GT Price inflation conspiracy theory >>>>>

[dave289]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Last i heard there were 10 XW?Y GT/HO's for sale around the place, 12 months ago you heard of 1 every 3 months.
If these cars are owned by enthusiasts, why the sudden interest in getting rid of them?
Why has the price increase come to a sudden halt, there was an article in AMC which highlighted the fact that the HO's are no longer the flavour of the month at auctions.

Why dont these cashed up people buy now then?

They wont because they too know the price will fall out of them.

the last you heard and the reality is 2 different things,but still possibly true so i wont argue.if i was some old reg who paid $5,000 for one new or a little more down the track and they were worth what they are now you would entertain the idea of selling it and then may go ahead.the case may be now that they have reached this point in price some people think time to sell.i agree these prices are ridulous but the price that people are willing to pay.the only way these cars would plummet in value is if they were flooded onto the market.there is not enough to create a flood.many had these cars before the price went through the roof and even if they went down they would still keep there pride and joy,which will always prevent a flood of these cars.
the most unfortunate aspect of the prices going through the roof mean that most owners are now to scared to drive them and there insurance would be to expensive.(another reason old reg might decide to sell).the other downside is now we hardly ever see a real one the road.

when and if the prices fall out(as you put it) of them you can gladly say i told you so.but i wont be holding my breath waiting for the day i can but one for a reasonable price cause that just wont be happening.in the meantime my 67 xr v8 fairmont will do just fine.i get so much enjoyment from driving this car i would never sell it.many would feel this way about their gt.

i know an old reg that has owned a phase 3 since new.he is now in his 80's and paid $5,500 brand new.if you offered him 2 mil tommorow he would not even think of taking it because he does not give a shi* about what the car is worth.his car is worth far more to him that a bunch of green paper.this is what many fail to see.the love for such a car will always prevent a flood of these cars onto the market, keeping prices high.very high.just so you know these cars have increased in value since the day they left the factory in 1971.
this is not a housing market we are talking about.a very small niche market that is not affected as much by interest rates and or inflation.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by dave289

i know an old reg that has owned a phase 3 since new.he is now in his 80's and paid $5,500 brand new.if you offered him 2 mil tommorow he would not even think of taking it because he does not give a shi* about what the car is worth.his car is worth far more to him that a bunch of green paper.this is what many fail to see.the love for such a car will always prevent a flood of these cars onto the market, keeping prices high.very high.just so you know these cars have increased in value since the day they left the factory in 1971.
this is not a housing market we are talking about.a very small niche market that is not affected as such by interest rates and or inflation.

Well apart from the first few years when they were down to about $3000 and again in 1987-89 when they dropped for a while.

For the guy who bought one new for $5,500 and will never sell it is worth $5,500.

If you dont sell somthing you never get money for it so it has no monetry value.
Sure it has very strong emotional value but until a thing is actually sold all it has is potential value.

You are obviously a true believer and very passionate about this but all the wishing in the world cannot change history or reality.

[dave289]

Originally Posted by flappist

Well apart from the first few years when they were down to about $3000 and again in 1987-89 when they dropped for a while.

For the guy who bought one new for $5,500 and will never sell it is worth $5,500.

If you dont sell somthing you never get money for it so it has no monetry value.
Sure it has very strong emotional value but until a thing is actually sold all it has is potential value.

You are obviously a true believer and very passionate about this but all the wishing in the world cannot change history or reality.

so does that mean that my oldies house that cost $75,000 in 1975 is worth only $75,000 today.even though they have not sold it.and because it has not been sold according to you it has no monetary value.but i could buy another house against this one but with no monetary value.amazing theory.

i would rather that gt's were worth only $50,000.then i might have a chance to own one.but because of the fact there are so few and many wish to keep them they will always be very expensive.

"you can not change history or reality"exactly.you cannot change the history of this car or the reality that they will always be out of reach to the average buyer.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by dave289

so does that mean that my oldies house that cost $75,000 in 1975 is worth only $75,000 today.even though they have not sold it.and because it has not been sold according to you it has no monetary value.but i could buy another house against this one but with no monetary value.amazing theory.

i would rather that gt's were worth only $50,000.then i might have a chance to own one.but because of the fact there are so few and many wish to keep them they will always be very expensive.

"you can not change history or reality"exactly.you cannot change the history of this car or the reality that they will always be out of reach to the average buyer.

You really don't get it do you?

Yes, your oldies house is only worth 75k, what they paid for it, UNLESS they sell or mortgage it and then it is worth whatever it is sold or mortgaged for.

[dave289]

Originally Posted by flappist

You really don't get it do you?

Yes, your oldies house is only worth 75k, what they paid for it, UNLESS they sell or mortgage it and then it is worth whatever it is sold or mortgaged for.

its now worth over 2 mil.cause thats what it WILL sell for but you just dont get it.so when i go to the realestate agent and ask him whats its WORTH,do you think he is going to say $75,000 or the 2 mil THAT IT IS WILL SELL FOR.
that is what you dont get.amazing.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by dave289

its now worth over 2 mil.cause thats what it WILL sell for but you just dont get it.so when i go to the realestate agent and ask him whats its WORTH,do you think he is going to say $75,000 or the 2 mil THAT IT IS WILL SELL FOR.
that is what you dont get.amazing.

So what you are saying is that when they sell it they will get $2,000,000.

Ok how much will they get if they do not ever sell it?

[XWGT]

My two cents worth

They are vastly over valued, due to cashed up baby boomers reliving their pasts. Dont say their not, as I sold both of my XW and XY to such people.

There may be a price corrections due to economic circumstances in the future, however it will be minimal. Quite simply there are too many people who have invested far too much money into GT's to allow the price to drop dramatically. So much money has now been invested that the price points did not curve, they actually shifted. Its a whole new economy for muscle cars.

Added to that, there are a few games being played in the market including both parties quoting sale prices above what was really negotiated, however there have also been some spectacular amounts paid at public auction. One group is the long term GT insiders, one is the relatively new to the market cashed up baby boomer. Guess which group paid which price?

The only really bright side is that many other genuine super cars and performance cars have not suffered the same fate so are now pretty affordable, so that keeps a smile on my dial. Just hope it stays that way.............

[Piotr]

Originally Posted by flappist

You really don't get it do you?

Yes, your oldies house is only worth 75k, what they paid for it, UNLESS they sell or mortgage it and then it is worth whatever it is sold or mortgaged for.

No, its worth is market value (which is an estimate). But just because it is worth $2million doesn't mean they have access to that $2Million.

You can have a net worth of billions of dollars but that doesn't mean you have billions in cash. Cash and net worth are vastly different things.

[dave289]

Originally Posted by flappist

So what you are saying is that when they sell it they will get $2,000,000.

Ok how much will they get if they do not ever sell it?

no i am not saying they will get 2 mil ,im saying it is worth 2 mil.we were talking about what it is WORTH not what they will get for it.

and if they dont sell it they will get nothing, but it is still WORTH 2 mil.but i just dont get it.

i dont no the actual meaning of WORTH in the dictionary and dont have one .anybody got a dictionary

you are correct to a point flappist but as you can see the argument can go both ways.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by XWGT

My two cents worth

They are vastly over valued, due to cashed up baby boomers reliving their pasts. Dont say their not, as I sold both of my XW and XY to such people.

There may be a price corrections due to economic circumstances in the future, however it will be minimal. Quite simply there are too many people who have invested far too much money into GT's to allow the price to drop dramatically. So much money has now been invested that the price points did not curve, they actually shifted. Its a whole new economy for muscle cars.

Added to that, there are a few games being played in the market including both parties quoting sale prices above what was really negotiated, however there have also been some spectacular amounts paid at public auction. One group is the long term GT insiders, one is the relatively new to the market cashed up baby boomer. Guess which group paid which price?

The only really bright side is that many other genuine super cars and performance cars have not suffered the same fate so are now pretty affordable, so that keeps a smile on my dial. Just hope it stays that way.............

Well said, probably the most balanced opinion so far..

[AusM]

Some more fuel for this great debate no doubt!

Two Melbourne businessmen have paid a record $1 million for a pair of rare Ford Falcon GT sedans. Friends and business associates Leo Khouri and Steve Dellidis this week took delivery of a 1967 XR GT Falcon in original condition with 34,000 genuine miles on the clock and a restored 1970 GT Falcon that had travelled just 72,000 miles. The $400,000 and $600,000 paid for the respective cars are believed to be records for those models.

The 1967 GT is regarded as the best example of its type, having won three concourse events, and the 1970 model is also a multiple trophy winner. In recent years baby boomers (those born before 1960) have been pushing the prices of muscle cars to record highs. But now younger collectors are joining in the craze and many others are using their personal superannuation funds as a tool to buy muscle cars.

Among a collection of bikes and other rare cars Khouri, 42, and Dellidis, 34, now have a total of 16 immaculate GT Falcons, said to be the largest private collection in Australia.

More info here >

[4Vman]

Leo has an awesome collection including many Phase 3's..

[|||]

lol $400,000 for an XR

maybe ive been out of the scene too long but arent xrs & xts still the ugly step children of all gts?

more power to them tho. if i had $1m in pocket money to go blow i'd make some weird purchases too

[dave289]

Originally Posted by |||

lol $400,000 for an XR

maybe ive been out of the scene too long but arent xrs & xts still the ugly step children of all gts?

more power to them tho. if i had $1m in pocket money to go blow i'd make some weird purchases too

$400,000 for an xr does seem extreme in the least but still possible,can anybody else veryify this.

i though the xr gt was the daddy of gt's and anything after that could only be considered the step child

[PHATXR8]

Originally Posted by flappist

You really don't get it do you?

Yes, your oldies house is only worth 75k, what they paid for it, UNLESS they sell or mortgage it and then it is worth whatever it is sold or mortgaged for.

You are the one that doesn't get it! Just have a look at the rubbish that you are posting.^^^^^^^^^^

Perhaps you should tear up that Economics degree that you received from RedNeck University and get with the program!

[AusM]

I presume these are the cars, as auctioned at the recent Syd motorshow:






The 'XR' as SMH reported was listed as 'an exceptionally-original, Gold and 34,849 mile-young 1967 Falcon XR GT that was selected by FPV for the photo shoot of the new 40th Anniversary GT model in February this year ($100,000-$130,000)'

The 'very original Brambles Red 1970 Phase II' passed in at the auction (were expecting $350-400k), as did the 'fully-restored Monza Green 1971 Phase III)', which passed in at $620k.

Above info and pics are from Shannons press releases - as listed on the PF site. The figures don't quite add up, but it seems likely to be these cars eh?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by PHATXR8

You are the one that doesn't get it! Just have a look at the rubbish that you are posting.^^^^^^^^^^

Perhaps you should tear up that Economics degree that you received from RedNeck University and get with the program!

I have just read through your history to determine if you just don't like me or you actually ARE a troll.
Looks like I am just one of many you like to attack personally.

Such childish behavior always brings its own rewards.........

[dave289]

Originally Posted by flappist

I have just read through your history to determine if you just don't like me or you actually ARE a troll.
Looks like I am just one of many you like to attack personally.

Such childish behavior always brings its own rewards.........

you were the one who wanted to attack me with your line "you just dont get it do you"when you go on with absolute bullshi!t and dont know what you are talking about

.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by dave289

you were the one who wanted to attack me with your line "you just dont get it do you"when you go on with absolute bullshi!t and dont know what you are talking about

.

No, I attacked your arguement not your person and I suspect you STILL don't get it.

The point I have tried so hard to make is that nothing has actual monetry value unless it is sold, until that time all it has is potential value.
If a Phase 3 GTHO has a potential sale price of $1,000,000 and every single one of them went up for sale at the same time and HAD TO BE SOLD do you think they would all sell for that price?
On the other hand you spoke about someone who would not sell for $2,000,000. If it will never sold then it can not have monetry value. One day he will die and if he has never sold it then it real terms he made a $5,500 loss on it over the time he owned it didn't he.

This thread is about a perceived conspiracy theory on GT prices. X series GTs are now collectors items like fine art, antiques or whatever and follow the same rules.
Those who have them want to push the value up. Some will do almost anything to achieve this. While the economy is strong then they will attract high prices, when it is not they will drop.
Those who can afford it will not sell during the bad times while those who get into trouble will be forced to sell and they will sell for lower prices to those who became rich by not paying top price all the time. Whether those prices are publicised is another matter as the new owners will probabably not want to have there new toys potentially devalued.

You can believe me or not, I no longer care. I have just stated what has happend in recent history from first hand experience.

[dave289]

Originally Posted by flappist

No, I attacked your arguement not your person and I suspect you STILL don't get it.

The point I have tried so hard to make is that nothing has actual monetry value unless it is sold, until that time all it has is potential value.
If a Phase 3 GTHO has a potential sale price of $1,000,000 and every single one of them went up for sale at the same time and HAD TO BE SOLD do you think they would all sell for that price?
On the other hand you spoke about someone who would not sell for $2,000,000. If it will never sold then it can not have monetry value. One day he will die and if he has never sold it then it real terms he made a $5,500 loss on it over the time he owned it didn't he.

This thread is about a perceived conspiracy theory on GT prices. X series GTs are now collectors items like fine art, antiques or whatever and follow the same rules.
Those who have them want to push the value up. Some will do almost anything to achieve this. While the economy is strong then they will attract high prices, when it is not they will drop.
Those who can afford it will not sell during the bad times while those who get into trouble will be forced to sell and they will sell for lower prices to those who became rich by not paying top price all the time. Whether those prices are publicised is another matter as the new owners will probabably not want to have there new toys potentially devalued.

You can believe me or not, I no longer care. I have just stated what has happend in recent history from first hand experience.

i do understand where you are coming from and have argued your way before but as you can see the bottom line is something is worth what someone else is willing to pay weather it is sold or not.when some asks what you are worth are you going to give them your bank balance or add your house and car that you own to that to show what you are worth.i might only have ten dollars in the bank so would that make me worth $10 or worth $10 +my house+my car to establish my wealth.

i am sick of this argument and will not comment on it anymore.on another note you say owners would want the prices to go up and help push them up.if i was an owner i would like the idea of it going up in value but on the other hand the more it goes up the less likely you would want to drive it and the insurance would keep going up every year to a ridiculous amount.it seems a bit of a catch 22 there.

[fos408]

Its a funny thing that if you own one of these cars its great when it goes up in value ,I know I would be happy ,and if you dont we think they are over valued. I own a Fairmont that heavily modified and owes me a heap of $ that I will never see, but every time I drive it I know I will never sell it and its value to me keeps rising (the feel good factor) I know the people who do own them feel the same when thay drive theirs or even spend a couple of hour in the shed cleaning one or four and if at the end of the day they sell them to a investor for a chunk of $ good luck to them,I know they will miss it and somebody else will be doing just what we all do

[flappist]

Originally Posted by dave289

i do understand where you are coming from and have argued your way before but as you can see the bottom line is something is worth what someone else is willing to pay weather it is sold or not.when some asks what you are worth are you going to give them your bank balance or add your house and car that you own to that to show what you are worth.i might only have ten dollars in the bank so would that make me worth $10 or worth $10 +my house+my car to establish my wealth.

i am sick of this argument and will not comment on it anymore.on another note you say owners would want the prices to go up and help push them up.if i was an owner i would like the idea of it going up in value but on the other hand the more it goes up the less likely you would want to drive it and the insurance would keep going up every year to a ridiculous amount.it seems a bit of a catch 22 there.

Ok, yes you do get it. If you buy a GT as an investment this implies that you wish to sell it in the future hopefully for a profit.
If you buy one as a collecter you usually have no intention of selling it at all, it is YOURS and you love/want/need/adore it.
During the down turns it is normally, but not always, the invester, the one who bought it for profit not love, who barstardises the market.

My original description of the cycle was extremely exagerated to make the point more obvious.

The only advantage of a downturn that I can see is that it gives the true collector a better chance of aquiring their heart's desire.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by fos408

Its a funny thing that if you own one of these cars its great when it goes up in value ,I know I would be happy ,and if you dont we think they are over valued. I own a Fairmont that heavily modified and owes me a heap of $ that I will never see, but every time I drive it I know I will never sell it and its value to me keeps rising (the feel good factor) I know the people who do own them feel the same when thay drive theirs or even spend a couple of hour in the shed cleaning one or four and if at the end of the day they sell them to a investor for a chunk of $ good luck to them,I know they will miss it and somebody else will be doing just what we all do

it is nice when the value of our cars goes somewhere towards what we have spent on them. but since mine will hopefully never be for sale i would be happier if its perceived value was only around $100 dollars. that way there would be less chance of it being stolen. of course if it was involved in a crash, it's current perceived value would be better.

[dave289]

Originally Posted by flappist

Ok, yes you do get it. If you buy a GT as an investment this implies that you wish to sell it in the future hopefully for a profit.
If you buy one as a collecter you usually have no intention of selling it at all, it is YOURS and you love/want/need/adore it.
During the down turns it is normally, but not always, the invester, the one who bought it for profit not love, who barstardises the market.

My original description of the cycle was extremely exagerated to make the point more obvious.

The only advantage of a downturn that I can see is that it gives the true collector a better chance of aquiring their heart's desire.

i wonder how many people would buy a gt with the sole purpose as an investment as opposed to those that buy one for love.a guy up the road bought a phase three i think a number of years back and everyone told him he was crazy to be spending $150,000 on such a car .the same car would be worth $500,000+ these days.he bought this car out of love but as you see for him it is now an investment .has anybody out there bought there gt with the sole idea as an investment,let us know.

[plext]

Originally Posted by PHATXR8

You are the one that doesn't get it! Just have a look at the rubbish that you are posting.^^^^^^^^^^

Perhaps you should tear up that Economics degree that you received from RedNeck University and get with the program!

Thus we arrive at strike three.

Enjoy your time away.