Point-to-point cameras snap 20,000 motorists speeding on the Hume Fwy, MORE COMING!!

[M&Ms]

Originally Posted by T4ME

Don't like the rules then pack up and go elsewhere....or break the rules and pay the fine without playing your same old tune.

and you, my friend, are the type of person this government hopes to breed. Bend over? Yes Sir... More Sir... Thankyou Sir....

Is there any wonder why there's a record number of (educated) people leaving this country in droves!!!????

[blueoval]

I personally think govco could save more money and lives if:

- they spent it on driver training and education not just for new drivers but for existing ones too,
- basically making driver testing and retesting mandatory every 5 years or more frequent as age increases,
- making people resit their tests and enforcing people to learn any new written rules that weren't previously clear or known, or enforceable the last time they sat the test,
- giving people the most up to date education on road driver behavior and laws required on Australian roads,
- removing the privilege to drive to those who fail the test (written and practical) until they learn and understand the consequences fully.

or is this too sensible and less financially viable to enforce?

I think this will help make people read up on the latest new road laws, and make them MORE accountable knowing this information if caught disobeying it, rather than slapping a fine on them and waiting for the next time they slip to slap more fines on them again.

Increasing fines is a barbaric way of making people try and learn, changing speed limits is also counter productive to the driver in an effort to 'catch you out unaware and fine you' to make you learn. If the govco REALLY DID have our lives and best interests at heart, they need to do a better job and actually reach the persons motivations deep within the heart itself to change a persons behavior with better more regular education. (not including tv commercials which do little)

This is my 2c opinion.

*puts flame suit on*

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by blueoval

I personally think govco could save more money and lives if:

- they spent it on driver training and education not just for new drivers but for existing ones too,
- basically making driver testing and retesting mandatory every 5 years or more frequent as age increases,
- making people resit their tests and enforcing people to learn any new written rules that weren't previously clear or known, or enforceable the last time they sat the test,
- giving people the most up to date education on road driver behavior and laws required on Australian roads,
- removing the privilege to drive to those who fail the test (written and practical) until they learn and understand the consequences fully.

or is this too sensible and less financially viable to enforce?

I think this will help make people read up on the latest new road laws, and make them MORE accountable knowing this information if caught disobeying it, rather than slapping a fine on them and waiting for the next time they slip to slap more fines on them again.

Increasing fines is a barbaric way of making people try and learn, changing speed limits is also counter productive to the driver in an effort to 'catch you out unaware and fine you' to make you learn. If the govco REALLY DID have our lives and best interests at heart, they need to do a better job and actually reach the persons motivations deep within the heart itself to change a persons behavior with better more regular education. (not including tv commercials which do little)

This is my $2 opinion.

*puts flame suit on*

I like your post alot as it's a practical / doable / workable option. Unfortunately it is an option that would alienate 80% of voters.

I have my car, motorbike and HR truck licences. I've also done a defensive driver training course 12 months ago. I think it is entirely reasonable to have to sit new tests and have 'updates'. I mean road rules are constantly changing and sometimes attitudes need 'adjustments' as well.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by GTP-RPD

Does anyone know if buckshot can be forensically traced?

Ha!


It is obvious the limit is too low, this data should be used to increase limits to 120 or 130.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by phillyc

I like your post alot as it's a practical / doable / workable option. Unfortunately it is an option that would alienate 80% of voters.

I have my car, motorbike and HR truck licences. I've also done a defensive driver training course 12 months ago. I think it is entirely reasonable to have to sit new tests and have 'updates'. I mean road rules are constantly changing and sometimes attitudes need 'adjustments' as well.

Yes well I don't know how the logistics would work. Special dispensation for those who had done a defensive driver course could come into consideration, and update reviews on the road laws is also a good idea.

[gtfpv]

I DONT WANT TO BE A NANNY , BUT I DONT SPEED UNLESS ITS AN ERROR . .
i use cruise control on the M4 AND M5 , and people are always driving around me , people treat speed limits like they are the minimum speed you must travel . i gave up whinging about it years ago , just drive to the speed limit , and if you get pinged , slow down until you stop getting pinged , in my opinion 80% of drivers speed every day by about 10km over the limit . whether people think this is right to do or not is irrellavant , speed limit means maximum speed , every car today comes with cruise control .
once you get used to being patient , it doesnt matter what time you arrive .

[Brazen]

It would be interesting to see how many out of those 20,000 ended up in a fatal collision in that period, 15? 10? 0?

It would make interesting statistics. I remember reading about a study in Western NSW where they worked out 60% of the cars in a region travelled above the speed limit, but only 20% of the fatal crashes involved vehicles exceeding the speed limit - meaning your risk of a fatal crash dropped by two thirds if you were regularly exceeding the speed limit.

[Sprint]

are they booking people over 2km the limit(thickness of the needle)

or 5km over?

soon they will push too far then we can have mad max days :P

[XBROO]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

I DONT WANT TO BE A NANNY , BUT I DONT SPEED UNLESS ITS AN ERROR . .
i use cruise control on the M4 AND M5 , and people are always driving around me , people treat speed limits like they are the minimum speed you must travel . i gave up whinging about it years ago , just drive to the speed limit , and if you get pinged , slow down until you stop getting pinged , in my opinion 80% of drivers speed every day by about 10km over the limit . whether people think this is right to do or not is irrellavant , speed limit means maximum speed , every car today comes with cruise control .
once you get used to being patient , it doesnt matter what time you arrive .

What your saying is true to a point, but if your on a long trip with cruise control on then you're shutting off from driving which is dangerous. And when you get ping for a couple of kays over it's BS.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

I DONT WANT TO BE A NANNY , BUT I DONT SPEED UNLESS ITS AN ERROR . .
i use cruise control on the M4 AND M5 , and people are always driving around me , people treat speed limits like they are the minimum speed you must travel . i gave up whinging about it years ago , just drive to the speed limit , and if you get pinged , slow down until you stop getting pinged , in my opinion 80% of drivers speed every day by about 10km over the limit . whether people think this is right to do or not is irrellavant , speed limit means maximum speed , every car today comes with cruise control .
once you get used to being patient , it doesnt matter what time you arrive .

I wonder how long it will be before "I don't want to be a nanny but...." takes on the same public perception as "I don't want to be racist but......"

[Imolator]

It's pretty simple really if you don't speed you don't get fined. If you speed and get fined take it on the chin.

If they raised the limit to 120 on the Hume people would still go faster, as one poster already said, a lot of motorists see the limits and just ignore them.

Having said that I don't think speed kills, it's speeding and bad attitude. Sad to say but Australia has some of the poorest maintained roads in the world. Driven on by some of the worst drivers in the world. Any don't get me started about the cowboy truck drivers on the Hume, it's a death trap at times.

[EDManual]

Originally Posted by Brazen

It would be interesting to see how many out of those 20,000 ended up in a fatal collision in that period, 15? 10? 0?

It would make interesting statistics. I remember reading about a study in Western NSW where they worked out 60% of the cars in a region travelled above the speed limit, but only 20% of the fatal crashes involved vehicles exceeding the speed limit - meaning your risk of a fatal crash dropped by two thirds if you were regularly exceeding the speed limit.

Thats the sort of statistic I would love to find out about! I would believe it too! Theres nothing more dangerous than a driver sitting on the highway with cruise control on thinking they are perfect.

What I would like to see is, of all people who get caught speeding in different brackets (1-10, 10-20 and especially 20-30kmh over), how do these people go on in the next year or 2 as far as crashes are concerned.
I wouldnt be surprised if the population that does NOT get caught for speeding is involved in more crashes. Govt wont show us that will it?!!

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Imolator

If they raised the limit to 120 on the Hume people would still go faster, as one poster already said, a lot of motorists see the limits and just ignore them.

I am so sick of hearing that. It does not correlate to a single study or piece of evidence ever recorded. The fact is people will drive by and large to the conditions at hand, it is not a game of cat and mouse where the limit gets pushed further and further up, it is about setting a limit that is sensible and appropriate and people will travel at it. If the majority of traffic still travels faster then it simply means it hasnt been set high enough.

In California they will not set a speed limit on a new road, instead they will record the speeds that people travel at for a week or so and then set the speed limit at the 85th percentile of data recorded - because traffic will always find the appropriate speed to travel at. In fact setting a speed limit differently is illegal. Most countries would be shocked to see 20,000 speeding tickets on a road and not see a speed limit increase.

[Imolator]

I don't need stats to tell me what I see day in day out, it's anarchy on the roads.

A hell of a lot of drivers pretty much do what they want, lane changes without indicating, tailgating , ignoring posted limits, using mobile phones whilst driving, not keeping left, overtaking over unbroken lines, doing their hair etc the list is endless.

Going fast in Germany for example works because by and large they follow the rules, they are well trained and drive with good attitudes. The exact opposite of what goes on here.

[EDManual]

Just so you realise how nondangerous speeding is (millions caught in Vic!!), look at these stats from a few years back: How many lives saved? 0!
Of the 585,405 motorists caught by fixed speed cameras in 2010-11, 462,730 were fined for doing less than 10km/h over the limit. Of a further 579,184 nabbed by mobile speed cameras, 465,640 were doing less than 10km/h over the limit. Apart from the 1.32 million fixed and mobile camera fines issued in the past financial year, police issued a further 208,725 on-the-spot fines and just over a million motorists were slugged for not paying tolls on EastLink and other toll roads. The $249 million raised by traffic cameras in 2010-11 is $13 million more than in the previous financial year.

[steve.zissou]

Originally Posted by T4ME

Don't like the rules then pack up and go elsewhere....or break the rules and pay the fine without playing your same old tune.

really - dont fight stupid ineffective laws. dont try and make australia a better place ? politicians know whats best for every one? bureaucrats dont have any interest in building departmental empires?

just for that, next time i drive to melbourne i will reset my avg speed as i hit the first camera, then drive at 130 kph at which point 700 babies will die and bambie will get shot by a hunter - then i'll stop just befor the second camera and wait for my avg to go down .

while i am waiting sucking down quarter pounder
Cheese burgers from McDonald's in the old fashioned
Non-biodegradable Styrofoam containers
And when I'm done sucking down those grease ball burgers

I'm gonna wipe my mouth with the victorian flag
And then I'm gonna toss the Styrofoam container right out the side

[Sprint]

Originally Posted by Imolator

I don't need stats to tell me what I see day in day out, it's anarchy on the roads.

A hell of a lot of drivers pretty much do what they want, lane changes without indicating, tailgating , ignoring posted limits, using mobile phones whilst driving, not keeping left, overtaking over unbroken lines, doing their hair etc the list is endless.

Going fast in Germany for example works because by and large they follow the rules, they are well trained and drive with good attitudes. The exact opposite of what goes on here.

your avatar is going again'st any preaching of responsible driving points you are trying to make.

[Outbackjack]

This whole Vicstan constant cash grab is the reason I now completely boycott Victoria. I know lots of folks up here in the free north that are the same. No more river fishing, no more winter skiing, no more long motorcycle rides through the Alpine area..... No more discresionary $$ spent in the southern police state..... Its a shame really. Vicstan is a beautiful place. Too bad it is so badly governed.

[FG50T]

Originally Posted by T4ME

Don't like the rules then pack up and go elsewhere....or break the rules and pay the fine without playing your same old tune.

Bags are packed mate don't worry

[XR Martin]

Just keep in mind that point to point cameras in NSW are (for the moment) only detecting vehicles greater than 4.5t gross.

[mik]

Thinking back to my youth when speeding was`nt a murder offence, driving old cars like old holdens or 1600 cortina`s, old valiants that where flat out at 90 mph at valve bounce, that handled like the costa concordia and we used to sit on 70/75 mph(occasionally a bit faster) on roads that sucked 3 times worse than today and usually arrived at destination unscathed unless the car expired.
You would do the same run in any small cheap micro car today without any fuss or stress on the car it would handle 40 times better and the little car would be capable of doing the same run at an even faster clip very easily, and in our bigger cars even easier again,
it seems weird having good cars that could sit easily on 130/140/150 kph for extended periods just on cruising speed and then run them at a snail pace on the long distance highway.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by EDManual

The Baillieu Government is aiming to slash the road toll by 30 per cent, from 282 last year to fewer than 200, within a decade.

It also wants to reduce the number of serious injuries on our roads from the current 5500 a year to below 3850.

It is likely this will occur with better designed safety systems in vehicles. In 10 years time most cars on the road will be newer than FG, so passive safety will have taken a big step forward.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I am so sick of hearing that. It does not correlate to a single study or piece of evidence ever recorded. The fact is people will drive by and large to the conditions at hand, it is not a game of cat and mouse where the limit gets pushed further and further up, it is about setting a limit that is sensible and appropriate and people will travel at it. If the majority of traffic still travels faster then it simply means it hasnt been set high enough.

In California they will not set a speed limit on a new road, instead they will record the speeds that people travel at for a week or so and then set the speed limit at the 85th percentile of data recorded - because traffic will always find the appropriate speed to travel at. In fact setting a speed limit differently is illegal. Most countries would be shocked to see 20,000 speeding tickets on a road and not see a speed limit increase.

.
both my cars are easily capable of cruising at 150km /hr and if i could do this i would , but i'm not allowed to , whatever i do wont change that , and people would still cruise at 160km/hr if the limit was 150 . the whole thing is purely setupto raise revenue . best thing we could all do is stay under the limit.
and by the way I'M NOT RACIST BUT " - my next doors neighbours are Macedonion , we have been living next door to them for 12 years , the only people that enter thier property are other macedonians , i was told 12 years ago never to enter thier yard at night because they wouldnt want to shoot thier neighbour accidently . they will not have a participate in neighbourhood bbq's that we have either , 2 doors down on the other side , they are indian , when i met them 12 years ago , they asked me my background race , i said it was maltese , they told me australian woman are not good to marry .
i would say i'm not racist wouldnt you , whats your take on my neighbours . ?

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by XBROO

Great more speed cameras, cabon tax, then wage tax, then tax on everything you buy. Why don't they just tax us at 50% and be done with it.

Doesn't time = money? Open road speed limit enforcement is a tax on time. I'm not against speed limits/enforcement in suburbia, as there are plenty of ways things could get ugly if you're going too fast, and there really is no time advantage to speeding as traffic lights and traffic flow govern how fast you get to your destination anyway. 110kph limits are useless, should just be open speed limit.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by XBROO

Great more speed cameras, cabon tax, then wage tax, then tax on everything you buy. Why don't they just tax us at 50% and be done with it.

with all those taxes already in , it's much easier just to cut penalty rates , and freeze wage growth , this will make more people seek more work + more time on the roads

[steve.zissou]

Originally Posted by mik

Thinking back to my youth when speeding was`nt a murder offence, driving old cars like old holdens or 1600 cortina`s, old valiants that where flat out at 90 mph at valve bounce, that handled like the costa concordia and we used to sit on 70/75 mph(occasionally a bit faster) on roads that sucked 3 times worse than today and usually arrived at destination unscathed unless the car expired.
You would do the same run in any small cheap micro car today without any fuss or stress on the car it would handle 40 times better and the little car would be capable of doing the same run at an even faster clip very easily, and in our bigger cars even easier again,
it seems weird having good cars that could sit easily on 130/140/150 kph for extended periods just on cruising speed and then run them at a snail pace on the long distance highway.

yep - and they say the reduction in deaths are due to enforcement and cameras - i guess they forget that cars now are 1000000 times safer.

yes deaths will fall in vic over the next 10 years - because cars are getting better - not because of speed cameras.

if they really wanted to save lives they should make all drivers wear helmets - if it only saved one life - wont some one think of the children

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

.
and by the way I'M NOT RACIST BUT " - my next doors neighbours are Macedonion , we have been living next door to them for 12 years , the only people that enter thier property are other macedonians , i was told 12 years ago never to enter thier yard at night because they wouldnt want to shoot thier neighbour accidently . they will not have a participate in neighbourhood bbq's that we have either , 2 doors down on the other side , they are indian , when i met them 12 years ago , they asked me my background race , i said it was maltese , they told me australian woman are not good to marry .
i would say i'm not racist wouldnt you , whats your take on my neighbours . ?

Dont feel bad.... There is a little quote/joke here in the Alice. It goes: Whats the difference between a Alice Springs tourist and a Alice Springs racist............. About two weeks....

[Night]

Originally Posted by Mr Scheme

I remember Jeremy Clarkson talking about average speed cameras in the UK and saying just pull over and read the newspaper for a few minutes and set off again!

I also remember he bagged them because he said if you speed up to overtake someone you then sit there trying to workout what speed you have to sit on for a set distance so you don't get a ticket. Some people will panic after overtaking and then completely slow down causing everyone behind to get agro.
Personally I think point to point cameras are stupid, I have nothing against speed cameras especially if they are used correctly but this is too far. We don't need something that causes even more distraction to bad drivers

[Sprint]

One could argue that doing 130kmh on a safe hiway, you would spend less time from point A to point B, there for be on the road for a less total of time.

Thus your car would have chance to be present for a accident:P, is that logical?

[OCTANEBOSS]

Originally Posted by Outbackjack

Dont feel bad.... There is a little quote/joke here in the Alice. It goes: Whats the difference between a Alice Springs tourist and a Alice Springs racist............. About two weeks....

You cant say that lol. People might think you are telling the truth..... they wont know if they never go