to the eye) as possible and with a beam that doesn't stray above eye level.

Now, on the other hand, from out of the driver's seat, what you are saying is true. Hence amber street lighting in high risk fog areas.

"Seeing" through fog and "being seen" through fog require different things, so amber or red lights will always have a place on the rear of vehicles - just no good up front.

OzJavelin · 14-06-2006, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVL40L

Check this

What make/model are these lights? I *NEED* foggies on my ute ASAP ..

Orbit · 14-06-2006, 02:05 PM

No probs T3man.
I should have made myself more clear.
I was infering the conditions for being seen in fog.
I was just adding to your post, stating that while there is no magic colour for seeing though fog, there are better colours then others for being seen though fog.
I completely agree that yellow filters are not the be all and end all to fog driving. the misapplication of scattering laws have been known for 60 or more years, in reguards to yellow filters.

It's intresting to note that low pressure sodium vapour lights the yellow ones used in fog prone areas..... are very very very very cheap to run.... and for this reason alone were introduced into some risk prone areas, go figure.
It's also intresting that they emmit 2 wavelenghts of yellow/orange light.
A big problem with this light, though, is that it throws off color perception. Under sodium vapor light, something blue looks gray. This makes it hard to, say, recognize your car in a parking lot.

I use yellow filters purely for personal preference, as "flattening" out the colours on dirt roads that i drive during fog i've found to be quite beneficial, it's also a trade off for safety in my book as well.

The arguement i would make for Foglights being yellow is purely one of safety, not of penetration ability.

Hope that clears up the confusion.

ORB.

Orbit · 14-06-2006, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

What make/model are these lights? I *NEED* foggies on my ute ASAP ..

i think they are hella commet FF 75
hella Micro DE"s are quite good too.
Go to supercheap, or auto one etc, look for what you want shouldn't be terribly expensive.

AWD Chaser · 14-06-2006, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by autickfordfairmont

This diagram is heaps easy to read.... but does this have the driving/fog lights on ONLY with high beam, or with low as well?

Just re-did the right driving light in the black platic thing... looks awsome... now I just gotta wire it up like the above....

autickfordfairmont · 14-06-2006, 05:42 PM

No, you need a 3 way switch On, Off, On. The On part earths the switch, therefore Earthing the relay & switching it to a Blank Pin to Turn off the lights. So you have it set so that 1 pin of the switch goes to earth, and the other goes to Low beam switch (Which is negatively earthed) so that if it is switched to either of these it will earth and switch them off. The centre "Off" position of the switch stops it from earthing which makes them stay on at all times.

You have to use a 5 pin switchin relay, so that it always has power unless the relay is triggered so it will switch to the blank relay pin.

It gives 3 Options.

1) Always Off
2) Always On
3) Auto (Where its always on, except for when Low beam Is Activated)

AND it has the added benifit of only running 1 (Earth) wire into the cabin. All power & relays are in the engine compartment, all you need is 1 wire into the cabin to the switch, then grab an earth and tap into your Lights Switch.

janek · 14-06-2006, 06:18 PM

Theres a rough diagram of my lights

was a bastard to do

AWD Chaser · 14-06-2006, 07:19 PM

Ok. I think I have it now, but can some just confirm this for me.

I only want my driving lights on with highbeams. I couldn't care otherwise. So would I tap into the highbeam wire, and link it to the relay (and then the rest)?

What sort of relay would I need? This one?

autickfordfairmont · 14-06-2006, 09:38 PM

PM Sent

JC · 14-06-2006, 10:16 PM