Thinking of a Liberty GT.... opinions/experiences? - Page 2

Reefer · 28-03-2012, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sep 97 EL XR8

Scottg I had a 01 B4 as well as the 07 GT. I did really like the B4, but the GT wins hands down. After driving the B4 for a while the dead spot between the first and second turbo starts to really drive you crazy.

Also being 01 to 03, its starting to get old, and you will have trouble finding an orginal one.

They also feel a lot smaller internally. I feel the GT has a lot more added extras, ie sunroof, polished peddles, larger wheels.

I did like the blue leather though.

Snap!

I had an 03 B4 (manual) and then an 07 GT spec b wagon (auto).

I loved the spec b.... but I loved the B4 just a little bit more. Prob just manual vs auto for me at the end of the day (even with the VOD).

Can't go wrong with a well looked after turbo liberty. Great cars.

blueoval · 28-03-2012, 10:52 PM

B4 = valley of death. if u went a b4 you will need ecutek to get the lag between each turbo out. that's the biggest gripe.

scottyg938 · 28-03-2012, 11:24 PM

Yeah, i test drove a b4 a while back but it was an auto, haven't had a chance to test a manual one just yet.
I actually dont mind the blue leather in them, when I was only looking online I thought I would hate it but in person it's not bad.
With the VOD, how much of it is removed by a decent tune?

I haven't had a chance to check out any GT's yet either, can anyone tell me what is behind the cover in the middle of the dash up top? im guessing thats where the satnav screen is? do all the GT's have satnav?

calais · 28-03-2012, 11:27 PM

I am dead keen on the charcoal gt spec b.

I am inspecting it this friday afternoon, and pending that inspection will be making a serious offer.

Sadly for me I cant make it happen any faster with my line of work. Job first, cars second :(

Just wondering too, I don't have any plans to mod the car in any way besides an aux input for the stereo, are these cars considered a theft risk??

After reading about these carjacking and home invasion spree's in Sydney it's on my mind a little.

calais · 28-03-2012, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyg938

Yeah, i test drove a b4 a while back but it was an auto, haven't had a chance to test a manual one just yet.
I actually dont mind the blue leather in them, when I was only looking online I thought I would hate it but in person it's not bad.
With the VOD, how much of it is removed by a decent tune?

I haven't had a chance to check out any GT's yet either, can anyone tell me what is behind the cover in the middle of the dash up top? im guessing thats where the satnav screen is? do all the GT's have satnav?

If the gt doesnt have sat nav, there is a covered cubby hole in it's place.

Sat-Nav was a stupidly expensive option, 3.5k if i remember correctly, so most cars went without.

scottyg938 · 28-03-2012, 11:35 PM

Cheers, I've only had a chance to look on carsales so far and all of them have the cover closed.

As for theft risk a can only assume they're lower risk than an xr8 seeing as my insurance quotes so far have been about $1800 a year lower for full comp

blueoval · 29-03-2012, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyg938

Yeah, i test drove a b4 a while back but it was an auto, haven't had a chance to test a manual one just yet.
I actually dont mind the blue leather in them, when I was only looking online I thought I would hate it but in person it's not bad.
With the VOD, how much of it is removed by a decent tune?

I haven't had a chance to check out any GT's yet either, can anyone tell me what is behind the cover in the middle of the dash up top? im guessing thats where the satnav screen is? do all the GT's have satnav?

From what I have read, about 90% of is removed. There will always be some VOD but no where near as much. Plus more grunt throughout the rest of the rev range.

calais · 29-03-2012, 12:08 PM

The most commonly recommended remedy to completely remove the VOD is a single turbo conversion. Especially with later model twin-scroll turbos which take a fraction of the time to spool and start making bucketloads of grunt.

You do have to be very careful though of who you use to tune your turbo Liberty though. I have heard numerous horror stories of people who have been screwed over by substandard tuning practices which the Liberty will pick up instantly with a range of check-engine-light (CEL) codes.

When I finally settle on one for myself, it'll be staying stock standard for this very reason.

blueoval · 29-03-2012, 12:16 PM

That's pretty fair Calais. Here S&J Automotive are Subaru tuning specialists and if I were to get something done on a turbo Subaru, I would be heading there before any other place. I found out about these guys from OZliberty forums years ago. Of course there are other practices who rival these guys in other states, but generally you do need to research all aspects of modifications before going ahead and doing it.

Keeping it stock will ultimately ensure you never have an issue with CEL. lol

Chopped · 29-03-2012, 12:21 PM

I'm looking at a GT Bspec as well for the missus. Most likely a wagon.
I want a manual and she wants an auto :( .
Considering the car will be hers, it will most likely be an auto.
Has anyone owned an auto version ? (any good?)

(Also considering a V8 Sportwagon (SSV or Calais) but wary of build quality / problems...)

blueoval · 29-03-2012, 12:26 PM

In NA guise & 2L the auto is a bit of a slug if you are pushing it. In a 2.5L its better as there is more bottom end torque, but it's still no mind blowing.

As for turbo, I have driven a 2L sedan and it wasn't too bad. Sure there was some lag, but taking off normally then putting the boot in, it gets up well.

calais · 15-04-2012, 10:07 PM

Well, the search for a suitable vehicle has so far been fruitless.

A curve-ball has however been thrown. In the form of a 2007 Mazda 6 MPS.

http://www.carsales.com.au/private/d...cr=14&__N=1216 1246 1247 1252 1282 4294965340 4294961345 898 4294739639&silo=Stock&Range=Price:Min,Max~0.5

I have done some preliminary research and discovered that they are;
-variable full time AWD
-transverse 2.3 DISI Turbo
-Just as sensitive to servicing as the Subaru Liberty GT

And from what I have read on MPS Forums Aus, every bit as quick as the Liberty whilst being somewhat more affordable on the used market.

I have read about turbo oil seals failing on the single scroll turbos, and of the occassional climate control failure, bt just how seriously are these claims to be taken?

Definately food for thought...... Has anyone got anything to share about a ^ MPS?

Does anyone have anything to share on such a car?

sneaky · 16-04-2012, 06:10 AM

i was looking to buy a family members 2005 mps6 a few years ago, the only reason it didn't happen was because they delayed selling it by a few months and i bought a house instead (although for the asking price i probably could have managed both).

i did a heap of reading on a mazda/mps forum about them.

some people had clutch issues, which were resolved in later models. the earlier ones (2005) were more of a 'button' clutch which some people didn't like.

i had also read about people blowing diff/driveshafts, but that may have been a vocal 1 or 2 people, and i'd guess driving habits had a lot to do with it.

and as you might know servicing and parts can be expensive, but may be comparable to a subaru anyway.

even now when i see a mps6 on the road they are still a nice looking car which wouldn't draw any unwanted attention from the police or hoon's looking for a race. is a shame they didn't continue to build them

AU Mont · 16-04-2012, 10:19 AM

a couple other ideas

Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart..... 177kw, kerb weight 1555kg
http://www.carsales.com.au/private/d...-2010-12182734

SAAB 9-3 440 Aero...... 188kw, kerb weight 1626kg
http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/de...-2008-11490066

and something different, HSV VXR AH..... 177kw, kerb weight 1393kg
http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/de...-2008-12383975

scottyg938 · 16-04-2012, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AU Mont

a couple other ideas

Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart..... 177kw, kerb weight 1555kg
http://www.carsales.com.au/private/d...-2010-12182734

SAAB 9-3 440 Aero...... 188kw, kerb weight 1626kg
http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/de...-2008-11490066

and something different, HSV VXR AH..... 177kw, kerb weight 1393kg
http://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/de...-2008-12383975

To me, OP might have a different opinions..

Lancer - interior seems a but too pov pack and basic

Saab - Exterior isn't the best looking

VXR - FWD kills it, if it had AWD it would be worth a look

**cs123** · 16-04-2012, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calais

Definately food for thought...... Has anyone got anything to share about a ^ MPS?

Does anyone have anything to share on such a car?

I bought one new in Jan 2008. Owned it for 3 years. It was the optioned up model with leather and sunroof. Very nice car. I enjoyed owning it. For it's time the interior features were a little behind the times for things like ipod connectivity. It had it, but a poor user interface. Climate A/C worked well. Dash had a nice layout IMO. Interior was comfortable and the leather stood up well to use.

Power delivery was a bit annoying. Turbo lag, then on with a rush and all over by 5500RPM. Strong midrange power. They use torque limiting in the lower gear to protect the drive train.

As a car to drive, it was snappy and a terrific handler. Absolutely brilliant in the wet. A little nervous on choppy roads but all Mazdas seem to be like that to me.

The clutch was a bit annoying, but something you get use to. Not sure if it's because of the engine torque characteristics but heavy stop start traffic is a pain. It's not a car you can inch along by letting the clutch out a bit. You need the accelerator and clutch to move it.

The car shares the engine with the 3PMS and CX7. I think the CX7 uses the same rear diff. Mechanically you should be good for parts. It uses some custom body parts like front, rear bumpers and bonnet etc. Because it was a limited run those parts may get pricy in the future.

I have heard of a (very) few issues mechanically. White smoke from the turbo seal. Anything else would be rare.

I'd definitely consider one, mostly because they can be had cheaper than the Subie. I bought mine for $55K in 2008, sold it for $22K in 2011 :(

sneaky · 16-04-2012, 12:47 PM

^^^ as above, the car i was going to buy was the $55k luxury option that i was looking to buy for $20k (off family) after 3-4 years.

just had a look at carsales, prices look good for a 2007 model with under 50k's they are around $25k asking.

and come to think of it, the ones that i had heard of breakages were all modified cars

IceValk85 · 16-04-2012, 01:43 PM

heya all!

i own a 2006 MPS 6 and all i have to say is very thoroughly have the car inspected before you buy.

they are a PIG to buy driveline parts for, and they are whoppingly expensive.

list of faults with my MPS 6 so far at 122000KM (owned from 110k so only 12,000KM ok?)

1: suspension: leaking oil (fair enough for the KMs travelled) new pedders custom sports ryder/comfort ryder combo. improves handling dramatically, 1500$
2: brakes: rooted, also fair enough for KMs travelled, however, they were rubbish standard. replaced with DBA 4000 slotted all round an REMSA pads. excellent stopping power.
3: engine mounts: utter ***** from factory. replace rear engine mount with after market option from CPE. also installed side engine mounts at same time to remove some driveline lash. 600$ roughly imported from USA. plus installation.
4: clutch: dont even get me started here. this is the next item due for me. it clunks, it bangs, it grinds, it thumps, and is a pig to use. aftermarket replacement will transform the car, but an EXEDY kit is around 1600$ then 600ish to install. total 2100 MIN. (4500$ quoted from mazda for the rubbish stock setup lol)
5: rear diff braces. also due on my car. driveline will SLAM up and down on some 2nd-3rd shifts. 1st-2nd also clunks, but i think thats more clutch related. also have an interesting rattle when the clutch is OUT but not IN. i suspect clutch bearings here. combined this is what makes me really angry with the car lately. the rear diff braces will cost about 650$ from the states, then more money to install.
6: gearbox oil is MASSIVELY important in these cars. the standard oil from mazda is rubbish, and feels like dragging a screwdriver through a bucket of bolts. swapped for penrite SYN and improved. just put in REDLINE MT90. excellent feel now. 100$ for 3.9 litres tho :P

most of the driveline related issues are due to mazda shipping the car from the factory with rubber bushes that were very soft. while this reduced NVH from the car in the cabin, it leaves the car jerky and after a 120000km they really go downhill. replacing all the soft parts leaves you with an excellent car, but it will leave you broke too. trust me i know. if i could sell the car i would do it in a heartbeat, but i owe too much on finance.

fuel economy varies wildly too, some reporting 10-11 l/100 city. my car NEVER drops below 14.8l/100 city and requires 98RON fuel. i suspect this is partly due to a failing dual mass flywheel which gets replaced when you replace the clutch. the car is by no means economical lol.

yet as much as i hate my car, every time i look at the shape, i fall back in love with it again. then i start it up, and the clutch starts banging away and the gearbox sounds like a bag of marbles in a blender with the clutch out. then i hate it again lol!

Ice

sneaky · 16-04-2012, 02:15 PM

^^^ glad i bought an SS instead of an MPS then..

**cs123** · 16-04-2012, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceValk85

heya all!

i own a 2006 MPS 6 and all i have to say is very thoroughly have the car inspected before you buy.

just reading your post gives me the impression that the car has had a very hard life and looking at comments about the brakes I would suggest you give it a hard time too.

IceValk85 · 16-04-2012, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cs123

just reading your post gives me the impression that the car has had a very hard life and looking at comments about the brakes I would suggest you give it a hard time too.

the car was previously a rep car used to drive between cloncurry and mt isa every day, every week. this clocked up the kms very quickly. i bought the car from a dealer, and the car has a full mazda service history. every was done at 7500-10000km, so the previous owner did look after the car.

i called the primary mazda service agent in mt isa to see if the car had any warranty work done to it over its life, and all it had was an electric seat motor swap. i called the previous owner and she loved the car but the lease was up and had to get rid of it. she had no previous issues.

all of the issues on my car seem to have cropped up just after i bought it lol. i certainly dont drive it like a grandma, but i dont flog it to death either. its a GT car, not a street drag racer.

for example when i mention the slam from 2nd to 3rd, im talking at 2500rpm...
not even on boost.

its strange, if it DO drive the car hard it works well. 5500rpm gear changes and all. BUT if i drive normally, shifting around 2500rpm and driving like a grandma, it gives all sorts of grief, clanking and banging and generally being unpleasant lol.

the reason i went with a vastly better set of stoppers for the car was because it was cheaper than the OEM **** mazda tries to peddle. townsville drivers are notorious morons as well, so being able to avoid the several blind lane changing camry drivers every week is a bonus lol.

Ice

calais · 16-04-2012, 03:26 PM

^ the story above from ice makes me nervous!

I dont need the grief!!

IceValk85 · 16-04-2012, 03:37 PM

they are a great car when running well, any car can have issues.

look at the number of fords from BA to FG that have shat their radiator or bypass and killed the gearbox. look at how many falcons need rear diff bushes done (kinda like my MPS). early WRXs that kill 2nd gear, or blow their boxers off lol.

one of the better sides to the coin i suppose is that they suffer from a few well documented (read OZMPSCLUB forums) that are fixable. only they cost a bit of money in doing so lol

mine just seems to have a few of the issues all at once ;p

ice

**cs123** · 16-04-2012, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calais

^ the story above from ice makes me nervous!

I dont need the grief!!

I've never heard of these issues. They are a very well put together car. My car was nice and tight, handled very well. The standard brakes are excellent. No clunks, squeeks or issues with the engine mounts.

It is Japanese built and I would rate it one of the best put together cars I have driven when I owned it. It is easily the equal of the Liberty.

In Ice's case I am not sure what the original owner did but for the car to display those issues at 110K then something had happened to it.

AU Mont · 16-04-2012, 05:10 PM

fit and finish between mazda & subaru is a big difference imo

mazda isnt in the same league.

IceValk85 · 16-04-2012, 05:51 PM

well i just got back from popping down to mazda to get some service consumables for the missus Mazda 2.

while i was there i borrowed a mechanic for a few minutes and he was quite confident to diagnose a heavily worn throwout bearing, and a clutch that is borderline worn as well. it doesn't slip, but it doesn't engage and disengage smoothly.

the rattles at idle with the clutch out and the clunky shifts are likely to be from this.

confirmed my suspicions i need a new clutch and flywheel basically lol.

he also recommended that i dont use OEM replacements and head straight to an Exedy distributor lol. the conversion kits come with new bearings.

Ice

calais · 16-04-2012, 09:40 PM

That rattle that you are experiencing with the clutch out will be the dual-mass flywheel. It is also the most likely culprit with the clunky shift action too. Try to think of it the same way a clutch 'dog' would be engaging with some freeplay creating the clunk.

My Skoda Octavia suffered with the same problem and was repaired under warranty.

As far as I am concerned, a dual-mass flywheel is a waste of time and money considering that 9 times out of ten the aftermarket will replace them with a regular single-mass unit which doesn't have the serviceability issues.

IceValk85 · 16-04-2012, 09:54 PM

agree with calais massively

very likely the dual mass flywheel is approaching the end of its service life and causing me grief.

cant wait to get a single mass conversion kit in... the only thing now is im not sure if i want a standard weight or a lightweight flywheel... arrg so many choices!

ice

**cs123** · 16-04-2012, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AU Mont

fit and finish between mazda & subaru is a big difference imo

mazda isnt in the same league.

I currently own 2 Subarus. The fit and finish on my MPS was better.

EL2794 · 16-04-2012, 10:23 PM

I havn't really read through everything everyone has posted, but we have a 4Gen MY07 update Liberty 2.5i in the family and reliability, quality and value have all been great. IIRC the MY09 came with std sat nav and ipod connectivity compared with previous MY's where it was a option. If you have any specific questions about anything feel free to PM me. Ours has just passed 60,000kms and the dealer extended the warranty to 5years and 170,000kms. Services have been well priced too.