![]() |
|
Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated. |
|
The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
![]() |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
![]() |
#31 | |||
bitch lasagne
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sonova Beach
Posts: 15,110
|
Quote:
![]() I do like the comedian's (seated on the far right) rant shortly afterwards. Anyway back on topic ![]()
__________________
|
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
This user likes this post: |
![]() |
#32 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,854
|
Quote:
Cars are produced on Platforms these days, shared across models and even different makes. Ford & Holden Australia bucked the Global trend. Toyota I'm not sure about - it has to be just about cost for them.
__________________
______________________________ 2015 Territory Titanium RWD Diesel - SOLD 2016 BMW X5 xdrive 30D Msport Seadoo Challenger 210SE 310HP |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
This user likes this post: |
![]() |
#33 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mornington
Posts: 2,136
|
Quote:
GT450 |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
This user likes this post: |
![]() |
#34 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 74
|
So what are we going to have to buy once falcodores aren't available? All I want out of life is a nice, reasonable priced, I6 (although if I'm forced to a commonwhore I'll settle for the V), RWD rolling armchair, that's built to last, cheap and easy to work on and with enough poke that I can tow a trailer and still get past ********* on the highway. Nothing else fits the bill as far as I know :(
|
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#35 | ||
Powered by Marshall
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,138
|
Chrysler 300C
Or take your pick from 10,000 used Falcons under 3 years old?
__________________
Powered by Marshall |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
This user likes this post: |
![]() |
#36 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,854
|
I find on this forum a lot of people having a whinge about the loss of the Falcon, are not even in the new car market.. and have years of 2nd hand cars to choose from anyway.
__________________
______________________________ 2015 Territory Titanium RWD Diesel - SOLD 2016 BMW X5 xdrive 30D Msport Seadoo Challenger 210SE 310HP |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
7 users like this post: |
![]() |
#37 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 477
|
The root cause is lack of economy of scale and our distance from markets; together with the fact that none of our manufactures were locally owned. Germany has higher wages than Australia and provides greater government assistance.
|
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#38 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,290
|
Opportunity cost.
To invest n a next generation Falcon would cost close on $700 million and if you co-deverloped territory at the same time perhaps $1 billion dollars. Now, given the rather low sales rate of local Falcon and Territory, the very best you could hope for is to pay back those up front product cycle costs. When Ford chooses not to invest that billion in next gen product cycles, it is freed up to be used localising other global products for sale here but more importantly, not spending that amount in the first place frees up that funding elsewhere in the company for a better return. |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
This user likes this post: |
![]() |
#39 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NSW
Posts: 4,325
|
Quote:
I want a mid to large dual cab ute with a turbo diesel V8 for a reasonable price. But that doesn't exist in Australia so I buy other things. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#40 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Richmond, VIC
Posts: 1,668
|
|
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
This user likes this post: |
![]() |
#41 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Perth WA
Posts: 1,204
|
New2Ford, XWGT have the correct answer. Back in the GFC, Ford had too many platforms, all of which required continuous development so straight away, Ford where always behind the 8 ball compared to Toyota, Nissan, Mazda etc
Mullaly introduced the "One Ford" concept and chose the best platform for the jobs required, that meant some models had to die. The US Focus went, replaced by the Euro Focus and a few years back, the US Fusion (on the CD3 Mazda platform) was dumped for the Euro Fusion (CD4 Ford platform) for example. The Falcon/Territory are orphan platforms and in the dying large car category so One Ford killed them. Most of the reasons mentioned by others in this thread are essentially reasons why vehicle MANUFACTURING has died in this country. |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#42 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,819
|
Quote:
I spend my life blowing up at people's short sightedness can't wait for this to come in http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/cons...s/default.aspx hoping it will help educate people and make them start to think about the consequences of their purchasing decisions I always say to people, would you rather give $1 to a mate, or 90c to a stranger? |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
This user likes this post: |
![]() |
#43 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Perth, Northern Suburbs
Posts: 4,914
|
The Falcon was and is a damn fine car.
Fact is that FA could still be selling more of them, but they have been in "closing down mode" for several years now. Sure, its nolonger Australia's top selling car each month (But STILL Australia's "Top Selling Car" of all-time) but they still sell more than many other cars. If the Falcon was selling allover the world, in proportionate numbers, it would make sense for Ford to keep making it somewhere. We'd either get them from a NA factory in Mexico, or from Thailand. But even at its most recent peak, Falcon production was nowhere near the global volume required to be viable in the modern market. The question about a niche market has some merit. There are manufactures who target niche markets, and they do so profitably. But in any field, be it cars or white goods, that's NOT what the big players do. They basically fight for a slice of the largest markets. In a way, we should be grateful that the Falcon lasted as long as it did, and in its traditional form. Ford could have started morphing the Falcon long ago, to the point where it was a medium-large FWD sedan with a big 4 or compact V6, and we would barely have noticed when they started being imported from Thailand or SA. Part of the contributing problem, is that once Ford sold off Jag, AM, & Volvo, and moved all their big NA cars to FWD, they nolonger support a large RWD platform. To the extent that FA had to develop their own platform, the E8, for the FG. That was never going to be sustainable long-term. There was talk at one point of moving the Mustang to a common RWD platform, which would have kept development alive, or even simply building a 4 door saloon on the Mustang platform. But I can imagine the Mustang development division would be powerful and would have jealously guarded their crown jewels. Ultimately, Ford have decided to retire the Falcon nameplate for socio-political reasons, and I applaud that. From FA's perspective, the current large RWD sedan will be replaced by the Mondeo/Fusion, a largish FWD sedan. The Terry will be replaced by the Everest and possibly a RHD version of the Flex or Explorer. (Which may even carry the Territory name.)
__________________
2024
Time to Make the Hippies Cry Again |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#44 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,112
|
Quote:
SIMPLE? ![]() Actually, in reality it's due to a huge number of complex and interwoven reasons, but according to you its simple? The length of your own post contradicts that straight off the bat. There are elements of truth to everything you've said, hence the positive response to your post. But the reasons you've listed vary from minor to all but irrelevant when compared to the main reason we're losing our industry - and that is because we never had one! It was always owned by offshore interests with no interest in Australia or Australians. It was them who decided their bottom line would improve if they closed little ole aussie down (in large part due to government policies - like I said, interwoven... And you mentioned this also) so they steered our industry to its demise via decades of carefully planned product decisions which made blaming the closures on all kinds of reasons except the real ones the eventual outcome. Simple hey. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
This user likes this post: |
![]() |
#45 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In Front of a Monitor
Posts: 1,645
|
At least Ford hasn't given up on the Territory.
Instead of employing a whole factory of people to make and assemble them locally, they will employ a person or two to remove Edge badges and replace them with Territory ones as they arrive off the boat.
__________________
2004 Mercury Silver Falcon XR6T - 5 Speed 2017 Platinum White Mustang GT - 6 Speed 2022 Blue Thai-Special for Daily Duties - Auto |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#46 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 2,009
|
Quote:
Right now I'm into FPV utes. Maybe in years time I'll get into WRXes or something thing, but if I want a late-ish model ute in 10 years time then I'm stuffed (ie something that's not 4WD style).
__________________
Click here for my previous Photo Essays and Build Threads.
------------------------------- Good people. Bad people. Smart people. Dumb people. Car crashes. Vomit. Read about it all at Cabloid, the web site that has stories and photos about my life driving a taxi at night. www.cabloid.com.au |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#47 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,073
|
Quote:
https://www.redarc.com.au/ Also I'm a distributor for Century Batteries and stock wise I'm one of the top two businesses who carry biggest range of their products in Victoria: http://www.cyb.com.au/home They're locally designed and made products, but everyone starts squealing about price, yes REDARC products are more expensive than their competitors, but its good stuff and a lot of it is made locally. Same thing with Century batteries, if its got a blue and yellow case, its made in Brisbane, and they've been making batteries since 1926. But again price, people don't want to pay what it costs for locally manufactured products, they squeal ***** and cry about it because they can save $20 by buying some cheap BS from Thailand, its 'too expensive' to buy locally made products. But they're the first to whinge and complain if their job gets outsourced. Its always an up hill battle with these people I face daily. One of my customers today told me the caravan manufacturer who made his caravan said to him he doesn't use REDARC products because they're too expensive, well mofo why should I buy a caravan you make when I can get some Chinese person to make it for 1/10th of the cost you can? |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#48 | |||
Donating Member
![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,673
|
Quote:
As if they'll be fitting badges here ... |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#49 | ||
If it ain't broke........
![]() Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Sunshine Coast Qld
Posts: 18,579
|
Funny how DRZ250 (Hulk) starts threads then disappears....
__________________
Visitors welcome Relatives by appointment only |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
2 users like this post: |
![]() |
#50 | |||
bitch lasagne
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sonova Beach
Posts: 15,110
|
Quote:
(insert table thumping here)
__________________
|
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
2 users like this post: |
![]() |
#51 | |||
Cynical Idealist
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Orlando, FL, USA
Posts: 1,512
|
Quote:
But the rest of your post was spot on.
__________________
Your plastic pal who's fun to be with! |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
This user likes this post: |
![]() |
#52 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,819
|
Quote:
simple concepts often require the most explanation, so your assessment of his post is very flawed if everyone bought local when they could, then the rest would work itself out governments would be forced to follow the publics preferences or risk being voted out retailers and producers would be forced to use local stuff themselves because they'd know they wont sell as much if they don't companies wouldn't move manufacturing offshore, as they know people would stop buying your statements about foreign ownership are equally flawed from an economic perspective foreign ownership of local manufacturing is a wonderful thing the manufacturing process is where the wealth is created, not the delivery of profit to owners; whilst its nice if profit stays local it is nowhere near as important this is because economic value, measured in GDP, is created by value added the tiny amount of profit that flows offshore pales compared to the overall revenue that the industry creates, most of which stays in our economy as value added all the intermediate and primary goods purchased, all the supporting industries kept in business, supply chains both up and downstream, all the people employed in the actual manufacture and support, onshore management structures, onshore admin, onshore hr this is all good stuff for the economy you are in fact actually part of the problem you are creating disinformation, and making readers dumber, by try to distract from someone's well intentioned attempt to educate people to create better outcomes you should try reading a book before you gob off about stuff you know nothing about if you don't understand the concept of GDP, economic value and growth etc, and the impact of different activity on the same, just believe that this SIMPLE statement, could save everything buy local if you can |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#53 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 540
|
Quote:
Itd, big damo and you are right on the money. It's the same sort of thing our farmers are facing. Today it's the dairy industry. Not to long ago it was the fruit and grain growers. Before them the sheep and beef farmers. Tomorrow it will be the poultry farmers. If like our industrial industries we don't support all our primary producers then they too will struggle to exist. In the agricultural sector I know there is more forces at play in this, eg Aussie dollar and world supply and demand, climates etc but It's time we all realised that when you buy Australian you support Australians. If we follow that rule then it will surely help and as you said, Goverments, Coles, woollies and greedy company executives will soon get the hint. And all us Australians will be a lot better off. Last edited by hootar; 08-06-2016 at 12:56 AM. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
4 users like this post: |
![]() |
#54 | ||
Powered by Marshall
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,138
|
Sorry while you may get strong local profits you get zero innovation or research and development as companies are lazy without competition.
Do you seriously think FPV would have spent $40 million developing the BOSS 335 if HSV didn't exist? We'd still be driving 185 kw Windsor and be told we where lucky! The old nationalists economic argument is great for the heart strings but the global economy has proven it to be a fairies tale over and over in the last 20 years.
__________________
Powered by Marshall |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
2 users like this post: |
![]() |
#55 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Wollongong
Posts: 3,111
|
i watched the history of holden on youtube (Quantum TV show 1986), it showed through the life of holden up to 1986 they struggled pretty much every year, and from what i got from it, it was the yanks wanting us to make more money and do things their way.
we couldn't have have the manufacturing they had due to our lack of volume of sales the yanks set the prices, the yanks made all the decisions. We need an Australian company to take over and start building falcodores and torantinas, a RWD mid and large car with a ute and wagon and keep all the money and decisions here.....but that just my dream it won't ever work
__________________
CURRENT RIDES BA GT Mk1 #0009 - Narooma Blue SY Ghia AWD Black VZ LX8 Adventra Holden HX 50th Anniversary AU Saloon Car racecar 1980 GS1000ST - Wes Cooley Rep
|
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#56 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,854
|
Quote:
http://www.motoring.com.au/edge-to-t...rritory-47762/ I'm not hung up on nameplates and would prefer it to have the correct Edge name. But I guess if it did it would stop all the people thinking the Everest is the Territory replacement. ![]()
__________________
______________________________ 2015 Territory Titanium RWD Diesel - SOLD 2016 BMW X5 xdrive 30D Msport Seadoo Challenger 210SE 310HP |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
2 users like this post: |
![]() |
#57 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,112
|
Quote:
Firstly, you're completely right - if everyone bought local at every opportunity then the market would follow suit. That's basic free market economics. But focusing on the auto industry, why do you think it is that people haven't been buying local? Fickle tastes, buyers blindly following trends buying inferior cars? That may be true, but it's a free market. The manufacturers that adapt and shift to suit the market will survive, the ones that don't, won't. Ford and Holden chose not to adapt - they kept building cars that haven't been popular for over a decade. But it wasn't Ford Australia or Holden that made that decision - it was made for them in Detroit. Ford have wanted to pull out of Australian manufacturing for decades, that's no secret. They weren't able to however because the local product was so popular (which backs up your & LTD's theory) Ford Australia even convinced Detroit to be allowed to build the Territory, an example of adapting to a changing marketplace. All good so far. But as the market continued to fragment and evolve, FOA actually stripped back their offerings and froze development on the Territory. Detroit knew exactly what they were doing - offer less choice, and less popular ones at that. Local sales predictably nose dived. This allowed them to pull out of local manufacture. What else would they do, sales are dismal! No one's buying local! Ford in Detroit get what they wanted all along - a cheaper place to build cars. (And this relates back to the government aspect LTD talked about in his post. I could talk about that for hours as well, I've read a few books...) Why all the smoke and mirrors and boardroom scheming? Why not just close it down? Transitions like this are tough. Closing a factory shines a bad light on the brand. It has to be managed very carefully. If everyone kept buying Falcon sedans, wagons, utes, vans, Fairlaines, LTD's, and Territory's in 1990's numbers, they would have kept building them. But should the buying public really be blamed for not buying a car that's utterly unsuitable for their needs? If we had our own industry, locally owned, they would have adapted to the current market, but FOA were never allowed to. Forget about where the profits (and losses) flow from our foreign owned auto industry. For the purpose of this discussion that isn't so relevant. What is relevant is where the big product decisions were made, and why they were made. Understand that and you'll understand why Ford are really giving up on Falcon and Territory. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
This user likes this post: |
![]() |
#58 | |||
Boss 335
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,330
|
Quote:
|
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#59 | |||
Boss 335
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,330
|
Quote:
|
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
This user likes this post: |
![]() |
#60 | |||
Mr Polish
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Across the road from Speedway City
Posts: 1,977
|
Quote:
Some of today's generation just want cheap, all they hear on the radio every day is cheap cheap cheap. But a lot of it is crap stuff It started with the rug sellers then harvey Norman, now it's national tiles and that frank ******. All they care about is the price and many people just don't think about what it's costing them. Like buying home brand milk instead of Paul's or the really good stuff from farmers markets To most it's justmilk, no difference. To me, I like the quality stuff and supporting local dairy farmers In my industry, a detailer can buy A really cheap polisher for fifty bucks But can he do work as good as me with eleven Japanese and German made machines that are built to last and one cost me 800 dollars and is the worlds most advanced of its type. The latest ones are built like tanks and worth every dollar I paid for them. Yet some would rather buy ten fifty dollar polishers than me buying one to last as long My work will be superior, faster, eliminates the need for cutting compounds and same price or only a little more The Asian tv manufacturers killed the tv and video service industry with their, we no like service speech at a convention several years ago. It's gone from make a great product that lasts years or decades and building a reputation of reliability to make it cheap and make them buy it over and over again
__________________
Detailology colour fx detail studio and R&D Lab SA's leader in auto detailing and paint treatments Last edited by SVR73; 08-06-2016 at 11:22 AM. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
This user likes this post: |