European cars

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Spinner77

I knew it! The renowned rubber-band powered aircon is part of a greeny conspiracy to save the planet and help you commune with nature (whether you like it or not, of course).

Er, I was driving the Octavia in last European summer when it was regularly 35 degrees and it was just fine. I couldn't speak about 45 degrees in the Australian outback but for most (mainly city-dwelling) Australians I think it would be quite sufficient.

[Ford_The_Win]

There isn't much I could add that hasn't already been said. I wouldn't buy a European car purely because they aren't practical in terms of getting parts or user friendly servicing - neither are Japanese cars but they tend to be more reliable in the first place.

Originally Posted by Spinner77

Well it's fine to laugh but consider which is worse - emphysema or Parkinson's Disease?
http://www.trdrp.org/fundedresearch/...?grant_id=1613

Wait, what does that have to do with European cars? A research grant application from 14 years ago is supposed to prove that smoking prevents parkinsons? Whoever put that idea into your head is wrong.

[jpblue1000]

Mother has a 2000 model 2.0 Auto S40 Volvo which has traveled 160k. Its regularly serviced and is tight and rattle free today as it was new. tracks great and is a very comfortable car on a long distance journey having just borrowed it to cross from Melbourne to Adelaide via Canberra. had to turn the Air-conditioning down it was that good. During the trip I noticed a slight whirring and the ominous light clicking from a CV. Had them both out and replaced in a day with local parts for 200ish
Fathers old E class Mercedes a few years newer than the Volvo is also a great car to drive, displays no rattles etc but the Cruise control packed it in, $5600 repair. and something to do with the rack bushings as well which was quite expensive. He did claim servicing was always expensive on the merc, perhaps why he never complained about the cost of the Volvo.

JP

[strobe]

Wife has a 156 V6 Alfa. It's awesome to drive....home from the mechanics.

[ryeman]

The Europe Astra (belt driven E-W engine) would surely have to be the most pointless car, .no passion, big bills and a GM badge...!

[Rodge]

Sorry had to edit this due to lack of time.

Great way to spend money if you have lots to spare in the first place, you sure won't have afterwards.

[ryeman]

A mate's 7 series V8 was so complex that to reduce cabin noise BM chose to water cool(!) the alternator....the seal failed, coolant went up the wiring loom and fried the dash.....15,000 big ones!

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Vincenzo

No where near as cold as the Falcon but cool enough to take the edge of a tropical heat day.

Cheers Vincenzo

I beg to differ, the aircon in my XR5T is rubbish, also its very noticeable that's its on when driving.
Coming from a falcon its like chalk and cheese when it comes to aircon. Other than that my Euro Ford has been fantastic.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Vincenzo

No where near as cold as the Falcon but cool enough to take the edge of a tropical heat day.

Cheers Vincenzo

R12 systems are generally pretty good, which is 1994 and before, European R134a systems are useless, as evidenced by our WS Fiestas on the forum and anything European "designed" like the Focus.

R12 is excellent at cooling, and horrible for the environment, unfortunately that is why it was banned.

R134a is a horrible gas, it was a quick dodgy solution.

Hydrocarbon refrigerants all the way, Hychill is where its at.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Ford_The_Win

There isn't much I could add that hasn't already been said. I wouldn't buy a European car purely because they aren't practical in terms of getting parts or user friendly servicing - neither are Japanese cars but they tend to be more reliable in the first place.

For much of the last decade Skoda has hovered around the top of the reliability surveys (such as JD Power), usually playing hopskotch with Lexus and above Toyota and other Japanese, e.g.

http://autos.jdpower.com/content/pre...tion-study.htm

[In Focus]

It's pretty hard to generalise "European cars", given the range of manufacturers and models, not to mention them ranging from cheap and cheerful to high end, with a similar spread of performance variations.

However... it's fair to say the accessibility to parts is less than local builds, and anecdotal evidence suggests it's not unheard of for their replacement and/or repair to be more than Australian cars. Whether some of that extra cost is down to engineering differences (extra complexity?) or simple gouging - "Hey it's an Audi, right? What do you expect?" - is another story.

[ryeman]

European car retailers, top end in particular, assume that you run a v profitable business and that you will write off your bills as business expenses.
Once they're out of warranty, their true value is reflected in horrendous depreciation unless they are a limited run collectors item.
Offsetting that is availability of parts for decades at prices that are similar to Japanes imported ones and a part for an Astra/Opel similar to Merc/BMW.

[Rodge]

[Rodge]

Picture says a thousand words.
Very stylish and desireable, incredibly luxurious and then there's the prestige that comes with owning one and how it makes you feel contented with where you've got to in your life.

Yes they're an indulgence, they're over-priced, they depreciate very quickly, they're expensive to service, the parts prices are expensive and despite all this I don't regrett buying it.

Would I do it again ?, don't know... but if you have plenty of money and are a car enthusiast I think buying a top line European car brand new is something you should do at least once in your lifetime.

[ryeman]

The trouble with the European auto industry, in order to keep people buying their cars they are producing more and more complexity and gadgetry on to the public in order to stay ahead of the Asian manufacturers.
The resultant depreciation in relatively 'modern' cars ends up with uneconomic repair bills and your pride and joy becomes 'white goods'
DSC,HVAC ICC,ACC and on and on.
I'd love to have my old Morris Minor back as a second car for me only....I now understand the dangers but miss the purity.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by ryeman

I'd love to have my old Morris Minor back as a second car for me only....I now understand the dangers but miss the purity.

Being able to service an SU carby yourself rather than being captive to the dealer thanks to space science is a precious, but regrettably deceased, automotive experience!

[ryeman]

Clean the plugs adjust the tappets whilst standing in the engine(?803cc) bay sorry ...back to the subject...

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

The aircon in Euro cars is like an emphysema sufferer blowing through a cigarette butt at you.

Our Pug 307 is nice and cold. If you use the auto climate control, then it's a bit optimistic as to how cold it thinks it is, but override that and set it manually and you'll be pointing the vents away from you in no time at all. This is in a wagon too, so cooling the boot space down as well.

IMO, the biggest advantage a Falcon has over a Euro is that the Falcon will have the rear vents to cool the rear passengers down whereas most other cars only have front vents.

As for people that think that Euros are more expensive to service, finding the right mechanic will help there. A minor service sets me back around $300. A major would more likely be up around the $600 mark, but service intervals are 20,000kms and the 307 is a diesel, so I have to pay through the nose for the low sulphur engine oil. ($90 for the last oil change) The mechanic uses genuine Peugot parts too.

[Windsor220]

I'd own one if it was new and in the warranty period otherwise no. We get plenty of 5+ year old Euro cars come through work and they all have problems.

[DRU842]

We've been very happy with our Euro Fords. I few niggles with the XR5 but it was a very early build - the climate control seems to have improved or we have gotten used to it. We've road tripped this car to Mt Isa, Great Ocean road etc and its been a great GT car.
What I see in the Euro cars versus Asian, is solid engineering. I think this is best reflected in NACAP testing where class for class the Euros are about 3-4 years ahead of Asian equivalents ie 2004 Festiva is 4 star car.
I also think that vehicle dynamics, while subjective, is also stronger, class for class. The Europeans seem to engineer in safety & dynamics, the Asians cover it over with electronic limiters.
I'm glad our local builders seem to follow Euro trends on dynamics & safety, albeit a few years behind.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Being able to service an SU carby yourself rather than being captive to the dealer thanks to space science is a precious, but regrettably deceased, automotive experience!

I don't know about you but carby's are mechanical wizzardry to me, give me fuel injection anyday, especially simple multi point systems like on the Falcons.

Its like anything, if you know how it works you can fix it, I don't know carby, so I avoid it like the plague.

[UberKnee]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

I'd own one if it was new and in the warranty period otherwise no. We get plenty of 5+ year old Euro cars come through work and they all have problems.

Sounds like any make of car.

[Spinner77]

Hychill is where its at.

Big Damo, care to elaborate?

According to this, it would seem that you can put Hychill in a 134a system, in principle anyway. Would it work?

http://www.hychill.com.au/products/

[JG34JA]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Being able to service an SU carby yourself rather than being captive to the dealer thanks to space science is a precious, but regrettably deceased, automotive experience!

One of my favourite things about maintaining a car. I miss carbies.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Spinner77

Big Damo, care to elaborate?

According to this, it would seem that you can put Hychill in a 134a system, in principle anyway. Would it work?

http://www.hychill.com.au/products/

Yep, Hychill works with R12 and R134a systems, it cools better than 134a as well. It compresses easier so its easier on the car and its also able to operate in higher ambient temperatures than 134a.

People have a sook about it being flammable, but so is the petrol in your fuel tank. Given a Falcon will only need 300 grams of the stuff so its nothing even if some how it did catch on fire.

http://www.hychill.com.au/tech/proddeta.htm

[roberts]

the Nissan Navarro d40 is built in Spain and they use the euro, is this a European car?

[Spinner77]

Thanks, Big Damo.

So it's worth a try, you think?

Thanks also for revealing the problem with European air-conditioning. I had always wondered why old European models' aircon was so much better by comparison with the new ones.

[strobe]

So I noticed something interesting about the Alfa this morning. My mechanic (who I love..seriously) puts the little service reminder sticker on my XR8, but doesn't with the Alfa.

[mcnews]

Cost this exercise on a Euro......

We hit a wombat about 18 months ago, a big one, it damaged the front undertray and put a small split in a piece of central bodywork below the grille. I put the car up on the hoist to check any suspension components and underbody damage and all I found was lots of blood and hair hooked up on various bits under the car but no damage. The car has done about 35,000km since this hit but I finally decided to get the undertray replaced at the 135,000km service done last Friday at Etheridge Ford. Parts in stock at dealer, such as the new undertray. I also got them to replace a foglight that we cracked ages ago and fit foglight covers to both. A full service was also carried out with some suspension bits and pieces tightened up, full synthetic oil, new wiper blades, the foglights and covers fitted, the new undertray fitted, rotate and balance all wheels and adjusted handbrake. Complete total was $761.30....

Now tell me what those exercises would have cost and involved on a similar Euro car...? Just something to consider...

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by roberts

the Nissan Navarro d40 is built in Spain and they use the euro, is this a European car?

I hear they have heaps of mechanical problems too, so yes.

I love the idea of a BMW or merc. But I have never owned one.
Maybe one day I'll have a 750li or an X5 or c63amg or S600.