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11-07-2024, 01:35 PM | #61 | |||
T3/Sprint8
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Location: Australia
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Every single Export market they have screwed up, not recently for decades. As long as Nth Merica is OK, with what, damn pick ups. Oh hang on we can't stop Mustang might I add, the only USA OE performance marquee never to have gone out of production unlike the stops and starts of their local competitors not that thats any guernsey might I add. Most USA companies are backward and insular thinkers, no wonder someone like Musk has been able to make them look like rabbits in front of headlights re EV's, wasn't hard. Its been the bean counter company forever and its day, sure smart business but at what costs overall. You reap what you sew. jdp China been a basket case long before they looked to re invest heavily the last 10+yrs. GM/VW owned the major % of the market long long before and before the CCP/Chinese cars started Exporting. Now that the CCP have built up their brand/model Export product AND incentivised their consumers to their own brands not surprised Ford share is not much, funnily it wasn't much since I started frequenting there the last 25yrs. They bean counter company has screwed up big time, driven customers away and help other brands grow. Real sad, typical yanks with their heads in the sand.
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Tickfords T3/TS50 '02 Sprint8 manual Sept 24 '16 Daily Macan GTS "Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Abraham Lincoln" |
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11-07-2024, 03:25 PM | #62 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 807
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hi
Ford need to up the quality of design B4 before they conduct any more public testing of their products . Apprentice designers diff plugs to low . Dual clutch gear boxes Paint so thin u can see thru it Transmissions developed with all the bolt on parts being chinese / under designed = resulting in predictable failures Many parts are very simple and have been designed properly before . Not talking minor repairs but major very costly failures Luv the product but its getting harder to do . |
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12-07-2024, 07:25 AM | #63 | |||
Mad Scientist!
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Location: Newcastle
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Fortunately for us, unfortunately for others, they always seem to hire great talkers as their puppets. Remember the US way, 'Wolf of Wall Street' 'Elon Musk', awesome talkers/communicators. They could sell sand to the Arabs, on the car front, obtaining large amounts of cash under the name of 'Investment' Lose the cash, get out and start talking again. S_itty cycle of bad structure and decision making that continues today. |
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12-07-2024, 12:56 PM | #64 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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For all of Ford’s commercial failings, the C2 platform shows how many different types
of vehicles can be built under the one product envelope and in the same plant. In theory, a single flexible plant could build any of the following in whatever product mix required - Focus Hatchback - Maverick - Bronco Sport - Larger SUV like Chinese Edge - Latest Mondeo Ford’s brain is definitely broken because if it was firing properly, it would be maximising how it uses all of its C2 products to leverage efficiency and deliver a whole range of vehicles to customers in various regions. The fact that Farley has never fixed that problem is an glaring example of why Ford continually fails with supplying a wider range of affordable, desirable products. |
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12-07-2024, 05:07 PM | #65 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Hi Guys,
iam not really sure how the big wigs at Ford think. After Allan Moffat won in 1977 he was sitting in Fords head office and said "we need more money for 1978 because when Holden get beaten like they did 1977 they spend big and the new Torana A9X will kill us unless we get more money. After a matter of weeks after the big win in 1977 Ford slashed funding to Allan Moffat. His reduced budget meant in 1978 he had reliability problems and of course never finished the race at Bathurst. Like i said before not every body wants a SUV or a Ford Mustang. Ford if your reading this Bring back the Falcon and Mondeo. |
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12-07-2024, 06:04 PM | #66 | |||
T3/Sprint8
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Location: Australia
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Yep they told him we’re out actually no more funding period after that brilliant season and Bathurst 1/2. Pathetic. You know what’s funny and the slap in the face to them to this day now ?! Mustang, they are finally the only one dipping in to the stoopid Supercars who treat them with disdain and they still hang in there with egg on their faces, probably just deserved how Ford USA have treated Australia consumers not just motor sport. My last new Ford was a FGX. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Tickfords T3/TS50 '02 Sprint8 manual Sept 24 '16 Daily Macan GTS "Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Abraham Lincoln" |
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12-07-2024, 10:41 PM | #67 | |||
Thailand Specials
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13-07-2024, 07:22 AM | #68 | |||
T3/Sprint8
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Volumes Franco volumes. It was all on the nose other side of the pacific more so due to their lack of foresight long before shutting down. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Tickfords T3/TS50 '02 Sprint8 manual Sept 24 '16 Daily Macan GTS "Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Abraham Lincoln" |
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13-07-2024, 10:00 AM | #69 | |||
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which required maintenance of emission equipment and maybe different oils (?) for different cat converters A lot of the negativity about the I-6 was supposition that was dispelled when modelled on emission program available via T6. Another possible option was adoption of the 2.3 EB or compact 2.7/3.0 EB V6s. |
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13-07-2024, 10:04 AM | #70 | |||
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13-07-2024, 10:38 AM | #71 | ||
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80 or less a day (total) makes it a no brainer, there was no way investment was coming for E8 with those volumes period.
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13-07-2024, 10:55 AM | #72 | ||
T3/Sprint8
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Why I said volumes - was a no brainer.
I understand that completely - the under lying issues from way back was smarter business models regards range not just the local produced product. Ford euro models imported here too expensive. Not getting a suv ala territory into market much earlier than when released playing catch up let alone how long it took for the diesel. If I recall right Politis flew over thumping his fist in the boardroom to get that approved. It’s just been badly run business once the imports started making inroads. They rested on the laurels of the old days when Falcon Holden ruled supreme add in the politics and ROI losing heaps of market share it was a given. Again due to lack of foresight many many moons ago imo. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Tickfords T3/TS50 '02 Sprint8 manual Sept 24 '16 Daily Macan GTS "Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Abraham Lincoln" |
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13-07-2024, 12:12 PM | #73 | |||
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Free trade agreements, cheap imports, & no exports, Go figure, there is no surprise that the local industry collapsed. Eg: I know of at least one local supplier who couldn’t source raw materials at the landed price of Chinese automotive parts for local use. There is your answer: global competition as well as low volumes in a first world country, not a poorly locally run local business ( that had to do things on a shoe string budget). |
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13-07-2024, 04:01 PM | #74 | |||
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it was Ford’s way of saying no more funding for local production beyond that deadline. Sure, Ford could do this or that to extend Falcon and Territory but the sales were on life support all through FG, FGII and FGX, every reprieve was a minor victory but you know what, the moment Holden knew that Ford was definitely pulling the pin, GM waited for the first excuse to leave as well. Holden arguably did way more investment in Commodore, stationwagon, Caprice, Cruze even chased exports like the government wanted but seriously, it all came to nothing in terms of protecting local manufacturing, they pulled out in spite of all that investment. The other tell was that Toyota also pulled out of Australia and found lower cost production offshore. Last edited by jpd80; 13-07-2024 at 04:07 PM. |
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13-07-2024, 04:07 PM | #75 | |||
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I6 + AWD |
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13-07-2024, 04:23 PM | #76 | |||
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It could have gone pear shaped 8 years earlier for the local Industry. A small market, and as GM and Ford have said, local volumes needed to support investment before exports, (exports are volatile volume wise), that local volume really required a minimum of 120,000 units out of each assembly plant. Everyone here can do the math. Remember a 4 billion dollar vehicle program (yes that is what it takes for a ground up new vehicle), needs to be amortised across the sales volume for that program. So each vehicle built needs to carry the cost of development and tooling to make the program justifiable. If that vehicle then becomes too expensive (theoretically) to compete in the market it can’t go ahead. That is what happened to Falcon and Territory unfortunately. |
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13-07-2024, 04:43 PM | #77 | ||
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Everything was critical, Ford worked on project 123 V6 engines for a while
but once it showed Euro IV I-6 was $20 million,it diverted some of the failed Focus manufacturing fund ($30 million) to that and done deal. Asian markets refused to buy an Australian manufactured Focus so the export plan collapsed, the same way Territory exports did, Asia only wants to sell to us and have plants and jobs in their countries, they get the value adding not us. Polites said government funding was critical to FG and without it, Ford would have Just upgraded B Series and probably exited by 2010. |
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13-07-2024, 04:59 PM | #78 | ||
Ford screwed the Falcon
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,228
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Don't tell us what we should buy. Build what we want to buy.
FORD - can't get anything right!
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Falcon: 1960 - 2016 My cars Current ride 2016 FG X XR6 - 6 speed manual Previous rides 2009 FG XR6 - 6 speed auto 2006 BF MkII XT ESP - 6 speed auto 2003 BA XT V8 - 5 speed manual 1999 AU Forte - 5 speed manual 1997 EL Fairmont - 4 speed auto 1990 EAII Fairmont Ghia - 4 speed auto |
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13-07-2024, 05:13 PM | #79 | ||
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13-07-2024, 05:14 PM | #80 | |||
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13-07-2024, 05:26 PM | #81 | ||
Ford screwed the Falcon
Join Date: Sep 2013
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Falcon: 1960 - 2016 My cars Current ride 2016 FG X XR6 - 6 speed manual Previous rides 2009 FG XR6 - 6 speed auto 2006 BF MkII XT ESP - 6 speed auto 2003 BA XT V8 - 5 speed manual 1999 AU Forte - 5 speed manual 1997 EL Fairmont - 4 speed auto 1990 EAII Fairmont Ghia - 4 speed auto |
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13-07-2024, 07:55 PM | #82 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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and yet be unable to supply anything else in decent numbers… The vehicles that would probably do well here are behind a LHD only wall - Maverick Ute - Bronco Sport - Chinese Territory Sport (2-row soft reader) - Chinese Equator (3-row soft reader) Rumours persist that Territory will be sold in South Africa as RHD but I can’t get confirmation… but if that is true then Equator RHD is a near cousin and wouldn’t be a big added step… |
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14-07-2024, 02:32 AM | #83 | |||
T3/Sprint8
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Yes good info Ford1, my main point is just as you mentioned we running on a shoe string for so so many years - ford USA not wanting to put in more and understand why, in a losing market but my sadness is why didn’t they both on better and affordable offerings long before the path of no return. Granted a lot went against local manufacturing as has been mentioned. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Tickfords T3/TS50 '02 Sprint8 manual Sept 24 '16 Daily Macan GTS "Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Abraham Lincoln" |
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14-07-2024, 09:19 AM | #84 | |||
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simply group cars and SUVs with what was being produced in RHD for UK and then not supply. So glad Australia got the T6 contract, brought in a lot of local engineering work and plenty of say in getting vehicle designs right for our market. So honestly, very little choice except to double down on Ranger and then Everest, sales of those two are massive. I just hope that when (not if) Ford gives up on making cars in China, our region benefits by reusing a few of those vehicles in a Thailand production plant, Territory Sport and Equator are two vehicles that would make a big difference in our market, especially with hybrid versions. Last edited by jpd80; 14-07-2024 at 09:26 AM. |
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14-07-2024, 12:31 PM | #85 | ||||
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Why would you build at Ford Australia who can only produce 60,000 cars annually at maximum capacity when you have Thailand in your back yard who can do 400,000+ and for bowl of rice a month wages? Then the federal government incentivised it with a free trade agreement. Same thing happened to our tyre manufacturing industry, if you're interested in a read check out what south pacific tyres had to say about the whole drama. Quote:
If Ranger and Everest supply was threatened like the Euro models are, do you think Ford Australia would sit on its hands and say 'oh well'? Or would they try everything within their powers to rectify the situation? Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 14-07-2024 at 12:37 PM. |
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14-07-2024, 12:43 PM | #86 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Name me one politician with any reasonable level of power in Australia that has one ounce of manufacturing skill, knowledge or experience....and the understanding that the skills training provided in a manufacturing industry has a web of cross-linked people-skill that can feed into other areas...
When I was at Monash Uni, the manufacturing industry held interviews and subsequently offered jobs to students before they even received their final results.... |
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14-07-2024, 12:55 PM | #87 | |||
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14-07-2024, 01:07 PM | #88 | ||||
Thailand Specials
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Which they invited industry to contribute to, provide feedback, then subsequently ignored it all and made their own decisions. Thats South Pacific Tyres talking to the federal government in 2002. Then again in 2005 over a proposed Chinese-Australia FTA (see what is now CHAFTA) A review of the Thailand - Australia FTA by a university: Quote:
You don't need to be an expert in something, you just need to recognise, take feedback from and make your decisions on the advice of those who are - being a politician, is the same as being a good manager, its all about relationship management. They opened up to consultation from the industry, and then ignored it. If anyone actually wants to debate this from an informed position, plenty of information out there from 20+ years ago that appears on the first page of Google, all from manufacturers who are now long gone. Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 14-07-2024 at 01:21 PM. |
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14-07-2024, 01:12 PM | #89 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Hi Guys,
As a young kid ive always loved cars. when i was 5 years old going out for a drive with my old man i could tell him the makes and model of the cars on the road. It makes me sad to see how our car industry has died in this Country. In the early days a CEO of Ford Australia called Bill Bourke changed things. He loved the v8s after driving a XR police pursuit car he decided to produce it as a GT. They made a big thing about when the Ford Cobra came out but there was about 400 2 door body shells left over. It was the brainchild of Edsel Ford to use the those left over shells. Mind you they weren't any faster then your normal 5.8litre v8 ford but looked great. We still live in the best place in the world Australia but Ford have let some great cars slip between there fingers. Ford LTD, Ford Fairlane, Ford Fairmont, Ford XR6 and XR8, Ford Falcon and Ford Station wagon, Ford Mondeo once the best selling car in the UK. There's some that i may have for gotten so sorry. Ford confirmed 600 jobs were lost when Broadmeadows and Geelong closed all manufacturing workers. It makes me sick that the big Companys in the states have the say and the silly Australian Goverment goes with it, instead of standing up to them and saying no. Chrysler in the Sates was in financial strife and sold the Chrysler plant to Mitsubishi between 1979 n 1980. They probably said " they dont need Chrysler plant in Australia lets just close it because we dont know how to mange our money'. |
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14-07-2024, 01:52 PM | #90 | |||
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And yes I know some will say you didn't have to experience it to understand it, but by god if you did understand it better wouldn't decisions at least have some balance rather than self-interest always taking over. |
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