Idling a car?? Whats everyones methods??

[AAXR8]

Yeah i read that running a car in you should not low load for 100 hours I think!!
But Johnydep thanks because I have never owned a New Car so I guess buying second hand you want your motor to last so the 3 mins couldn't hurt it just gets the revs down!!!!

And 93 EB I guess everyone has there ways & everyone has there ways they think of a car!! If yours is just a car to drive then you would just start in it and go but if you have put a fair bit of money in to it then your car turns in to an item you are proud of when people comment on it!! & you want to stay away from the mechanics as best you can also!! my brothers a mechanic and I asked him & he wouldn't drive his with out warming it up for 5mins & my whole family does it & they all own a performance car!! So I hope your not fooling yourself !!! but also depends on your ride

No Offence!!!!!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by mik

I suspect you would find at 2 or 3 minutes tempreture would not be consistent right through the whole engine, but these modern engines with a fair bit of alloy in them would be much better off than something like a full cast iron clevo that could take upwards of 10 minutes to get uniform heat right through the block.

I've owned many Clevelands in the past, the difference in warm up between a new FGII and the old henrys is astonishing.
The heater in my FGII Ute is pumping out hot air within 2 to 3 km from cold, I was amazed at how quickly they warm up.
It sounds like Ford has done a lot of work redesigning the block passages to get more heat in around the barrels and less in the head.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I've owned many Clevelands in the past, the difference in warm up between a new FGII and the old henrys is astonishing.
The heater in my FGII Ute is pumping out hot air within 2 to 3 km from cold, I was amazed at how quickly they warm up.
It sounds like Ford has done a lot of work redesigning the block passages to get more heat in around the barrels and less in the head.

limiter bang.. limiter bang

warm yo up

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by Sox

No apology required, you entitled to disagree.
However, you're wasting your time and money by warming up the engine whilst idling. It's simply not necessary.

This is not an opinion, rather a fact.

Most (perhaps all) car manufacturers recommend driving a car immediately after start up as it warms the engine faster than idling.

Modern EFI engines with efficient oil pumps and low viscosity oils are better off when driven immediately.

my daily pos with 315k gets the start and go procedure

other stuff gets the warm up and limiter bounce up the corner

is that cool

[aussiblue]

You can actually cause damage to older cars with automatic chokes that require accelerator pedal action to fully or partially disengage them by over idling; the rich fuel mix washes oil from the bores. 30 seconds max when cold for a properly tuned car.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by AAXR8

Yeah i read that running a car in you should not low load for 100 hours I think!!
But Johnydep thanks because I have never owned a New Car so I guess buying second hand you want your motor to last so the 3 mins couldn't hurt it just gets the revs down!!!!

And 93 EB I guess everyone has there ways & everyone has there ways they think of a car!! If yours is just a car to drive then you would just start in it and go but if you have put a fair bit of money in to it then your car turns in to an item you are proud of when people comment on it!! & you want to stay away from the mechanics as best you can also!! my brothers a mechanic and I asked him & he wouldn't drive his with out warming it up for 5mins & my whole family does it & they all own a performance car!! So I hope your not fooling yourself !!! but also depends on your ride

No Offence!!!!!

My dad's first 'new' car was a 4.1L auto 1977 Ford XC Falcon ute. Everyday he would start it with the manual choke, give it 20 - 30 seconds then reverse it out the drive and head off to work. The cylinder head had never been off that engine. He sold it in 2011, still a daily runner.

With my first new car, a 2004 Ford Territory, I've followed my fathers advice (a mechanic by trade). The engine has never had a drop of oil between services, and still goes like the day I took it from the dealer. Here are the Oil Analysis I conducted over an extended period - http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=6663

My second new car is a SS-V ute, I intend to keep this as long as my dad kept his ute. I start the engine, put the seat belt on, check surroundings and reverse out the drive.

I'll keep you posted in 10 years time

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

You can actually cause damage to older cars with automatic chokes that require accelerator pedal action to fully or partially disengage them by over idling; the rich fuel mix washes oil from the bores. 30 seconds max when cold for a properly tuned car.

Strategic zip ties sort out those naughty auto chokes

[aussiblue]

They're not naughty just designed to require pedal action to work correctly. e.g. on the Mikuni Solex below the automatic choke won't drop down each step progressively closing the choke unless the accelerator pedal is pressed down and released. It is held on each step with spring tension that is only released when the accelerator pedal is pressed lifting the screw from the step allowing the coolant encased bimetallic spring to move the stepped cam around.

[aussiblue]

Ditto with some quadrajets see http://www.justanswer.com/classic-ca...ded-vacum.html

On all 4MV models, the choke system is equipped with an unloader mechanism which is designed to partially open the choke valve, should the engine become loaded or flooded. To unload the engine, the accelerator pedal must be depressed so that the throttle valves are held wide open. A tang on a lever on the choke side of the primary throttle shaft contacts the fast idle cam and through the intermediate choke shaft forces the choke valve slightly open

and perhaps more relevant here some Motorcraft carbies
http://www.carburetor-parts.com/Moto...00_ep_422.html

The choke rod actuates the fast idle cam during choking. Steps on the edge of the fast idle cam contact the fast idle adjusting screw. This permits a faster engine idle speed for smoother running when the engine is cold. As the choke plate is moved through its range of travel from the closed to the open position, the choke rod rotates the fast idle earn. Each step on the fast idle cam permits a slower idle rprn as engine temperature rises and choking is reduced.

During the warm-up period, if the engine should reach the stall point due to a lean mixture, manifold vacuum will drop considerably. The tension of the thermostatic spring then overcomes the lowered vacuum acting on the choke piston and the choke plate is moved toward the closed position, providing a richer mixture to help prevent stalling.

The linkage between the choke lever and the throttle shaft is designed so that the choke plate will partially open when the accelerator pedal is fully depressed, This allows the unloader tang to contact the throttle lever and permits unloading of a flooded engine. Motorcraft 2100 Carburetor

and Holleys http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/...Carburetor.pdf

[aussiblue]

Most later models of the forgoing carbies had spring or vacuum operated automatic unloader circuits that unloaded the choke from the stepped cam but earlier models required at least a slight minor blip of the pedal to unload the choke. But perhaps I am too old and this isn't relevant to most current forum users.

[THE SLUG]

Since my 4Runner runs an ancient 2.4 diesel with 345,000kms on it, I tend to let it warm up for 5-10 minutes before driving, and then baby it until im sure everything is up to temperature. If I can, I'll let my AU/BF run for a couple of minutes before driving, however that's not always convenient, so I just drive gently until once again I'm certain all drivetrain components are up to temperature. With regards to the 4Runner, is what I'm doing okay? It seems a lot happier when warmed up for just a couple of mins.

[supershifty]

I start my XH I6 cold and let it get some oil moving around before dropping it into gear, about a minute. I drive her gently until the gauge comes up to temp, about a quarter on the needle. After that it's all good in my mind to stuff the right Grosby into the loud pedal.

Idling and glazed bores: I call BS on that as it's totally unavoidable in traffic - what are you going to do? Shut down the engine while you wait? Buy a Prius or hybrid if idling is that much of a worry.

Cheers!

[mechanic]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

Most later models of the forgoing carbies had spring or vacuum operated automatic unloader circuits that unloaded the choke from the stepped cam but earlier models required at least a slight minor blip of the pedal to unload the choke. But perhaps I am too old and this isn't relevant to most current forum users.

It's certainly relevant to me. The system of automatic chokes with coil springs heated from the exhaust manifold were good when they worked but after they started seizing up they were a pain.
Rochester Quadrajets and the like were a nightmare to get right once they had a few years on them.
I'll have the modern injection systems anyday, of course I now have to take it to our young mechanic who knows what he's doing.

[CoupeKing]

So I guess its safe to say it all depends on your vehicle and its condition, and how much you give a rats about it. But if anything, chances of something going pop would be higher if cold, unless the metal components you have dont expand.

[Xauterus]

I had a workmate years ago with a HJ Holden and a 308 and toploader. He would start it up wait for the oil pressure to come up and then do a burnout as he left work everyday.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

They're not naughty just designed to require pedal action to work correctly. e.g. on the Mikuni Solex below the automatic choke won't drop down each step progressively closing the choke unless the accelerator pedal is pressed down and released. It is held on each step with spring tension that is only released when the accelerator pedal is pressed lifting the screw from the step allowing the coolant encased bimetallic spring to move the stepped cam around.

image

I fixed all yo shenanigans with a zip tie

Originally Posted by Xauterus

I had a workmate years ago with a HJ Holden and a 308 and toploader. He would start it up wait for the oil pressure to come up and then do a burnout as he left work everyday.

oil pressure should be straight up.. its a warmth in the block thing yo chasing

[AAXR8]

Originally Posted by johnydep

My dad's first 'new' car was a 4.1L auto 1977 Ford XC Falcon ute. Everyday he would start it with the manual choke, give it 20 - 30 seconds then reverse it out the drive and head off to work. The cylinder head had never been off that engine. He sold it in 2011, still a daily runner.

With my first new car, a 2004 Ford Territory, I've followed my fathers advice (a mechanic by trade). The engine has never had a drop of oil between services, and still goes like the day I took it from the dealer. Here are the Oil Analysis I conducted over an extended period - http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=6663

My second new car is a SS-V ute, I intend to keep this as long as my dad kept his ute. I start the engine, put the seat belt on, check surroundings and reverse out the drive.

I'll keep you posted in 10 years time

Thanks for your comments!! My Grandad was a mechanic all his life & he says the same thing about warming them up!! So the discussion I had with my neighbour if you have never been told to warm cars up you wouldn't that's why he disagrees. He has 2 HQ utes I & its funny because now he is starting to warm them up for a couple of minutes longer since we had the discussion!! One's on Gas & I can just tell by listening it runs like **** unless he warms but he dose not want to tell me that he is starting to!
Let me know!!! 2 mins is not long by the time you get set 2-3 minutes passes by I notice a huge difference with BOSS 260 if its warm & cold & its has just hit 140,000 so I will also tell you if I have any problems Start up!! The person, the car, what you have been told or have not its good to hear everyone's story on there methods!!!
Thanks mate!!!!!

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by turbojosh

Mmm I'm sure there's fact behind why you should/shouldn't but I guess like I said, our cars have always been warmed up before driving, and they've all lasted well over 250,000 and even an au ute went nearly 500,000 with no problems... old habits die hard but for us, warming cars up hasn't created any problems...

of course they've lasted but you've wasted fuel and that's the point

read post #42, a warm up achieves nothing other than burning fuel for no reason

as I stated previously it's a carry over from the 'old' days and carby cars.

Modern injected cars get to operating temp very fast and don't splutter until they get there like some older cars did

I can't believe we're even having this discussion

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by xxx000

of course they've lasted but you've wasted fuel and that's the point

read post #42, a warm up achieves nothing other than burning fuel for no reason

as I stated previously it's a carry over from the 'old' days and carby cars.

Modern injected cars get to operating temp very fast and don't splutter until they get there like some older cars did

I can't believe we're even having this discussion

warms car up and gets crucified for wasting fuel

the internetz been the internertz

since internertz

[marcyeo]

I know this may be controversial starting this in this particular thread - but wouldn't warming DOWN your car be just as important as warming up? Most damage particularly to the turbo on some of our cars would be done when the engine's turned off immediately and the oil's left to cook the bearings..

I know in my ex-F6 the bloody thermostat would kick in even on some cooler days after just doing a city run, no hard running at all - which made me idle the car after I stopped for about 30s before turning it off..

Likely this is to protect the turbo, but now I have the GT - is there any additional benefit to idling the car down for 30s after a heated drive?

[Yellow_Festiva]

Ok guys...

While the car is sitting there warming up, is the clutch in and first selected or are you just using neutral and the hand brake?

If it's a self shifter, have you 'correctly' engaged park the night before? Wouldn't want to put all that undue stress in that little pin thinggo on the gear box that holds the whole car still?



Look fwd to the next half dozen pages of debate, now that we have sorted out all the pro's and con's of letting an engine idle... Or have we??

20 - 30 minutes??

I think there is a market for down filled, tripple stitched car covers with inlaid electric blanket style heating elements..

Anyway... all this talk of glazed bores got me thinking of donuts and fornication just quietly

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Ok guys...

While the car is sitting there warming up, is the clutch in and first selected or are you just using neutral and the hand brake?

If it's a self shifter, have you 'correctly' engaged park the night before? Wouldn't want to put all that undue stress in that little pin thinggo on the gear box that holds the whole car still?



Look fwd to the next half dozen pages of debate, now that we have sorted out all the pro's and con's of letting an engine idle... Or have we??

20 - 30 minutes??

I think there is a market for down filled, tripple stitched car covers with inlaid electric blanket style heating elements..

Anyway... all this talk of glazed bores got me thinking of donuts and fornication just quietly

My father, a automatic transmission rebuilder that did most of his time at BorgWarner, told me "never trust Park in a Falcon with the C4 trans".

I think it was the XA - XC, the linkages would wear and cause the T-Bar to be in P but the trans levers could be half in/half out. He told me a few story's and seen a few come in with busted rear ends, even saw one come off an hoist.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by johnydep

My father, a automatic transmission rebuilder that did most of his time at BorgWarner, told me "never trust Park in a Falcon with the C4 trans".

I think it was the XA - XC, the linkages would wear and cause the T-Bar to be in P but the trans levers could be half in/half out. He told me a few story's and seen a few come in with busted rear ends, even saw one come off an hoist.

Reminds me of another story. Dad told me that they'd get visits from Japanese automotive technicians and engineers, studying the common faults and break downs of the automatics of the day. They'd then go back to Japan and build an improved copy for their automotive industry. Have a look at some of their early transmissions, you can clearly see that they are copies of BorgWarner, Hydramatics, and a few others.

back on topic now - Some cars have a function that when you start up, the dash board goes through a diagnostic test. After that it's ready to

[aussiblue]

Amongst my cars (too many) I have a 1980 LC Lancer that I have had from new than has done well over 300,000 km (never even had its cylinder head off) and 1963 EH panel van that handed down from my grandfather via my late father. I only wait until the less than 20 seconds oil pressure is up before driving them (both have oil pressure gauges). I think their engine life longevity probably has more to do with regular 5,000 km oil changes and coolant changes every two years.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Warming up is a waste of time and fuel, and probably worse for the engine as its operating at low oil pressure for extended periods of time, most engine wear would occur during that time.

Start the car and drive it to get oil pressure up, don't drive it hard till warmed up, warming up has nothing to do with water temp, oil temp is more important as oil has a operating temperature where it works well, that's why later FPV's were fitted with oil temp and oil pressure gauges.

You can see the low oil pressure on the gauge while idling. I avoid cold idling as much as possible, actually get in the car and get ready before starting engine, then start up once I am ready to go and drive off, hate looking at the gauge not registering any oil pressure on a cold engine idling away.

The warming up thing is only for old carb engines with chokes that run badly when cold, even then, minimal sitting around is best. Warming up by idling a car for anymore than 20 - 30 seconds is a waste of fuel and time, causes excessive pollution, annoys the neighbour, contaminates the oil with blow by, and causes excessive wear on your engine, so there really are no positives to doing it.

[BIONIC MAN]

That's it, just because the temp gauge says it up to temp, doesn't mean the oil is.. owners of fpv and oil temp gauge cars will realise there is a big difference in the time taken to heat oil VS coolant.

As has been said, start... idle, put on seat belt and drive steadily, for at least 5 mins till oil temp has risen, stationary idle is a waste of time.

By driving during warm up your warming diff, gearbox, clutch/auto oil converter etc.
You don't see V8 supercars just sitting on the grid, idling during the warm up lap do you? its about warming all moving parts of the driveline..

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by BIONIC MAN

That's it, just because the temp gauge says it up to temp, doesn't mean the oil is.. owners of fpv and oil temp gauge cars will realise there is a big difference in the time taken to heat oil VS coolant.

As has been said, start... idle, put on seat belt and drive steadily, for at least 5 mins till oil temp has risen, stationary idle is a waste of time.

By driving during warm up your warming diff, gearbox, clutch/auto oil converter etc.
You don't see V8 supercars just sitting on the grid, idling during the warm up lap do you? its about warming all moving parts of the driveline..

I think this is the best answer.

Each time I start up whether hot or cold, fuel injected or carby engined, the first thing after sitting in the car is start the engine then by the time the seatbelt is on, the oil is circulating and its ready to drive off.

This has been my procedure for over 40 years now for the many types of petrol cars I've owned.

The only exception to the rule I can think of was the older Mazda rotaries where you start it up in the morning, then go back inside for another cuppa.

[xbxd351]

Are all the people on here talking about glazed bores from remote country areas? Living in Melbourne there is no way to avoid prolonged periods of idling unless you never drive anywhere ever lol. Your not gonna get glazed bores on a properly bedded in engine just from letting it warm up for a few minutes each morning. Putting an engine under load when stone cold every time you start it is a good way to shorten its life.

[xbxd351]

I see no ones mentioned forged pistons. There must be a few here running forgies and I'm sure they understand the importance of a proper warm up. I never drive off until they stop slapping around in the bores

[In Focus]

Maybe irrelevant to a Ford discussion, but my little 1.4L rocket has an oil and water temperature gauge. It takes about a kilometre's driving to hit 90 degrees water temperature. I can drive all the way to work (8km, 15 min), and the oil will be 80-85 degrees. Normal oil temperature in extended running is around the 90 degree mark.

I do tend to give it a 30 second warm-up at idle as it can run a little "lumpy" if I move off prior to that.