OBAMA Sacks Head GM America.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by crYnOid

One thing that hasn't been considered is that if GM makes it through bankruptcy they will have much lower labor costs, legacy cost, almost no debt and a much more focused product lineup.

That will leave ford at a huge disadvantage....

Except that Ford has renegotiated with it's labour force and made debt for equity swaps that were over subscribed and now is on an equal footing with the Japanese manufacturers producing in the US. And it's quality levels have jumped enormously by independant surveys. If it could use more of it's European and even Australian based engineering brains for products now in demand by it's US customers it can hopefully ride out the storm and ride the wave ahead of it's opposition.

[3vXT]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I say...socialise eveything until the mess is cleaned up and then sell off with powerful control levers in place....

I agree (with the first bit anyway, i think a capitalist society will always get to the point we are at now before rebounding) but too many Americans have seen Red Dawn for that idea to get up.

I know its a little political and thats not really allowed on here but this is quote from a Marx lecture i was at yesterday, seems kinda ironic at the moment.

To Marx the volatile and extreme nature of the 'trade cycle', or 'boom and bust' cycle, shows the irrationality of the (capitalist) system in producing consistent and fair conditions. At certain points even the owners' interests are compromised... everyone is at the mercy of the system.

[anto]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Considering this whole financial mess started under the leadership (NOT) of neo conservatives that had blind faith in "let the market rule" without enough regulatory oversight where short term reward for outlandish investment schemes have finally fallen over like a wet pack of cards then I say...socialise eveything until the mess is cleaned up and then sell off with powerful control levers in place....

Good lord, I cant believe there are people that think like this,..socialise everything ? hey heres an idea, go live in cuba for a year and then tell me how great that socialist utopian idea is ... . yeah lets do that : unbelievable.

Heres a newsflash for you, it wasnt the "neoconservatives" as you put it, that were in charge of regulating anything in the last few years, it was the the party of Dear leader Obama , the democrats. Coincidentaly thats when things started falling apart, hmmm .Do yourself a favour, look up Barney Frank the chairman of the Financial Services Committee, Chris Dodd and his merry band of leftists. It was they who had oversight !! dont take my word for it http://financialservices.house.gov/who.html
Instead of towing the "i hate bush..neo con..blah blah, I have a bad haircut its bush's fault " mentality, dig a little deeper, free your mind, you never know you may even get some facts. Here I'll even start you off .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxMInSfanqg

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ed...ancial_fiasco/

As for bailing out GM, what is the point. let them file for chapter 11 and be done with it. They will restructure minus the ball and chain that is the unions, its highly likely to happen eventually anyway. Sacking Rick Wagoner was a PR stunt, ooh we are doing away with the big bad greedy CEO's. heres some food for thought..

" without the UAW, GM would have an average unit cost per automobile close to that of non-union Toyota. Toyota makes a profit of about $2,000 per vehicle, while GM suffers a loss of about $1,200 per vehicle, a difference of $3,200 per unit. And the far greater part of that difference is the result of nothing but GM's being forced to deal with the UAW. (Over a year ago, The Cincinnati Enquirer reported that "the United Auto Workers contract costs GM $2,500 for each car sold.")

just one link randomly picked up of the net,read it if you can be bothered

http://mises.org/story/2124

I dont care for the conspiracy stuff, you dont need it !! one only need look at what dear leader Hussein is doing in plain sight. :togo:

ps I cant wait for the new global warming tax.. yay !! because $$$$$$ are going to save the environment.. lets hear it for Obama and Rudd :alien2:

have a nice day
anto the neo-con :yeees:

[cob115]

Originally Posted by anto

Good lord, I cant believe there are people that think like this,..socialise everything ? hey heres an idea, go live in cuba for a year and then tell me how great that socialist utopian idea is ... . yeah lets do that : unbelievable.

Heres a newsflash for you, it wasnt the "neoconservatives" as you put it, that were in charge of regulating anything in the last few years, it was the the party of Dear leader Obama , the democrats. Coincidentaly thats when things started falling apart, hmmm .Do yourself a favour, look up Barney Frank the chairman of the Financial Services Committee, Chris Dodd and his merry band of leftists. It was they who had oversight !! dont take my word for it http://financialservices.house.gov/who.html
Instead of towing the "i hate bush..neo con..blah blah, I have a bad haircut its bush's fault " mentality, dig a little deeper, free your mind, you never know you may even get some facts. Here I'll even start you off .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxMInSfanqg

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ed...ancial_fiasco/

As for bailing out GM, what is the point. let them file for chapter 11 and be done with it. They will restructure minus the ball and chain that is the unions, its highly likely to happen eventually anyway. Sacking Rick Wagoner was a PR stunt, ooh we are doing away with the big bad greedy CEO's. heres some food for thought..

" without the UAW, GM would have an average unit cost per automobile close to that of non-union Toyota. Toyota makes a profit of about $2,000 per vehicle, while GM suffers a loss of about $1,200 per vehicle, a difference of $3,200 per unit. And the far greater part of that difference is the result of nothing but GM's being forced to deal with the UAW. (Over a year ago, The Cincinnati Enquirer reported that "the United Auto Workers contract costs GM $2,500 for each car sold.")

just one link randomly picked up of the net,read it if you can be bothered

http://mises.org/story/2124

I dont care for the conspiracy stuff, you dont need it !! one only need look at what dear leader Hussein is doing in plain sight. :togo:

ps I cant wait for the new global warming tax.. yay !! because $$$$$$ are going to save the environment.. lets hear it for Obama and Rudd :alien2:

have a nice day
anto the neo-con :yeees:

Well said and correct anto

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by anto

Good lord, I cant believe there are people that think like this,..socialise everything ? hey heres an idea, go live in cuba for a year and then tell me how great that socialist utopian idea is ... . yeah lets do that : unbelievable.

Heres a newsflash for you, it wasnt the "neoconservatives" as you put it, that were in charge of regulating anything in the last few years, it was the the party of Dear leader Obama , the democrats. Coincidentaly thats when things started falling apart, hmmm .Do yourself a favour, look up Barney Frank the chairman of the Financial Services Committee, Chris Dodd and his merry band of leftists. It was they who had oversight !! dont take my word for it http://financialservices.house.gov/who.html
Instead of towing the "i hate bush..neo con..blah blah, I have a bad haircut its bush's fault " mentality, dig a little deeper, free your mind, you never know you may even get some facts. Here I'll even start you off .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxMInSfanqg

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ed...ancial_fiasco/

As for bailing out GM, what is the point. let them file for chapter 11 and be done with it. They will restructure minus the ball and chain that is the unions, its highly likely to happen eventually anyway. Sacking Rick Wagoner was a PR stunt, ooh we are doing away with the big bad greedy CEO's. heres some food for thought..

" without the UAW, GM would have an average unit cost per automobile close to that of non-union Toyota. Toyota makes a profit of about $2,000 per vehicle, while GM suffers a loss of about $1,200 per vehicle, a difference of $3,200 per unit. And the far greater part of that difference is the result of nothing but GM's being forced to deal with the UAW. (Over a year ago, The Cincinnati Enquirer reported that "the United Auto Workers contract costs GM $2,500 for each car sold.")

just one link randomly picked up of the net,read it if you can be bothered

http://mises.org/story/2124

I dont care for the conspiracy stuff, you dont need it !! one only need look at what dear leader Hussein is doing in plain sight. :togo:

ps I cant wait for the new global warming tax.. yay !! because $$$$$$ are going to save the environment.. lets hear it for Obama and Rudd :alien2:

have a nice day
anto the neo-con :yeees:

I am purely and simply referring to the financial markets where self regulation got us into this mess and government money is ONLY going to save it...so if my government is going to bail a bank out or support it so that it can achieve a higher credit rating and thus provide funds to small busineses such as my own where I can employ more people by expanding using the funds provided by such institutions then by bloody god I expect the government to have some say in how these insitutions are run and regulated so that this mess never occurrs again. I may be incorrect however wasn't Pres Bush in charge and had the right of veto anytime...? And to your conspiracy links...most conspiracy's are actually major stuffs up...if the US financial markets were even as regulated as Australia's the mess would have been far smaller or non-existant and it wouldn't have mattered if it was Rudd or Howard or Costella as PM here...

Here's an example, go and try and get a $50,000 overdraft or a $50,000 credit card limit and see which you get more easily....the credit card which will be unsecured, cost you double the interest rate and require far less paperwork to apply for.....it shouldn't be that way. It staggered me I can get more on my credit card immediately then an overdraft limit increase, even with an 10 fold property value for security on the overdraft.

and thanks for all the internet links but you're right I couldn't be bothered, I'd rather deal in the real world where I'm: trying to keep my staff employed, my clients happy, my overdraft down and my family life enjoyable....cheers...

[anto]

ha I figured as much, why would you want to watch something that would contradict youre pre conceived notions.

however wasn't pres Bush in charge and had the right of veto anytime...?

...veto what ? he could only veto bills that were put forward to him, those which come from the legislative branch which also has oversight and was controlled by which party? hmmm

Conspiracy links , really ? one is a link to the govt's own website and the youtube vid is actual footage from house hearings ...hardly a conspiracy...lol

anyway whatever, believe what you want _ this is all way off topic.

[JC]

Originally Posted by Wretched

GM and Chrysler do need a re structure but I don't think the Government should have any right to sack a CEO. That should be up to the board members and shareholders.

And the government tipping in $40 BILLION shouldn't have a say - you have to be kidding.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by JC

And the government tipping in $40 BILLION shouldn't have a say - you have to be kidding.

Bloody oath they should !

The government there MUST "invest" this "peoples" money only in the case where they are sure that the UTMOST is being done to make these businesses viable. Putting too much of this "good money" after bad just means the likes of GM will only be back for more time and again.

The people running GM and Chrysler haven't made the hardest decisions that need to be made, it's time that someone pushed them into doing just that.

I say good on the administration over there for doing something to save an American Icon, and also for trying to save the jobs of as many Americans in that industry as possible. The Wagoner incident underlines how serious they are - someone had to go so a statement could be made !

[vztrt]

Seems the Volt car not viable according to Obama.

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...1-04:01-4_volt

The US Government’s review of General Motors has cast doubt on the commercial success of the Volt plug-in electric vehicle.

By RICHARD BLACKBURN.

The US Government has questioned the prospects of General Motors’ Chevrolet Volt plug-in electric vehicle, saying the car is likely to be too expensive to attract buyers.

The criticism is a body blow to the struggling car maker, which plans to make the Volt the new hero car of a greener, more progressive vehicle line-up when it goes on sale in the US in 2010 and in Australia in 2012.

"While the Chevy Volt holds promise, it will likely be too expensive to be commercially successful in the short-term," the Obama administration said in its rejection of the GM restructuring plan on Monday.

The “Determination of Viability Summary” says: “GM is at least one generation behind Toyota on advanced, ‘green’ powertrain development. In an attempt to leapfrog Toyota, GM has devoted significant resources to the Chevy Volt.”

But it says the Volt is “currently projected to be much more expensive than its gasoline-fuelled peers and will likely need substantial reductions in manufacturing cost in order to become commercially viable.”

US industry observers say the Volt is expected to cost about $US40,000 ($58,500) when it goes on sale at the end of 2010. That is almost double the cost of a Toyota Prius in the US.

The Obama administration’s reality check will hurt GM’s publicity campaign for the Volt, which has attracted widespread positive media coverage and helped to re-shape the company’s public image since the car’s unveiling at the 2007 Detroit motor show.

Unlike Toyota’s hybrid petrol-electric Prius, the Volt can run on electric power alone for roughly 60km. A study in the US has found this type of range will cover the daily commute for four out of five Americans.

When the car’s battery pack begins to run out, a conventional 1.4-litre petrol engine kicks in to recharge the car, giving it the same range as a petrol vehicle.

Holden has confirmed it plans to sell the Volt locally, with a Holden badge, from 2012.

The US report says GM still relies too heavily on big pick-up trucks and four-wheel-drives, which will come under pressure as customers continue to downsize.

“GM earns a large share of its profits from high-margin trucks and SUVs [4WDs], which are vulnerable to a continuing shift in consumer preference to smaller vehicles,” the report says.

[TUF_302]

Im just really glad Ford isn't under the control of the Gov. As the others are at the moment!

[snappy]

He is right though 60k(au) for a volt even if its a fantastic car . It would not have any advantages for your pocket.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by anto

ha I figured as much, why would you want to watch something that would contradict youre pre conceived notions.


...veto what ? he could only veto bills that were put forward to him, those which come from the legislative branch which also has oversight and was controlled by which party? hmmm

Conspiracy links , really ? one is a link to the govt's own website and the youtube vid is actual footage from house hearings ...hardly a conspiracy...lol

anyway whatever, believe what you want _ this is all way off topic.

Actually it's not off topic as it relates to government control of companies when it provides financial support...So how would you prefer the US government handle the financial markets.....provide all the support but stay at arms length and let the market regulate and control itself as has been the case for the last 8 years beacuse that hasn't blatantly worked when short term profit incentives have clouded execs decisions and led to such fabulous investment schemes as the sub-prime market. And correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the house start under republican rule when Bush was in power.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by snappy84

He is right though 60k(au) for a volt even if its a fantastic car . It would not have any advantages for your pocket.

Or the environment...(depending on what you think)

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Seems the Volt car not viable according to Obama.

I'd say his advisors are right....

Lets see $US14,000 for a Fiesta Ecotec

OR

$US40,000 for a GM Volt.

Link Here

And here

Mmmmmm.....now lets see.....I wonder which one will sell and make a profit ?

[anto]

111

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Actually it's not off topic as it relates to government control of companies when it provides financial support...So how would you prefer the US government handle the financial markets.....provide all the support but stay at arms length and let the market regulate and control itself as has been the case for the last 8 years beacuse that hasn't blatantly worked when short term profit incentives have clouded execs decisions and led to such fabulous investment schemes as the sub-prime market. And correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the house start under republican rule when Bush was in power.

it is off topic as this is about GM...not the US economic meltdown.
what i would prefer is for govt t stop running up unsustainable deficits. I dont believe they should bail out GM or anyone else for that matter ? If its a failed business ,chapter 11 is the answer. In a capitalist system some prosper, some fail..where do you draw the line ?

Subprime mortgages = fannie mae = watch the "conspiratory" youtube link . The ones to blame are the Democrats, not Bush. If you watch it you will see Republican members on the comittee (minority )actually calling for more regulation...

republicans did control the house but it was when it reverted to democrat control things started to go downhill. Not that republicans were completely free of fault...also running up deficits but nothing like the scale of the annointed one. What is it projected to be now..10 trillion ?

anyhow, I wont annoy everyone with the back and forth considering this is off topic and you werent interseted in looking at the " conspiracy " (your words ) stuff I linked to, so whats the point ?

if you are truly interested and have an open mind theres plenty of food for thought,....err I mean conspiracy stuff out there on the net. free your mind
I'll leave it at that.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

I'd say his advisors are right....

Lets see $US14,000 for a Fiesta Ecotec

OR

$US40,000 for a GM Volt.

Link Here

And here

Mmmmmm.....now lets see.....I wonder which one will sell and make a profit ?

I'm not disagreeing, but if there are morons who will buy the prius then there will be morons who would buy the volt.
BTW whats the difference in size between a fiesta and the volt, like interior space and boot capacity?

[Gaz]

anyone else noticed that Drive and carsguide have both failed to report this??

Possibly the biggest auto news in a long time and there is no mention of it on their front pages.

[vztrt]

never mind

[Bossxr8]

I said a few weeks ago the Volt will be nowhere near as popular as GM think it will. They have pumped so much money into the thing, they think it will be their saviour, but everyone knows hybrids just don't sell, especially now that petrol is cheap in the US again.

The Prius sells OK but it has the reputation to sell. The Volt won't have that, and because its a tainted GM product people will pick the Prius over it.

If GM are resting their future on the Volt they will fail miserably, thats if it even makes it into production in time. Analysists have said that their is no way the battery technology they plan to use in the Volt will be ready for production any time soon.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I said a few weeks ago the Volt will be nowhere near as popular as GM think it will. They have pumped so much money into the thing, they think it will be their saviour, but everyone knows hybrids just don't sell, especially now that petrol is cheap in the US again.

The Prius sells OK but it has the reputation to sell. The Volt won't have that, and because its a tainted GM product people will pick the Prius over it.

If GM are resting their future on the Volt they will fail miserably, thats if it even makes it into production in time. Analysists have said that their is no way the battery technology they plan to use in the Volt will be ready for production any time soon.

What's an analysist? : Just kidding. I think the Volt is an image vehicle for GM, rather than a volume vehicle. Remember the Volt is a series hybrid, not a parallel hybrid like the Prius, plus it looks a lot better. So, I think the Volt will be a much better car, and will actually save money on fuel.

[flappist]

[QUOTE=chevypower]What's an analysist? : [QUOTE]

When a GM motor vehicle own in Sydney is feeling a bit down because his shiny new GM vehicle is not going as fast as he was led to believe it would these people come and give him a firm push in the rear end.

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Will it be 4 or 8 more years of socialism?

The other guys didn't do a very good job !!