Interesting sequel to Hume Highway accident

[rag top]

interesting about how they are looking at the clients as well:

"NVESTIGATORS probing a trucking company that illegally tampered with speed limiting devices and falsified log books have moved their crosshair to the clients whose goods were transported in the trucks.

As further revelations of illegal practices at Lennon's Transport emerged yesterday, the Roads and Maritime Services said a ''chain of responsibility'' investigation would include unrealistic time and cost pressures placed on the trucking operator by its customers."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/clients-no...223-1tqme.html

[blackf6]

I drive a fuel tanker and our trucks are gps controlled. We have a special personnel tag that every time you start the engine you have to tag on to be able to drive the truck, with regulated break times also or the truck wont go. It is also electronically monitored at all times, they know where you are ,how fast you are travelling, what gear your in, if you miss shift they know it all. It also prints out and the employer and the prime contractor get copies. If there is any discrepancies written warnings are issued. 3 or more see you later.

[G6ET8U]

Originally Posted by teak81

I drive a fuel tanker and our trucks are gps controlled. We have a special personnel tag that every time you start the engine you have to tag on to be able to drive the truck, with regulated break times also or the truck wont go. It is also electronically monitored at all times, they know where you are ,how fast you are travelling, what gear your in, if you miss shift they know it all. It also prints out and the employer and the prime contractor get copies. If there is any discrepancies written warnings are issued. 3 or more see you later.

And in reality this is how it should be for all operators.

You would also be suprised what an indicated 100kph is when actually tested. We have brand new 8T trucks that are electronically limited with GPS assistance. They show indicated 108kph, reality is the maximum speed of this vehicle is 100.3kph. Do these trucks go around cars, of course they do. Yet they aren't breaking the speed limit.

Jack

[blackf6]

I go around cars too, the way we drive out on the open highway is foot flat to the floor ,my truck does an indicated 103 max. But the gps tracking say's 100. I know for a fact a falcon doing an indicated 100 is only in reality doing 97. We pass them all the time. I must say though a lot of time i overtake cars going up hill as the torque just carry's you (empty of course).

[fte50]

Rogues appear in everything in life, and whilst rogue truckies exist, i feel safer beside a truck on the Hume at 110kmh as opposed to to half the folks in melbourne sitting on 40kmh but got their license on an elephant

[G6ET8U]

Originally Posted by teak81

I go around cars too, the way we drive out on the open highway is foot flat to the floor ,my truck does an indicated 103 max. But the gps tracking say's 100. I know for a fact a falcon doing an indicated 100 is only in reality doing 97. We pass them all the time. I must say though a lot of time i overtake cars going up hill as the torque just carry's you (empty of course).

/\ quoted for truth.

Nothing changed Teak. It's just the truth.

Jack

[blackf6]

I go around cars too, the way we drive out on the open highway is foot flat to the floor ,my truck does an indicated 103 max. But the gps tracking say's 100. I know for a fact a falcon doing an indicated 100 is only in reality doing 97. We pass them all the time. I must say though a lot of time i overtake cars going up hill as the torque just carry's you (empty of course). But on topic with this company- Take them through the ringer the chain of command everyone. I can tell you now drivers don't like driving hours and hours on end to tight schedule's. If my scheduler even looks like making my run to big, she and my depo manager get a reaming.

[NudgE^SIKBRO]

So, speeding trucks kill people? 100kph is too fast for a truck? Dont get me started, I drive trucks, late 2007 Kenworth the company I work for has 19 trucks on the road, each and every one fitted with GPS and speed limiters.

I have been involved in a fatal accident. Was it my fault? Was I speeding? Was I doing the wrong thing? No, It wasnt my fault. No, I wasnt speeding. No I wasnt doing the wrong thing. I was stopped to make a right turn, some twit on a motorcycle lane split and stopped infront of me (I was first in line at the lights Why? because I stopped as soon as the amber light came on). Arrow goes green, I slid it into gear and released the clutch with no idea that ANYBODY was infront of me. I hit the bloke who shouldnt of been there from behind. How fast was I going on impact? Somewhere between 4 and 6kph.

So before you all start jumping up and down about ALL trucks doing the wrong thing how about taking a moment to realise exactly what rubbish we do have to put up with. Yes Lennons were in the wrong, Its pretty well known in the game exactly what goes on there. I had a mate who worked there and left due to some of the deadlines forced upon him.

I do believe that its not always the drivers at fault. Companys like Lennons have a reasonably high turnover of drivers because of the work ethics and most people just cant be stuffed. As stated earlier all we are trying to do is put food on the table for our familys. Yeah, I love the job, but would much rather spend time doing things I really enjoyed like chilling out in the garage playing with cars.

I have plenty more to say but at this point I wont. I will sit back and wait till somebody else jumps off the handle and has a crack about something they quite possibly have no idea about!!!

Cheers

[G6ET8U]

Brilliant post Nudge, and those that work in offices cannot even fathom what it would've been like to go through, and more than likely still be going through an 'accident' like that.

In no way do I or any decent minded person stick up for or condone what the Lennon's et all of this world do. Just remember when a truck is beside you, you are on your way to work, the shop, the gym. We are at work, more than likely 2 hours before you even got up and will still be in the same truck when you are home making dinner.

Jack

[SVTVNM]

I did my first interstate trip at the start of the week in my own little Tonka truck(Canter) Central Vic to Sydney. And I still can't work out what all the talk comes from about so many truckies being cowboys etc. I know theres dodgy ones out there but in nearly 2000klms I never witnessed anything negative regarding any of the trucks that I passed or they passed me, always hear about trucks tailgating on hume? WTF never happened in the whole trip, most of even gave a wave out as they passed and all laft plenty of space before pulling back in. Sort of goes to show that so many car drivers out there are that incompetent & have no confidence in there ability that they freak out at the smallest sign of a Semi gaining on them and being close to them especially in traffic, even I get a little edgy sometimes in heavy traffic when sandwiched in between Semi's but hell thats life keep vigilant, keep in your lane observe the rules and more than likely it will be fine. SORRY about the Rant!!!

[MITCHAY]

My mums BF is a truckie and they said that just recently they have been cracking down on the GPS's and such no doubt related to this.

What can you do though. As long as unrealistic deadlines and demands exist so will the bending of the rules.

[Grunter]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

That will only make the problem bigger for everyone else.

At least at 100 they should flow with the traffic. At 90 they cause an issue (bit like the Caravan fraternity).

Was tongue in cheek in that because of a few idiots, chances are the minority will start screaming for the government to do something and the rest of the truckies will suffer.

Normally how it goes these days.

[NudgE^SIKBRO]

I can out drive I would say about 50% of the people on the road, I have done 4 licence tests compared to the one that you, they, everyone else has to do!!!

My tests were Car, Rigid, Semi and B-Double... The last 2 were FAR FROM EASY

[G6ET8U]

As nudge has said above and to go on with it... you don't know what driving is until you have driven a 90T rated B-Double in the pouring rain on city streets with car drivers everywhere.

I think it comes down to respect for what you are doing. Remember when you are driving your car and a truck is next to you, they are at work already. Imagaine what it would be like if you were at work and some one just in order to get their stuff done quicker pushes in front of you because they are crap at their job. Go on with that analogy any way you like but it rings true.

That is what a truckie deals with on the road, every stop. Every traffic light.

Jack

[XR8 Uterous]

I'm heavily involved in two transport companies, both one a major international, one a medium sized. Both have trucks limited to 100km/h, and GPS tracked. Every time a truck goes above 103km/h for more than 3 seconds, an email gets sent to the operations staff, the general manager, and the divisional general manager, above 105km/h a warning letter is issued. No excuses. Above 115km/h is instant dismissal, again, no exceptions. Even trucks electronically limited to 100km/h will go faster if they run off down hills.

Only last week we let a driver go for his 3rd offense for doing between 105-110km/h, and this is at a time when we are short of drivers.

People say its the major players in the industry pushing drivers, and dodging the rules, these are the companies playing by rules, I can assure you that I get more pressure from people above me about compliance and safety then I do about any other issue. I can also say I have never had a customer push or hint at braking fatigue rules etc to get a job done.

[G6ET8U]

Originally Posted by XR8 Uterous

People say its the major players in the industry pushing drivers, and dodging the rules, these are the companies playing by rules, I can assure you that I get more pressure from people above me about compliance and safety then I do about any other issue. I can also say I have never had a customer push or hint at braking fatigue rules etc to get a job done.

I work for one... it is the major players.

They impose perfect deadlines for their freight. Perfect in the transport industry doesn't exist, neither do rose coloured glasses.

Car parts in my business have a time slot, overnight freight has a timeslot. Be it 9am/10am/11am/12pm guaranteed delivery. If we don't make the pre imposed deadline we fail the freight. That is where the pressure comes from. It's indirect.

Leave Enfield at 8pm you must be in Melbourne by 6.30am the following day. If you as a linehaul operator can't meet that deadline, we have a self imposed deadline KPI on that freight. If you can't meet that deadline, day after day, regardless of breakdowns, we don't use you. We will find someone who can meet those deadlines.

This is a fact.

Jack

[burnz]

Originally Posted by G6ET8U

There was also a story floating around a few years ago of a guy who could do Melbourne to Perth in 26 hours in a single.

Ended up stacking the truck. It was a Detroit Diesel V12 turbo. Apparently producing over 700hp and we are talking more than a few years ago now.

That is 11 hours quicker than you can do it non stop in a car.

Story goes the truck was capable of over 200kph, with a load on.

Jack

the truck you're refering to is mick tud... from tarc... that a silver with orange stripe W924 sar kenworth...

i peronally rebuilt that motor a GM12V71N now fitted with 4 schwitzer turbo chargers.

and for the record it generated 1495 horsepower at the wheels,,
that said i dont know the gearing of the unit so i cant say how quick it was.

[G6ET8U]

It's been a while now since I have even spoken to the guy who's mate it was.... the story was told me to me as he took his rig and loaded trailer to Calder where a racing truck had been brought here from America, purpose built truck, it got beaten, by this truck, loaded trailer in the car park, beat the racing truck then picked up his trailer and went on his way.

If you are from that ilk of trucks you would be well aware of the 'Grey Ghosts' running linehaul up the Hume.

KW... unlimited.

Jack

[G6ET8U]

I also work with a bloke (in his late 60's now) who used to drive coaches up and down the Hume too...

160kph average. He says they were more fun back then...

Jack

[tex]

I don't think a truck / coach travelling at 160 is within it's operational design limitations.

Just my opinion.

[G6ET8U]

Originally Posted by tex

I don't think a truck / coach travelling at 160 is within it's operational design limitations.

Just my opinion.

At all Tex... none of them are.

I am in no way saying that they are. Just what is trying to be now pushed out of the industry. I still remember growing up and watching a 60 minutes piece on Channel 9 about the all the deaths on the Hume when it was single lane and how it needed to be stopped. The speed of the trucks, the driving hours and the drugs.

I am not saying whether I have posted above is right or wrong, to me it is so very wrong, it's dangerous. And for what? So people can have their stuff tomorrow rather than the following day... It is what it is. This is what happens. Even still to this day.

I still wonder whether that bumper bar a car needs or that TV is worth it... but speed in business now gets you business. Transport is no different, if anything it is the first part of the speed in business that feels the heat.

Jack

[NudgE^SIKBRO]

By the way we have a strict drug and booze free policy. Hell we are even told that we MUST pull over for a smoke etc. not all company's are the same.

[Kevaclone]

First of all, I have been driving trucks, mostly fuel tankers for more than 25 years and I'd like to address some of the comments here
Read this lot, at the start of the thread I see a whole lot of emotional tripe and misinformation and stories from a mate/relative/vague memory........... I remember the V12 SAR. in fact I have/had pics of it from an early 80s Brisbane truck show. It was interesting in that not only did the bonnet flip up hydraulically, so did the cab. It tilted backwards as it sat over the top of the engine

The whole. "Send it by train" debate has been going on since the 50s when the Govt taxed and even forbid interstate road transporting of goods able to be carried by train. the real reason it's not sent by train is Logistics. Send something by road and a truck comes to your place, picks up your stuff and delivers it direct to it's destination, Simple. Send something by train and your stuff has to be sent to the rail yard(by you or someone else, at your cost) it's then unloaded and reloaded onto a train and has to wait until the other stuff from everywhere else is loaded on the train, the train heads to it's destination yard. Here your stuff is unloaded and reloaded onto another vehicle and taken to it's final destination. Now while a train is an extremely cheap and efficient way of transporting goods, the whole system is extremely inefficient and historically noted for excessive damage to your stuff

Now for an example. for decades there was a train line from Darwin to Alice Springs and a lot of freight was carried to Alice and then sent on trucks to Adelaide/Melbourne. So the Govt built a rail line from Adelaide to Alice to take freight off the roads and make it cheaper. problem was, it wasn't cheaper and the Govt had to subsidise the freight to attract customers. That subsidy was later dropped and guess what a lot of the freight went back onto trucks
Rail just can't compete with road transport for general or specialised freight
Containerized and bulk is the only thing rail is good for these days


As for speeding trucks
I myself have been passed on occasion by trucks driving well in excess of the 100 speed limit. Most notable were the 3 imbeciles in western stars heading north on the Bruce between Bells ck Rd and Caloundra turn off, first truck flew past with a thump but what shocked me was the B/Double sitting 20 metres behind him and then 100 metres behind was the third one, it was just on dusk and moderate traffic. Not long after I heard on the scanner that the Police had had mulitple calls about these clowns and no doubt they also heard it and slowed down again. What's common about these F**Ktards is they all drive plain coloured and unmarked vehicles, much harder to report a "white truck but couldn't get the rego". But I can count the number of times that has happened to me on one hand

All that said the majority of heavy vehicles are speed limited to 100 and the majority of those have GPS tracking. Any company running under Fatigue and Mass Management must have it fitted to their vehicles for compliance under the "Intelligent Access Program". They can then be audited and must show all evidence via driver's log book/daily run sheet and the GPS tracking that they are abiding by the law. failure to do so means losing their fatigue/mass management.
I was driving for Toll Liquids, their trucks are fitted with the "Tag in when the truck starts" or the buzzer goes off until you do, it's very loud and they have an overspeed alarm that goes off when you go over 105KPH you then have 10 seconds to get back under 105, if you don't a warning letter is automatically sent to you

I see in the article that Lennons had fatigue and other truck safe programs which means they should have the evidence to incriminate themselves and their drivers of wrong doing and if it's found the company directors and managers were aware of what their drivers were doing they are also going to court and jail time as they are just as responsible. Their clients can also be held accountable as many customers in the fuel industry have found out over the years.
I have done the express work and know the pressure placed on the transport contractors by the Customer. I'm talking the large Multinationals who are some of the worst offenders. Yes Toll/Linfox etc. they contract out jobs that are then subcontracted out. It's the sub contractors who go under the radar from the big companies

Do a Brisbane-Clybucca change-over run, you get 12 hours to complete the trip and it's tight, you have to go hard all the way down and back, and on the way back I was always in a long line of trucks with only a couple of kph difference in speeds with the odd one doing 10 or so kph faster. The company I drove for was sub contracted by another company that was contracted by a major European express freight company. I had to be at the depot before 5pm to load which sometimes took till 6:30 then I have to be in Clybucca by midnight to swap trailers with the Sydney truck and then be back at the depot by 6am. Missing this time slot too often(for any reason, they don't care) means your company can lose the work

In NSW it's getting harder for trucks to exceed the speed limits as they have the safe-t-cams and now the Point to Point average speed cameras replacing the old speed cameras. Similar to the Hume just past Pukapunyal to Melbourne

"Trucks are always passing me when I'm doing 100 so they must be all speeding" How often have we heard that one. What people don't understand is that the ADR for speedos changed around 2002(?). this changed from speedo accuracy for +/- 10% to just -10%. what this meant is that car manufacturers made their speedos read fast so as to meet the ADRs. the average is around 5kph fast(100 indicated = 95 actual) but can be as much as 10kph fast.(this also means the Govts can set a 0 tolerance on their speed cameras because your speedo should always be reading accurate or fast and you have no excuse for going above the limit)
Truck speed limiters are usually set on a dyno or by GPS so the 100kph limit is usually within 1% 100kph. So here you have Average Joe in his new car cruising along the highway with his C/Control(not that many use it) set @ 100 and all these trucks are passing him. How could his speedo be out, the car is brand new, it's all those bloody speeding truckies

Strange breed these "Motorists"
You know how they are, can't let anyone pass/merge or be anywhere but behind them
Picture it. Pacific motorway, Gold Coast - Brisbane, Warrigo Hwy, Toowoomba - Brisbane, Bruce hwy, Cooroy - Brisbane. All multilane roads. So here I am in my truck sitting on the limiter at 100. up ahead in the distance is our mate Average Joe toddling along doing 100(by his speedo) after a while I catch ol Joe and pull into the next lane to pass. Sometimes he's awake and realizes I'm about to pass him so he speeds up, can't have no truck passin me.
Sometimes he's asleep and it's the noise from the trailer tyres that wakes him up and he realises I'm almost past him and really floors it to get back in front. Meh so I drop back into the left lane. Ol joe sighs with relief that he's stopped that truck gettin past and slows back to his 100 again and within seconds I caught up again and go to pass again and the game starts again. this can go on for ages and usually(not always) ends when poor Ol Joe can't speed up any more as there is a slower car in front of him and I finally get past and drop back into the left lane. usually Ol joe then goes back to his 100 behind the other car and disappears in my mirrors. Such odd behavior and even more perplexing is that they will speed up in the left lane so that they are ahead of the truck when they take the next exit 300 metres ahead
This happens EVERY time I drive along any divided road and is quite comical but can get very annoying after a long day...................

And it's been a long day so I'll finish there

[NudgE^SIKBRO]

Kevaclone that whole post is spot on, its exactly the same in and around Melbourne. I do the Wonthaggi night run for the mob im working for, its 96ks from depot to drive (even less as the crow flies) but I play that same game of cat and mouse every morning. I leave Dandenong at 4.00am and at that hour of the day most of the 'Ol Joe's' are in the sleeping catogry and wake up only as they hear the trailer tyres humming along as I pass.

[OLDFORDNUT]

Originally Posted by blk6t

You should see the truck cowboys in my area, they use Bells Line of Road as a race circuit and even worse on the Putty Road.

I understand it's good to have these big haulers speed limited, but in all honesty is their much of a difference between an impact with a semi at 95km/h or 110km/h????

Alot of what happens is due to driver mentallity which appears to be driven from upper management. Sadly as long as there are trucks on the road, we will continue to see accidents of this nature.

I have done alot of driving in the US over the years and what I like seeing is on several of the big highways they have dedicated truck lanes, where trucks must drive with no cars. The government could apply a tax to truck companies to fund truck lanes on the Hume and possibly the F3, thinking as I write, but it would keep the cars and trucks seperate.

WHAT?
have you seen the rego costs of truck and trailer combo's? we in Australia have paid for a 4 lane Hi-way right around Australia paid for in full by around 1990 yet we still have dangerous single lane Hi-ways everywhere,ouside of city limits that was the promise of the Federal Labour Governments in the late 70's when they jacked us with FUEL LEVI Australia wide, NO our governments both State and Federal have kept the excise for Consolidated revenue ,another broken promise.
IF THESE PROMISES WERE KEPT THEN THAT AND OTHER ACCIDENTS WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED AS THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN ANOTHER LANE FOR THE TRUCKS TO CHANGE INTO yes even if they were doing 10kmh over the limit

[max_torq]

I think that is an important point regarding actual speed. I drive in my car on dual lane highway solely by the GPS speed, plus use the adage that no cop is going to pull me over for 4kph over the limit so it is 104/114 indicated by the GPS. The error in my BA's speedo is 7kph at 100kph. At that speed trucks aren't really an issue. But I often see people toddling along at about 93kph with a row of trucks separated by metres behind them. Don't they realise how annoying that must be... and dangerous.. to themselves. When you realize the thin margins in long-distance travel and that trucks will all have GPS navigation and know just how fast they are going. And then there is the 'Wipe off 5' speed campaign.. I just don't get how that can be safe at all.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Kevaclone

First of all, I have been driving trucks, mostly fuel tankers for more than 25 years and I'd like to address some of the comments here

Good post Kevaclone. I think properly informed people see both sides and it's certainly not black and white. For example, there is no serious argument for rail freight door to door, but the terminal to terminal container and bulk traffic is definitely one for rail. Every time I see a long rail freight go past with all those dozens and dozens of containers I think, thank god that's how many B doubles off the road! The other types of consignment - yes, that's what trucks are for.

On the safety issue I wonder why the resistance to use of digital tachographs is in Australia? They're used in Europe and I understand are fitted as standard to trucks built there but removed for Australia. It's been pointed out to me that with digital tachographs:

A magnetic card with the drivers details has to be inserted before the vehicle can be started.
Cannot be logged off and relogged on by the same driver to increase driving hours.
Records time, speed, location/position, gear changes, braking, hours in the truck etc.
Tells the driver when he is due for a rest break
Will physically slow the truck to a slower speed until the driver takes the mandatory break.
Has a computer port so that Transport Inspectors or Police can check on compliance at the road side.
Is mandatory for the owner to download the digital tachograph data to the Regulatory Authority.
Is an offence to operate with a non compliant digital tachograph.
Digital Tachographs eliminate the need for many other deterrents.

Somebody has mentioned registration costs but does the trucking industry really pay for even a fraction of damage to roads compared to rail that has to fund the whole of its infrastructure construction and maintenance? (Let's not even talk about the cost of accidents at this stage!) That's pretty one-sided and represents a direct public subsidy of the road transport industry. We're often told that the road freight industry carries the nation on its back but doesn't the nation also carry the industry on its back? The industry has been side-stepping this one for years. I remember a spokesman saying that the damage to the roads was caused by the Australian sun - amazing sun that seems to wear out the left lane quicker than the other lanes!

There are a lot of good stories from the road transport industry and a lot of things it does well but, really, the bad and inequitable stuff needs to be sorted.

[maty]

I work for one of the majors in the transport, we have there allocated time for depot to depot if u are to quick for your trip they make u sit outside till your time is up before they let you in to get unloaded. Alot of the problems are timeslots/promises to have your freight delivered by a certain time else the supplier will find someone who can do it. We do Ford at work and they are promised delivery of parts to there big dealerships in sydney before 8am coming out of melbourne the night before.

The shonky operators out there will get caught, the likes of harkers and QFM are already gone.
Lennons will be gone soon probably reopen and trade under a different name, none of the general public will be any the wiser.

The guys who run on the highway usually get paid by the kilometre/set amount, so most try n get the job done quickly as possible.
Its sad that a few minority few ruin it for everyone else.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Somebody has mentioned registration costs but does the trucking industry really pay for even a fraction of damage to roads

are you aware of the registration costs?? i believe the 'A' trailer alone is about $8k/yr give or take. b doubles can be between $15-18k/yr, give or take.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Do the drive between Sydney and The Entrance along the F3 every second weekend for the past few years to see the inlaws.

First time ever, have seen a large (B double??) truck being pulled over by the police. Every truck was also instructed to go into the weigh station. I have often seen the trucks instructed to return to the freeway, but not last night.

Seems after this they are coming down hard on truckers. As usual, many must suffer due to a buch of cowboys.....