Right of way - Page 2

SteveJH · 15-09-2011, 12:47 AM

@No.1,

Neither car is *on* the road, as such the person turning to the right must give way to the person turning left.

Its no different to any 4 way intersection.

Trevor 57 · 15-09-2011, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

I thought it was simply that if it was two lanes then you both can go, you should not cross directly into the left if you are green car.

But you have right of way if its a single lane as you are closer to the corner.

Technically you both should be fine to go if its two lanes though. We have the same issue in my town and every nuffty green car thinks they can just bound straight over into the left lane...um no (I think).

The law regarding 'when turning right you must go into the right lane of a dual laned road' is gone, that law disappeared in 1999 when the 'National' Road Rules came out.

The left turn to left lane rule never existed, well in Victoria at least.

Trevor 57 · 15-09-2011, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveJH

@No.1,

Neither car is *on* the road, as such the person turning to the right must give way to the person turning left.

Its no different to any 4 way intersection.

Sorry your wrong, if the green car is doing a U turn they are required by law to give way to ALL traffic

Trevor 57 · 15-09-2011, 08:12 AM

I seriously can't believe some of the answers here, for christ sake go and read your road rules again.

The GREEN Car, Car 2, MUST give way to the Blue car, Car 1, as the green car is doing a U turn, all other cars, signs and road markings are irrelevant.

I have quoted the Victorian version below, but it is the same law across Asutralia.

Quote:

38 Giving way when making a U-turn
A driver making a U-turn must give way to all vehicles and pedestrians

That is is, there is no more (other than mention of penalities)

Victorian Road Rules - U Turn - page 38

Jim Goose · 15-09-2011, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Trev

Sorry your wrong, if the green car is doing a U turn they are required by law to give way to ALL traffic

Not quite right....

In QLD :

Quote:

Giving way when driving through a break in a dividing
strip
(1) If a driver drives through a break in a dividing strip that has no
stop sign, stop line, give way sign or give way line, the driver
must give way to—
(a) any tram on the dividing strip; and
(b) any vehicle travelling on the part of the road the driver is
entering (except a vehicle to which a stop sign, stop line,
give way sign, or give way line, applies).

This is why I asked did car 1 have a stop sign or giveway sign.
Usually where there is a break in a median strip (where car2 is) it is rarely signed.

So a car making a U-turn only has to give way to through traffic. Cars stopped at stop sign or giveway sign at where Car1 is MUST stop/ giveway to everyone.

EDManual · 15-09-2011, 10:09 AM

I would not call that example a U turn, It is turning right as there is sufficient space to put your vehicle. That space is like another road.

prydey · 15-09-2011, 10:34 AM

the drawing looks wrong to me. normally, car 2 and 3 would be swapped around. car 1 and 4 seem to be exiting a one way street. is this the case, or is the picture just poorly drawn?

as for all the confusion, its clearly obvious that although the govt tried to implement a 'national' standard, they clearly didn't. with forum members all contributing from different states, it is possible for more than one correct answer.

**Polyal** · 15-09-2011, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Trev

The law regarding 'when turning right you must go into the right lane of a dual laned road' is gone, that law disappeared in 1999 when the 'National' Road Rules came out.

The left turn to left lane rule never existed, well in Victoria at least.

Im not really phased what the law calls it, my result was still the correct and logical one.

SteveJH · 15-09-2011, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Trev

Sorry your wrong, if the green car is doing a U turn they are required by law to give way to ALL traffic

What is the difference? In this case whichever law you follow they have to give way anyway.

Edit: And while talking about road rules, what is with the roads in the melbourne CBD? Was down there last weekend and went the long way around some blocks since I wasnt exactly feeling confident about doing one of those weird right turns.......

**Professor Farnsworth** · 15-09-2011, 01:20 PM

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/...es/GiveWay.htm

on a side note, those who pull into a "free lane" in a 2 or three lane road with cars travelling in the other lanes are asking for an insurance claim.

**Professor Farnsworth** · 15-09-2011, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveJH

What is the difference? In this case whichever law you follow they have to give way anyway.

Edit: And while talking about road rules, what is with the roads in the melbourne CBD? Was down there last weekend and went the long way around some blocks since I wasnt exactly feeling confident about doing one of those weird right turns.......

what's so hard about a hook turn? If you need to turn right, travel deep into the intersection on the left side, stop on a 90deg angle to the cars on your left with your right indicator on. When the lights 90deg to your right go green, take off to your right in front of other vehicles. It frees congestion from the middle of busy CBD streets and works very well.

SteveJH · 15-09-2011, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor Farnsworth

what's so hard about a hook turn? If you need to turn right, travel deep into the intersection on the left side, stop on a 90deg angle to the cars on your left with your right indicator on. When the lights 90deg to your right go green, take off to your right in front of other vehicles. It frees congestion from the middle of busy CBD streets and works very well.

Its weird (i'm from NSW remember), and how does it free up congestion any more then a normal right turn?

**Professor Farnsworth** · 15-09-2011, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveJH

Its weird (i'm from NSW remember), and how does it free up congestion any more then a normal right turn?

because unlike a normal right turn, at least one more car can sit in the queue to successfully make the turn (on the left) as the cars go deep into the intersection to wait for the green, whereas only about two cars can sit waiting to turn right as there is generally no turn cycle at those intersections, so cars have to wait to turn against greens. It theoretically allows for more cars to pass through the intersections and probably avoids accidents and backups due to people sitting stranded in the middle due to panic.

fmc351 · 15-09-2011, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveJH

Its weird (i'm from NSW remember), and how does it free up congestion any more then a normal right turn?

Theres these bloody large solid things called trams. You would either block a lane, or have to stop on the tram line. Hook turns are easy.

Essentially, you become part of the traffic waiting at the red light to your left, then when that light turns green, you go just like the rest of the traffic heading the way you want to go.

Parkway · 15-09-2011, 02:04 PM

Seems like quite a cocktail of opinions. Who knows/should know the most about these things? Cops? If so, I say go to them. Peace of mind would be bliss if this situation were to arise again.

You have a 50% chance of being in the wrong in this situation if the correct information isn't acquired.

Or if you're stupid enough like me, make sure you have the faster car next time and be in like Flynn. But no, don't do that.

**Professor Farnsworth** · 15-09-2011, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parkway

Seems like quite a cocktail of opinions. Who knows/should know the most about these things? Cops? If so, I say go to them. Peace of mind would be bliss if this situation were to arise again.

You have a 50% chance of being in the wrong in this situation if the correct information isn't acquired.

Or if you're stupid enough like me, make sure you have the faster car next time and be in like Flynn. But no, don't do that.

i posted the victorian rules in post #40

Parkway · 15-09-2011, 02:11 PM

Oh, missed that. Sorry

Trevor 57 · 15-09-2011, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Not quite right....

In QLD :

This is why I asked did car 1 have a stop sign or giveway sign.
Usually where there is a break in a median strip (where car2 is) it is rarely signed.

So a car making a U-turn only has to give way to through traffic. Cars stopped at stop sign or giveway sign at where Car1 is MUST stop/ giveway to everyone.

You are quoting the wrong law, quote the law regarding U turn

Trevor 57 · 15-09-2011, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDManual

I would not call that example a U turn, It is turning right as there is sufficient space to put your vehicle. That space is like another road.

If they are not doing a U turn, what are they doing there, there is no side road to come out of

Trevor 57 · 15-09-2011, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveJH

Its weird (i'm from NSW remember), and how does it free up congestion any more then a normal right turn?

It was wholly and soley designed to keep the flow of trams going, and it still achieves that result.

You would have noticed that trams run where-ever you are required to do a hook turn.

fmc351 · 15-09-2011, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Trev

You are quoting the wrong law, quote the law regarding U turn

Why is that the only law applicable? Regardless of whether he is doing a U turn or not, the island may in fact change the way it is looked at. If its a narrow island for example 1 metre wide, then it would still be a u-turn, but if its a large highway type say 5 or 10 metres wide, at the point where the driver is moving from, he is no longer doing a U turn, but is simply turning from the island.

But, whether he was doing a u-turn or not, the end result is the same, he must give way to the OP in both situations.

**Professor Farnsworth** · 15-09-2011, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Trev

It was wholly and soley designed to keep the flow of trams going, and it still achieves that result.

You would have noticed that trams run where-ever you are required to do a hook turn.

it's also to improve forward flowing traffic through the intersection unobstructed by right turners

**GasoLane** · 15-09-2011, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Trev

If they are not doing a U turn, what are they doing there, there is no side road to come out of

Um, stopped in the middle of the median. IE: Dandenong Rd city end (of course they could do what I did a very long time ago at 3:00am...turn too soon and drive down the Tram lines by mistake!!)

fmc351 · 15-09-2011, 05:02 PM

Theres been a rip in the space time continuum, or shennanigans are afoot.

**Professor Farnsworth** · 15-09-2011, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

Would I be right in assuming you quoted the wrong post, and that is in response to hook turns? I said something about blocking traffic in the right lane, and trams in my post further up.

no idea what you're talking about!

Trevor 57 · 15-09-2011, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

Why is that the only law applicable? Regardless of whether he is doing a U turn or not, the island may in fact change the way it is looked at. If its a narrow island for example 1 metre wide, then it would still be a u-turn, but if its a large highway type say 5 or 10 metres wide, at the point where the driver is moving from, he is no longer doing a U turn, but is simply turning from the island.

But, whether he was doing a u-turn or not, the end result is the same, he must give way to the OP in both situations.

It is still a U turn regardless of the width of meridan strip, if you come from one direction then do a U turn to go the other direction, then it is a U turn regardless of what you say, I can guarantee that is the how the Police and Courts will look at it, Police and Courts work in black and white old mate

Trevor 57 · 15-09-2011, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor Farnsworth

it's also to improve forward flowing traffic through the intersection unobstructed by right turners

It was designed wholly and soley with trams in mind, there are other benefits, but it was designed around the trams.

Franco Cozzo · 15-09-2011, 05:50 PM

Yes the map is quite poorly drawn:

http://g.co/maps/7m33p

There you go, thats the intersection, that probably makes more sense. See the slip lane, thats where I was with the "turn left at any time with care sign", the guy doing the U turn was in the middle there between the two lanes. We both came out at the same time.

Trevor 57 · 15-09-2011, 06:03 PM

That kinda makes a difference, because it could be argued that the car that did the U turn was on the road (on your right) before you started to turn out from behind the give-way sign.

It would be interesting to see what happened if an accident occured, but I think the U turner would still be in strife. A U turner has to give way to ALL traffic

fmc351 · 15-09-2011, 06:08 PM

Going by the image, that would be a u-turn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Trev

It is still a U turn regardless of the width of meridan strip, if you come from one direction then do a U turn to go the other direction, then it is a U turn regardless of what you say, I can guarantee that is the how the Police and Courts will look at it, Police and Courts work in black and white old mate

But they see both black and white, youre not seeing the black and white, youre just seeing one colour.

If the median was wide enough for two cars to stop one behind the other, without impeding traffic, then the u-turn becomes less relevant. Its simply a right turn into the median, then another right turn from the median. Two right turns will point you in the same direction as a u-turn will, but if you do it going around the block, its still not a u-turn despite that being the intention. The median if large enough is effectively a small block.