XR8, a hypothetical

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by flappist

This really is going way off topic.

The topic is "Would you buy a $55,000 XR8 instead of a $55,000 GS?".

The answer at this time appears to generally NO which unfortunately is exactly what I suspected....

What a dumb poll, nice way to load the question to get the result skewed your way, which has clearly failed anyway judging by the results. Ford would clearly not sell an XR8 for the same price as the GS, with the equipment that would be removed from GS to make it an XR8 plus the removal of Prodrives high profit level they could easily chop 5k from the price and get it down to 50k.

If they did that I would be on it like a fat kid on a cheeseburger, come the 2014 update. I will be getting something new around then and an XR6 Turbo was my original intention, but if they have an XR8 I will buy one, which would make it my 3rd brand new XR8 since the BA.

Just waiting to see what Ford do with the employee pricing on it, currently with FPV's you only get a 14% discount, but with Ford building them now there's a good chance the discount might go up to the 21% discount you get on the normal Falcon/Territory range, i'll just have to wait and see what happens.

[Kieron]

I didn't vote in the poll as there is not a simple, 'no'.

GS is overpriced and an XR8 for the same $$'s is in the same boat. An XR8 needs to be a sub 50K car.

I will be keeping my FG XR8 (which I purchased new) indefinitely at this stage.

[XrRabbit]

I am looking at buying a new car, not brand new but newish.
I'm unsure on what to get, either a 6T or an 8. Not sure what series haha.
I'm learning more towards the 6T but I would love a V8

[mik]

every one keeps saying an XR8 is the same as a GS, by the list of goodies the GS seems to have decent kit to me, would an XR8 got the same add ons?

no i can`t afford any of them, to me it`s all about the money, i`d have a GT in a heart beat if i had spondooly, that goes for the GS as well, but if it came down to it between XR8 and GS should they be the same money i`d go the GS

Boss 5.0 litre, supercharged DOHC 32 valve all aluminium V8 engine
Maximum power (DIN) – 315kW @ 5750 Maximum torque (DIN) – 545Nm @ 2000-5500rpm
Bi-modal twin pipe quad outlet exhaust system
High series brakes (322mm front rotor with 303mm rear rotor)
Sports cloth seats
Performance 5-spoke 19" alloy wheels in Alpine Silver
Reverse camera with reverse sensing system
Interior Command Centre (ICC) with advanced 8” colour touch screen and Bluetooth, USB & iPod connectivity
Sports projector headlamps
The FPV GS carries on a Ford tradition from 1969 when the first GS model was introduced –today as then the GS is a full-on performance car designed to deliver incredible value for money.
Nestled under the distinctive bonnet bulge is a 315kW version of FPV’s Australian developed, 5.0 supercharged, all–aluminium V8 producing a massive 545Nm of torque.
Keeping the performance under control are high series sports brakes, FPV Performance independent double wishbone front suspension and Performance Control Blade independent rear suspension.
It’s your choice of a 6-speed Tremec manual gearbox or the slick ZF 6-speed auto at no extra cost.
Premium 19” 5-spoke alloy wheels in Alpine Silver, unique GS stripe graphics with Boss 315 badging tell the world this is an Aussie muscle car to be reckoned with.
And if sheer looks are not enough, the note from the bi-modal quad exhausts emphatically announce the GS’s credentials.
Inside, GS drivers will experience a whole new level of Human Machine Interface (HMI) design complete with Bluetooth and iPod connectivity.
A high-tech, user-friendly Interior Command Centre (ICC) with 8” colour touch screen puts smart technology and all the main in-car functions at the driver’s fingertips and is complemented by an updated lighting package with precision designed projector headlights. Reverse camera and reverse sensing system complete the package.
The GS delivers supercharged V8 performance and FPV handling and dynamics in a package that offers real value in today’s market.

[Luke Plaizier]

I'm with you flappist, all the way.

A GS badged as an XR8 is perfect for me. I'd buy one.

Ford have no development costs. No need to print out separate manuals or have model specific training. And going by their recent efforts, they could spend twice as much money on promoting the XR8 as they have the Falcon and still have spent no money. The company gets the benefit of 'The Return of the XR8' as a positive marketting story to tell - although no doubt Dowling will deride the badge exercise. It has cost them nothing to do. And who cares if it eats into the sales of GS - it's the same car after all. Now they come down the same line it can't lose.

Some people put Chevy badges on Holdens, and others Holden Badges on Chevy's. Same for Ford and FPV - many Ford people whack on FPV badges, but I'm definitely one who'd put Ford badges on an FPV....


Lukeyson

[Joe5619]

If I was in charge at Ford I would do the following

1) **** the FPV badges off & open the range to all dealers
2) Create a XR6T & XR8, that is exactly the same car & PRICE (obviously with a different engine)
3) Create a G6ET & G8E that is exactly the same car & PRICE (obviously with a different engine)
4) Create the GT as the Holo car & keep it the same as now
5) that is it, no more performance models, **** the reset off


The result here clearly shows a very level mix between XR6T buyers & XR8 buyers.. Give the people would they want!!

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

What a dumb poll, nice way to load the question to get the result skewed your way, which has clearly failed anyway judging by the results. Ford would clearly not sell an XR8 for the same price as the GS, with the equipment that would be removed from GS to make it an XR8 plus the removal of Prodrives high profit level they could easily chop 5k from the price and get it down to 50k.

If they did that I would be on it like a fat kid on a cheeseburger, come the 2014 update. I will be getting something new around then and an XR6 Turbo was my original intention, but if they have an XR8 I will buy one, which would make it my 3rd brand new XR8 since the BA.

Just waiting to see what Ford do with the employee pricing on it, currently with FPV's you only get a 14% discount, but with Ford building them now there's a good chance the discount might go up to the 21% discount you get on the normal Falcon/Territory range, i'll just have to wait and see what happens.

So what you are saying is the poll is dumb because you will only buy an XR8 provided it is under $50k AND you get another 21% employee discount not available to most which would price the car under $40k or about the price of the run out model heavily discounted VE SS?

[jpd80]

It's amazing that people still think that XR8 and GS are not the same vehicle,
the switch was made at the 11th hour by FPV insisting on the GS to increase
recovery of invested money, Ford was left with no option but to drop XR8.


The original XR8 was a +$50K car but Ford was forced to decontent it because
Holden renamed the SV8 as the new SS and the original SS became the new SSV,
GS (XR8) is back at +$50K and Ford has no intention of returning to a low $40K car.

How many times does Ford have to say that XR8 and GS occupy the same market space,
Ford won't be competing with itself, you can have one or the other but not both.

[roberts]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAl3UvngjDM
use this in the GT
use the supercharged 5.0 in the xr8, not rocket science. Or mabey it is.

[roberts]

sick of people talking about dirty commador's, on the ford forums.
Just saying

[SM1DY]

Originally Posted by roberts

sick of people talking about dirty commador's, on the ford forums.
Just saying

This is a forum for sharing knowledge and ideas, it's not just about Ford's.

[jpd80]

Don't feed the troll.

[roberts]

Originally Posted by SM1DY

This is a forum for sharing knowledge and ideas, it's not just about Ford's.

funny I swear I typed FORD forums into google

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by flappist

9 months ago a bought a shiny new FG2 XR6T ute for less than any SS ute I could find and I got a car that was quicker, cheaper to run, cheaper to register, has better resale retention and has a FORD badge......

So you looked at 2 utes and bought the cheaper one.

Tell me more about why Ford should not be price matching.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Stefan

So you looked at 2 utes and bought the cheaper one.

Tell me more about why Ford should not be price matching.

Flappist wouldn't have bought an SS Ute in any case, the lower price was an added bonus.
It's also an example that Brand X is not always as cheap as claimed, only when they're stuck with unsold product.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by roberts

funny I swear I typed FORD forums into google

A discussion about viability of an XR8 but we should not mention it's competitor in the market.

Yes that makes sense.

[roberts]

Originally Posted by XrRabbit

I am looking at buying a new car, not brand new but newish.
I'm unsure on what to get, either a 6T or an 8. Not sure what series haha.
I'm learning more towards the 6T but I would love a V8

every time I see a falcon Hooning or tailgating it has a red turbo badge on the back

[roberts]

Originally Posted by Stefan

A discussion about viability of an XR8 but we should not mention it's competitor in the market.

Yes that makes sense.

my point is in my mind there is no competition

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by flappist

This really is going way off topic.

The topic is "Would you buy a $55,000 XR8 instead of a $55,000 GS?".

The answer at this time appears to generally NO which unfortunately is exactly what I suspected....

I would not buy a $55k GS or XR8 or any ute for that matter. After voting I had a look at the Holden site and can see why there are so many SS utes around. $36K or something.

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by flappist

This really is going way off topic.

The topic is "Would you buy a $55,000 XR8 instead of a $55,000 GS?".

The answer at this time appears to generally YES which unfortunately is exactly what I did not suspect....

Checked the pole results and fixed your post.

[cobramania]

I traded up from an ED XR8, to the FPV Cobra & would prefer not to go back. But my circumstances have changed & may change again in the future?

The way I see it is, if I wanted, or had to buy a new car in the next 12 months I would like another GT or GT-P, but can't afford it.
Would I buy a GS, no. The pricing isn't that much different to the GT, but I see the GS as only half the car. This means I'd have to step back from FPV to the Ford base product & would have to look at a XR6T or even just XR6. If an XR8 with the same specs as the XR6 but V8 was available, at a comparable price to the XR6 (like they always were), I'd jump at it.

If the XR8 had the GS engine, but was downspec'd to XR6 (ie GS engine in XR6 body) I do think they'd sell.

This situation is not that much dis-similar to when they dropped the V8 after the XE. The FPV's are an upmarket, high performance car & priced accordingly, but the general market is left with no Ford V8 option.

Essentially the XR8 was always the poor mans, Tickford/FPV GT (& there's nothing wrong with that). After all, the XR6T is really the poor mans, FPV F6.
If you want a V8 but can't afford an FPV, you have no option but going a Holden SS, & therein lies the problem.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Stefan

So you looked at 2 utes and bought the cheaper one.

Tell me more about why Ford should not be price matching.

Yep it was the $300 lower price that made all the difference.......

As for the rest, Ford did not make 6 cylinder rego cheaper than V8 although they DID make the 6 cylinder car much quicker than the V8.

Resale is controlled by the second hand buyers not the manufacturers.
I can't believe that you would suggest that second hand V8 buyers are tightarses and won't pay as much as second hand T6 buyers, I don't think that would be true at all.

As far as the price matching, Ford make a car that is similarly priced to the Holden equivalent in almost all cases.
The XR6 & SV6 are about the same in price, performance and economy except that there is an ecoLPi option on the Ford which is even quicker and cheaper to run.
The XR6T & SS are about the same despite the obvious advantages the XR6T has over its rival in performance and economy being quicker than every Holden available and many if not all HSVs.
The GS & SSV are about the same in price even though the GS is quicker than every Holden and HSV available.
Of course FPV then go on from there clearly way ahead of their HSV rivals.

But this gets away from your intention which is to whinge about why Ford don't make a slow cheap V8 like the Holden SS.

I am just wondering why, if slow N/A V8s are such an amazing drawcard with a huge solid market clamoring for them, WHY are they discounted so drastically so often yet showrooms are STILL full of unsold stock?

Ford once made a slow N/A V8 and found the same thing, it needed to be discounted to have any hope of selling but Ford were lucky in that they had an alternative with the T6 so with their V8 option concentrated on performance rather than price.

Holden do not so they are still stuck with the same problem......

[Sprint]

why spend 55k at ford when you can buy the same thing at holden for 38k.

I hate holdens but the SS looks better every year.

[roberts]

Originally Posted by flappist

Resale is controlled by the second hand buyers not the manufacturers.

I think manufacturers do controll the second hand market.
Bring out a model at one price, after an amount of time start discounting.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Sprint

why spend 55k at ford when you can buy the same thing at holden for 38k.

I hate holdens but the SS looks better every year.

Saying a GS is the same as an SS is like saying Jennifer Hawkins is the same as Paris Hilton.

I have just realised why holden owners put bowties on their cars.

The lion is a bit difficult to see as it drops back in the rear view mirror of any Falcon.......

[roberts]

Originally Posted by flappist

I have just realised why holden owners put bowties on their cars.

Falcon.......

tuxedo T-shirt

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by flappist

The GS & SSV are about the same in price even though the GS is quicker than every Holden and HSV available.
Of course FPV then go on from there clearly way ahead of their HSV rivals.

But this gets away from your intention which is to whinge about why Ford don't make a slow cheap V8 like the Holden SS.

OK, so there must be another stink associated with Ford as clearly based on the above Ford is the vastly superior product yet only sell a fraction GS / GTs compared to SS-V and HSV.

In respect to my "whinge", once again you're putting words in my mouth when did I whinge that Ford should make a slow V8?

Happy to have a discussion with you but when you constantly start post with "so what you're really saying" or blatantly claiming someone said something when they didn't it becomes a pointless exercise much like your ridiculous pole.

Judging by the thread content it is clear Ford misread the market with the GS as it is in no mans land in the price and specification and no matter what you like to believe sales reflect that fact. The rest is mute and we're just going around in circles.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Stefan

OK, so there must be another stink associated with Ford as clearly based on the above Ford is the vastly superior product yet only sell a fraction GS / GTs compared to SS-V and HSV.

In respect to my "whinge", once again you're putting words in my mouth when did I whinge that Ford should make a slow V8?

Happy to have a discussion with you but when you constantly start post with "so what you're really saying" or blatantly claiming someone said something when they didn't it becomes a pointless exercise much like your ridiculous pole.

Judging by the thread content it is clear Ford misread the market with the GS as it is in no mans land in the price and specification and no matter what you like to believe sales reflect that fact. The rest is mute and we're just going around in circles.

Yes more holdens sell but then more macdonalds sell than hungry jacks. It has very little to do with the actual product.

The poll was to see if it was the badge rather than the price that was the issue. Clearly it is not.
Perhaps there should have been "yes, I would buy an XR8 is it was the same price as a SS with the same discounting".

This is the exact opposite of the GT vs TE50 where what were basically the same spec car at the same price sold many times better when the badge of the new model was changed to GT. There were a lot of threads on the old forum about the upcoming "TE50 T4" that was to be released with the "AV" falcon.

When did you whinge about lack of a cheap V8 which would mean a V8 that had less capability than the current SC V8 i.e. SLOW?

How about here http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11388406

[T4ME]

So what is the main focus/point of this thread OP?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by T4ME

So what is the main focus/point of this thread OP?

Well I thought that was it obvious but as you seem to be having difficulty understanding I will simplify it for you.

The point/focus of the thread was to see if it was the actual GS badge rather than XR8 that was reducing sales of the vehicle and if there were an "XR8" version of it would it sell better.

Is it would be the same vehicle it would be about the same price and the most expensive part is he engine.

The thread unfortunately went a different way with holden trolls and others just complaining about price in the usual "mummy mummy its not fair" way.

It is interesting to note that on many many occasions you have stated that you personally are a "holden man" yet you drive a XR6 turbo instead of a similarly priced V8 SS commodore. Why would that be?