Hands free phone's illegal!!

[Smoke Pursuit]

Well where is it written that its Illegal?

Cough Cough

[prydey]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Well where is it written that its Illegal?

Cough Cough

the fact that some bloke just left court after a judge told him it was illegal, means although it may not be written anywhere, it could happen to you next.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by prydey

the fact that some bloke just left court after a judge told him it was illegal, means although it may not be written anywhere, it could happen to you next.

Yes well id like to see where its classed as being illegal and why manufacturers are factory fitting these vehicles with handsfree car kits? Is this so you can use it while your parked with he motor switched off as per the law says about using a mobile phone to your ear.

Ps. Every VE Commodore bar the Omega (option) comes with a factory fitted bluetooth handsfree car kit, if these things are illegal to use then why are manufacturers allowed to fit them?

If that was me i would appeal the case, which it seems he already has?

[Smoke Pursuit]

"However, the National Transport Commission amended Rule 300 late last year to make hands-free phones legal."

Funny also to note that all QLD Com cars are fitted with handsfree car kits, along with Judges cars and 90% of Government owned vehicles, i assume the same would apply for Adelaide.

This really is a joke.

[SDKC]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Well where is it written that its Illegal?

Cough Cough

I was going to say Road Rule 300. If you want to interpret it that far as the Magistrate in South Australia did and as Preyday mentioned.

Just because car manufacturers are fitting things to their vehicles, it doesn't mean that they are legal. As long as the manufacturers comply with the ADR's (Australian Design Rules) they can fit anything they want.

That's like fitting...........let's say tinted lenses to your car. Autobahn sell them, they must be legal.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by SDKC

I was going to say Road Rule 300. If you want to interpret it that far as the Magistrate in South Australia did and as Preyday mentioned.

Just because car manufacturers are fitting things to their vehicles, it doesn't mean that they are legal. As long as the manufacturers comply with the ADR's (Australian Design Rules) they can fit anything they want.

That's like fitting...........let's say tinted lenses to your car. Autobahn sell them, they must be legal.

Well if they arent then there should be (For off road use only) printed in the owners handbook.

This airy fairy bullshit, and as i say 90% of the Governments own vehicles are fitted with Mobile Phone kits which are used all day.. IF i was this guy id be going and taking a picture of this Magistrates car which would more then likely be fitted with a handsfree car kit.

Its also worth mentioning with our VE Calais I press the phone button on the steering wheel to answer a call, and with my Super Pursuit i press the nokia button next to the foglight button to answer a call in it, I therefore do not make contact with the mobile... :

[SDKC]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

"However, the National Transport Commission amended Rule 300 late last year to make hands-free phones legal."

Has the amendment taken effect yet, or does it come in on July 1st like a lot of other new rules?

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Funny also to note that all QLD Com cars are fitted with handsfree car kits, along with Judges cars and 90% of Government owned vehicles, i assume the same would apply for Adelaide.

This really is a joke.

Maybe they are exempt? Police are exempt in some circumstances.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Excempt, how can you be exempt when you havent got a particular ruling in black and white. Why should government plebs (yes thats all they are) be allowed to use a mobile hands free car kit while business people like myself not??

From what i can read the ammendment hasnt been put in place, but read my last point above about not actually touching the phone. The Calais example is the best as its factory fitted and the buttons installed on the steering wheel, therefore you dont have to remove your hands, and I NEVER look at the phone when im answering :

[SDKC]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Its also worth mentioning with our VE Calais I press the phone button on the steering wheel to answer a call, and with my Super Pursuit i press the nokia button next to the foglight button to answer a call in it, I therefore do not make contact with the mobile... :

Then you shouldn't be booked.

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Excempt, how can you be exempt when you havent got a particular ruling in black and white.

I said maybe.

Police are exempt under Part 19 of the Road Rules, as I said though in certain circumstances.

I don't know though for government cars or Magistrates.

[Smoke Pursuit]

I know i wont be, coz im in Sunny QLD

[prydey]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Its also worth mentioning with our VE Calais I press the phone button on the steering wheel to answer a call, and with my Super Pursuit i press the nokia button next to the foglight button to answer a call in it, I therefore do not make contact with the mobile... :

i mentioned on another forum that car kits should come out with these options so you don't have to actually touch your phone. obviously i'm not quite up to speed with the latest cars and gadgets. i would imagine these setups would be very hard to argue against. seems the poor guy in the article only got done because he made physical contact with his phone.

moral of the story is, don't position your phone cradle where it can be seen that easily by a cop riding past.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by prydey

moral of the story is, don't position your phone cradle where it can be seen that easily by a cop riding past.

Yes keep it next to your handgun, heroin, kiddie porn, anthrax ampule and nuclear weapon.....

The whole idea is NOT to find the best way to break the law without getting caught, but to make the law more sensible and reflect actual community needs rather than the whims of some namby pamby misdirected agenda driven do-gooders......

[DOC]

In todays paper it appears the laws have been ammended to allow use on hands free phones and remove the confusion on this law but the law itself has not been passed yet

[Deadman]

Originally Posted by DOC

In todays paper it appears the laws have been ammended to allow use on hands free phones and remove the confusion on this law but the law itself has not been passed yet

Pretty much what the article in the OP was saying - that the laws are ammended but not passed, hence this verdict.

[Bill_R]

For NSW the RTA has this info (http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety/mobilephones.html ):
"It is illegal to drive or ride a vehicle while using a hand-held mobile phone. The penalty is a significant fine and three demerit points.

This means that talking, sending or receiving text messages, playing games or taking photos are illegal when using a hand-held phone. It is also illegal to perform these activities when your vehicle is stopped but not parked, for example when you are waiting at traffic lights.

A hands-free device can reduce the physical effort to make and receive calls but it doesn't necessarily make it safe to use a phone while driving. It is illegal to use a hands-free phone while driving if it causes you to lose proper control of your vehicle. The penalty is a significant fine and demerit points.

If you must talk on a hands-free phone while driving:

Make sure it is a hands-free phone that is set up and working before you start driving.
Keep the conversation short. Don't engage in complex or emotional conversations.
Tell the person on the other end that you are driving and may have to end the call.
Never text message (SMS) while driving.
End the call if it is distracting you from driving.
"
So, if it diverts your attention from the road even hands-free is illegal. Where you draw that line I don't know.
The judge said:
"In his judgment, Justice Gray said Burns had breached federal law by:

DIVERTING his attention from the road.

LOOKING at his phone's caller ID display.

REMOVING one hand from the steering wheel.

PRESSING the phone's buttons with his thumb.
"
So, he said that the drivers attention was diverted from the road and therefore was an illegal use (same as with NSW).
You could apply this to anything - including operating heater controls and a car stereo. As for the "removing one hand from the steering wheel" - will we make changing gears illegal?

The impression I get from this is that the driver was trying to use a mobile without a hands free device (possibly just use it on loadspeaker). If he had a hands free device he would have simply needed to press a button (or speak) to use the phone (assuming it was configured properly) and the actions the judge ruled against wouln't be there.

[Nashy86]

Originally Posted by Bill_R

Keep the conversation short. Don't engage in complex or emotional conversations.

this is one of the key factors that influences driver distraction, and makes this a grey area, most people can handle driving whilst having a general chat on the phone about who won the footy on the weekend or whatever, but when the conversation becomes deeper and the driver has to think more about their answers, then distraction becomes more of a problem.

I'd reckon most of the time when a driver is on the phone, it is an important call regarding work etc. that must be taken now and cannot wait until the driving has finished, rather than a general chat "just for the hell of it", but where the line is drawn is a very grey area since every driver and every phone call is different.

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Ps. Every VE Commodore bar the Omega (option) comes with a factory fitted bluetooth handsfree car kit, if these things are illegal to use then why are manufacturers allowed to fit them?

That integrated Bluetooth in the VE is one of the greatest things I've seen. And I'm easily impressed. :P

But in all seriousness, totally banning handsfree? Wasn't the whole point in the first place was to stop people physically holding the phone to their ears while driving?

And now apparently you can't even have a handsfree kit where with one press of a button, you can talk to someone. This is why I like the new Commo system so much, cause you have a receiver button on the steering wheel, just press that (no fiddling round), and voila. Genius.

BTW, the new QLD P Plate laws coming in next month, mobiles and handsfree kits are banned.

[5tumpy]

Originally Posted by ken2903

flappist you do make a pretty good argument but i have to disagree.
the bottom line for me is that, if i was walking across a pedestrian crossing and there was a car aproaching, i would rather the driver wasn't on the phone.

Based on that logic, I want all pedestrians to be banned from using Ipods while walking. The number of times some halfwit with an ipod has walked out in front of me on a road without a pedestrian crossing, IMHO, stupid pedestrians are just as dangerous as stupid drivers.


The bottom line is that theses BS knee-jerk reaction laws need to be gotten rid of... The govt should take the bloody responsibility, and spend their precious surplus on fixing the major highways on Australia, than giving me a $5 a week tax break...


Labor will be just as useless, if not more, as they typically are inept at managing an economy, so don't go saying that I am politically biased...


You want to lower the road toll, lower the age you can get your L's to 15, and make driver education a mandatory subject at school... Yeah it'll cost a shitload, but how can you put a cost on the road toll? The bottom line is, the more BS laws govt's come up with to tell us what no to do, the more people are going to be finding ways around them... If the cops have this wonderful training that allows them to be able to have the capacity to drive and use a mobile, put drivers through that training too!


Anyways, that's my rant...

[DOC]

Originally Posted by The_Axe

. This is why I like the new Commo system so much, cause you have a receiver button on the steering wheel, just press that (no fiddling round), and voila. Genius.
.

Auto answer phones have been out for ages and no button to press

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by DOC

Auto answer phones have been out for ages and no button to press

Really?

I need to get with the times then :

[Big Mike]

I will continue to lift my phone from the console to answer an incomming call, and keep it brief, in preferance to blocking three lanes of traffic in a 100 km/h zone while aiming for the dirt and causing chaos like some of the morons I assume you have all seen.

* My attention is at all times focused on that which concerns me - the road, traffic, morons, pedestrians, cyclists (did I mention morons) and I am capable of answering a phone and getting the gist of why its so urgent to contact me now, and end the call, without losing focus on the world around me.

* Looking at my phone's external display, or its internal one, hampers my concentration no more than checking any one of the guages. Far more effort is required to perform mathematical calculations from my odometer, working through ICE menu system, or adjusting HVAC.

* I remove one hand from the steering wheel whenever I change gears funnily enough, and when attending to any of the aforementioned components of driving; I also rest on the console or gear lever from time to time. I have driven around Mallala at high speed with one hand on the wheel, and know amputees who drive safely.

* I simply open my phone to speak, no pressing buttons or reaching for carkits. I also devote more attention and 'digit action' to manipulating my female passenger lustfully as she lies accross the console and snuggles into me than ever I will with a damn phone.

[DOC]

Originally Posted by The_Axe

Really?
I need to get with the times then :

? um sorry mate didnt realise you were so clever thanks for your positive feedback.

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by DOC

? um sorry mate didnt realise you were so clever thanks for your positive feedback.

That little weirdo symbol was for me...

Back on topic...

[olfella]

Originally Posted by XR8Master

I think that picking your nose is a biggie, that should definitely be banned, $250 fine and 3 points

Holy cow Batman... What am I going to do now!! I think I will put the cruise on (which button was it again?) and light up a smoke... I hope I can find that window winder thingo again other wise bloody Alfred is going to get up me again... I wish that talkback radio would stop!! :

[Eb Barbie]

Originally Posted by ThoR_

They never said it was illegal they said its just as dangerous and could become illegal. Ive used a hands free while driving it is as dangerous your mind goes to the convo and not the road.

*agrees* They do take your mind off the road. But weren't they invented to be a safer option then holding your phone to your ear? So why are they now possibly becoming illegal? They shoulda thought of this in the first place. It's like giving candy to a baby then taking it from them :P

[3vXT]

Originally Posted by flappist

And what are you doing walking out on the road and just assuming the driver has seen you? Are you really THAT trusting? Really?

no i'm not that trusting and i'd love to know what exactly makes you think i would do that? maybe you need to go back and read my post again, a little slower this time.

maybe if everyone had your vast experience behind the wheel/phone this wouldn't be an issue but the thing is most people dont. if you expect everyone that cant operate a car and a phone at the same time while keeping their concerntration on the important things, to hand over their licences then you'll have alot more pedestrians to deal with.

Originally Posted by 5tumpy

Based on that logic, I want all pedestrians to be banned from using Ipods while walking. The number of times some halfwit with an ipod has walked out in front of me on a road without a pedestrian crossing, IMHO, stupid pedestrians are just as dangerous as stupid drivers.

i agree with the last bit and i've also had people walking infront of my car with and without ipods but i've had also far more people driving along, laughing into their phones while wandering in and out of their lane.

no ones saying that there shouldn't be a limit to these things, we just have different ideas about where the line should be drawn. IMO most people are not able to talk on a phone and drive a car safetly.

[MeLLy]

If something hasnt been decided to be illegal or legal then why should be get fines for it, pending a decision, if the state has passed it but not the government!?!...
Ever got one of those forms from transport sa, saying how many demerit points you've incurred in x amount of years?...and you get a yellow slip with it naming every offence you can get done for and how many points you lose?!...its a good laugh when you read it.

[XRchic]

How stupid. If using an auto answer handsfree phone kit is a dangerous distraction, then what is:

- adjusting heater/aircon/climate control controls?
- swatting a fly in front of your face?
- adjusting the stereo (radio channel, volume, CD track?)
- winding the window up or down?
- turning headlights/beam on or off?
- checking your speed on your speedo (every 5 secs in Vic)?
- waving to someone you know in another car?
- trying to find a parking space on the left side of the road?
- trying to get across 4 lanes on a highway in peak hour?
- scratching your right ear?
- checking your rear view mirror, side mirror or adjusting them?
- checking your blind spot?
- driving in heavy rain or driving at night?
- driving past a school at school times, road works or an accident?
- driving along side a cyclist?
- driving along side a bus or a tram?
- driving along side anything?!
- looking at the prices of petrol as you drive past service stations?
- trying to find a petrol station?
- sneezing?
- thinking about what you are going to cook for dinner?
- singing to your favourite song on the stereo?
- driving a brand new car/other car that you are not immediately familiar with (such as brake or clutch feel, accelerator feel, power, adjustements, wiper controls, dash controls, etc)
- stomping on the brake pedal when you think you see a speed camera, out of habit, whether you are speeding or not?

How can any of these things be less distracting than talking on a handsfree kit? In all seriousness, I would like to see policy makers concern themselves with the actual realities of driving and the realities of road safety, rather than being so concerned that they are LOOKING like they are doing something about road safety.

Token efforts, inappropriate laws, irrelevent policies and the "Here, I am such a good politician looking out for my community by introducing these cool new road safety measures" rhetoric is not fooling anyone out there and more importantly, it is not reducing the road toll or road accidents to any signficant degree....
-

[flappist]

Originally Posted by ken2903

no i'm not that trusting and i'd love to know what exactly makes you think i would do that? maybe you need to go back and read my post again, a little slower this time.

maybe if everyone had your vast experience behind the wheel/phone this wouldn't be an issue but the thing is most people dont. if you expect everyone that cant operate a car and a phone at the same time while keeping their concerntration on the important things, to hand over their licences then you'll have alot more pedestrians to deal with.

Well I re-read it.

Originally Posted by ken2903

flappist you do make a pretty good argument but i have to disagree.
the bottom line for me is that, if i was walking across a pedestrian crossing and there was a car aproaching, i would rather the driver wasn't on the phone.

No I don't think you would just walk out on the road blindly and the evidence I have to support this is that people who have been run over several times in crossing accidents seldom post on forums afterward.

The point I was trying to make is that we all have to get along. You would prefer that I was not on the phone, I would prefer you waited for me to go past.
Now why should I inconvenience myself because you won't inconvenience yourself? We all have to get along.

A pedestrian has right of way. This does not make them immortal. As I stated before, very few fatal crossing accident victims attend the procecution of the driver. Whenever I cross the road on foot I constantly watch both directions to make sure any oncoming traffic has not only seen me but is actually slowing down. I trust no one.
When I am driving I also look at people near a crossing. ESPECIALLY the ***** STUPID ***** DROPKICK ******* IDIOTS who just stand there looking all around and then suddenly rush out on the road or wait until you have stopped for them and then just wander off up the footpath.
I live is a tourist area that is full of foreigners from left hand drive countries who have a bad habit of looking the WRONG way before walking out.

But this is all part of the skillset required to be a safe driver......

And really does not have much to do with the initial subject.

[olfella]

Originally Posted by XRchic

How stupid. If using an auto answer handsfree phone kit is a dangerous distraction, then what is:
- singing to your favourite song on the stereo?
-

Ha ha, reading this reminded me of a speeding case printed many years ago in the local rag. Apparently this bloke used the defence of listening to classical music and as it was reaching a crescendo, his foot pushed further and further on the accelerator. From memory he got off because of his long history and good driving record. :yeees: