I have a mate...

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by fgpsi

Boys vcm did it

It's a black ex cop car, vcm did say they were surprised at how low the gain was

Is this the same VCM who got caught out for BSing dyno results with the GT-F/GTS comparison?

[Falcman0o7]

Originally Posted by commonrails

Everyone know's that it's 220kW without a chev badge and 250-270kW with a chev badge.

If he has 4 chev badges no one will even be eclipsed by the shadow of his VE Superdoor...

[GSPSI]

Chev badge jokes are old.
But i do know someone with a c63 that will blow doors off. ;) hehe

[fgpsi]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Is this the same VCM who got caught out for BSing dyno results with the GT-F/GTS comparison?

Yep

[PepeLePew]

I remember when I had my VX 220rwkw tuned and exhaust. Heads cam brought that to 287. Manual. Doesn't sound farfetched 270 a tune and exhaust with the 6L with the time they've now had tuning these things. But it'd be on the better side of average.

[AGS302]

My 5.4 GS pulls 270.5rwkw with Intake, Cat Back and Tune.

[lucas2]

Also turning the AFM off gives it a bit more grunt iirc.

[zilo]

Dunno why the car makers don't just visit chat forums to get 50% more out of their engines.

[Dave R]

Because chat forum participants only tend to want power, whereas a manufacturer will balance that goal with stuff like economy, driveline longevity etc etc. AFM is a good example.

[LoudPipes]

My mistake, of course an SS isn’t capable of making 270 at the wheels with an exhaust and tune, it is after all a Holden being discussed on a Ford forum.

270rwkw is nothing in this day and age of performance vehicles, barely entry level performance if that for most but still people are up in arms when someone says a severely factory hobbled 6 litre V8 can’t make decent power when unlocked by a good exhaust and tune. What a carry on.


KPM Motorsport offers on it’s website for the VE Series 6 litre this package among many others.

KH03 Package 2: Increase to 350 Fwkw
Streetfighter 4 into 1 Performance Headers
StreetfighterKPM SLC Full 3 inch 304 Stainless Steel Premium Exhaust/Custom Hand Built
Streetfighter Stainless Steel Mega Cats/ Quad Staninless Steel Tips
Streetfighter Over The Radiator Cold Air Induction System
Full Streetfighter Customised ECU Tune on Dyno

With a 20% driveline loss in a manual that's 280rwkw.

A lot of other Tuners also offer the same.

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by zilo

270 kw at the wheels ...50kw at the wheels extra on a NA engine with just exhaust and tune...no cams, no bigger injectors etc?

I say BS...

There's nothing wrong with the injectors in a 6 litres unless you are going forced induction or getting really serious. They don't even bother to change them for most cam upgrades.
A valve spring change is required but not injectors.

[Nova 8]

Originally Posted by GSPSI

Chev badge jokes are old.

Got a photo of a falcon with chev badges on it the other day....Just for something different...

[FPV+fteT3]

I have heard plenty of both holden and ford V8 owners quoting how many kw their car has and how fast it is and how it could beat anything since the cat back and miracle tune done at wallys world netted 350rwkw. In reality most of these could be blown away by a Prius with a fully charged battery. Its the ones who dont have a ****ing contest about how quick their car is that usually have the fast cars.

[HULK_I6T]

Originally Posted by blueoval

Wait's for HULK to queue in his 'supercharger/turbo' shpeel.

Take it to the track and show him whose boss with the F6. /end thread

Sorry im late.. how did miss this thread?

give the commodore guys a bit of slack..

their comments are probably relating to the 5.4 cars of the b series and fg.. its a fact that mod for mod the ls1 and the 6.0 ls cars easily picked apart the 5.4 cars..(and all the windsor v8s)

but to say it in the company of an i6t or miami v8 shows his information is out of date.

I wouldnt swap my i6t for a ls holden/hsv but in return if I owned a ls holden/hsv (I do actually) I also wouldnt swap it for a ford/fpv.

Fords/fpv are different not necessarily better.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

My mistake, of course an SS isn’t capable of making 270 at the wheels with an exhaust and tune, it is after all a Holden being discussed on a Ford forum.

270rwkw is nothing in this day and age of performance vehicles, barely entry level performance if that for most but still people are up in arms when someone says a severely factory hobbled 6 litre V8 can’t make decent power when unlocked by a good exhaust and tune. What a carry on.


KPM Motorsport offers on it’s website for the VE Series 6 litre this package among many others.

With a 20% driveline loss in a manual that's 280rwkw.

A lot of other Tuners also offer the same.

From the KPM website forum...
Talking about a package to get...wait for it...520kw on a VF GTS

"You guys engine dyno these in house?"

All our testing is carried out on our in-house chassis dyno. It has a feature that calculates flywheel power and torque .



How nice.....

[marty351]

All these killowatts will tease commodore drivers to chuck a few skids in front of the mates before a quick dip in the neighbors pool.

[LoudPipes]

Yeah, some drivers think they can take a dip anywhere.

[99AUXR]

I knew the AU front end was bad but still . . . .

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Because chat forum participants only tend to want power, whereas a manufacturer will balance that goal with stuff like economy, driveline longevity etc etc. AFM is a good example.

The L76 has had AFM capability since they used it originally in the Commodore (VZ?) but they never used it up until they introduced AFM in the VEs. I think the difference between the AFM engine and the normal 6L SS engine is that the AFM variant is the L76 and the regular version is the L98, different valve train.

I'm not too sure on GM's petrol stuff.

If you want to change the cam I'm pretty sure you have to disable the AFM by changing lifters etc.

I'm considering a move to the Caprice V when the Focus sells, unfortunately you can't take Holden's car and have the I6T in there

[Falcon SXR8]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

Yeah, some drivers think they can take a dip anywhere.

image

Don't worry after pulling it from the pool they fired it up and drove too the local dyno.......it only pulled 270rwkw

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I'm considering a move to the Caprice V when the Focus sells, unfortunately you can't take Holden's car and have the I6T in there

Plenty of falcons now run ls motors, and a few commodores are running i6t's these days, so I reckon do it.....

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Plenty of falcons now run ls motors, and a few commodores are running i6t's these days, so I reckon do it.....

I'd only be doing the basics if I go the Caprice route, no difficult engine conversions .

[castellan]

I would like to see the ECE KW figures the so called pipes and tune comes up with.
I am not saying that they are not making more power but it's maybe more like what did it have in good tune before and after on the Dyno. hopefully same day at the same tep testing. even then looking back at the old commodores like VN on 5.0L you could put the same exhaust on your car as the 180 KW 5.0L and get it tuned and make more power on the Dyno on the day but the true 180KW holden will hose your chiped and exhaust off on the road, now why is that ? I think it's not all about max KW, holden must of done it's home work I am sure and did a lot more in depth testing to come up with what they did.
A good tuner may know this but joe blow of the street only is looking for the max KW just to run and boast about it to just other fools.

How many times do you see a test before and after where the car was never in good tune before the test was done and wow ? look at the gains bro !

[goldxrdamo]

Originally Posted by zilo

Dunno why the car makers don't just visit chat forums to get 50% more out of their engines.

HSV already did that with the VF GTS

[2242100]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Standard F6 yes, standard XR6T no. A 6.0 with a full exhaust/decent tune, an auto behind it and capable rubber will be in the 12s. If he's running Nankangs on the rear like every other bogan, forget it. Also ignore dyno numbers, they're all different, take it to the track and tell us the MPH.

Hi Adrenaline, I can agree with you about the possibility of 12's (high) for a 6.0 with a very good exhaust and tune, but I feel sure that you're still underrating XR6T's.
Do you remember your post in the "Confusion over VF SS 0-100 times" thread where you wrote. "A standard XR6T getting to 100 in mid-4 seconds is completely unbelievable" (your post 186 of 27/4/14).
Shortly after I replied to what you wrote (post 218 of of 2/5/14) I ran my untuned XR6T at WSID.
Surely that's the very best way to reply I'd say.

What did I get?

Run 1. Car launched in second gear and a 12.731 quarter mile timeslip after a 2250 rpm stall up.

Run 2. Car launched in 1st gear (normal Drive) and a 12.509 second quarter mile dragstrip timeslip. The stall up was 300 rpm lower, I doubt that there was enough grip on the night for the higher stall up in first gear to work.
On both occasions the car was shallow staged.
I also measured the runs with my GPS based Performance box and I recall that you had doubted it's accuracy.

So was it accurate?

Definitely. It's time from 60 feet to the end of the quarter was within 1 hundredth of a second of the Dragstrip time on the first run. With run 2 it recorded a very fractionally slower time (only 2-3 hundredths out and on the pessimistic side).
Below is it's printout.
Conditions on the night (of 21/5/14). 92 kg driver. 18-19 degrees. 70% plus humidity. Full sized spare and jack in boot. 15-20 litres of fuel in tank plus tools etc in boot. The equivalent of just over half a tank fuel load. New Goodyear Eagle F1 Directional standard size 18 inch tyres (approx $270. each).
Run 1 (2nd gear launch)..................................Run 2 ( launch in Drive).
0-20..........0.85 sec....2.40 metres......................0-20..............0.84......2.25 m
0-40..........1.64..........9.01.................... ...........0-40..............1.61......8.65
0-60..........2.61..........22.54................... ...........0-60..............2.37.....19.37

0-80..........3.70..........43.78................... ...........0-80..............3.43.....40.07
0-100kmh...4.85sec......72.51....................... ......0-100.............4.62.....69.68

0-120.........6.40..........120.46.................. .........0-120.............6.19......117.92
0-140.........8.19..........184.87.................. .........0-140.............8.07......185.94
0-160........10.24..........270.74.................. .........0-160............10.13.....272.14
0-180.04k...12.97.......At 400 metres...................0-179.39........12.84..At 400 Metres

The question is how fast might the car have been if there had been enough grip for the 2250 rpm stall up in 1st gear?

Well, on a previous high altitude launch (concrete surface) that technique got me a 2 tenth faster 0-20 time (0.64 sec).
Using that time and the Racelogic software to accurately calculate the potential 400 metre time (grip permitting), I get the result shown below. I've applied it to the second run which had slower rolling acceleration (I think the cars engine and transmission temperatures may have cooled a bit too much by run 2).

0-20..................0.64....1.97 metres (taken from earlier high altitude 0-100 kmh run)
0-100................4.42 sec

0-179.44 k.........12.65 seconds at 400 metres.

Sure it didn't do that time but it shows the potential (grip permitting) and with the car shallow staged that points to the possibility of a 12.3 second Dragstrip timeslip.
Whatever the case though, I think it's already achieved enough to clearly be capable of beating fgpsi's mates Commodore.
With the overboost operating (on 10.5 pounds boost with about 5% wheelslip) it got 262 RWKW on a Dyno Dynamics machine and although a 6.0 Commodore with exhaust and tune may match that, I can't see it's average power across the rev range being as high. The Dyno sheets very conservative Flywheel power calculation points to a max torque figure of around 670 Nm.

Happy Dyno?
I hardly think so considering the cars 0-60 and 0-100 times on the first run when it was in a second gear that is high enough to run beyond 110 kmh.

[JC]

At least your mates think their 8s are quick. My brother in law has a VZ SV6 and tells my kids that it is as fast as our GTE (they know it's not). He then tells them that mine is only like that because I supercharged it...to which they reply the supercharger is standard. Then he says if he supercharged his V6 it would stay up with the GTE. He is such a flog and it really sh!ts me - I mean I have to tell my kids not to listen to him because he's so full of it, but at the same time I tell them to respect their elders (except him).

I don't know what can I do - I tell him he's full of crap, and he just says "Oh, I don't know...I reckon it would keep up with it"...but won't even do a traffic light derby at the speed limit. My boys at 9 and 11 have already been exposed to the commondore mind set - in a way this is good, because they will never buy one!

[99AUXR]

Sit him in the passengers seat, take him for a drive and scare the **** out of him.... He will still say his car is faster. All that matters is that your kids know the truth .

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by JC

At least your mates think their 8s are quick. My brother in law has a VZ SV6 and tells my kids that it is as fast as our GTE (they know it's not). He then tells them that mine is only like that because I supercharged it...to which they reply the supercharger is standard. Then he says if he supercharged his V6 it would stay up with the GTE. He is such a flog and it really sh!ts me - I mean I have to tell my kids not to listen to him because he's so full of it, but at the same time I tell them to respect their elders (except him).

I don't know what can I do - I tell him he's full of crap, and he just says "Oh, I don't know...I reckon it would keep up with it"...but won't even do a traffic light derby at the speed limit. My boys at 9 and 11 have already been exposed to the commondore mind set - in a way this is good, because they will never buy one!

Put a Gorilla in front of him, and say "put your money where your mouth is" at your local drag ways test and tune night. Winner walks away a grand. No excuses your car either does what you say it does, or it leaves embarrassed. And if he doesnt take the challange, tell him he has to shut up until he does so! (At which point he will anyway)

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by 2242100

Hi Adrenaline, I can agree with you about the possibility of 12's (high) for a 6.0 with a very good exhaust and tune, but I feel sure that you're still underrating XR6T's.
Do you remember your post in the "Confusion over VF SS 0-100 times" thread where you wrote. "A standard XR6T getting to 100 in mid-4 seconds is completely unbelievable" (your post 186 of 27/4/14).
Shortly after I replied to what you wrote (post 218 of of 2/5/14) I ran my untuned XR6T at WSID.
Surely that's the very best way to reply I'd say.

What did I get?

Run 1. Car launched in second gear and a 12.731 quarter mile timeslip after a 2250 rpm stall up.

Run 2. Car launched in 1st gear (normal Drive) and a 12.509 second quarter mile dragstrip timeslip. The stall up was 300 rpm lower, I doubt that there was enough grip on the night for the higher stall up in first gear to work.
On both occasions the car was shallow staged.
I also measured the runs with my GPS based Performance box and I recall that you had doubted it's accuracy.

So was it accurate?

Definitely. It's time from 60 feet to the end of the quarter was within 1 hundredth of a second of the Dragstrip time on the first run. With run 2 it recorded a very fractionally slower time (only 2-3 hundredths out and on the pessimistic side).
Below is it's printout.
Conditions on the night (of 21/5/14). 92 kg driver. 18-19 degrees. 70% plus humidity. Full sized spare and jack in boot. 15-20 litres of fuel in tank plus tools etc in boot. The equivalent of just over half a tank fuel load. New Goodyear Eagle F1 Directional standard size 18 inch tyres (approx $270. each).
Run 1 (2nd gear launch)..................................Run 2 ( launch in Drive).
0-20..........0.85 sec....2.40 metres......................0-20..............0.84......2.25 m
0-40..........1.64..........9.01.................... ...........0-40..............1.61......8.65
0-60..........2.61..........22.54................... ...........0-60..............2.37.....19.37

0-80..........3.70..........43.78................... ...........0-80..............3.43.....40.07
0-100kmh...4.85sec......72.51....................... ......0-100.............4.62.....69.68

0-120.........6.40..........120.46.................. .........0-120.............6.19......117.92
0-140.........8.19..........184.87.................. .........0-140.............8.07......185.94
0-160........10.24..........270.74.................. .........0-160............10.13.....272.14
0-180.04k...12.97.......At 400 metres...................0-179.39........12.84..At 400 Metres

The question is how fast might the car have been if there had been enough grip for the 2250 rpm stall up in 1st gear?

Well, on a previous high altitude launch (concrete surface) that technique got me a 2 tenth faster 0-20 time (0.64 sec).
Using that time and the Racelogic software to accurately calculate the potential 400 metre time (grip permitting), I get the result shown below. I've applied it to the second run which had slower rolling acceleration (I think the cars engine and transmission temperatures may have cooled a bit too much by run 2).

0-20..................0.64....1.97 metres (taken from earlier high altitude 0-100 kmh run)
0-100................4.42 sec

0-179.44 k.........12.65 seconds at 400 metres.

Sure it didn't do that time but it shows the potential (grip permitting) and with the car shallow staged that points to the possibility of a 12.3 second Dragstrip timeslip.
Whatever the case though, I think it's already achieved enough to clearly be capable of beating fgpsi's mates Commodore.
With the overboost operating (on 10.5 pounds boost with about 5% wheelslip) it got 262 RWKW on a Dyno Dynamics machine and although a 6.0 Commodore with exhaust and tune may match that, I can't see it's average power across the rev range being as high. The Dyno sheets very conservative Flywheel power calculation points to a max torque figure of around 670 Nm.

Happy Dyno?
I hardly think so considering the cars 0-60 and 0-100 times on the first run when it was in a second gear that is high enough to run beyond 110 kmh.

I owned an FG XR6 Turbo for 4 years and have raced at WSID in a number of FG Turbos in various states of modification, I know exactly how fast they are. If your numbers are correct, then you have the fastest stock FG XR6 Turbo in history over 400m, the fastest from 0-100 and the most powerful on a dyno- congratulations, put a feather in your cap. Whether I believe you or not is irrelevant- as those numbers are certainly not what an average FG turbo will achieve so I don't think they're appropriate for this discussion, particularly seeing that fgpsi's car is manual.

And regarding the other thread you mention, appreciate that you had only been a forum member for a few months and were making by far the most impressive claims for a standard XR6 Turbo in history (like the 4.4 second 0-100 run you described). You were always going to be questioned and for what it's worth, I'm still not a believer- so don't waste your time picking a fight with me. I've been on the forums for too long and have seen far too many impressive claims for cars that turned out to be tuned or unicorns. So don't take it personally, maybe I'll see you at WSID one of these days

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by 2242100

The question is how fast might the car have been if there had been enough grip for the 2250 rpm stall up in 1st gear?

Would love to know. Is wider rear tyres the answer or AWD conversion the only way to find out?