4cyl Falcon - Who will buy one? - Page 3

flappist · 30-12-2011, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Im really curious about this.. who does the Ecoboost attract? and why wouldnt they just get a Ecoboost Mondeo?

Well you could just sit back and watch.

Over the last 6 years one thing has become very obvious.

AFF members tend to be VERY bad at picking what options, features and technology the general car buying public are willing to spend their hard earned money on.

The T4 will have more than adequate performance with cheaper rego, better fuel economy and be "green" enough for the average person. I suspect it will sell in greater numbers in the private sector than V8s and ecoLpi put together.

jpd80 · 30-12-2011, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Im really curious about this.. who does the Ecoboost attract? and why wouldnt they just get a Ecoboost Mondeo?

Because buyers are smart enough to know the difference?
Buyers wanting something different to the FWD mid sized car they are fed.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Well you could just sit back and watch.

Over the last 6 years one thing has become very obvious.

AFF members tend to be VERY bad at picking what options, features and technology the general car buying public are willing to spend their hard earned money on.

The T4 will have more than adequate performance with cheaper rego, better fuel economy and be "green" enough for the average person. I suspect it will sell in greater numbers in the private sector than V8s and ecoLpi put together.

Yes, you nailed it.

Ford are now tough masters on spending cash on new models, there must be a sound business case for EB
otherwise the cash would have been spent elsewhere and if push comes to shove, Ford needs as many
fuel efficient alternatives as possible if it's going to protect Falcon against future spikes in fuel prices.

Ecoboost I-4 is an image changer, that's whay it's hard for so may supporters to accept,
it challenges their very basic beliefs of what is really needed in a Falcon to survive.

What if we fast forward to 2016, $2.50/liter fuel and FoA offers an EB 4 Falcon at 1550 Kg giving 7 l/100 km?
Probably fails to some because it can't carry 10 people and tow a three tonne trailsr...

burnz · 30-12-2011, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Because buyers are smart enough to know the difference?
Buyers wanting something different to the FWD mid sized car they are fed.....

these same buyers, buy holden..

and according to most (AFF) they are dumb as a post, just sheep to the badge.

burnz · 30-12-2011, 08:23 PM

a bit arrogant on my previous post...

will these same buyers care what drives the wheels, front or rear??

Joe5619 · 30-12-2011, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Its not the same, as they are not in the same showroom. You have two cars, same size, same engine, one is a couple of thousand dollars cheaper and has more gear, all within 2 feet of each other on the showroom floor.

yes, but the tuning of the Ecoboost engine in the mondeo is no where near as powerfull or tortie as the Falcon one & not going to move the Mondeo anywhere near as nice as the Falcon..

However, these same 2 cars are in the show room now (with a fuel saving to Mondeo) & Falcon still seems to win...

jpd80 · 30-12-2011, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

a bit arrogant on my previous post...

will these same buyers care what drives the wheels, front or rear??

Do you understand the difference between a Mondeo and a Falcon?
It's more than just the engine....one does not replace the other.

flappist · 30-12-2011, 08:30 PM

Keep it civil guys

burnz · 30-12-2011, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Do you understand the difference between a Mondeo and a Falcon?
It's more than just the engine....one does not replace the other.

um no not really, both seat five with plenty of leg room.
towing capacity will be less for the falcon, higher fuel consumpion, less power as well..
of course this is comparered to a mondeo with the same engine..

jpd80 · 30-12-2011, 08:33 PM

Sure there's overlap there but Ford obviously feels there are sales there for an Ecoboost Falcon,
I would trust their economic research and judgement on that against any thunbnail estimates
because after all,Ford is putting up the cash to try something different.

I find an EB I-4 Falcon far more inspirational, it would have been easy to copy Holden and do small capacity I-6 or V6...
but this engine now leap frogs Holden's 3.0 V6 and really gives buyers something to think about...

jpd80 · 30-12-2011, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

um no not really, both seat five with plenty of leg room.
towing capacity will be less for the falcon, higher fuel consumpion, less power as well..
of course this is comparered to a mondeo with the same engine..

Check Ford Europe's website, you'll find both EB Mondeos and EB falcon 0-100 kph and economy are close..

Anyway, I'm not here to convince the unconvincible, if EB falcon is not for you then that's fine
but Ford sure feel there's a lot of buyers out there and that's all that matters..

prydey · 30-12-2011, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

If I was in the market for a 4cyl car I'd be looking at something smaller and sporty .. Hot hatch or the like ..

thats looking at things the wrong way around. its not for people who are looking for a 4cyl. its for people who still want/need a large car but want/are required to have cheaper running costs.

people who view this as falcon trying to cut into the 4cyl market are missing the point.

its about trying to attract some buyers back to the larger car segment with cheaper running costs, and its also about building a car that fits the criteria of many corporations these days that have strict policy on fleet cars.

jpd80 · 30-12-2011, 08:59 PM

I wonder if FoA is trying hard to match or beat new Camry's 7.8 litre/100 km

P6LTD351 · 30-12-2011, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

thats looking at things the wrong way around. its not for people who are looking for a 4cyl. its for people who still want/need a large car but want/are required to have cheaper running costs.

people who view this as falcon trying to cut into the 4cyl market are missing the point.

its about trying to attract some buyers back to the larger car segment with cheaper running costs, and its also about building a car that fits the criteria of many corporations these days that have strict policy on fleet cars.

Correct

barra240t · 30-12-2011, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConradP

It's a good idea, and by the sounds of it so far, a good engine. But I was talking with a mate at work about it, he pretty much summed up what most people would think of it. Why would you buy a 4cyl for a large car when there's a 6cyl that's in the same price range or cheaper. Allot of people just don't see the benefit or similarities between them and would think it is just a waste or it wont do as well. It's a shame really because I'm looking forward to it.

Like why is there a Toyota Camry and a Toyota Aurion?

**DFB FGXR6** · 30-12-2011, 09:10 PM

[QUOTE]
Nine times out of ten I would prefer the G6's softer suspension set up to the XR's. QUOTE]

A little off topic, but last time I was looking over a Falcon sedan brochure,in the spec section, XR6 auto sedans are fitted with G6 spec "Sports Luxury" suspention and 235/55 tyres instead of the manual XR6's "Sports" suspention and 245/45 tyres. I think this change came into effect for around EcoLpi introduction and has carried over to FG MK II, except for the tyres as 18'' wheels being standard.

As for Ecoboost, Im a massive fan of the I6 and am keen on the new V8, so for my money, Id be looking at those and not the EB4. Fleets who once considered Camry's ect will the ones that will be targeted for Ecoboost.

burnz · 30-12-2011, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Check Ford Europe's website, you'll find both EB Mondeos and EB falcon 0-100 kph and economy are close..

Anyway, I'm not here to convince the unconvincible, if EB falcon is not for you then that's fine
but Ford sure feel there's a lot of buyers out there and that's all that matters..

EB falcon fuel economy is where??
and how does a 250+kg car with the same engine use the same similar fuel useage..

remember us gallon is less than uk gallon. so if your converting use the correct math's.

mrghia · 30-12-2011, 09:18 PM

i would buy one they would be a great family/work car with my XD i dont need 2 v8's but would be nice

gtfpv · 30-12-2011, 09:19 PM

ive only read the 1st page , i will read the rest . HOWEVER . WHO ARE WE KIDDING . budget constraints will have us buying 4cyl falcons . not long ago petrol was selling at $1.70 lt in sydney , i somehow think today at $1.36. prices are going to head way north in the short years to come , think $2.29 ltr.
what will we be faced with LPG falcons or much cheaper 4cyl falcons if we're lucky . a high probability of front wheel drive taurus based falcons . if your ford blooded there will be no choice , unless you can afford a V8 aussie MUSTANG FPV .

Falc'man · 30-12-2011, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

A little off topic, but last time I was looking over a Falcon sedan brochure,in the spec section, XR6 auto sedans are fitted with G6 spec "Sports Luxury" suspention and 235/55 tyres instead of the manual XR6's "Sports" suspention and 245/45 tyres. I think this change came into effect for around EcoLpi introduction and has carried over to FG MK II, except for the tyres as 18'' wheels being standard.

Checking the website now it doesn't seem that way

jpd80 · 30-12-2011, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

EB falcon fuel economy is where??
and how does a 250+kg car with the same engine use the same similar fuel useage..

EB Mondeo is what 1550 Kg and EB Falcon is 1640 Kg - at best 100 kg...one heavy passenger...

Quote:

remember us gallon is less than uk gallon. so if your converting use the correct math's.

WTF are you talking about?
Both Mondeos are around 7.5 to 7.8 l/100 km

Ford has said that EB falcon will get 20% better furl rconomy than I-6 Falcon
20% better than 9.9 litres/100 km is either high 7s or low 8s litres/100 km

So can we please move on as I've monopolised this thread enough

burnz · 30-12-2011, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

EB Mondeo is what 1515 Kg and EB Falcon is 1720 Kg - at best 205 kg...one heavy passenger...

WTF are you talking about?
Both Mondeos are around 7.5 to 7.8 l/100 km

Ford has said that EB falcon will get 20% better furl rconomy than I-6 Falcon
20% better than 9.9 litres/100 km is either high 7s or low 8s litres/100 km

So can we please move on as I've monopolised this thread enough

fixed

Joe5619 · 30-12-2011, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

fixed

EB is much lighter than I6 so current weight is wrong when talking about EB weight!!

jpd80 · 30-12-2011, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

fixed

Sigh, Ford has said that EB Falcon is 60Kg lighter, in XT Form that's 1646 Kg.

So please stop spreading disinformation, you're starting to sound like a closet Holden boy...

I'm not going to convince you, I don't intend, it just narks me when people hatchet something positive without at least giving it a go...

Falc'man · 30-12-2011, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

fixed

You don't fix things by wrecking them.

burnz · 30-12-2011, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Sigh, Ford has said that EB Falcon is 60Kg lighter, in XT Form that's 1646 Kg.

So please stop spreading disinformation, you're starting to sound like a closet Holden boy...

I'm not going to convince you, I don't intend, it just narks me when people hatchet something positive without at least giving it a go...

not interested in miss info either..

just so you know the base mondi is around 1300kg..

Smoke Pursuit · 30-12-2011, 10:53 PM

Im keen on a G6E EB...

Another 12 months in the GT will see me all grown up and ready to have a comfy daily driver that averages under 8... Getting use to the Territory only having to fill up half as much.

Brazen · 30-12-2011, 10:59 PM

[QUOTE=DFB FGXR6]

Quote:

Nine times out of ten I would prefer the G6's softer suspension set up to the XR's. QUOTE]

A little off topic, but last time I was looking over a Falcon sedan brochure,in the spec section, XR6 auto sedans are fitted with G6 spec "Sports Luxury" suspention and 235/55 tyres instead of the manual XR6's "Sports" suspention and 245/45 tyres. I think this change came into effect for around EcoLpi introduction and has carried over to FG MK II, except for the tyres as 18'' wheels being standard.

I think that would be due to feedback from rental car operators or customers I assume? Whatever it is, its good to see Ford make running changes to vehicles.

naddis01 · 30-12-2011, 11:06 PM

The Mondeo Zetec hatch (lightest Mondeo ecoboost) according to the Ford website actually weighs 1682kg. So if Falcon Ecoboost is 60kg lighter than the I6, then an Ecoboost XT will actually be lighter than the Mondeo Ecoboost. G6 should be slightly lighter and G6E about the same.

Edit: Mondeo's weight on the Ford website includes fuel to 90% of capacity where as Falcon's weight includes fuel to 100% capacity.

flappist · 30-12-2011, 11:20 PM

The sniping stops NOW or there will be holidays.

**Fordman1** · 30-12-2011, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

not interested in miss info either..

just so you know the base mondi is around 1300kg..

Just so you know, you're wrong

Base Petrol Hatch is 1532 kg

Zetec Ecoboost Hatch is 1581 kg (which is the base Ecoboost Model).

These figures are with 90% fuel and no passengers or luggage.